MAH4546
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BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:44 am

I've been hearing that last year's BA 204/205 MIA-LHR service, which operated MoSa only, would operate daily this winter. This may be confirmation...

International Herald Tribune, Paris:
Not to be outdone, non-American airlines have expanded service in hopes of taking advantage of strong summer demand. Along with Air France, British Airways has expanded its summertime service to the United States, with three flights a day connecting Los Angeles and London, up from its usual two a day throughout the year, and it will likewise offer three flights a day between Miami and London later this year.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/07/04/news/air.php

BA 204/205 is still only MoSa in reservation systems. Hope this is true. MIA has always been one of BA's best performing stations.
a.
 
richardw
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:27 pm

I notice that the lowest fares on this route in November are changeable

"Changes:Permitted at any time except on days of travel for a change fee of £ 50 or an upgrade fee of £ 50 plus any difference in fare. Routing may not be changed."

So with more flights possible BA may do well out of passengers changing their flights.
 
B742
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:43 am

Why not operate LHR/LGW-FLL flights?

Great to hear that MIA is performing great!

Rob!
 
LH423
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:46 am

There's been nothing internal about this. So, I'll keep an eye out, but schedule changes are almost always published in the company newspaper.

LH423
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:38 am

With the additional 4x weekly 744 flights to MAA, 7x weekly 772 flights to BOM and new 5x weekly flights to BLR isn't BA going to be stretching longhaul aircraft utilisation enough this winter without adding an additional 7x weekly 744 flight to MIA?

Agreed, the additional 7x weekly flight to LAX is dropped again for the Winter, but BA reservations show the return of BA204/205 2x weekly to MIA and BA042/43 5x weekly to CPT, both with the 744.

Seems BA would need additional aircraft as the additional 4 longhaul 767s aren't supposed to be dusked (from shorthaul configuration) until during the Winter season.
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2travel2know
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:28 am

Any specific reason why LHR - MIA and not LGW - MIA or LGW - FLL ??
How about MAN - MIA ? No demand for such service?
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
LH423
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:33 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 5):
How about MAN - MIA ?

There already is a MAN flight from MIA. It's operated by American Airlines and carries a BA codeshare. It operates with a 737-300ER during the Winter months.

FlyCaledonian does raise the point that with the new long-haul flights to BLR and PVG (both with 777s) and increased flights to MAA and HKG, and the return of BA42/43 to CPT, the long-haul network is starting to get stretched. Some relief will come with the addition of a few 767s being transferred from the short-haul fleet.

LH423
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hawk44
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:48 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 2):
Why not operate LHR/LGW-FLL flights?

I doubt FLL could handle this as T4 is a mess already to with Avianca, US, NK, JM and all the little airlines such as chalks and lynx.

Hawk44
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flymia
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:40 pm

Awesome news. Great to see 3 BA planes in.
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MAH4546
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:28 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 5):
Any specific reason why LHR - MIA and not LGW - MIA or LGW - FLL ??
How about MAN - MIA ? No demand for such service?

A few...

1) The high-yield passengers, which are plenty on BA's MIA-LHR route, want to go to MIA and LHR. Not FLL, not LGW.
2) AA flies MIA-MAN.
a.
 
Xkorpyoh
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:51 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
AA flies MIA-MAN.

for 3 months only (JAN-MAR 06)..lets call that a seasonal charter
 
MAH4546
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:11 pm

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 10):
for 3 months only (JAN-MAR 06)..lets call that a seasonal charter

Or we can call it what it is...a scheduled service that operates seasonally for three months.

The loads on the flights were great last summer, but the yields were less than spectacular outside of this period, when traffic is heaviest. It was great to see AA attempt this flight, but it is better suited for bmi or Virgin Atlantic to do.
a.
 
2travel2know
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:47 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
The high-yield passengers, which are plenty on BA's MIA-LHR route, want to go to MIA and LHR. Not FLL, not LGW.

There are quite a number of "high-yield passengers" around FLL, PBI and even RSW that would rather avoid MIA.
I'm sure there'll be the day we'll see London (most likely LGW) - FLL / PBI / RSW non-charter type flights.
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MAH4546
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:55 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 12):
There are quite a number of "high-yield passengers" around FLL, PBI and even RSW that would rather avoid MIA.

Yes, there are. Though not enough. And they won't have the features that MIA has, like the British Airways Terraces Lounge. Immigration at FLL is also worse than MIA, and a trans-Atlantic flight would arrive at rush time, on top of that. It's bad enough when you have three flights from Kingston arriving at the same time. Imagine a flight from London with the same amount of travelers on top of that.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 12):
I'm sure there'll be the day we'll see London (most likely LGW) - FLL / PBI / RSW non-charter type flights.

