drerx7
Posts: 4218
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Houston Lobbying For India Service

Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:31 pm

I thought the Houston Airport System was going to sit by and give up the services to DFW--it looks like they are finally starting a push for Air India and Jet Airways to choose IAH over DFW for the proposed India flights.
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=73835
This will be an interesting battle-and I'm sure this thread will turn into another Houston vs. Dallas thread  box  let's just keep this round clean though folks  Silly
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
ssides
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:34 pm

It will be an interesting fight ... I wish they could work together and get one airline to serve DFW and the other to serve IAH.

This will be the first big test to see if DFW's new International Terminal D was worth it.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
drerx7
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:37 pm

I agree--I think that ultimately I think Air India will chose IAH and Jet will chose DFW.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
airbusfanyyz
Posts: 1410
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:58 pm

I would suspect that you'll see AI do a DEL-FRA-DFW-IAH initally with a move to separate flights for each city should demand warrant.

Cheers,
Kaz
 
jdaniel001
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:47 pm

Houston will keep stealing the international air service right from under DFW nose. Pakistan should have chosen DFW dangit!
We Are UNITED!
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:05 am

-"‘‘Houston has the largest concentration of Asian Indians in Texas. It is the location of one of the five Government of India Consular Offices in the US. So, the city deserves to have a direct connecting flight from India,’’ he said."-

Several good points in the article. I am glad they are finally noting these things to the airline. It is about time!

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Houston, First word spoken from the moon
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
N77014
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:05 am

IAH has much to offer a new entrant in the Indian market: a large and very wealthy Indian population, plenty of space in the int'l terminal (D), and close enough to either asia or europe to route a stopover. The only competition offered are via KL, LH, AF, or BA.
A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies...
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:15 am

I don't see the compieitition.

From my unbiased point of view, this is only Houston's to lose. Dallas isn't getting it. And it is Air India or Jet Airways to Texas, not both. Just my two cents.
a.
 
drerx7
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:21 am

I believe both Jet and Air India plan on servicing Texas--Are there some type of regulations in place that prevent both from servicing Texas? The Dallas market can support a route as well as they have a sizeable market; however I think Houston will win one if not both.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
jdaniel001
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:29 am

Okay....but everyone know that Dallas is the better of the two cities. They have the better airport, less Hurricanes, less humidity, and most of all the Cowboys! Big grin
We Are UNITED!
 
jacobin777
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:31 am

Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 4):
Houston will keep stealing the international air service right from under DFW nose. Pakistan should have chosen DFW dangit!

from what I know, Houston has a larger Pakistani base than Dallas does, though its a shame that even many Pakistani residents of Houston do not know that PK fly to their city.......

i'm working on getting on the first 777-200LR pax flight out of IHA to ISB... biggrin 
"Up the Irons!"
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:35 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 8):
I believe both Jet and Air India plan on servicing Texas--Are there some type of regulations in place that prevent both from servicing Texas?

There are no such regulations, but this isn't Chicago or New York City. One airline can do very well serving a Texas-India routes. Two airlines will just hurt each other.
a.
 
drerx7
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Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:54 am

Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 9):
Okay....but everyone know that Dallas is the better of the two cities. They have the better airport, less Hurricanes, less humidity, and most of all the Cowboys!

Thumbs down on Dallas--better airport ha, Cowboys double ha, I get along fine with the humidity. Round 1 has begun  box 

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
There are no such regulations, but this isn't Chicago or New York City. One airline can do very well serving a Texas-India routes. Two airlines will just hurt each other.

I agree to a certain extent--Dallas and Houston can each support an airline--not two in the same city though. Dallas and Houston are two separate markets--large markets at that, that are separated by 250 or so miles.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
N77014
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:00 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 12):
I agree to a certain extent--Dallas and Houston can each support an airline--not two in the same city though. Dallas and Houston are two separate markets--large markets at that, that are separated by 250 or so miles.

Agreed. Add to that the fact that especially in IAH, there is good european competition that you don't see in DFW. And a wraparound service won't work; two stops versus a one stop in a european hub?
A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies...
 
