United777
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JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:39 pm

JAL has ordered six Boeing 767-300ERS and includes three cargo version.

I can't wait to see the 767-300F in JAL's cargo aircraft livery.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050630/sfth026.html?.v=18
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:42 pm

So I guess that this is the UFO order for 6 767s that was already on Boeing's website?
Interesting to see that JAL has the need to get some more pax 763s such a short time before they will get their first 787s. But a good order nonethless Big grin .
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:42 pm

Seems Mr Mulally was right. Be interesting to see what other orders Boeing get to keep production running at the required level.

[Edit] No it's not the Unidentified order. 3 of those are for LAN, not sure of the other. This is a new order yet to be booked I believe

Regards

[Edited 2005-06-30 10:44:26]
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
PM
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:03 pm

I assume GE will get the engine order?
 
Carpethead
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:11 pm

According to JL's website, they mention acquiring only 3 aircraft. Perhaps the other three are options.
Three will come in Fiscal 2007 which means delivery from April 2007, which seems kind of far out to be ordering an aircraft that may not be in production by then. I hope this is some typo or is Boeing going to build the aircraft and spend time in storage?

In other JL news, it will increase HND-GMP flying from one daily to two daily in Nov. 2005 with a 747.
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:20 pm

PM

From the article:

General Electric CF6-80C2 high-bypass turbofan engines will power the new airplanes.

Also interesting that they mention deliveries through to 2008.

Regards
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
Xkorpyoh
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:15 pm

i thought that the 767 was dead. Why order 767 freighters and not 772F when they already operate 777s?
wouldn't it make more sense to order 3 772 and switch them around with the current 767s to put them where the market/demand is needed?
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:19 pm

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 6):
Why order 767 freighters and not 772F when they already operate 777s?

Most likely because the 772LR is too big for JAL's needs, as well as too close to their 744F/SFs.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:48 pm

With an EIS of 2008 for the 787, I am surprised they are getting 767 deliveries into 2008, unless those are for the frieghter version and not the pax.
They must have gotten a sweet deal on the 767.
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USAF336TFS
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:04 pm

Looks like the calls of an imminent death of the 767 were premature.
I think this will keep the 767 line alive long enough for the USAF KC-767A orders. Great news for everyone concerned.
 Big grin
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NYC777
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:09 pm

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 9):
Looks like the calls of an imminent death of the 767 were premature.
I think this will keep the 767 line alive long enough for the USAF KC-767A orders. Great news for everyone concerned.

Agreed, USAF already said that the tanker decision won't be made until 2008. If Boeing gets a few more 767 orders they can easily bridge the gap between the last commercial delivery and delivery's of the tanker to the USAF.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
N79969
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:31 pm

JAL is a mystery. I wonder where they plan to operate the passenger airplanes. They are cutting back on flying right now. JAL is also not in the best financial shape either. Maybe they will replace older 767s in their fleet. In any event, I think they received a good offer from Boeing because 1. they are such a good customer and 2. Boeing needs to keep the line warm.
 
AirRyan
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:57 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 10):
Agreed, USAF already said that the tanker decision won't be made until 2008. If

All the more off since Japan has a significant share in the 787 program.

The KC-767 wouldn't be so bad but when Boeing announced that they were going to sling P&W engines on it, something that the customer usually selects as did the only two customers for the KC-767 have in selecting GE engines, that really irked me because the USAF has a lot more GE engines than they do in P&W in their modern heavy lift community.

Something smells fishy to me, I never thought I would see another 767-300 order.
 
keesje
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:25 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 14):
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 10):
Agreed, USAF already said that the tanker decision won't be made until 2008. If

All the more off since Japan has a significant share in the 787 program.

Yes, and they may need some more aircraft, who knows, perhaps even tankers to meet new international requirements.

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
mauriceb
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:32 am

why do they order 767-300's, when they are replacing them soon? i can say that they need the planes but in the future lots of 767's will come available at the Second-hand market, there are actually already some scrapped...


but think about the airlines dropping them or at least some, like UAL, Vietnam, Eva, KLM (although they already found a new home after phase out), air china (lots from them since A330's will arive) , and in the not so far future there will be way more available...