We won't see PBI-LGW or RSW-LGW any time soon. Neither are US-London gateways, and no airline would waste their time on such a money losing route. FLL-LHR/LGW is only a matter of time, though. However, it is not worth the costs to British Airways to set-up a second station in the Miami area when the business travelers are going to go to MIA. AeroMexico learned this with their short lived FLL-MEX, US Airways learned this with their short lived FLL-PTY, and American Airlines learned this with their short lived FLL-CCS. All three flights performed excellent load-wise, but the business travelers that make those routes so profitable were going to Miami. London will be no different.

FLL's best shot at getting service to Europe back is Air France/Delta to Paris. Huge market potential and more local high-yielding traffic. Plus, in general, Paris is a better connecting hub.

[Edited 2005-07-06 16:57:18]
a.
 
rjpieces
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:34 am

FLL's best shot at getting service to Europe back is Air France/Delta to Paris. Huge market potential and more local high-yielding traffic. Plus, in general, Paris is a better connecting hub.

Didn't they almost start this several years back? What happened?
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dutchjet
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:57 am

I agree with MAH4546, BA will not split its opeation in South Florida between MIA and FLL........it does not make sense and will simply increase costs to fly 2 flights out of one airport and the 3rd from another, while some South Floirda residents bitch and moan about MIA, they will use it for longhaul and intercontinental flights, after all, its only about 25 miles from FLL to MIA and even PBI is less than 70 miles from MIA. Also, BA will not split its services from MIA between LHR and LGW.....London bound pax want LHR, the connections are at LHR, and as long as BA has a slot at LHR for a third flight it will operate into LHR; LGW is a second choice airport and the US-London flights that use LGW only do so because they are prohited from going into LHR due to Bermuda2.

Dont get me wrong - I would love to see a FLL-Europe flight launched (FLL is my US hometown airport, I split my time between Europe and FLL and fly BRU-FLL roundtrip a minimum of 10 times per year) and think that the demand is there to support a flight from FLL to either London, Paris, Frankfurt or even Amsterdam (to work, the flight would have to go to a European airport where there are connection possibilities offered by an alliance). FLL is a growing area and as I mentioned in another thread, so many Europeans are now making South Florida their second (winter) which adds to traffic......but I do not see BA being the carrier to take the first step. More likely, a US carrier will be the first to open this market - how about US with a 762 flying FLL-FRA connecting into the STAR hub at FRA since, after all, FLL is now a US focus city - or something like that. There is a comment about Air France/Delta starting FLL-CDG - there was a rumor that this route was going to launch prior to 9/11 and then, of course, it never happened. With CDG now offering lots of connections with better coordinated schedules, and AF doing quite well on North Atlantic routes, its possible but probably not likely.....I do not think that FLL is a priority for AF and SEA or DEN or MSP have all been thrown around as the next AF city in the US, not FLL.

Another possibility would be an airline like Condor or Martinair (both of which I think served FLL at one time) opening the route on a 3 or 4 day per week basis - an FLL-Europe route will be far more leisure and price oriented than the MIA services, in my opinion.

Off topic but related, MAH456, you are the MIA expert, any information at all concerning the long promised but never materializing BRU-MIA nonstop on AA? It would make my life easier for sure!!!
 
rjpieces
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:11 am

Dutchjet, how do you usually fly FLL-BRU?
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MAH4546
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:18 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 15):
any information at all concerning the long promised but never materializing BRU-MIA nonstop on AA? It would make my life easier for sure!!!

Unfortunatley, it doesn't look likely for next winter. AA is always keeping their options open with this route, especially as they stregnthen ties with SN Brussels. They were not pleased with the financial performance of MIA-MAN last winter, so that may have had something to do with it. They want to work on improving that flight's performance.

Lately, the talk has been that the Dallas-Zurich flight will move to Miami if Swiss decides to leave MIA after the AA relationship inevitably ends (although, until then, Swiss is increasing MIA service this winter with a 6th weekly service).
a.
 
hawk44
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:40 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 15):
how about US with a 762 flying FLL-FRA connecting into the STAR hub at FRA since, after all, FLL is now a US focus city - or something like that.

This was a rumor a couple of months back but sadly I doubt it will happen. I think FLL-FRA could work for Saturday only service or something along those lines.

Hawk44
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dutchjet
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:58 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 16):
Dutchjet, how do you usually fly FLL-BRU?

I am a CO guy - fly BRU-EWR-FLL and return - good schedules, good service, competitive (although not the cheapest) fares and it also allows me to stop off in the NYC area on some trips either coming or going. EWR is a good port of entry into the US - it does not matter so much for me but my partner holds a dutch passport and the CO facility at EWR is a low-stress experience.

