B742
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Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:03 pm

UK carrier, Bmi Britsh Midland has confirmed its new services to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. The airline will operate 3x weekly flights from London's Heathrow airport with the A330-200!

The flights will depart on Tue, Thu & Sun!

Will they use the same A330 currently operating to BOM?

How are Bmi's long haul aircraft plans?

Are they still receiving the EK A330-200, A6-EAS I think?


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Not sure if this has already been posted, I tried posting the other day, but the server was down!

Rob!
 
nycflyer
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:18 pm

is BA still in RUH? or did they pull out completely? I know there were some terorrist threats against BA in Saudi Arabia, causing at least intermittent withdrawals. If BA is still there, is the UK-Saudi market big enough for three carriers (BD, BA, SV), and if not, I wonder how security issues have figured into BD's plans?
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:27 pm

Quoting B742 (Thread starter):
UK carrier, Bmi Britsh Midland has confirmed its new services to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

What's the source on this, last I heard they hadn't applied for the correct authority for the route!?

Quoting B742 (Thread starter):
Not sure if this has already been posted, I tried posting the other day, but the server was down!

It has, many times, and pops up in every other thread about BMI.

Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 1):
is BA still in RUH? or did they pull out completely?

They're totally gone AFAIK.

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
B742
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:36 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 2):
It has, many times, and pops up in every other thread about BMI.

I meant has a thread on confirmation at RUH come up before?  Wink

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 2):
What's the source on this, last I heard they hadn't applied for the correct authority for the route!?

Source: Justplanes.com
Bmi confirmed Riyadh start Jun 30
bmi has confirmed it will inaugurate service from London's Heathrow Airport to Riyadh (Saudi Arabia) on September 1st. The airline will operate 3 flights a week with an Airbus A330 departing Heathrow on Tue/Thu/Sun.

Quoting NYCFlyer (Reply 1):
is BA still in RUH?

Nope, they've left RUH, only SV fly the route now (772,744)

Rob!
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:48 pm

Quoting B742 (Reply 3):
Source: Justplanes.com
Bmi confirmed Riyadh start Jun 30
bmi has confirmed it will inaugurate service from London's Heathrow Airport to Riyadh (Saudi Arabia) on September 1st. The airline will operate 3 flights a week with an Airbus A330 departing Heathrow on Tue/Thu/Sun

No disrespect but I don't know how relaible a source JustPlanes is. In this thread http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2114656 it was suggested that the RUH service may never happen, so thats why I queried it. Have BMI made any statement regarding a start date??

Either way I won't hold my breath. RUH requires a daily service at least. Have you ever tried to obtain decent availabilty on SV? Not easy!


7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
Horus
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:57 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 4):
Either way I won't hold my breath.

As Rob said this has been confirmed.

It was also announced on zawya 3 days ago (very reliable source on Middle Eastern businesses).
http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm?story...&Section=Industries&page=Transport
(subscription only)

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 4):
RUH requires a daily service at least. Have you ever tried to obtain decent availabilty on SV? Not easy!

SV only have 4x weekly B777 RUH-LHR flights. BA also had 3 or 4x B777 weekly flights. So its plausible to operate into KSA with only a few flights a week. In fact the low availability and high fares make this route quite a money maker.


Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
by188b
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:00 pm

and you can book the flights on flybmi.com
next flights : BD LHR-TXL J, FR SXF-STN Y, SN BRU-LHR Y, MA LHR-BUD Y, BA BUD-LHR J, BA LCY-SNN-JFK J, BA JFK-LHR J, BA
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:06 pm

Quoting Horus (Reply 5):
As Rob said this has been confirmed.



Quoting BY188B (Reply 6):
and you can book the flights on flybmi.com

I stand corrected then. I shall retreat to my corner...

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
whitehatter
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:08 pm

Quoting B742 (Thread starter):

How are Bmi's long haul aircraft plans?

Bit sketchy, but the Bishop (as he's known) has mentioned in his speeches adding one or more longhaul aircraft to the fleet every year for the next few years.

