keesje
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Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:46 pm

Boeing decides in principle to build 747 Advanced aircraft
- report 07.01.2005, 03:30 AM

FRANKFURT (AFX) - Boeing Corp's executive board on Monday decided in principle to go ahead with the construction of its 747 Advanced jumbojet as a rival to Airbus Industrie's A380 superjumbo, German daily Financial Times Deutschland reported, citing no sources.

The newspaper said Boeing will start building the planes as soon as two renowned clients have signed up for the aircraft.

According to the newspaper, Boeing CEO James McNerney said during a telephone conference yesterday that Airbus will go ahead with its 747 Advanced plans if there is sufficient customer demand, although he did not provide any details.



http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/afx/2005/07/01/afx2120084.html

[Edited 2005-07-01 09:51:40]
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Planesmart
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:00 pm

More PR spin. If prospective customers, who show no inclination at present to commit, stop dragging their feet, we might launch.

Lets see how long this saga can be drawn out.
 
MAS747
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:04 pm

Whats that 11.7 feet going to add to the plane though? if it is supposed to be a direct competitor to the A380, how can they fit enough pax in that extra 11.7 feet?
 
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:10 pm

Quoting MAS747 (Reply 2):
if it is supposed to be a direct competitor to the A380

But it's not! It's looking to fill a perceived gap between the 773ER and A380.
 
whitehatter
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:13 pm

Quoting MAS747 (Reply 2):
Whats that 11.7 feet going to add to the plane though? if it is supposed to be a direct competitor to the A380, how can they fit enough pax in that extra 11.7 feet?

It is not an exact competitor.

Boeing has done their research and they feel that an aircraft positioned just below the A380 in capacity is a good market entry point for their 747X.

Having to duplicate the other manufacturer's product line seat-for-seat is something which only seems to have its fans on this board. The two manufacturers have done their research and are marketing products which are only broadly similar, hence having their own selling points on capacity and engineering. There is little point having two identical airframes duking it out for the same limited market.

Airbus has the numbers on capacity, Boeing has the advantage on freight and compatability with existing 747 and proposed 787 operators.
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DCrawley
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:15 pm

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
According to the newspaper, Boeing CEO James McNerney said during a telephone conference yesterday that Airbus will go ahead with its 747 Advanced plans if there is sufficient customer demand, although he did not provide any details.

Shouldn't it be "...Boeing will go ahead with its 747 Advanced plans.." instead of Airbus?  Wink An Airbus 747 Advanced.. now THERE'S a concept! lol

Just a quick bit,

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ha763
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:16 pm

The 747ADV, 450 pax, will seat 100 less pax than the A380-800, 555 pax. According to information from each manufacturer.

[Edited 2005-07-01 10:18:22]
 
flyAUA
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:17 pm

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
as a rival to Airbus Industrie's A380 superjumbo

Whatever, they will have to do more than that to create a "rival" to the superjumbo! All they've got now is a great design for a successor to the 747-400. Definately no rival!

Thanks for the article Keesje. I am just curious as to why this was stated by the papers before Boeing itself goes public with it. For Boeings sake, I hope they find those 2 customers (I am sure they will find them as well), but still can't help the fact that this *is* PR crap. Very similar to when Leahy goes boasting and showing off numbers.

Quoting PlaneSmart (Reply 1):
If prospective customers, who show no inclination at present to commit, stop dragging their feet, we might launch.

Before I read your post, that thought also crossed my mind.

Quoting DCrawley (Reply 5):
houldn't it be "...Boeing will go ahead with its 747 Advanced plans.." instead of Airbus? An Airbus 747 Advanced.. now THERE'S a concept! lol

LOL, well spotted  bigthumbsup 

[Edited 2005-07-01 10:20:36]
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:19 pm

Wouldn't it have been more wise to just keep the B744Adv as the same size as the current B747s and just extend the upper deck. 11.7 feet more more will give the B744Adv the same problems that the A346 had when it entered service
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dutchjet
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:40 pm

Of course, the key question is which two airlines will be the launch customers for the 747Advanced? It could be just about any two major airlines that now fly the 744 (including those that have already ordered the A380 as the 744Advanced has less capacity than the A380).