And, I guess I am lucky, I have had a very good experience with the CO OnePass program, upgrades and I have been able to use my miles, although it does require a lot of advance planning!
 
N62NA
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:12 am

You know what would be really great? If that third flight on the MIA-LHR segment would be a daytime flight!

MIA is my home airport and I am purposely flying to BOS in August to take advantage of their morning flight out just so I don't have to endure the 9 hours staring into the darkness (I just can't sleep on planes!).

Would be fantastic (though highly unlikely I am sure) if they timed the third flight to leave around 8am for arrival into LHR around 11pm London time.
 
dutchjet
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:05 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 20):
You know what would be really great? If that third flight on the MIA-LHR segment would be a daytime flight!

MIA is my home airport and I am purposely flying to BOS in August to take advantage of their morning flight out just so I don't have to endure the 9 hours staring into the darkness (I just can't sleep on planes!).

Would be fantastic (though highly unlikely I am sure) if they timed the third flight to leave around 8am for arrival into LHR around 11pm London time.

We have spoken about daylight flights before - while it seems that many pax like the idea of daylight flights to Europe, in real life, very few actually want to fly them since you lose a (very long) day. Also, of course, connection possibilities at either end at extremely limited.

How about this - AA has many early morning arrivals into MIA from Latin American destination, would there be connecting traffic to support a daylight flight? On the other hand, MIA (and all US airports) have become very user unfriendly for transit passengers due to the visa thing, so probably not.

I think you came to the correct conclusion, its not likely to happen.
 
Ricci767
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:06 am

Quoting LH423 (Reply 6):
There already is a MAN flight from MIA. It's operated by American Airlines and carries a BA codeshare. It operates with a 737-300ER during the Winter months.

A 737-300ER!!!???? I assume you mean a 767 but the thought of a 737ER certainly makes you think, like what would Ryanair do with some? I'd dread to think!
 
BOSPMV
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:30 am

MAH, as of right now, What is the MIA- Europe servcie, as In, how many daily flights to what cities on what airlines go out of MIA?
 
MAH4546
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:40 am

Quoting BOSPMV (Reply 23):
MAH, as of right now, What is the MIA- Europe servcie, as In, how many daily flights to what cities on what airlines go out of MIA?

This past winter timetable had 99 weekly flights...
AA 30w to MAD, CDG, LHR, MAN
LT 3w to MUC, DUS
LH 10w to MUC, FRA
AZ 7w to MXP
LX 5w to ZRH
LY 2w to TLV
AF 10w to CDG
BA 16w to LHR
AY 3w to HEL
MP 7w to AMS
IB 7w to MAD
a.
 
miaskies
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:01 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 24):
This past winter timetable had 99 weekly flights...

Don't forget EUROFLY's MXP-MIA-FPO-MIA service! It's back this winter...they had an article on it on MIA's website.


Will MyTravel's MIA flight return this winter? I did not hear much about it but did see the A333 a couple times at MIA this past winter.
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hawk44
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:44 am

I was wondering why does KLM not serve MIA? Also why does JAL or ANA not have service into MIA?

Hawk44
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MAH4546
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:47 am

Quoting Hawk44 (Reply 26):
I was wondering why does KLM not serve MIA?

KLM served Miami between 2001 and 2004. The yields are not very strong, so when KLM and Air France merged, Air France took over, since Miami-Paris is a strong yielding market. Also, Martinair Holland, which KLM owns a controlling stake in, flies a daily MIA-AMS service, and they offer really low fares that made it hard for KLM to compete.
a.
 
MAH4546
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:12 am

Well, BA updated their timetable last night, and, as of now, BA 204/205 will get a third weekly frequency, now operate MoTuSa, for 17 weekly MIA-LHR flights as of now.

BA 207 LHR 0940-1420 MIA 744 Daily
BA 209 LHR 1330-1815 MIA 744 Daily
BA 204 LHR 1500-1945 MIA 744 MoTuSa

BA 206 MIA 1710-0620 LHR 744 Daily
BA 208 MIA 2055-1005 LHR 744 Daily
BA 205 MIA 2155-1110 LHR 744 MoTuSa
a.
 
BOSPMV
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:26 am

Quoting Hawk44 (Reply 26):
Also why does JAL or ANA not have service into MIA

isn't MIA a little out their range, I don;t believe either of them have a 345 in their fleet.
 
dutchjet
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RE: BA: Third Daily MIA-LHR

Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:32 am

RE MIA-LHR - I am glad to see that the third daily flight (3 times per week instead of 2) will return, its only a matter of time until the 3rd flight goes daily for the winter schedule.

RE MIA-NRT - its a long and unproven segment, although the route would work especially when you consider the Latin American connections available at MIA......there were very strong rumors that AA was considering this route with 772 service, but it has not yet materialized.