I'm not sure if they have any more outstanding options at Airbus for the A332 but those are the aircraft I'd expect to see arriving. The mainline fleet is rationalised around Airbus and Embraer, with Baby flying the 737s inherited from mainline and some others which have come and gone as a result of fleet adjustment.

I wouldn't even put it past him to do an ILFC or GECAS lease for a 752 for MAN-IAD as this aircraft has been successful on that route. However another A332 is probably indicated in the short term. The proposed VS MAN-LAS service might free up aircraft days as BD is currently doing that route in co-operation with Virgin Holidays.

As for the comments about SV flying that route, LHR-RUH is operated by that airline using their onboard policies. Not every traveller cares for the way they do their service and an alternative could be successful. One reason BA pulled out was security concerns, and BMI is not as much a target as the UK's flag carrier. That point naturally is debatable.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
B742
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:37 pm

Quoting Horus (Reply 5):
As Rob said this has been confirmed.



Quoting BY188B (Reply 6):
and you can book the flights on flybmi.com

Thanks guys for backing me up  Wink

Here's the flight times:

Flight no: BD775
Depart: LHR - London (Heathrow) at 09:35, terminal 1
Arrive: RUH - Riyadh (King Khaled Int'l) at 17:50
Flight time: 01:15
Airline: bmi
Aircraft: Airbus Industrie A330-200
Stops: 0
Days: Tue, Thu & Sun

Flight no: BD776
Depart: RUH - Riyadh (King Khaled Int'l) at 00:40
Arrive: LHR - London (Heathrow) at 05:40, terminal 1
Flight time: 12:00
Airline: bmi
Aircraft: Airbus Industrie A330-200
Stops: 0
Days: Wed, Fri & Mon

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 2):
What's the source on this

My second source is flyBmi.com  Smile

Rob!
 
speedbirdcrew
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:57 pm

Quoting B742 (Reply 9):
Flight no: BD775
Depart: LHR - London (Heathrow) at 09:35, terminal 1
Arrive: RUH - Riyadh (King Khaled Int'l) at 17:50
Flight time: 01:15

Damn thats a quick flight!!! Could concorde do it that fast if it was still in service?!?!?!
 
BestWestern
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:06 am

Someone in BD is telling porkies regarding their long haul schedules for this winter.

Amazing that BD are also selling a BOM daily service, isnt it?

Just so happens that both the BOM and RUH flights depart heathrow at the exact same time. (09:35)....

Also amazing that BD will need five A330's this winter to operate all the flights that they are selling (Two at heathrow, three at Manchester). At last count, they had three A330's.

BD, get your act together, and finally decide what you are planning for this winter. Is it a daily BOM, or RUH... Will IAD survive? What about LAS and SLU?

Rumours that SLU is performing really badly this summer, with BD dropping Business return fares to £699 inclusive.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
ZKOJH
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:56 am

any one know y they stopped man-yyz too
Vietnam time..
 
Skymonster
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:12 am

They're probably planning to reconfigure the A330 in the all-new bmi "savage class" with low lead in fares (but be quick or it'll cost you more than BA used toi charge), buy-on-board (if we don't sell out before we get to your seat), no lounges, no through checkin and absolutely no alcohol come what may, in the deluded belief that this will make RUH an attractive destination in the eyes of the unwashed masses!  Wink

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
BestWestern
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:30 pm

As a frequent BD short haul flier, I'm seriously concerned in the lack of direction they seem to have these days.

They are planning to take heathrow low fare, but maintinaing many of the fixed costs. At the same time, they are alienating their most frequent (high yielding) fliers through stopping lounge access to their * Gold customers when they take a lower fare flights.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
UK_Dispatcher
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:17 pm

Quoting Zkojh (Reply 12):
any one know y they stopped man-yyz too

This is an AC route, which was operated by bmi for one season, in conjunction with AC.

