Bicoastal
Topic Author
Posts: 2446
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 5:56 am

United To Exit Bankruptcy

Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:33 pm

Today, United began the process for exiting bankruptcy protection by proposing a timeline that keeps the Company on track to emerge from Chapter 11 this fall. Under the proposed schedule, United intends to file its Plan of Reorganization and Disclosure Statement with the Bankruptcy Court on or about August 1, 2005. The schedule was outlined on Friday in a filing with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court overseeing United's Chapter 11 proceedings. United believes this timeline for exit is realistically achievable.

The company has requested that the Court schedule a hearing to approve the Disclosure Statement for early September 2005, and that the Court fix August 29, 2005 as the record date for determining those entitled to receive ballots and materials necessary for voting on the Plan of Reorganization, specified in the Bankruptcy Code.

[Edited 2005-07-01 16:40:54]

[Edited 2005-07-01 16:41:24]
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DrupyUSE
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2001 7:22 pm

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:37 pm

This is interesting considering the rumors of an impending FA strike.
 
slider
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Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:44 pm

I read this and the first thing I immediately thought of is that this is all PR window dressing...

They need to start moving in SOME direction to get out of bankruptcy or else they will have a competitive bid. That's what Tilton wants to avoid, so he's grandstanding.

They're no closer now than they were last year, and I doubt they'll be out by the fall as is predicted.
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:05 am

I have serious reservations about them being able to pull this off before the end of this year. There are serious labor/management issues, fuel is still rising, and they are still losing money. How do you effectively exit bankruptcy when you are still losing money?
One Nation Under God
 
DCrawley
Posts: 328
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:18 am

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:44 am

Ah, "United To Exit Bankrupcy". How I have longed to hear those words. Wait, yes.. I swear I've heard them several times before from the same management team.  Wink In all honesty, I hope they survive. Yet IMHO, they have gotten enough extensions. It would be great to see them with a viable business plan, but at this point, I think they still have a ways to go..

Best of luck to UA employee's!

-D.K. Crawley
"Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken clouds, but they'll try to have them fixed before we arrive."
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:54 am

United exits bankruptcy as "planned" -- without requesting and being given yet another extension? About as likely as the FAs walking the walk rather than merely talking the talk about carrying out their rumored/threatened strike.
 
A350
Posts: 1011
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:40 am

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:35 am

So they are ready to order 20 A380s at christmas ?  banghead 

A350
 
IFly4UAL
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 8:30 am

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:38 am

United To Exit Bankruptcy--

Again?  zzz 
BGR--Vacation Spot for All the Flying Crazies
 
PADSpot
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:31 pm

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:41 am

Quoting A350 (Reply 6):
So they are ready to order 20 A380s at christmas ? banghead

... together with a giant 150-airplane order for the A350! You still believe in Santa Claus, don't you? He's dead and never brought airplanes as presents ... spin  wave 

Hohoho!

Santa Jan  santahat 
 
Kahala777
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:28 am

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:02 am

Quoting IFly4UAL (Reply 7):
United To Exit Bankruptcy--

Again?

When have they previously been in bankruptcy? Backup for this statement would do womders!


Kahala777
 
Kahala777
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 7:28 am

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:03 am

Quoting IFly4UAL (Reply 7):
United To Exit Bankruptcy--

Again?

When have they previously been in bankruptcy? Backup for this statement would do wonders!


Kahala777
 
A350
Posts: 1011
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:40 am

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:18 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 8):
You still believe in Santa Claus, don't you? He's dead and never brought airplanes as presents ...

Really  confused  Santa Claus really doesn't exist  confused  confused  He never brought planes as presents  confused  confused  confused 

Under that circumstances I don't believe in the big A380 order anymore  biggrin 

A350
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:31 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 10):
When have they previously been in bankruptcy?

They haven't. But I think the poster, and half of the responders to this thread mean that we've heard it all before about United exiting and presenting their business plan. Still has yet to happen. I personally doubt it ever will.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
levg79
Posts: 918
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2003 10:59 am

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:05 am

At this time a topic like this is as annoying as NW replacing their DC9s. As much as I want UA to exit bankruptcy so that my FF miles do not get wasted, I will only believe it when I see a statement from UA.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:15 pm

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:25 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 9):
When have they previously been in bankruptcy? Backup for this statement would do womders!

Is there and echo here? I assume you don't understand the meaning of satire?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
airbus3801
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:13 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 2):
I read this and the first thing I immediately thought of is that this is all PR window dressing...

They need to start moving in SOME direction to get out of bankruptcy or else they will have a competitive bid. That's what Tilton wants to avoid, so he's grandstanding.

They're no closer now than they were last year, and I doubt they'll be out by the fall as is predicted.

Looks like someones jolly  snooty . Sure, they have announced this before, but at least have some hope.
 
phoenixX2
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:47 pm

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:23 am

Do they have new financing? What about their Retirement Program not getting funded? Will they have to liquidate some assets? Would these not be addressed prior to them exiting bk?

Rgds
 
TPASXM787
Posts: 1667
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:31 am

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:09 pm

Heard all this crap before from bankrupt companies. Not ready to drink the UA kool-aid yet. I'll believe it 8/1 when I see their filing come across my RSS at work.
This is the Last Stop.
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:14 pm

On the other hand... I wish them good luck and I hope they can pull it off.

PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
scotron11
Posts: 1181
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:54 pm

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:41 pm

Well, from their timescale, we only have 60 days at the outmost to wait, although I have no idea how long the voting issue takes from August 29.

Aside from the pension and contract issues, I thought they were turning their attention to aircraft leases. No? Maybe they have already settled that?

I guess they already have the lenders lined up for exit financing. Be interesting to see the final outcome.
 
baw716
Posts: 1460
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RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:55 pm

This is my forecast for UALs bankruptcy:
Aug 1: They submit their reorganization plan
Aug 3: Creditor committee turns it down (because it is the same plan from 2003)
Aug 5: Judge is forced by creditor committee to open UAL up to other organizations to bid on UAL.

UAL has neither the brainpower nor the financing lined up to exit bankruptcy.
Furthermore, if you have a look at the trend of their performance (look at their passenger numbers), they are still continuing to decline, as well as their yield. The only way they are eeking out better performance is because they are cutting their capacity. They cannot do that forever.

Bottom line, they have not done anything to make themselves over into a carrier that will attract the business traveler back, they have destroyed any credibility with the employee groups and they plan to exit bankruptcy protection going into the worst two quarters of the year?

This just doesn't meet the "viability" test.

My reorganization plan for UAL will be posted for view on August 1.
By then, hopefully, I will have someone to back it, or meld it in with another entity. If not, then it will have been an excellent exercise for my next job.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:10 pm

Baw-We went through, a couple of days ago, the hub schedules, and came up with this: EVERY SINGLE UNITED HUB, WITH THE CURRENT SCHEDULES, SEES EVERY SINGLE AIRCRAFT TYPE!!! Shouldn't any reorganization plan United comes up with start right there, with fleet simplification per station?
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
baw716
Posts: 1460
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RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:22 pm

SHU Pirate:
That is one approach...albeit the traditional one. Again, to solve the problem, you have to get out of the box.

You don't look at aircraft type. You look at the profitability of the hub. You breakdown the traffic at the hub, where it comes from, where it goes through, percentage local vs. through, then you determine each routes costs and unit revenue and determine if the mix of revenue local v. thru is a correct mix to make the flight profitable. If not, sometimes, by changing the mix, that will fix the problem. Sometimes, the route cannot be saved and you are better served allocating that aircraft somewhere else. In other words, it is not as simple as it looks. Also, and this is a big one, UA will have to go to two aircraft types domestically. It can't make it with one...but it could make it with two. I have the two in mind (but I am holding them in my vest).

Looking at it from the outside, I do not have access to those numbers, I can work it only based on what information I can gather from public access to records, therefore, I have to work it a different way. Its still the same methodology, but in a macro sense, not broken down so much by hub.

I also have products to introduce that will cost money and rolling them out will call for reallocation of funds: closing some non performing routes, selling off aircraft, etc. One thing is very clear: I WILL NOT TAKE ONE MORE DIME THAN HAS ALREADY BEEN TAKEN FROM THE EMPLOYEE GROUPS AND IF AT ALL POSSIBLE, I WILL FIND A WAY TO RESTORE A LITTLE OF WHAT WAS TAKEN AWAY, ONCE THE COMPANY IS PROFITABLE.

That is what I'm thinking.

Hope that answers your question.
baw716.
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:33 pm

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 22):
That is one approach...albeit the traditional one.

Dave, you're leaving out the small issue that United hasn't done anything even remotely close to the sort. They've taken and taken and taken from their employees, but they haven't cut anywhere else. If you are privvy to the numbers, have United's operational unit costs, less labor and fuel, gone down at all since they entered bankruptcy? For some reason, I would be very surprised to find out that they have.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
allstarflyer
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:33 pm

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 9):
When have they previously been in bankruptcy? Backup for this statement would do womders!

Yeah, how many times have we heard it - early '03, middle '03 . . . if they're serious, then cool for them. Otherwise, show us you have the right stuff before you shoot from the hip some PR horse manure that you're planning to exit BK.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
baw716
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Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:02 pm

RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:33 am

Britt,
I sent you a message....

Your last point just reinforces what I am saying. All these guys are doing is cutting costs by taking it from the employees (labor), creating a second entity for leisure traffic and doing business as usual. This is a recipe for disaster. They will burn through their cash before next summer and next time, there will not be a bank in the country that will touch them.

This is why I say that their reorganization plan is dead on arrival. As I said earlier, these people do not have a creative bone in their bodies. What I have in the book is radical, very radical and tough medicine, in some cases, but I would not take any more from the employee groups...and as soon as humanly possible, I would restore a little bit of what was taken....to the extent possible and still remain profitable and growing.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:25 am

BAW, I think it's great that you're trying to help, but I have a few questions.

First, how exactly do you know what UA has done? I know we can all assume, but unless you're in the board meetings, you don't really know.

Second, how are you going to even have a shot with your plan? I have doubts that any creditor with a lot of leverage will pick it up, and the judge will not hear any plans from an individual with no current relations to the airline.

Like I said, it's great to see that you're being proactive, but I don't think you're going to have a lot of success with this.
 
KarlB737
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RE: United To Exit Bankruptcy

Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:46 am

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