BA, CX, SQ, LH and QF are all candidates to launch the type, in my opinion.....each are very big 744 operators, all will continue to grow and expand in the future, and all fly lots of routes with the 744 that are not yet ready to be upgraded to an A380 nor are suitable for a downgrade to a 773/A346. I realize that some of these airlines have issued public relations type press releases claiming little interest in the 747Advanced (ie SQ), but I am not convinced.....especially with SQ, if SQ can get the right airplane, with the right operating economics, at the right price, it will find a place for the 744Advanced in its fleet.

The "two-band" strech is very practical, adding space to both the premium class cabins (on two levels) where more and more space is needed for improved F and J class products and a second band in the Y class area of the aircraft - and of course more freight capacity. It will be interesting to see the final peformance numbers of the 744Advanced, especially as they compare to the 744 and A380.

But, as many of us has said before, time is becoming critical....if Boeing does not launch the 747Advanced soon, the project will die, Boeing needs enough time to develop the aircraft while keeping the existing 744 prouction line open, plus airlines (especially leading carriers such as the ones mentioned as potential launch customers) need to make fleet planning decisions concerning what will types will replace their 744 fleets - the oldest of which is already 15+ years old.
 
keesje
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:54 pm

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 6):
The 747ADV, 450 pax, will seat 100 less pax than the A380-800, 555 pax. According to information from each manufacturer.

Carriers like BA, UA and CX fit 280-350 passenger in their 747-400's.

- 4-5 extra M rows,
- significant lower fuel costs,
- a cabin optimized for new IFE & increased handluggage,
- lower maintenance cost
- large commonality with existing fleet & infrastructure

sounds like a viable offering to Boeing 747 operators

Like the B777/A332 came out as winning long haul couple for many operators, so can the 744/A380 IMO.

Will a combi version come out?
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dutchjet
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:02 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 10):

sounds like a viable offering to Boeing 747 operators

Like the B777/A332 came out as winning long haul couple for many operators, so can the 744/A380 IMO.

Will a combi version come out?

1. I agree.

2. A 744Advanced/A380 combo could work for some carriers, those that are very oriented to longhaul, high capacity flying. The problem is the number of fleet types, only the biggest airlines can justify having an aircraft in the 773/A346 class, plus the 744Advanced, and the A380. This is an interesting issue.

3. As for the combi - I guess it all depends on KLM!
 
na
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:19 pm

Ok, the chef has done the cooking, now where are the paying guests?

Good news. Every step towards a new 747 is welcome. And this was a major one. Still its odd not a single airline has raised its finger clearly to be seen.
 
F4N
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:25 pm

To all:

The CEO of Cargolux has stated in the past that he will order the 747A only IF
Boeing will formally offer it. My suspicion is that Boeing's tentative approach will nontheless move forward; I doubt they would allow their new CEO to make this statement and put his credibility on the line w/o something already in the bag.

regards,

F4N
 
columba
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:32 pm

German news magazine "Der Spiegel" wrote that the main candidates in Europe for the new 747 would be LH and Cargolux.

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,363101,00.html
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:37 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 10):
Will a combi version come out?

I understood that the FAA no longer looked kindly on combis.
 
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:45 pm

How many would they order?
 
flyAUA
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:58 pm

Quoting Richardw (Reply 16):
How many would they order?

Cargolux ordered one from Boeing, and will buy the other one off Singapore Airlines.
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halls120
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:09 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 8):
Wouldn't it have been more wise to just keep the B744Adv as the same size as the current B747s and just extend the upper deck. 11.7 feet more more will give the B744Adv the same problems that the A346 had when it entered service

Extending only the upper deck won't give the aircraft increased cargo capacity.
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na
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:12 pm

Cargolux ordered a 747 Adv. freighter, or is it rather another 744F?
 