WesternA318
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:02 am

 box  Let's get it on!
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
mrniji
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:04 am

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 3):
I would suspect that you'll see AI do a DEL-FRA-DFW-IAH

for the matter of politeness, I will suggest to route the flight from MAA instead of DEL, coz otherwise TexDravid won't take it, eh? Big grin
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
MAH4546
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:07 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 12):
Dallas and Houston are two separate markets--large markets at that, that are separated by 250 or so miles.

This isn't a short RJ hop. When talking about international carriers, regions such as Dallas and Houston compete to a much greater scale. LAX affects SAN, EWR affects PHL, MIA affects MCO, etc., etc.
a.
 
drerx7
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:11 am

Dallasites are not going to drive to IAH to take a flight on Air India or Jet nor are Houstonians going to drive up to DFW. They'll just continue to take LH, BA, KL, or AF via onestops through Europe. Two separate markets.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
brons2
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:20 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 17):
Dallasites are not going to drive to IAH to take a flight on Air India or Jet nor are Houstonians going to drive up to DFW. They'll just continue to take LH, BA, KL, or AF via onestops through Europe. Two separate markets.

However, people from other parts of Texas will drive to one or the other based on non-stops available, or alternately, price, when speaking of international service.

(Hello from Austin)

My most recent solution was to fly WN to BWI and then BA BWI-LHR over the pond instead though, since I had Rapid Rewards credits. However, DFW-CDG was tempting at $509. AUS-IAH-LGW was $651 on CO. For a direct USA-India flight I'd be willing to go out of either DFW or IAH.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:30 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 17):
Dallasites are not going to drive to IAH to take a flight on Air India or Jet nor are Houstonians going to drive up to DFW. They'll just continue to take LH, BA, KL, or AF via onestops through Europe. Two separate markets.

No, they will fly to IAH or DFW and make a connection. I am not saying they are the same market, though in terms of how an international airline thinks, they are in the same region, and to an international airline, regions are the markets, not metro areas. That's why many European/Asian airlines lack service to Philadelphia, Orlando, Dallas, and Detroit, decent sized international travel markets - too bad that they are so close to Newark, Miami, Houston, and Chicago, respectively.
a.
 
himmat01
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:03 am

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 15):

for the matter of politeness, I will suggest to route the flight from MAA instead of DEL, coz otherwise TexDravid won't take it, eh?

btw, where is he? have not seen posts from him for ages.
An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
 
drerx7
Posts: 4218
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:13 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):

Not truly convinced that both airports could see service--but point well taken.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:31 am

Quoting Himmat01 (Reply 20):
btw, where is he? have not seen posts from him for ages.

4 days ago (July 2, 2005)

I first suspected him to be in the cooler, but probably he is just having a heart operation or eating idlis at the local shop  bigthumbsup  (Texi, no offence as you know)
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
IAH777
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:38 am

IAH's Term D (non-CO int'l arrivals/departures) basically goes unused except for the Eurorush between 1230 and 1600. If they can schedule a flight in the morning, there won't be the crush of other carriers' pax in the terminal. Even if they do decide to arrive amid the established int'l carriers, there's still room.

Personally, I'd love to see AI's tail among LH, KL, BA, PK and AF.
 
drerx7
Posts: 4218
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:50 am

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 23):
Personally, I'd love to see AI's tail among LH, KL, BA, PK and AF

It would make IAH look like the ORD or the LAX of the south. Save for MIA of course.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:01 am

>> Thumbs down on Dallas--better airport ha, Cowboys double ha, I get along fine with the humidity.

I'll only mention this point since you decided to scoff at God's team, but how many playoffs have the Oilers and Texans been to?  eyebrow 

Don't know of any Super Bowl rings when the likes of those two teams printed on them...


All in all... this is Houston's bid to lose. The last article on this topic indicated that Indian business owners in Houston were quite disappointed with how little the city had done to win the bid, while DFW was lobbying like hell, but it now appears that IAH is getting competitive.
 
drerx7
Posts: 4218
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:05 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 25):
I'll only mention this point since you decided to scoff at God's team, but how many playoffs have the Oilers and Texans been to?

Don't know of any Super Bowl rings when the likes of those two teams printed on them...