[Edited 2005-06-30 17:33:42]
 
keesje
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:43 am

At this moment worldwide 72 B767s are parked.

Around 400 of 900 B767s flying around are lease aircraft.

Apart from JAL Boeing has a backlog of 13 767's. 8 were build in 2004.

Deliveries to JAL will begin in 2007 and run through early 2008.

JAL will receive 787's from 2008 replacing 767's.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
FCKC
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:16 am

No surprise here!!!!!!!!!The A300-600F is a better freighter , as it can carry more cargo , and thus is more economical as a regional freighter as JAL will use their new planes in this way.So no need of range.
Fleet communality with their 767s PAX..hum..........
Even if they plan to phase out their A300-600s PAX , it's not for today , but for the day after tomorrow , thus A300-600Fs would have been a better choice for them...........but JAL will stay JAL , and Airbus has not still reaches the point where they will be able to sell planes to the Japanese carrier.
They have to be patient , as Asian people know.
 
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:17 am

Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
mauriceb
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:21 am

No surprise here!!!!!!!!!The A300-600F is a better freighter , as it can carry more cargo , and thus is more economical as a regional freighter as JAL will use their new planes in this way.So no need of range.
Fleet communality with their 767s PAX..hum..........
Even if they plan to phase out their A300-600s PAX , it's not for today , but for the day after tomorrow , thus A300-600Fs would have been a better choice for them...........but JAL will stay JAL , and Airbus has not still reaches the point where they will be able to sell planes to the Japanese carrier.


why were they interrested in the A380 then  Wink

also the 767 will be used on Routes wich the A300 can't make without a stop-over
 
FCKC
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:29 am

Maurice B

Which routes the A300-600F can't reach , JAL would like to operate ?
 
DAYflyer
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:42 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 19):
At this moment worldwide 72 B767s are parked.

Around 400 of 900 B767s flying around are lease aircraft.

Apart from JAL Boeing has a backlog of 13 767's. 8 were build in 2004.

Deliveries to JAL will begin in 2007 and run through early 2008.

JAL will receive 787's from 2008 replacing 767's

Which is precisely why the orders are also a mystery to me too. Normally we did not see eye-to-eye, but in this case I think we do.
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acvitale
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:35 am

How many of the 72 parked 767's are 200 series and how many are 300 series.

I would love to find some parked 300ERs any thoughts if they exist?

Did not think so.
 
whitehatter
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:46 am

Quoting FCKC (Reply 23):

Which routes the A300-600F can't reach , JAL would like to operate ?

Long range, speciality work that JAL handles quite a lot of.

There is a massive trade at premium prices in long distance carriage for items which are either valuable (electronics for instance) or alive (horses) that are normally flown by aircraft such as the MD-11 or 747F. Japan imports and exports huge amounts of horses in particular, and the 763F is potentially a better fit than a larger MD-11 for that job. The A306F would need to make additional stops and that means time lost or stress for the animals, some of which are worth millions.

It's some of the work that they do which I have noticed anyway. The other is palletised electronics for just-in-time operations. The LD3 isn't as much of an issue when the freight is palletised or loaded door-to-door in speciality containers. Neither example is particularly dense either meaning the lift of the 772F is not necessary.
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FCKC
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:01 am

Whitehatter

JAL has bought these 767Fs , ONLY for REGIONAL routes (primarily for China and South East Asia , no way to put these planes on routes to Europe or USA), to avoid making stops.Where a 747F is used for two cities as it is too big for only one , they prefer to put two medium freighters , one on each city.
In that case A300-600F is more economical.No way to speak of range here.
 
ebj1248650
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:32 am

It is very surprising to see Japan Airlines, which is a very good airline, ordering the 767 when the 787 isn't that far down the pike. Might it be a favor to Boeing, based on the desire to maintain a long standing good relationship? That's possible, a symbol of support for the company that been the primary provider of the airline's airplanes. Then too, Japan Airlines just might feel the need for a few more 767's even if they do come into service just prior to the arrival of the 787.