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:13 pm

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
According to the newspaper, Boeing CEO James McNerney said during a telephone conference yesterday that Airbus will go ahead with its 747 Advanced plans if there is sufficient customer demand, although he did not provide any details.

I know Boeing's been doing a lot of outsourcing, so it's good to see Airbus do the smart thing and get on board for the 747 Advanced. So, does this mean Boeing is subsidized too?  Smile
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:56 pm

Quoting Richardw (Reply 16):
Cargolux ordered one from Boeing, and will buy the other one off Singapore Airlines.



Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 17):
Cargolux ordered one from Boeing, and will buy the other one off Singapore Airlines.



Quoting NA (Reply 19):
Cargolux ordered a 747 Adv. freighter, or is it rather another 744F?

NA: I believe FlyAUA is being facetious.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:00 pm

>> Will a combi version come out?

You know the answer to that... the probabilty of a new combi being certified is virtually zero.

>> Wouldn't it have been more wise to just keep the B744Adv as the same size as the current B747s and just extend the upper deck.

No, in fact, studies from previous 747 derrivitives show that the airplane is most structurally efficent with a ~11 ft stretch. Extending the upper deck alone would disrupt balance; the current stretch is both ahead and behind the wing.

>> For Boeings sake, I hope they find those 2 customers (I am sure they will find them as well), but still can't help the fact that this *is* PR crap. Very similar to when Leahy goes boasting and showing off numbers.

You're being more short-sighted than usual if you can't see that this is another step closer to an Adv launch. It is at a high probability for a go at this point...

>> If prospective customers, who show no inclination at present to commit, stop dragging their feet, we might launch

And what on Earth gave you that idea? Virtually all potential launch customers have said their decisions would be made toward the end of -05 and Boeing said their decision to formally offer the airplane wouldn't be made until mid-year. A subtle hint to this reality is confirmed by:

"Right now we have a window of opportunity. Our customer airlines want us to make a decision this year. And some airlines have told us that they also need to make a decision this year. So, the window requires we both come together at the same time.

But I think it's safe to say we're feeling positive about it. We've definitely had strong interest. The key thing now is timing.
- Randy Bassler, June 23, 2005

Perhaps you need to be more patient, because I don't think Boeing (nor customers) have ever planned to launch the Adv in the first half of 2005.

>> Before I read your post, that thought also crossed my mind.

Oh, shut up.  Yeah sure
 
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:49 pm

This is one small but important step toward launch. The public announcement is not PR spin but rather gives assurance to airlines that if two of them sign up for the B747Adv then they can count on a launch. Nothing more, nothing less. Airlines don't want to spend money assembling an order unless they are confident it will be filled, hence the need for assurance -- especially given Boeing's history of not launching proposed B747-400 follow-ons.

There will be no new combis because the FAA have decided that the bulkheads used to separate the passenger and cargo areas are inadequate. Bulkheads that could be certified would be too heavy.
 
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:02 am

If the 747 Adv had such great prospects, why the waiting game? Enough is enough, launch it already.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:08 am

>> If the 747 Adv had such great prospects, why the waiting game?

Because it's that straightforward and everything? Heck Airbus has "orders" for the A350 and they havn't launched the product.

Again, if you notice, the Adv is proceeding by schedule. Boeing extends a thousand apologies if that doesn't coincide with your schedule. When will be ordering your 747-Adv DAYflyer?  Wink
 
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:19 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 24):
If the 747 Adv had such great prospects, why the waiting game? Enough is enough, launch it already.

Have a couple billion you want to spend without proper evaluation.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 25):
When will be ordering your 747-Adv DAYflyer?

He expects tomorrow.
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:23 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 24):
If the 747 Adv had such great prospects, why the waiting game? Enough is enough, launch it already.

You don't understand business very well? This is called creating a buzz, unofficially getting word to potential customers to look at the airplane, making customers that want the airplane to sign a contract first before another airline does, informs the stockholders that another new project is in the pipeline, etc.

