timz
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Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:42 am

Another auction listing, so more trivia:

Inside front cover: "Muse Air is now TransStar." The front cover AA ad features their Nashville hub; turns out they have three 72Ss a day to BNA from BTR-BHM-BOS-CHA-ORD-CVG-DTW-HSV-JAN-MEM-MOB-LGA-EWR, three M80s a day from CLE-LIT-MSY, three M80s from DCA, one of which stops at IAD, three flights from PHL, five from DFW and one M80 from LAX.

Braniff II has hubs at DFW and MCI, and EA is at MCI too. World has a 727 MCI-SFO connecting to the SFO-HNL D10; they also fly OAK-HNL. United has an L15 SFO-HNL; Hawaiian has a weekly L10 SMF-SFO-HNL.

Air Atlanta's hub has spokes to PHL-JFK-MEM-MCO-TPA-MIA; they also fly PHL-MIA and one 727 roundtrip ATL-LWB-JFK.

CO has 50 flights weekly LAX-SJC and 19 weekly SJC-SEA. That wasn't Continental West, was it? Aero West's 146s are supposed to start flying LAS to BUR, ONT, LAX on 22 May PENDING GOVT APPROVAL. Did that ever happen? SunWorld has 733s now with its DC9s.

This must be a mistake-- Jet America has its usual M80 flights, and (it says) they also fly a Beech ORD-RFD and a Twin Otter LGA-FRG.

Two AA M80s BUR-ORD-- and, eff 1 May, two UA 767s. UA also has a D8S (must mean a -71?) LGB-ORD-BDL.

People Express has a 747 EWR-SFO: leave 2215, arrive 0115. But that's better than leaving EWR at 0245 on another 747 and arriving LAX 0545. (They also have another 747 on each route at more normal hours.) Eastern no longer does JFK-LAX/SFO, but they have a 757 nonstop EWR-SFO. Northwest has a 757 TPA-LAX.

At some point UA made a point of flying to 50 states; in this issue they fly ORD-RIC-ILG, DEN-FSD-FAR, and DEN-CPR-RAP. They also fly SFO-ACV-RDD-SFO twice daily, along with ACV-SFO; PSA's 146s compete on ACV-SFO, EUG-SFO and MFR-SFO. Eff 14 May a PSA 146 will fly LAX-MRY-SFO-PSC-YKM.

America West flies 73S/733 thrice daily CID-DSM-PHX, thrice daily SGF-ICT-PHX, twice GJT-DRO-PHX and once DRO-GJT-PHX, twice PUB-COS-PHX and once COS-PUB-PHX.
 
WesternA318
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:49 am

Damn, where did WA send it's 733's at this point and what was TW bringing into SLC? I saw on here an L-1011 in SLC around this time frame, any idea what the routing was? Or if it was an equipment swap?
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Wayfarer
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:03 am

I love aviation history

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
United has an L15 SFO-HNL

flashback ... on lease from Pan Am, I believe
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Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
Hawaiian has a weekly L10 SMF-SFO-HNL.

another flashback ... when did they retire their last L10?

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blackearth
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:08 am

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
Another auction listing, so more trivia:

Inside front cover: "Muse Air is now TransStar."

Man, I remember those days. My wife and I got married in Feb. '86. She lived in Houston and I lived in New Orleans, so I commuted back and forth. The number of flights and airlines coming and going was staggering--CO, MuseAir/TranStar, Southwest. I believe for awhile during that period even Apple Air/New York Air/People Express may have had the route.

Talk about competition.

Flights were something on the order of every hour on the half-hour--cheap too. With advance purchase a oneway was something like $19.00 on TranStar or SW.

When CO began MSY-HOU service I switched to them and racked up the frequent flier miles. I'd get double points, bonus points, you name it. lol

That's how our marriage survived those first two years.
 
WesternA318
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Sat Jul 02, 2005 4:25 am

Blackearth,

Damn, that's a helluva thing to do. I'm doing the same, except I commute from EWR to SLC 3 x a month for my wife and kid. Too bad my routing is usually a 762/738, not on a 747-L10/727 on TW or something such as.
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Kahala777
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:08 am

Wasnt American operating the DC-10 DFW-LAS, DFW-MSY?