With regard to the 767s now in storage in various parts of the world, the photos I've seen have shown -200 models only.
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Carpethead
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:11 am

The 787 isn't offered as a freighter yet.

JAL (Int'l) for some reason doesn't like Airbus's products.
Therefore the competition was 763F vs. AB6F. Guess who won.
Delivery period is too far out and is still odd, but that's JL.
For example, NH only needed something around one year to covert its order for 763 pax to freighter version.
JL nor NH nor any airline needs Japanese government approval.
 
N270FT
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:08 am

Will the PAX 763's be fitted with the interior and flight deck that was origianally designed for the 767-400ER, like CO's 762's.

A.W.
 
TokyoNarita
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:14 am

The cargo demand within Asia is very high especially between Japan and Korea/China. ANA/NCA has been running B763F already from NRT to these countries and JAL wants to tap into the market immediately. Therefore they chose a type that has proven reliability, available, easy to support and maintain for JAL...B763F. JAL also picked B763F because it would be able to use the short runway in/out of NRT...Anything bigger would run into slot issues in NRT...JAS's A300-600R conversion wouldn't be an option because that would go against their fleet simplification plan for the next 10 years. JAL's current fleet of B767s is busy flying around Asia. The older ones may be considered for cargo conversion but since they are mostly operated domestically they probably have two many cycles to make it work.

Notice that both KIX and the new NGO airports are 24 hours. How about running these medium size cargo flights between NRT (not 24 hours)/NGO/KIX to Seoul/Hong Kong/Shanghai/Taipei where B747F would be a bit of over capacity? I would also bet JAL will use these new B763F in domestic routes too....HND has recently extended their hours of operation during late evening and early morning hours...freeing up more slots for international charters and cargo operations. You can easily run these things between Naha, Fukuoka, Saporro to Tokyo, Osaka or Nagoya at night. In fact, both JAL and ANA have ran a few cargo operations in the past with their passenger B777s in the middle of the night between Naha and HND (empty in the cabin but LOADS of cargo in the bottom.

TokyoNarita

[Edited 2005-07-01 03:22:27]

[Edited 2005-07-01 03:37:24]
 
MD-90
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:47 am

Now why would Japan be exporting a lot of horses?
 
PolAir
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:33 am

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 28):


Because they have some of the best breeders in the world maybe...
 
Fyano773
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:51 pm

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 6):
Why order 767 freighters and not 772F when they already operate 777s?

Maybe because 772LRF will be available till 2009 (2008 4Q) and JL needs them ASAP...

Fyano
 
ha763
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RE: JAL Boeing Order - 6 767-300's

Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:42 pm

Pallet space is more important for JAL Cargo than container space. Most of JAL Cargo's cargo uses M1 pallets and very few M1 containers for main deck loading.

The 763F is also available with the large cargo door for both lower cargo holds. This allows the loading of 7 pallets (front-4, rear-3). BTW, regarding LD3s and the 767, JAL mainly loads their international 767 flights with only LD3s. Rarely do they use LD2s outside of Japan and only to a few select Asian destinations.

Quoting FCKC (Reply 16):
The A300-600F is a better freighter , as it can carry more cargo

Incorrect. The 767 can carry more cargo in weight, volume, and main deck pallet positions.

Max payload
763F-127,330lbs, A306F-121,290lbs

Main deck positions
763F-17 single row, 24 side-by-side, A306F-15 single row, 21 side-by-side

Total volume
763F-15,914cu.ft, A306F-14,486cu.ft

Quoting N270ft (Reply 26):
Will the PAX 763's be fitted with the interior and flight deck that was origianally designed for the 767-400ER, like CO's 762's.

Yes. All 767s ordered after 2000 (and many of those delivered as well) come with the Boeing Signature Interior.