Just think of a movie, you see a movie trailer a year before the movie is released......
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flyAUA
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:24 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 22):
You're being more short-sighted than usual if you can't see that this is another step closer to an Adv launch. It is at a high probability for a go at this point...

I never said we're not getting closer to a launch. You put those words in my mouth. I said that it's the same "announcement" we've been getting the whole time. "bla bla bla is interested", if "x + y sign, we'll go ahead", "we are listening to the airlines"... and so on and so forth. I am sure it will be launched, but perhaps you missed my posts where I said such things because you'd rather try and make me look short-sighted.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 22):
Oh, shut up.

First of all: I am was not talking to you and didn't ask for your opinion. That post was for somebody else.

Second of all: Rule #1... Please respect each other and choose your words wisely. Each user has their own point of view, and these views must be respected.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 21):
I believe FlyAUA is being facetious.

Actually I was being serious... the Cargolux pilot himself will know more than both me or you do regarding their fleet plans.
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alphafloor
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:37 am

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
ahead with the construction of its 747 Advanced jumbojet as a rival to Airbus Industrie's A380 superjumbo

Basically I really don't undertand Boeing's vision for the future of aviation. They said that "point to point" was the future with the B787 and not "Hub to hub" of airbus's vision. Now they want to launch the B744adv program which is basically targeting more or less the same market as the A380... I don't get it.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a new 747 but it seems that Boeing contradict themselves and if they actually launch this program they will confirm Airbus vision and strategy in a certain way.

Alphafloor
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flyAUA
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:48 am

Quoting Alphafloor (Reply 29):
Basically I really don't undertand Boeing's vision for the future of aviation. They said that "point to point" was the future with the B787 and not "Hub to hub" of airbus's vision. Now they want to launch the B744adv program which is basically targeting more or less the same market as the A380... I don't get it.

Them stating the future is in point-to-point travel was only a publicity stunt. The future will see both point-to-point and hub-and-spoke models growing, and not just one of these. The B747adv - when it gets built and delivered - will like you mentioned target the same market as the A380, but note that it plans to do this with less seating in order to fill the gap now left between the B744 and A388.
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SE210Caravelle
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:52 am

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 6):
The 747ADV, 450 pax, will seat 100 less pax than the A380-800, 555 pax. According to information from each manufacturer.

Sounds perfect really. This appeals much more to me then 555 seats and seems a little more operable for the airlines.

Quoting Alphafloor (Reply 29):

They said that "point to point" was the future with the B787 and not "Hub to hub" of airbus's vision. Now they want to launch the B744adv program which is basically targeting more or less the same market as the A380...

But there is a need for more capacity on some routes and Boeing is meeting that need. Look at BA and the routes they use their 747's on, not just hub to hub.

Boeing sees a need to fill a hole and offer some competition and after the success they have had over the generations I can only trust that they will continue to be successful. I strongly agree with the move, if they do launch the 747Adv.

Thanks.
 
N60659
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:53 am

Quoting Alphafloor (Reply 29):
Basically I really don't undertand Boeing's vision for the future of aviation. They said that "point to point" was the future with the B787 and not "Hub to hub" of airbus's vision. Now they want to launch the B744adv program which is basically targeting more or less the same market as the A380... I don't get it.

It is not a contradiction as you state - Boeing's position has always been that a market exists for hub-to-hub, albeit a small one. Here is something I posted on another thread not long ago:

The question is not whether a market exists - it is how large is it?
Boeing's CMO has the projected number of large aircraft (400 seats and up as well as large freighters) to be around 900 units (590 new passenger and 310 new freighters) through 2024. Airbus', on the other hand, projects the need for 1650 units (passenger and cargo) of this class for the same time period. From Boeing's perspective, if they were to capture half the market share (about 450 units) for a relatively low project cost (as the 747Adv is), it would be better for the bottom line than developing a brand new design.


Also, the 747Adv does not directly compete with the A380. It falls between the A346/773ER(350 seat range) and the A388 (550 seat range) at around 450 seats.