AC decided to return to the route in their own right this year, using a 762, and it is still in co-operation with BD.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:38 pm

Okay - so RUH is on sale.

(As BestWestern mentions above), there are so many inconsistencies with BMIs planning and schedules, what is the likelihood that further destruction of BMIs loyal Manchester customer base is inevitable in order to support growth at LHR?

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:49 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 16):
what is the likelihood that further destruction of BMIs loyal Manchester customer base is inevitable in order to support growth at LHR?

My call is the following:

2 aircraft in Manchester

ORD to x5 weekly
IAD to x3 weekly
LAS to Weekly
SLU dropped

1 aircraft in London

BOM back to x4 weekly
RUH x3 weekly

By the way, dont be so cynical... 7L - this is an enhancement, not a destruction. Just like the way *G's and *S's no longer have lounge access on Standard economy fares, and have to use SSCI.

[Edited 2005-07-04 12:51:55]
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
thowman
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:15 pm

As a Gold Card member and a pretty frequent flier with them, I have already made the decision to stop flying BMI as a direct result of their decline in standards over the last year or so.

Main reason being those stated above, the inability to redeem any flights unless it is done so months in advance (impossible for my constantly changing schedule) and the uselessness of my four upgrade vouchers for most of the routes I'd ever use.

You really only just have to look on flyertalk to see the uproar this is all causing

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=486

BestWestern. You're posting on this forum under a different name, aren't you?
 
BestWestern
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:39 pm

Quoting Thowman (Reply 18):
the uselessness of my four upgrade vouchers for most of the routes I'd ever use.

I'm ashamed to say that I have three unused *G vouchers from last year. I'm heading rapidly to silver due to BD schedules being so poor to Italy, Paris and Spain. Usually they wont let you upgrade to Business using vouchers due to their being no food on board.

Quoting Thowman (Reply 18):
BestWestern. You're posting on this forum under a different name, aren't you?

Yes I am. Flyertalk - the best frequent travel resource in existance. Flyertalk has seriously helped my mileage balances on Delta, IC hotels, and with BD also. I'll stay with BD until I have enough miles for two from CPH to China in F with SQ. CPH or Madrid (Zone 3) to China is only 50k miles in Y or 50k with cash and miles in F.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
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Fly-K
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:32 pm

How will bmi handle the crew layover in RUH? Most Western carriers don't have crew layover in the kingdom anymore.
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
Billy
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:54 pm

Swiss is the only carrier to overnight crews (on their RUH run).
Glad to see the flight finally confirmed.
 
Skymonster
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:46 am

bmi WILL be laying crews over in RUH for up to three days in some cases, and MANY of those faced with the prospect of a trip are NOT happy about it.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:55 am

Quoting Billy (Reply 21):
Glad to see the flight finally confirmed.

Yep - and my apologies for doubting you on this!  sorry 

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
ZKOJH
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:47 am

yep bmi have become a turn off for me now , and decided to leave there dimond club, i was not happy when they gave me a quote for a man-lhr rtn at 290.00 that kinda sucked a bit,
Vietnam time..
 
babybus
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:14 am

According to the SWISS website they don't have flts to Riyadh anymore. When I used to fly them their A330's were normally only one third full. If they and BA couldn't make it work how does BMI think it can?

I can't see where RUH fits into the BMI business plan or is this some hopeless, wild shot in the dark as usual.

It is also very unfair of them to expect their staff to over-night in what is a difficult and dangerous country for westerner's right now.

What are they up to?
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
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Fly-K
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:40 am

LX flies ZRH-RUH-JED vv 3 times a week.

Interesting about the bmi layover...
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
shawnnyc
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:47 am

Quoting Babybus (Reply 25):
If they and BA couldn't make it work how does BMI think it can?

I can't see where RUH fits into the BMI business plan or is this some hopeless, wild shot in the dark as usual.

It is also very unfair of them to expect their staff to over-night in what is a difficult and dangerous country for westerner's right now.

What are they up to?

