cle757
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CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:24 pm

CO to discontinue ISP route

CO will discontinue its operations in Islip, N.Y. (ISP), effective Sept. 6, 2005. XJT employees at ISP have been offered other opportunities within that organization or a severance package based on their years of employment.



Stange the CLE-ISP route had good loads.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
nkops
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:35 pm

Isn't that the second time they've pulled out of ISP?? If I remember correctly, they use to do ISP-EWR in the ATR back in the 90's.
:evil:
 
727LOVER
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:38 pm

Quoting Nkops (Reply 1):
Isn't that the second time they've pulled out of ISP?? If I remember correctly, they use to do ISP-EWR in the ATR back in the 90's.

That is correct. I think they had a double-pull from HVN also.
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nkops
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:41 pm

And of course from ACY also.... wonder if they've ever pulled out of somewhere three times???
:evil:
 
stirling
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:59 pm

Quoting Nkops (Reply 3):
wonder if they've ever pulled out of somewhere three times?

Maybe Dallas/Fort Worth.
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A330323X
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:08 pm

I assume CommutAir is staying in ISP with the ALB/BOS flights?
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
nkops
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:39 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 5):
I assume CommutAir is staying in ISP with the ALB/BOS flights?

I think alot of it depends on who is doing the ground handling in ISP. When CO left ACY (for the second time), Commutair also left because they had no one to ground handle them anymore. Then again, CO only gave the airport 3 days notice!!  Angry
:evil:
 
joeman
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:51 pm

Quoting CLE757 (Thread starter):



Quoting CLE757 (Thread starter):
Stange the CLE-ISP route had good loads.

Discontinuing service with good loads is consistent with CO operations at CLE.
 
gothamspotter
Posts: 311
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:46 pm

Source?

-
-
-
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akelley728
Posts: 1965
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 1999 12:35 pm

RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:17 pm

Quoting CLE757 (Thread starter):
Stange the CLE-ISP route had good loads.



Quoting Joeman (Reply 7):
Discontinuing service with good loads is consistent with CO operations at CLE.

We all know by now that loads have nothing to do anything, it's all about yield.

If the flight is full, but everybody is on a $29 ticket, the flight isn't making money.
 
ssides
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:37 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 4):
Quoting Nkops (Reply 3):
wonder if they've ever pulled out of somewhere three times?

Maybe Dallas/Fort Worth.

To my knowledge, CO has never pulled out of DFW.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
stirling
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:00 pm

Quoting Ssides (Reply 10):
To my knowledge, CO has never pulled out of DFW.

You have to go way back, to the 1980's.

I am looking at the Continental Timetable from March 1982.
No Dallas/Ft Worth.
At the time, DFW was still a relatively new airport, Airlines were staking their "new" turf...Braniff, Delta, American were all in the middle of a fierce competitive struggle.

This is what Continental had in the State of Texas at the time.
AUS-ELP/IAH/SAT
ELP-ABQ/AUS/SJD/DEN/LAS/LAX/ZLO/MAF/PHX/PVR/SAT/TUS
IAH-AUS/BOS/CUN/CZM/DEN/LAX/MIA/MAF/MSY/EWR/LGA/PHX/SAT/SAN/SFO/TPA/IAD
LBB-DEN/MAF
MAF-ELP/IAH/LBB

Some other interesting cities Continental Served at the time as part of their VERY limited Route Network:
Green Bay Wisconsin
Pensacola Florida
Peoria Illinois
Lincoln Nebraska
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masseybrown
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:05 pm

The lowest advance purchase fare was $148 + tax or about 18.6 cents per mile. So with, let us say, half the fares higher and an average CO load, it should have been a profitable route.

Maybe not profitable enough.
 
Tornado82
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:09 pm

Quoting AKelley728 (Reply 9):
We all know by now that loads have nothing to do anything, it's all about yield.

If the flight is full, but everybody is on a $29 ticket, the flight isn't making money.

They'll definitely never leave ABE then  Wink with full ERJ's and no round trips less than $350... most $400 on up.
 