Touche Touche  boxedin 

Houston does have the upper hand in this battle--we'll see if HAS can seal the deal.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
IAH777
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:55 pm

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:21 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 25):
God's team

If the Cowpokes are "God's team", then why do they suck?  box  stirthepot  scratchchin  flamed 
 
N77014
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:24 am

Can we speculate on arrival/departure times? And what ethnic breakdoen does the Indian population in IAH/DFW have to convince one Indian destination over the other?
A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies...
 
ssides
Posts: 3248
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2001 12:57 am

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:34 am

Quoting N77014 (Reply 28):
And what ethnic breakdoen does the Indian population in IAH/DFW have to convince one Indian destination over the other

This will be minor. The key factor will be, and almost always is, business travel -- not people going home to see grandma.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
avek00
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:22 am

If a flight is run as a one-stop ex-IAH, I'd fully expect it to go via Heathrow and screw the hell out of Gatwick-confined players CO and BA.
Live life to the fullest.
 
shawnnyc
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:48 am

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:04 am

Houston and Dallas have similar sized Indian populations (hastens is marginally bigger). Austin would be third in Indian-American pop...don't Know if anyone in Austin would drive to Dallas. Eventually what ever Indian airline joins Oneworld, it will serve Dallas as it will need some service to India. Look to AI to chose IAH. The flight will go to BOM as the houston population is mostly from BOM/Gujarat areas.

And yes an Indian carrier should buy some slots at LHR and fly IAH-LHR-India.
 
toxtethogrady
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:48 am

The deal-clincher would be a code-share partner for AI. With Continental starting Newark-Delhi, perhaps they are the logical partner for Air India, which would tend to favor Houston and Air India joining SkyTeam.

Much as I don't like corporate bribery, a lot of smaller airports are doing it to bring in additional air service.
 
toxtethogrady
Posts: 1698
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2000 12:33 pm

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:51 am

"I'd fully expect it to go via Heathrow and screw the hell out of Gatwick-confined players CO and BA."

BA already goes IAH-ORD-LHR.
 
avek00
Posts: 3157
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:54 am

Quoting Toxtethogrady (Reply 33):
BA already goes IAH-ORD-LHR

I was referring to NONSTOP flights IAH-London - neither BA nor CO can fly nonstop IAH-LHR.
Live life to the fullest.
 
jdaniel001
Posts: 619
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:36 pm

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:22 pm

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 27):
If the Cowpokes are "God's team", then why do they suck?

Hey hey...be nice. Everyone knows that the hole in the roof of Texas Stadium is so that God can watch his favarite team! Besides, the new international terminal will start taking business away from IAH.
We Are UNITED!
 
Lt-AWACS
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2002 2:40 am

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:59 pm

Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 35):
Besides, the new international terminal will start taking business away from IAH.

What is your basis for that statement? Why would any foreign carrier want to switch due to a terminal when Houston is a bigger international market.
The terminal does not invent demand.

God can watch his favourite team lose LOL absurd....

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Seven continents down, none to go
Io voglio fica ogni giorni da mia bella moglie!
 
IAH777
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RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:26 pm

Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 35):
Everyone knows that the hole in the roof of Texas Stadium is so that God can watch his favarite team!

No, no, no...its to let the stink out.  Smile

Anyhoo...how, exactly, is DFW's D going to take IAH's business? BA runs - what? - ONE flight a day into DFW? *psst!* Don't tell anyone, but IAH has 20/week. And how's DFW's Air France flight doing? What's that? They don't?!? Hmm.... And KLM? Why, yes! IAH gets a daily 747 and a 763 every couple of days.

That Term D at DFW will come in handy for all those Aeromexico and Air Canada flights.  laughing  stirthepot 

OTOH, DFW does get Korean. Gotta give ya that.
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:31 pm

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 37):
OTOH, DFW does get Korean.

Cargo or pax? Big grin
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
thomasphoto60
Posts: 3713
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:04 pm

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:35 pm

Well it looks as if HAS and local officials are taking the DFW threat a little more seriously than I earlier thought. Let's hope that they keep up the mometum.

Since we are on the subject of air service to the Sub-Continenet, I am wondering what the numbers are looking like on PK's IAH operations?

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
drerx7
Posts: 4218
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:18 pm

Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 35):
Besides, the new international terminal will start taking business away from IAH.

I needed a laugh first thing this morning.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
COSPN
Posts: 1535
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:29 pm

CO will have 1 STOP SERVICE IN OCT..IAH-EWR-DEL ; DFW-EWR-DEL...