My guess is that the UK and Saudi have very restrictive bilaterals. Bmi will probably have all the allocations for LHR-RUH. BA probably felt that they can make more money with less risk some where else. Bmi does not have as many options. I think it is a good move on Bmi's part. Given that a large british expat pop still resides in the kingdom and that Saudi airlines is not everyone's first choice, Bmi should do fine.
 
whitehatter
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:02 am

Quoting Babybus (Reply 25):
According to the SWISS website they don't have flts to Riyadh anymore. When I used to fly them their A330's were normally only one third full. If they and BA couldn't make it work how does BMI think it can?

connecting passengers from United flights as well as O&D punters who used to use British Airways.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 17):

2 aircraft in Manchester

ORD to x5 weekly
IAD to x3 weekly
LAS to Weekly
SLU dropped

ORD is a busy flight. IAD is doing well with the 752, so don't expect either to be cut back. Another lease might be negotiated until the next A332 arrives.

VS will take over LAS from this winter. The other Carribbean flights are op'ed with Virgin Holidays so have some guaranteed revenue.

Current fleet requirements are tight but with that 752 lease extended or replaced with another until the new capacity arrives it allows all current frequencies. LH could even help out with some capacity if they have an A343 available this winter, seeing as they are a big BD stakeholder.

I look at the current turmoil as being positive. Other carriers have flown routes at a loss and flown directly into the hands of the bankruptcy courts. BD is at least being proactive and is no longer in the red. VS would also suffer if BD was not around at LHR, as they operate plenty of feeders into VS longhaul.

Perhaps BD and Bishop should take a long look at their slot allocation and start selling some off, using the money to expand the fleet. Just how much those slots are worth is debatable, but it would be many millions.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
babybus
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:56 am

Quoting Fly-K (Reply 26):
LX flies ZRH-RUH-JED vv 3 times a week

Yeah, sorry about that.

Just went back to check their site. Good job I wasn't trying to book a flight with LX as their booking engine said no direct flights and suggested changing at CAI.

Like most airlines even LX have to double up their flights to fill an aircraft by stopping in JED and RUH.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
Horus
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Tue Jul 05, 2005 4:14 am

Quoting Babybus (Reply 29):
Just went back to check their site. Good job I wasn't trying to book a flight with LX as their booking engine said no direct flights and suggested changing at CAI.

AF's Jeddah flights route CDG-CAI-JED with 3x weekly A332 flights. Their RUH flights also used to route via CAI, but now get 3 or 4x weekly A319 AF Dedicate flights. AF also have daily terminator B777 service to CAI.

Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
Billy
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:48 am

UK is by far the largest European market from Saudi. About 30,000 trips are generated to London per airport (JED, RUH, DMM). Of course, DMM's London flights are operated in Bahrain (booze, choice of carrier and more interline options).

I hear (off topic) that BA is taking a beating from GF in this market and once the new GF J class is fully installed that BA will lose a lot of interlining traffic that flies BAH-LHR-GF European markets.

As happened on the Saudi routes, BA will find something better to do with the aircraft and slots. It also did not help having to cough up for a lot of insurance to operate into Saudi.

AF, KL and LH are delighted.
 
ZRH
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:47 am

Quoting Babybus (Reply 25):
According to the SWISS website they don't have flts to Riyadh anymore. When I used to fly them their A330's were normally only one third full. If they and BA couldn't make it work how does BMI think it can?

Sorry, but I think you didn't look very well on Swiss's website. They are flying three times a week to RUH (days 2,4,7). LX 228 dep. 1240 arr. 1910. Easy to find in the Swiss time table, there is even a link to a map with all destinations.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:06 pm

Quoting Babybus (Reply 25):
It is also very unfair of them to expect their staff to over-night in what is a difficult and dangerous country for westerner's right now.

Agreed. Are there any BMI staff who know the feeling within the BMI camp?