Wasnt United Airlines operating the 747 SFO-JFK, LAX-JFK?

Wasnt United Airlines operating the DC-10 ORD-ALB?

Wasnt United Airlines operating the 727 SMF-PDX, SMF-SEA?

Wasnt Pan Am operating the A300 LAX-SFO?

Wasnt Pan Am operating the 747 SFO-SEA?



Kahala777
 
blackearth
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:23 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 4):
Damn, that's a helluva thing to do. I'm doing the same, except I commute from EWR to SLC 3 x a month for my wife and kid. Too bad my routing is usually a 762/738, not on a 747-L10/727 on TW or something such as.

Wow, that's a lot worse than my ordeal. I don't know how you handle that one. That's what, a 4 hour flight? And I know it's not $19.00 one way!

MSY-HOU was a snap, a 50 minute flight, on DC-9's or 737's. Anyone know if CO had 727's then? If so, probably that too.

In those pre-9/11 days, I could leave my office at 6 PM on Friday, catch the 7PM to Houston, and be at her house a few minutes after 8. Get dressed for work on Monday, hop on a 6:30 AM flight and be at my desk in New Orleans at 8.

Even that easy routine got old. Odd thing is, the more I flew--and I did this for at least 75 weekends--the more jittery I got about safety. I know it's irrational.

Anyway, hopefully, your situation will improve soon.
 
uclax
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:21 am

Yes, AA did fly DC10's DFW-MSY. They were an impressive sight. They usually parked at B7 or B9, and the nose almost reached the concourse wall. They occasionally parked at B2, where the hold room is smaller.

I moved from there to the L.A. area in 1988, under the 24/25 Profile Approach for arrivals from the north and Asia, and the 1st ship I saw each morning was usually a PA A-300 operating SFO-LAX.

UAs L15s were part of their purchase of PA's Pacific operations; they were phased out quickly.

I remember several carriers operating DCA-IAD. I was visiting the Fairfax area that summer and saw a low-flying WA 72S on the route.

Speaking of MC, I never flew them, but while on childhood spotting trips to MSY, their airport customer service staff was always eager to let me visit their ramp and planes briefly for photos.
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WesternA318
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:05 am

Anyone remember if this was the time TWA was flinging their Tristars across the river from JFK to EWR?
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MakeMinesLAX
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:17 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 1):
where did WA send it's 733's at this point

I remember specifically charting their movements during the summer of '85; now if only I could find the chart...

As I recall, they spent most of their time around SLC. There were a few ops SLC-LAX. I know it sounds strange, but the recollection I have is of service to smaller cities to the north, such as BIL, BTM, BOI, etc.

Guess it's time for a treasure hunt...
 
MakeMinesLAX
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:22 am

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
CO has 50 flights weekly LAX-SJC and 19 weekly SJC-SEA. That wasn't Continental West, was it?

The way I remember, all the 733s were initially assigned to the CO West operation. I recall seeing them in SAN, too.
 
MakeMinesLAX
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:31 am

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
Aero West's 146s are supposed to start flying LAS to BUR, ONT, LAX on 22 May PENDING GOVT APPROVAL. Did that ever happen?

Never heard of them, but it reminds me of Tristar a decade later:

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StevenUhl777
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:44 am

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
At some point UA made a point of flying to 50 states

Happened for the first time in 1984, if I'm not mistaken.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 5):
Wasnt United Airlines operating the 727 SMF-PDX, SMF-SEA?

That sounds about right....I flew it in 2/1990. If PDX had it, I'll bet SEA did, too. UA also operated PDX-OAK, too, using a 733 or 735.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
MakeMinesLAX
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:48 am

Quoting Blackearth (Reply 6):
Anyone know if CO had 727's then?

Absolutely, with your choice of meatball!  cheeky 

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Then, after those middle-of-the-night flights did PEOPLExpress in, the hybrids started cropping up

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I just love the traffic in the background, in SJC, no less!
 
timz
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:51 am

"Wasnt American operating the DC-10 DFW-LAS, DFW-MSY?"