Gotta Love CO now all can be happy
 
N77014
Posts: 812
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:16 pm

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:58 pm

Quoting Ssides (Reply 29):
Quoting N77014 (Reply 28):
And what ethnic breakdoen does the Indian population in IAH/DFW have to convince one Indian destination over the other

This will be minor. The key factor will be, and almost always is, business travel -- not people going home to see grandma.

Since when is going to India, even on a leisure fare, cheap?
A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies...
 
COfaninBOS
Posts: 284
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 12:32 pm

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:34 am

Glad to hear that the HAS folks are starting to work with regards to Air India and Jet Airways.

Besides having a slightly larger Indian population base, Houston also has the Texas Medical Center, NASA, Port, and Energy related business on our side whereas DFW has the edge with regards to technology/communications businesses.
 
commavia
Posts: 9744
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:53 am

In my biased (DFW) opinion, I think DFW has a few things going for it.

While I agree that, at first glance, this is IAH's flight to lose because IAH has more flights to Europe than DFW, DFW does have a few advantages:

1) IAH's flights -- true, IAH does have more flights to Europe on more airlines (particularly from Europe) than DFW, but this may work against IAH. DFW has fewer flights, with fewer airlines, and thus more of an opening for a new entrant. If, for example, AI were to fly BOM-CDG-DFW, not only would they be supplementing AA in a market already underserved, but they would add a new airline into the DFW-Europe mix.

2) DFW Terminal D -- While IAH has also just opened a new International Terminal within the last year, DFW's Terminal D could be a big selling point as it is extremely well laid out, has tons of room to grow, and was designed largely in a post-9/11 world, making onward connections over DFW much easier for incoming AI customers arriving on flights from BOM or CDG, FRA, etc.

3) Incentives -- DFW's Airport Board loves giving away free stuff. They have tons of incentives programs they have come up with over the years, including their plan to move WN over to DFW Terminal E and basically pay their rent and fees for a year or two. From what I have read and heard, IAH is focusing more on getting AI service based on its market size and power, while DFW is focusing more on getting AI based on incentives and, essentially, bribery.

Whether DFW or IAH gets this service, it will be great for Texas. IMO, both cities could easily support direct flights to India, and especially DFW could definitely support another airline flying to Europe, and CDG in particular, which is an already underserved market in both passenger and cargo demand.

I wish both cities luck and look forward to seeing who wins!
 
IAH777
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:55 pm

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:06 am

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 38):
Cargo or pax?

Both, for all I know. Whatever they can cram into the cargo hold on a T7.

Regarding PK's IAH-MAN, did they finally get over that 5th freedom thingy? I wasn't aware one could fly IAH-MAN without continuing on.

BTW, "thingy" is an officially recognized, international aviation term. FYI
 
drerx7
Posts: 4218
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:19 am

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 45):
Regarding PK's IAH-MAN, did they finally get over that 5th freedom thingy? I wasn't aware one could fly IAH-MAN without continuing on

You weren't aware like so many others because PK's marketing for this service is NONEXISTENT. They act as if they don't want to carry passengers. Its my understanding that they do have 5th freedom. I'm sure that most people only know of PKs service to IAH because they saw the 777 at D or they saw the signage when drving up JFK or Will Clayton--even still they may have thought that was a codeshare.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
jr
Posts: 1043
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:15 am

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:16 am

Quoting Jdaniel001 (Reply 9):
Okay....but everyone know that Dallas is the better of the two cities. They have the better airport, less Hurricanes, less humidity, and most of all the Cowboys!

Go Cowboys. I do like the texans though... Wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that the original texans were the AFL's Dallas Texans (now known as the Kansas city chiefs). Hmmmm...

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 37):
No, no, no...its to let the stink out

Actually its to keep the stadium from reaching the resonance frequency of planes approaching 31R doing the stadium approach  Wink
I've flown on 9V-SPK.
 
n757kw
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:08 am

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:19 am

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 38):
Cargo or pax?

KE operates both passenger flights and cargo flight out of DFW.

PAX - 3 times a week with B777
Cargo - 7 times a week with B747F

N757KW
"What we've got here, is failure to communicate." from Cool Hand Luke
 
ssides
Posts: 3248
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2001 12:57 am

RE: Houston Lobbying For India Service

Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:24 am

KE is operating its pax DFW-ICN flights with a 744 during the summer.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!

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