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
flybmi330
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:50 pm

Whitehatter,

VS are not taking over the MAN-LAS this winter, they are adding capacity to LGW-LAS, and are starting a weekly MAN-BGI.

Steve
 
cornish
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:16 pm

funnily enouh while sitting here this morning in south africa I have had an interesting discussion about just how close BMI were to starting a MAN to South Africa service last year. It got very close to actually happening, before some certain issues came up to stop it commencing.

However I have the distinct feeling the reason BMI gave to the south africans is quite far from the real truth.....

(I'll save that for when I get back !!)

Shame as I reckon that is a route that certainly could have worked for them - given some real long haul commitment out of MAN.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
whitehatter
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:09 pm

Quoting Flybmi330 (Reply 34):
Whitehatter,

VS are not taking over the MAN-LAS this winter, they are adding capacity to LGW-LAS, and are starting a weekly MAN-BGI.

MAN-LAS was on the planning sheet I saw.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
jasepl
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:21 pm

Quoting Babybus (Reply 25):
I can't see where RUH fits into the BMI business plan or is this some hopeless, wild shot in the dark as usual.

BMI pulled one 330 off the MAN-IAD route to fly LHR-BOM when the CAA gave them 4 weekly frequencies to Bombay after round 1 of the bilateral re-negotiation. This meant that, on 3 days of the week, the aircraft sits at LHR.

That's why they decided to fly to Riyadh (combination of flight durations, route authority and market) on those 3 days.

However, with round 2, BMI have evidently been given daily Heathrow-Bombay flights and they have started selling these.

This could mean (a) Riyadh is a temporary, stop-gap arrangement, or (b) BMI are getting more planes from somewhere.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:37 pm

Quoting Jasepl (Reply 37):
This could mean (a) Riyadh is a temporary, stop-gap arrangement, or (b) BMI are getting more planes from somewhere.

Equally as likely is that BMI, given their current 'strategy' haven't actually decided what the hell they are doing.

Maybe they'll bring back the AT4, and use it via 7 intermeidary stops enroute to RUH.

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
jasepl
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:47 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 38):
Maybe they'll bring back the AT4, and use it via 7 intermeidary stops enroute to RUH.

Ha ha! BMI have been hanging out in Air India territory (BOM), so this is bound to happen!  Wink
 
EK156
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:16 pm

Just wishful thinking.... Would it be more feasible for BMI to operate
LHR-RUH-DXB?
 
STARCREW
Posts: 86
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:54 am

RUH is definitely happening. Can't go into too much detail on here but the major security issues have been addressed. Crews will slip 2 days in RUH. Only Swiss currently slip crews in the kingdom. General feeling amongst crew is that they are not keen on the idea but they will be VERY SAFE!.

The RUH/BOM will fully utilize the LHR A332 finally! Daily BOM will require another aircraft which is currently being sourced. Expect no change to MAN longhaul as all routes esp LAS performing well.

Rumours from toad hall that CY is looking to offload their A332's as they are too big for them and costing them too much but saying that spare A332's are pretty hard to find.

Loads going on at the moment but would have to kill you if I told you...

Very Bronzed STARCREW
there is only ONEWORLD
 
lapper
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:04 am

Quoting EK156 (Reply 40):
Just wishful thinking.... Would it be more feasible for BMI to operate
LHR-RUH-DXB?

Could you imagine anyone who would want to fly that route (apart from us on A.net) when you can fly direct on BA or EK numerous times per day?
 
B742
Topic Author
Posts: 3559
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RE: Bmi Confirms New Services To RUH

Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:09 am

Quoting STARCREW (Reply 41):
Rumours from toad hall that CY is looking to offload their A332's as they are too big for them and costing them too much but saying that spare A332's are pretty hard to find

Do Bmi have the finance to get these 2 332's, would LH provide this if they don't? This would be a perfect chance to expand without ordering new 330's, they are both RR powered aswell!

What was the result to the rumours of Bmi getting a/some 343's?

I'm surpised Bmi hasn't introduced DXB!

Rob!

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