rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

How Do Airlines Choose Terminals At JFK?

Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:57 pm

Mir and I were having our third late night chat of the week and this question came up. How expensive are gate leases at JFK and other airports? For example, China Airlines uses Terminal 3 at JFK. Why would they use Terminal 3 when they could easily use Terminal 1 or 4 late at night when their flight is, which are much nicer. I know they have an FFP agreement with Delta, but so do many carriers that don't use T3.

So basically, how competitive are Terminal operators at JFK? When a new airline starts service to JFK, as Air Tahiti is doing in the coming weeks, how different are the price rates between the terminals and why does Air Tahiti choose Terminal 4 while China Airlines chooses Terminal 3.

Any insight is appreciated.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
Luniew
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:16 am

RE: How Do Airlines Choose Terminals At JFK?

Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:05 pm

A lot of times its about the airline and the codeshare they are in. LOT used to be partner with AA and the used terminal 8. When they joined Star they went to T4.

Tom

[Edited 2005-06-28 07:06:19]
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: How Do Airlines Choose Terminals At JFK?

Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:18 pm

Facilities can be a huge operational issue for airlines.

Some obvious factors include code share partnerships, however most often it comes down to what facilities (ticket counters, gates, lounges) are available based on the proposed schedules, and what prices are offered by the handling companies involved. In addition each terminal depending if its owned by the airport authority or under lease to other private airlines/companies have their own terminal fee structure which also can play a significant role into the equation.

One of the keys in my opinion in today's industry is having facilities. Seemingly its easy to acquire aircraft and launch services, however without facilities to operate from airlines will find their best plans thwarted.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
SQ25J
Posts: 253
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 3:26 am

RE: How Do Airlines Choose Terminals At JFK?

Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:16 pm

Just like any business procuring services...you solicit bids/price request to interested parties....

At JFK Terminal 4 is open to all carriers, so naturally this is an option available to all, otherwise most other terminals will not entertain prospetive carriers. If a carrier is fortunate to have more than one option facilities+handling options will weigh in on price for services.

While so of you may disagree with me...I have been involved in terninal selection process for previous JFK operator-so I know a little about this.
 
tymnbalewne
Posts: 714
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:06 am

RE: How Do Airlines Choose Terminals At JFK?

Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:01 pm

T7 at JFK (the BA terminal) has been pretty aggressive in attracting airlines to it...so much so that it is at capacity during the evening peak.

Some airlines will insist that they do all the handling (i.e. pax and ramp) for any carrier in their terminal whereas others are happy just to lease ticket counter/office space.

Attracting airlines to a terminal is a very competitive business.

C.
Dewmanair...begins with Dew
 
amirs
Posts: 1184
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:20 am

RE: How Do Airlines Choose Terminals At JFK?

Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:05 pm

i dont think it has to do solely with Alliances, if so ... How do you explain BA with United, AF with LF at terminal 1, Swiss is in Terminal 4 not 1.
SAA is still in terminal 3
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: How Do Airlines Choose Terminals At JFK?

Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:15 pm

Quoting Amirs (Reply 5):
How do you explain BA with United, AF with LF at terminal 1, Swiss is in Terminal 4 not 1.
SAA is still in terminal 3

BA/UA is easy - they had a codeshare relationship (one of the very first) way back when (90's I think, poss. late 80's), and SA)">UA moved into the BA terminal at JFK.

AF/LH were part of the consortium of airlines that jointly developed JFK T1, and so use the joint facility. I'm pretty sure LH would prefer a joint Star Alliance facility with SA)">UA, and AF would like to join up with SA)">DL, but the SA)">DL terminals at JFK suck big time, and T1 is pretty nice, so I think AF and LH will battle to the death to see who keeps T1 and who goes elsewhere - may be they will both stay. It's a bit of a tie, because LH has SQ (Star partner) at T1, while AF has AZ and KE.

SA is in the SA)">DL terminal because of the codeshare with SA)">DL - before they were in T8/T9 with AA when that codeshare was on, and before that they were in the IAB. Who knows where they'll go, maybe if a dedicated Star facility opens they'll go there.

It would make sense probably for the new SA)">DL terminal (if it ever happens) to become the Skyteam facility, maybe T1 could become the Star facility, and the T7/8/9 could form the Oneworld facility. Depends if there's enough room at T1 for SA)">UA as well as LH/SQ/SA/LO/TP/RG/NH/TG et al.

I think LX/SR was always at the IAB, and has stayed on. I don't know if they ever moved to the SA)">DL terminal during the Qualiflyer debacle.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: How Do Airlines Choose Terminals At JFK?

Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:14 am

because LH has SQ (Star partner) at T1,

SQ as well as VS moved to Terminal 4 a while ago now.

while AF has AZ and KE

AeroMexico as well.

i dont think it has to do solely with Alliances, if so ... How do you explain BA with United, AF with LF at terminal 1, Swiss is in Terminal 4 not 1.
SAA is still in terminal 3


Hence the thread.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: How Do Airlines Choose Terminals At JFK?

Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:15 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 7):
SQ as well as VS moved to Terminal 4 a while ago now.

Oh. They were in T1 before though, right ?
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
mikephotos
Posts: 2887
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 12:52 am

RE: How Do Airlines Choose Terminals At JFK?

Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:45 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 6):
I think LX/SR was always at the IAB, and has stayed on. I don't know if they ever moved to the SA)">DL terminal during the Qualiflyer debacle.

IIRC they were at Delta/T3 for a bit. Way back when.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 8):
Oh. They were in T1 before though, right ? (re: SQ/VS)

Yes

Mike
 
Mir
Posts: 19093
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: How Do Airlines Choose Terminals At JFK?

Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:05 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 6):
because LH has SQ (Star partner) at T1,

SQ went to Terminal 4, as previously mentioned, but OS is still at T1, and TG goes there as well.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 6):
BA/UA is easy - they had a codeshare relationship (one of the very first) way back when (90's I think, poss. late 80's), and SA)">SA)">UA moved into the BA terminal at JFK.

SA)">UA also had some flights (the SFO and LAX routes) out of T6 (current JetBlue terminal). I guess JetBlue eventually pushed them out, though.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: How Do Airlines Choose Terminals At JFK?

Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:32 am

SQ went to Terminal 4, as previously mentioned, but OS is still at T1, and TG goes there as well.

TG goes to T4. This is what I'm wondering about. Specifically, why would they choose T4 over T1 or T7 or others.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: How Do Airlines Choose Terminals At JFK?

Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:53 am

Quoting Amirs (Reply 5):
Swiss is in Terminal 4 not 1

It is only a short time ago that Swiss was taken over by LH. I think when the Swiss network will be fully integrated into LH's schedule (at the end of this year) they will change to the terminal where LH is.
 
Mir
Posts: 19093
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: How Do Airlines Choose Terminals At JFK?

Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:11 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 11):
TG goes to T4.

According to http://www.panynj.com, they go to T1.

Shorter taxi time, perhaps? The only way T1 will be closer to the runway is if you land on 31L, and arguably 31R. 22L, 4R, and 13L and 13R are all closer to T4.

Also, T4 does have more shops than T1. That's probably why it's popular with the big-name airlines, who can afford to pay for space in it. Those at T1 probably signed long-term contracts while T4 was still the crappy old IAB. That's just my wild theory, but I can't think of a better explanation than that.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day

Who is online