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DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:55 am

>> Second of all: Rule #1... Please respect each other and choose your words wisely. Each user has their own point of view, and these views must be respected.

You have a history of being pompus and making assertions you can't possibly back-up, and I'll call you on it.

"Ooooh I had the same thought." Whatever...  Yeah sure

>> They said that "point to point" was the future with the B787 and not "Hub to hub" of airbus's vision. Now they want to launch the B744adv program which is basically targeting more or less the same market as the A380... I don't get it.

First, Boeing calls it "hub-point." No one will be flying OKC-XGN anytime soon.

Second, It really requires a more in-depth look at Airbus and Boeing's respective market outlook. You could ask the same question, why is Airbus building the A350 if large airplanes are their philosophy?

I will use approximations (the exact numbers are available online), but neither manufacture denies there is a market for each-others philosophy. For example, let's say these numbers were the market outlooks:

Airbus
200-300 seat medium aircraft (787/A350) - 1,500 aircraft over 20 years
550+ seat very large aircraft (A380) - 1,000 aircraft over 20 years

Boeing
200-300 seat medium aircraft (787/A350) - 3,000 aircraft over 20 years
400-500 seat large aircraft (Adv) - 500 aircraft over 20 years
550+ seat very large aircraft (A380) - 500 aircraft over 20 years

As you can imgaine, it would be nieve to just abandon one of these niches because ones feels it isn't the biggest market. In Boeing's case, they not only predict half the number of A380 that Airbus does, but they predict a substantial market for aircraft below the A380.

The Adv has a real advantage here: it doesn't require the investment of an all-new product and it could potentially offer A380 economics in a 450-seat package. Boeing doesn't have a "direct" A380 competitor, but they've gone a long way to establishing large airplane parity if their market outlook proves to be closer to reality.
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:01 am

Quoting Alphafloor (Reply 29):
Basically I really don't undertand Boeing's vision for the future of aviation. They said that "point to point" was the future with the B787 and not "Hub to hub" of airbus's vision. Now they want to launch the B744adv program which is basically targeting more or less the same market as the A380... I don't get it.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a new 747 but it seems that Boeing contradict themselves and if they actually launch this program they will confirm Airbus vision and strategy in a certain way.

Alphafloor

Not really, Boeing has always said that there is a market for the VLJ (Very Large Jet) market, just not a big one. Such flights such as JFK-LHR, or LHR-NRT, are both a point to point, & a hub-to-hub, depending on the airline.
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:12 am

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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:13 am

"Them stating the future is in point-to-point travel was only a publicity stunt."

Actually there is a better chance of the A380 being the most elaborate and expensive publicity stunt in history at $15 billion dollars which will buy Europe the title of world's largest airliner. That is what the A380 is truly all about. If it were not, I am sure the Blair, Chirac, Schroeder, Berlusconi, etc would have better things to do than to show up to a product launch.

Boeing has said from the beginning that the 747 had a future. While there is market for 500-seat airplanes, Boeing has stated that is probably not large enough for one manufacturer to make a profit and definitely out of the question for two makers.

There is nothing inconsistent with a 747Adv and Boeing's long-stated views on the future of the marketplace.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:15 am

Quoting Alphafloor (Reply 29):
Basically I really don't undertand Boeing's vision for the future of aviation. They said that "point to point" was the future with the B787 and not "Hub to hub" of airbus's vision. Now they want to launch the B744adv program which is basically targeting more or less the same market as the A380... I don't get it.

While point-to-point is the future, there is still demand for VLA's. Beoing never denied it, they disagreed on the size of the market. It's not the "same" market either. The capacities are vastly different

Quoting FlyAUA (Reply 30):
Them stating the future is in point-to-point travel was only a publicity stunt. The future will see both point-to-point and hub-and-spoke models growing, and not just one of these.