Wayfarer
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:10 pm

Quoting CLE757 (Thread starter):
CO to discontinue ISP route

CO will discontinue its operations in Islip, N.Y. (ISP), effective Sept. 6, 2005.

It could be that CO is strapped for passengers @ ISP? Southwest might expand at ISP as a result?

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deltairlines
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:30 pm

Keep in mind that while the CLE flight may have had high fares, I'd bet that the vast majority of these people are connecting in CLE. CO does have to compete with Southwest, Delta, Northwest and US Airways for connecting passengers. This does two things...it will lower the average fare, and it will spread the fare out over more miles. For example, say ISP-LAX is $350 (just a wild guess, but I'm assuming WN as the price-setter in this market)...through CLE, that fare covers 5022 miles, or 6.97 cents per mile, which is below CO's average yield. Thus, the fare loses money.

Jeff
 
luvfa
Posts: 333
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:49 am

Southwest plans to double their gates at ISP. When the new terminal opened we went from 3 to 4 gates. The old terminal has since been knocked down and we will use the space to expand the new terminal from 4 to 8 gates. I essence, WN should double our existing schedule out of ISP in the coming years.
 
D950
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:54 am

I work across the street from ISP, what terminal was taken down??
Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:24 am

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 15):
CO does have to compete with Southwest, Delta, Northwest and US Airways for connecting passengers.

Northwest does not serve Islip-MacArthur.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
dutchjet
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:51 am

ISP is a small station for CO, and the ERJs that flew the route can probably be more effectively and more used elsewhere.......it most likely has to do with yeilds and fares being generated on the ISP routes; first, most pax on the ISP-CLE routes were probably connecting pax going on to other destinations and yeilds can diminish with connecting passengers,sometimes lower fares than if nonstop travel was booked and 4 segments instead of 2 for a simple roundtrip, I do not think that O&D between ISP and CLE was supporting these flights; second, its Southwest effect, as Southwest grows at ISP and offers more and more nonstop and connection possibilities to more cities within the US out of ISP, fares on many routes will drop, making the CO service not practical or profitable.
 
avpilot01
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:08 am

Quoting Nkops (Reply 3):
wonder if they've ever pulled out of somewhere three times???



Quoting Stirling (Reply 4):
Maybe Dallas/Fort Worth

No, CO has never pulled out of DFW. Not starting service yet and pulling out are two separate things. I used to live in Dallas and the loads on CO have always been good. Since Delta has pulled out of DFW, they have been even better. Between DFW-IAH, DFW-EWR, DFW-CLE and DAL-IAH, they pretty much have the Dallas-Ft.Worth area covered.
 
avpilot01
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:13 am

Think about this one though.....

-WN pulls out of IAH.
-CO pulls out of ISP and HOU, where WN is dominate at both.

Coincidence???? There was something said a long time ago that WN and CO had a pretty good relationship. I can't remember the situation but CO in some words helped WN out. In exchange in the past WN did not lower fares on routes it competed with CO that it did with other majors like AA, DL and UA. I wonder if they worked out some kind of agreement. Like you get out of my territory and I will get out of yours. What do you think?
 
cle757
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:24 am

There might be some truth to that, WN has pulled out of some markets on CLE too.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:27 am

Quoting D950 (Reply 17):
I work across the street from ISP, what terminal was taken down??

Just the area next to the WN area I think. That area isn't used so I guess that will be it.
Will they just extend upon the new terminal they built, like a hallway after you come up the stairs and next to the little Bar there? Either that or they extend the stairs over and have more stairs caises and the restaurant area will be the center of the terminal with the stairs leading up to it.
Just my guess. Are their any renderings of what it will look like.

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D950
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:43 am

I went over there about an hour ago, nothing aesthetically will be done to the original terminal structure, but the east part of the building will undergo changes to accommodate the extra gates I was told.
Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
 
toltommy
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:17 am

Quoting CLE757 (Thread starter):
Strange, the CLE-ISP route had good loads.