Yes to both.

"Wasnt United Airlines operating the 747 SFO-JFK, LAX-JFK?"

Neither.

"Wasnt United Airlines operating the DC-10 ORD-ALB?"

No.

"Wasnt United Airlines operating the 727 SMF-PDX, SMF-SEA?"

At the time they didn't fly that at all.

"Wasnt Pan Am operating the A300 LAX-SFO?"

Just the 747 at the time.

"Wasnt Pan Am operating the 747 SFO-SEA?"

Not at the time.
 
vegasplanes
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:56 am

Responding to Kahala777:

AA did indeed operate DC10's on LAS-DFW and also recall some DTW-ORD AA flights with DC10's in the 1980's, the connecting flight in ORD for the DC10 was HNL.
 
WesternA318
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:54 am

Now for my last question...(I think)

Where was WA flying the DC-10's by this point? Were they ever scheduled on the SLC-JFK run?
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stirling
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:15 am

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
CO has 50 flights weekly LAX-SJC and 19 weekly SJC-SEA. That wasn't Continental West, was it?

I am going to say yes to that one...

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
Aero West's 146s are supposed to start flying LAS to BUR, ONT, LAX on 22 May PENDING GOVT APPROVAL. Did that ever happen?

They morphed into ROYAL WEST, after purchasing the assetts of a Vegas based Grand Canyon tour operator. Originally they were to have a hub at COS. Wound up ending ops in Feb87. Some charters and subservices after that.

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 1):
Damn, where did WA send it's 733's at this point

LGA*
BOS*
SNA
BUR
LAS
LAX
ABQ
JFK
STL
RNO
FAT
JAC

*It was around this time Western had an unusual operation on the EAST COAST....Boston to LaGuardia...four times a day...self-contained; not tags to existing flights....but stand-alone flights. Weird.

Quoting Blackearth (Reply 6):
Anyone know if CO had 727's then?

Oh yes! Most certainly...It's the one aircraft I associate the most with Continental. Flew it many times PDX-SJC back in the old days (70's)

It would suit me just fine if A.Net was nothing but threads like this.
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isitsafenow
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:06 am

I have a NOV 1986 OAG and shows two WA DC10's at SLC...one to SEA and the other to HNL with a stop in SAN.
I see three 727-200's(WA) SLC-JFK.
I see no wide bodies across the river in NYC with any carrier, BUT
I did catch a listing of an Eastern A300 from MIA to FLL...28 minutes gate to gate.

I like Stirlings idea of threads that have Q's and A's on schedules and routes of the past. He is also correct on the LGA-BOS trips using 737-300's.
I may have to pat Stirling on the back with a respect tag in the future.
safe
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Cubsrule
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:10 pm

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
three M80s from DCA, one of which stops at IAD

Was DCA-IAD bookable? It's a whopping 23 miles...
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N200WN
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:27 pm

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 16):
Where was WA flying the DC-10's by this point? Were they ever scheduled on the SLC-JFK run?

Western routed a DC-10 SLC-JFK very early on in the SLC hub. I think it was that first year after the route structure was aligned to SLC from DEN with a smaller hub type operation at LAX.

In the summer of '82 I was on a WA DC-10 red eye routed SAN-LAX-SLC-JFK.
 
planespotting
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:38 pm

what all service did CID, MLI, and DBQ have at that time?
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NorthstarBoy
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:00 pm

i seem to remember, when i was a kid, and i was really into looking at the OAGs my dad brought home from work for me, that Iraqi Airways operated a service from Baghdad to Rio De Janeiro, if my memory serves me it was either a 707 or 747, was there such a service?

and can someone remind me where it stopped enroute?
Yes, I'd like to see airbus go under so Boeing can have their customers!
 
3201
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:35 pm

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 16):
*It was around this time Western had an unusual operation on the EAST COAST....Boston to LaGuardia...four times a day...self-contained; not tags to existing flights....but stand-alone flights. Weird.