Yes, but the question remains, which market is larger? Point-to-point for certain.
 
freedom4all
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:46 am

Blah....Blah...Blah....how many times do we need to hear...they "might" launch it...."want to" launch it...."are close" to launching it. No more posts on the 747-ADV until Boeing says, YES, ITS HERE NOW..WE ARE!!! LAUNCHING IT. Don't get me wrong I want to see this plane more then anyone, but all Boeing has done is talk, talk, and more talk. for a long time now.....get it off the table already!
long live the 747!
 
N60659
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:51 am

Quoting Freedom4all (Reply 38):
Blah....Blah...Blah....how many times do we need to hear...they "might" launch it...."want to" launch it...."are close" to launching it. No more posts on the 747-ADV until Boeing says, YES, ITS HERE NOW..WE ARE!!! LAUNCHING IT.

You do have the option of ignoring these so-called "BLAH BLAH BLAH" 747Adv posts don't you?

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DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:55 am

>> Blah....Blah...Blah....how many times do we need to hear...they "might" launch it...."want to" launch it...."are close" to launching it

Did you read anything above?

Boeing is working on Boeing's timeline and their customer's timeline. Not your's. Not mine. Do you expect them to just keep the media and their investors in the dark in the mean time?
 
art
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:59 am

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Quoting MAS747 (Reply 2):
if it is supposed to be a direct competitor to the A380

But it's not! It's looking to fill a perceived gap between the 773ER and A380.

Precisely.

For myself, I would welcome any aircraft that allows 400 to 550 pax to be moved from A to B more efficiently than would be the case in the absence of a 450 seat aircraft.

Edited for spelling

[Edited 2005-07-01 19:26:34]
 
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glideslope
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:00 am

Quoting N79969 (Reply 36):
Actually there is a better chance of the A380 being the most elaborate and expensive publicity stunt in history at $15 billion dollars which will buy Europe the title of world's largest airliner. That is what the A380 is truly all about. If it were not, I am sure the Blair, Chirac, Schroeder, Berlusconi, etc would have better things to do than to show up to a product launch.

Thank you. It's nice to see reality based comments in here from time to time.  Smile
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tockeyhockey
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:21 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 8):
Wouldn't it have been more wise to just keep the B744Adv as the same size as the current B747s and just extend the upper deck. 11.7 feet more more will give the B744Adv the same problems that the A346 had when it entered service

the hump is extended as far as it can go. one of the reasons that the 747 is the fastest pax jet in the skies is because of the shape of the hump and how it helps the fuselage shape conform to the best possible fit for the area rule.

airliners are most efficient when they have a similar surface area from the nose to the tail. points at which there are great fluctuations in the surface area of the fuselage are points where drag is heavy. having the hump, and therefore, extra surface area at the nose of the fuselage, allows the 747's nose to have about as much surface area as the fuselage section where the wings are attached, which, because of the wings, is an area of the fuselage that has more surface area -- more aluminum touching the air.
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:51 am

yawnnn... yawn 

wake me when they announce it...so much for PR ...


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aseem
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:04 am

don't know how many of you noticed, that B747ADV seems to have "raked wingtips" like B773/2LR.
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Ken777
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:05 am

This is just another step towards getting the 747ADV off the ground. I have no doubts that it will fly and believe that there is a lot of work going on with a few airlines to ensure everyone is happy with the final version.

I also have a feeling that Boeing is working on package deals that would include, at a minimum, the 787. I can wait until late 05 for a launch as long as the orders come in and the plane flies.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:06 am

>> wake me when they announce it...so much for PR ...

Suit yourself...

>> don't know how many of you noticed, that B747ADV seems to have "raked wingtips" like B773/2LR.

The new wingtips have recieved much attention already, but props for a discerning eye...
 
Thunderbird1
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:28 am

Seems like it would be better if there wasn't a full 100 pass gap between the Adv and the A380. For example, a 480 seater sounds better than a 450, in my opinion.

Let's hope McNerney has the guts to go forward with this.
 
PPVRA
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RE: Boeing Decides In Principle To Build 747 ADV

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:31 am

So, will the 747ADV only be offered in the "stretch" version or also the current size version?

PPVRA
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