KaiGywer
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 11182
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:59 am

Working In A Union Environment...question

Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:23 am

Hi there. I have applied to work for NW on the ramp, and I have a couple of questions. When I worked for XJ, I got to deal with NW rampers first hand, and they had this "union attitude" of it's not my job... If I get hired there, will I be left as an outsider, considering I like to work, and will help out when needed, or will management actually appreciate this so I might have a better chance whenever promotions etc come?
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
lnglive1011yyz
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Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:23 pm

RE: Working In A Union Environment...question

Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:26 am

Coming from a unionized job prior to my current job, I can offer this:

I was often ostracized (spelled right? Haha) for going above and beyond. The union guys had the attitude that if you worked hard, they'd make you work harder.

I take that kind of thing as a challenge, NOT a negative thing.

Not all union environments are like that. But be prepared for petty bickering over stupid little things.

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
m404
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:43 pm

RE: Working In A Union Environment...question

Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:55 pm

IF you do what is on paper as their job by signed contract, then you won't win a popularity contest.

Since NW is a closed shop, then were you hired as a scab to take the place of someone there? That is the key and you had better find out. Is it NAY mainline and will you be working the same flights on the same ramp as NW IM members OR is this job contingent on a labor problem like a strike? What were the conditions of your hire? I do not know if short term summer help has been given the OK to not be union members. Possibly. Just remember that it's pretty stressful right now and no-one knows what's coming.

You have to remember that you will have an airline full of people that are trying to protect their livelihood from being taken away from them. Arguments on the economic righteousness of that are unimportant now in your question. What you have to decide is what exactly were you hired for and if that is what you want. These are unsettling times indeed.

I do hope that all works out and you have an enjoyable experience. Please advise if this was a specific job offer or an open application from you? That would make all the difference. What city is involved if specified and is this a full time or part-time position. Why, I believe their are many laid off employees that would legally have first right on openings but some won't move for a part time position. We have to little information but we need the help during the summer. The work is defined and expected and individual attitudes unfortunately can't be controlled.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
KaiGywer
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 11182
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:59 am

RE: Working In A Union Environment...question

Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:09 am

I haven't gotten the job. I just applied for a permanent PT ramp position at MSP. I hope I get it though. I wanna get back into aviation, and I've actually applied with CO, UA, FL, F9, and DL as well. Hopefully I'll get one of them  Wink
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
luvfa
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 10:05 pm

RE: Working In A Union Environment...question

Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:22 am

If the job is for a replacement worker, don't take it. When the dust settles from whatever goes on there, it will be the end of your aviation career. Nobody gives any respect to a scab.

If it is a regular job, be the best worker you can be and hopefully you can make a difference!
 
m404
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Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:43 pm

RE: Working In A Union Environment...question

Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:52 am

In that case your worries are foundless as far as NW is concerned. As I said NW is a closed shop. That means that if you perform a job specified in established labor contracts you will join that union as a member. However, on re-reading your starter I see you are refering to a "union attitude" of your own interpretation.

I have seen some downright embarrassing work performance by fellow employees that are anything but inspiring that are brought about by nothing more than downright laziness and nothing to do with the union but more to do with bad management letting it happen. For one thing if you are equally embarrassing in your "I'll do it all" performance then don't be surprised if they just let you do that. For one thing, the folks who have been around a long time know how accidents happen. You will hear a phrase that means several things "work safe". Pay attention to what they are saying. Yes, it may even be a little maddening to have a youngster run circles around older workers who have worked together a long time and have sound methods and procedures to get things one. It's the independent spirit that really screws things up.

But to repeat, you will find simple laziness on the ramp, laziness that will find many excuses for it's existence including labor problems. You will be entering at a time that Union and Management seem to be at odds and the entire arena is in flux so watch yourself. It WAS a nice career for a long time but no-one knows what's coming except at lot will be lost that took many of us a long time to get.

Good Luck
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
jetdeltamsy
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Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: Working In A Union Environment...question

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:18 pm

NWA unions are nearly as militant, IMHO, as they were at Eastern. And we know what happened at Eastern.

You will probably be ostracized for going above and beyond. And don't bank on showing a little initiative giving you any advantage when it comes to being promoted.

My years with Eastern and Pan Am were great. But i much prefer the non-union envionment i work in at Delta. It's a much healthier mentality.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.

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