They got some LGA slots that had to be used for short flights (under 1000 miles or 500 or something like that, don't know the details). They had to be used or lost. They were in the process of being swallowed up by DL, which would be able to use the slots. So they used them, rather than lose them.
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stirling
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:22 pm

Quoting 3201 (Reply 23):
They got some LGA slots that had to be used for short flights (under 1000 miles or 500 or something like that, don't know the details). They had to be used or lost. They were in the process of being swallowed up by DL, which would be able to use the slots. So they used them, rather than lose them.

I kinda figured it was something like that....interesting.

Wondering why they didn't use them as tags...like they did SLC-IAD-DCA.
Any idea of what the loads were like during that interim period?
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jdaniel001
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:36 pm

Also AA ran DC10's from DFW to AUS, SAT, and TUL. There was a small DC9 operator in Texas called Emerald Airlines. Their certificate was later bought to operated Braniff III.

[Edited 2005-07-06 16:37:06]
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drerx7
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:40 pm

What widebodies ran from IAH in 1986? I believe CO flew AB3s on the routes to MEX, MSY, and DEN. What other carriers flew heavy metal into IAH in 1986? BA DC10s? KLM747s? LH 747?
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jdaniel001
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:44 pm

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 26):
What widebodies ran from IAH in 1986? I believe CO flew AB3s on the routes to MEX, MSY, and DEN. What other carriers flew heavy metal into IAH in 1986? BA DC10s? KLM747s? LH 747?

I think PA ran a L1011 to London somewhere around that time period.

Also, anyone remember the airline in Lousiana named Royale? Or how about Altair? Better yet, remember Best Airlines?
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WesternA318
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:46 am

I remember Best Airlines and their DC-9's, along with Altair and their Fokkers. Anyone remember McClain with their Black and Gold 727-100's? I always heard my mom tell me the story of when she came to this country and my dad was waiting in SLC, she would be on the phone with him and he would ask what airline, she'd say.."The Big W!" That's how he knew she'd be on Western (since at this point my mom still couldn't read English). I remember being on a WA charter when I was 4-5 years old, pictures too!, from SLC to Papeete. From the pictures, it looked like a great flight, lol. The a/c was N902WA.
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MSYtristar
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:23 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 26):
I believe CO flew AB3s on the routes to MEX, MSY, and DEN

CO started AB3 flights on the IAH-MSY route around 1991 or so. They lasted until Continental Lite was started.

Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 27):
Also, anyone remember the airline in Lousiana named Royale?

I remember them fondly. They were huge in Louisiana for many, many years. One of my aviation preofessors at Louisiana Tech Universaity used to captain Royale EMB-110's. He had some stories to tell.
 
WesternA318
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:37 am

I once flew a CO AB3 *still with the EA stripe, but CO titles* about a week after they got it from EA. I was going IAH-LAX, and it was a great flight from what the pictures tell, lol.
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stirling
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:19 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 28):
Anyone remember McClain with their Black and Gold 727-100's?

Another failed "First/Premium-Class Only" airline.
Formed by a former Marriott and TWA Exec.
Started with this routing; LAX-ORD-RFD. Yep. Something with ORD and slots (?)
Soon replaced with LAX-PHX-ORD.
I think they lasted all of 5 months.
The airplanes were sure pretty though.

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 28):
I remember Best Airlines and their DC-9's,

This was the product of a large hotel and fast-food franchisee in the Midwest. They had multi-stop routes from hell all over the map....I remember Shreveport, Buffalo, Albany and Orlando in the mix...Anyone have more details? They were definitely interesting...haven't been able to lay my hands on a timetable in my years of searching.

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 26):
What widebodies ran from IAH in 1986? I believe CO flew AB3s on the routes to MEX, MSY, and DEN

See below:

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 29):
CO started AB3 flights on the IAH-MSY route around 1991 or so

In May of 1986, Continental had the following DC-10 flights out of Houston (IAH):
LAX/2X
LGW/1X

Delta had a 767 in IAH from ATL as late as 1984.
Prior to that, in 1978:
ATL/2X L1011
ORD/1X L1011

And in 1974:
ATL/1X L1011
JFK/1X L1011
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WesternA318
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:26 am

Hrmm....What happend to Emerald again? At one time I know they were flying a DC-9 on behalf of CO between IAH and HOU known as the Houston Proud Express. Where did their -9's end up? NW?
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timz
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:05 am

"what all service did CID, MLI, and DBQ have at that time?"