As most here know.... Good loads down always mean profits.

CO pulled COEX service out of CAK twice. They even had CO van service from Akron-Fulton, and pulled out of there as well.
 
luvfa
Posts: 333
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:13 am

The old Ground Level Terminals, (Gates 12-18) were just torn down. They will be built as an extension to the new Peter McGowan Terminal.
 
dragon-wings
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:57 am

So many airlines reduced service or left Islip altogether.  Sad

Spirit: left
American Airlines: went from mainline to RJ service to no service.
US Airwaiys: went from mainline to Express service.
Continental Express: leaving
United: back in the 90's United had 727's into ISP.

Will Islip ever get a new airline to serve from there?

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 18):
Northwest does not serve Islip-MacArthur.

A couple of years ago Northwest Airlink had a ISP-BOS flight on a Saab.
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
stirling
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:57 am

Quoting Avpilot01 (Reply 20):
No, CO has never pulled out of DFW. Not starting service yet and pulling out are two separate things. I used to live in Dallas and the loads on CO have always been good.

Yes. Continental DID Leave DFW in the Early 80's.
They returned in the late 80's around the time of the peoplExpress acquisition.
FACT.

Continental discontinued many cities during this troubled period in the post Texas International merger days.
I too lived in the Big D and remember very well when CO left town.

Continental Route Map 1984
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IslipWN
Posts: 1082
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:33 pm

NOOOO!!! This is the second airline within one year! Hopfully US Airways Express won't pull out of ISP too. There is going to be a lot more check-in counters available. So far the AA ones are still empty, and now the CO ones are going to be empty. WE NEED SOME NEW AIRLINES AT ISP!!
 
masseybrown
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:06 pm

According to Q3 2004 O&D data, CLE-ISP is 83 pax daily. That should fill about 50% of CO's four daily E135s, assuming CO got about 90% of the traffic. So potential yield dilution by connecting pax isn't THAT huge; but, still, it obvously wasn't good enough for CAL.

Maybe if other airlines were as quick to cancel their weaker routes, the so-called overcapacity problem would go away.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:25 pm

>> Think about this one though.....

-WN pulls out of IAH.
-CO pulls out of ISP and HOU, where WN is dominate at both.

Coincidence????


IMO: yes

WN's IAH station wasn't very efficent in the grand scheme of WN opperations. It seved one destination (DAL) and had a fraction of the frequencies that HOU offered. WN only occupied something like 1-2 gates and rapid expansion in other markets (MDW, N.E) meant those resources could go to much better use elsewhere. Houston opperations were consolidated to HOU, and some HOU-DAL service was thinned (I think frequencies went from 31 daily to 27 daily). CO's HOU presence was, likewise, minimal.

This wasn't concurent with any CO move. I would bet my life this is in no way a "I'll pat your back if you pat my back" sort of move.
 
N200WN
Posts: 694
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:43 pm

Quoting Avpilot01 (Reply 21):
-WN pulls out of IAH.
-CO pulls out of ISP and HOU, where WN is dominate at both.

Coincidence???? There was something said a long time ago that WN and CO had a pretty good relationship. I can't remember the situation but CO in some words helped WN out. In exchange in the past WN did not lower fares on routes it competed with CO that it did with other majors like AA, DL and UA. I wonder if they worked out some kind of agreement. Like you get out of my territory and I will get out of yours. What do you think?

No way. Anyone remember this exchange:

Crandall: "Raise your goddamn fares twenty percent. I'll raise mine the next morning. You'll make more money and I will too."

Putnam: "Robert, we can't talk about pricing."

Crandall: "Oh, bullshit, Howard. We can talk about any goddamn thing we want to talk about."

And the rest is history.
 
lat41
Posts: 457
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RE: CO Pulls Out Of ISP

Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:40 pm

Don't know if they did much marketing or promotion at ISP but across the Sound at PVD, they are very low profile. Very little advertising or banging their drum. They just cruise along with their same EWR and CLE offerings. One main line, the rest RJs. Could the presence of WN be having the same effect?