CID had nonstops from

ORD: UA* 146/F27, RU FK7
DEN: FL 73S, UA 727/73S
DSM: IU SWM, JT EMB, HP 73S/733, FL 73S
DTW: RC DC9/D9S eff 18 May
DBQ: JT EMB
MCI: JT EMB, EA* SWM
MKE: IU SWM
MSP: IU SWM, NW* SWM eff 15 May, RC D9S/DC9 eff 18 May, replacing RC CVR
MLI: UA 73S/727, RC DC9/D9S eff 18 May, OZ M80/DC9/D9S, EA* SWM
STL: OZ D9S/M80
ALO: OZ D9S

MLI had nonstops from

CID: OZ D9S, EA* SWM, UA 73S/727, RC D9S eff 18 May, UA* F27
(and also NW* SWM, eff 15 May, but not listed under CID-MLI for some reason)
ORD: AA* SH6, UA* 146/F27/SH6, RU FK7/SWM
DEN: UA 73S/727
DTW: RC D9S eff 18 May
DBQ: UA* SH6
GBG: RU SWM
MSP: OZ D9S, RC DC9/D9S eff 18 May
RST: OZ D9S
STL: TW* SWM, OZ* SWM, OZ D9S/DC9/M80

DBQ had nonstops from

CID: JT EMB
ORD: UA* F27/SH6, ML* EMB
MSP: RC* J31
MLI: UA* SH6
ALO: UA* F27/SH6, RC* J31
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:31 am

Stirling--Best Airlines served Rochester starting around 1983. I have their January 7, 1985 timetable. It shows:

CLE: 1x DTW, 2x BDL
DTW: 2x CLE, 1x BDL
BDL: 2x DTW, 1x PHL, 1x ROC
PHL: 2x BDL, 1x ROC, 1x SYR
ROC: 2x PHL, 1x SYR
SYR: 1x PHL, 1x ROC

Weird route system. They moved around some; during their time at ROC, I remember timetables including ROA, EWR, and I think BUF. ROC usually had flights to PHL, and I think at one point to EWR. And to think I threw out most of the old timetables at the time!  Sad

Jim
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stirling
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:30 am

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 34):
And to think I threw out most of the old timetables at the time!

Shame on you!  Wink

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 32):
Hrmm....What happend to Emerald again?

After the failed merger attempt with Southern Jersey Airlines, the operating certificate was sold to Jeffrey Chodorow and Arthur Cohen in 1990 to start Braniff (Mk III)

As for the fate of the Emerald DC-9-10 Fleet, here is all I know, it's not much...

N1301T went to Air Sur, then Viscount, then broken up at Grayson TX 1993
N931EA went to (eventually) AeroCaribe as XA-SPA stored at MEX since 2000
N932EA went to Air Margarita then Allegro, Written off at Tampico in 1996
N930EA went to Hawaiian, Estrellas del Air, then Aerolineas Internacionales stored at MEX since 2000
N50AF is still flying with Ameristar. 6 different owners since Emerald
N75AF is still flying with L.A. Suramericanas
N73AF is with Skyway Enterprises (?) owned now by 1st Source Bank
N70AF is still flying with Ameristar.
N72AF is stored at YIP.
N38641 went to Estrellas del Aire, Allegro, AeroCaribe. Now stored at MEX
N66AF is with the US Government. Energy Department (?)
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SunValley
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia May 1986

Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:48 pm

Quoting Wayfarer (Reply 2):
flashback ... on lease from Pan Am, I believe

The L-1011's UA had were not leased from PanAm. These were part of the package United Acquired when they purchased PanAm's Pacific Division. Most of these L-1011's became known as the "PUD" planes, referring to
PanAm, United, then Delta (who acquired them from UA)