colinatl
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:25 am

New Aircraft For Avianca?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:30 am

Does anyone know which aircraft Avianca is considering to upgrade their fleet? 787s? 737s? 777s? Airbus?
 
bongo
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:32 am

New Aircraft For Avianca?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:40 am

Kevin: First of all welcome to the Forum. Regarding your question, I'm afraid none of them. Just an undetermined number of ex AA Fokkers 100 , some MD 83's and 757's...that's it for now.
You can use the search bottom and you'll see all the discussion regarding AV and Colombian Aviation in General.
Bye.
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
Avianca
Posts: 5274
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

New Aircraft For Avianca?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:16 am

welcom in the forum Kevin!

Quoting Colinatl (Thread starter):
Airbus?

it would be great if Avianca would have a mix of 320family and 330/340 as the fleet, but if this ever happend than in some years. the most aircraft has still long leasing contracts.

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
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tavong
Posts: 688
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2001 1:59 am

New Aircraft For Avianca?

Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:05 pm

Quoting Colinatl (Thread starter):
Does anyone know which aircraft Avianca is considering to upgrade their fleet? 787s? 737s? 777s? Airbus?

Well at this time the answer is NO, unfortunately AV woun't be getting New Aircraft like the ones you say, i also would love to see an 737-NG in AV CVolors but that won't happen.....well have to wait and see the bunch of MD-80s still flying here quite a lot of time.


BTW, welcome to the forums, i expect you learn a lot of good things here.

Gus
SKBO
Just put me on any modern airliner and i will be happy, give me more star alliance miles and i will be a lot more happy.
 
danimarroquin
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:06 am

New Aircraft For Avianca?

Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:09 am

Two questions :

can Avianca operate 757-300 and 767-400 ?

What happened with Toronto and all the new routes.
 
RICARIZA
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:56 am

RE: New Aircraft For Avianca?

Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:30 am

Welcome to the forum!!!

There are many awesome news about our AVIANCA, regarding the fleet, Bongo already gave you the answer..

Bienvenido!
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
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tavong
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RE: New Aircraft For Avianca?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:31 am

Quoting Danimarroquin (Reply 4):
Two questions :

can Avianca operate 757-300 and 767-400 ?

What happened with Toronto and all the new routes.

Well 757-300 it's a strange option for AV in theory it's possible but due to the little airframes you find i think it won't be possible.

For 767-400 that was discussed before, in theory is the easier replacement for the actual 767-200/300 fleet but at the end the conclusion was that it's main problem is range, it won't do to Europe so it's not a valuable plane for AV, for their loung haul fleet he best choice could be the B772 but it's extremely expensive so the plane would be a choice.

Gus
SKBO
Just put me on any modern airliner and i will be happy, give me more star alliance miles and i will be a lot more happy.
 
EddieDude
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RE: New Aircraft For Avianca?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:52 am

Yeah, while the seating capacity of the 764ER (and commonality with -200's and -300's) are interesting for carriers like AM and AV, their limited range makes them useless airliners for flights out of MEX and BOG. I also believe the 772ER would be a good addition for AV in the future (and the 783 too).
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
RCS763AV
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RE: New Aircraft For Avianca?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:27 am

Quoting Danimarroquin (Reply 4):
What happened with Toronto and all the new routes.

YYZ and LAX rights are on place. AV is just waiting for an extra plane to start LAX and for the YYZ market to mature a little more, but the codeshare with AC is already in place. Its a rush to pass from 3xw A319 to 4xw A319 and 3xw 757 in one year.
 
av757
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RE: New Aircraft For Avianca?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:19 am

For a fleet change AV requested and will get presentations from Boeing and Airbus in the near future. Plans are to define by December of this year the modernization plan for its fleet change beginning 2009 thru 2013.

At the moment Boeing is working on an offer for twenty 737-700's and ten 787-8's; and Airbus is working on their offer for twenty A320's and ten A350's.

The idea is to replace the MD-83's in the short to medium range beginning 2009, and the B757/767 in the long haul range beginning 2011.

The A320 has left a sour memory here at AV from the VX experience with the type here in Colombia, its major weakness is; extremely expensive maintenance costs to operate the airplane on average 27 minute flights on an average of 12 landings a day short cycles to hot temperature, short runways and high altitude airports. High turn around times due to brake cooling of 45 minutes, compared to the MD-83's and B757/767 of 25 minutes on local shuttle flights. A330/340 still too large a volume of passenger capacity and to operate with restricted passenger loads out of BOG for the long haul flights of more than five hours in stage length, A350 still has too many loose ends and variables until a final design is defined by Airbus and comparatively speaking their promises on weight, fuel economy and range performance are still doubtful.

B737's are great proven high cycle short flight machines, have a better design life for this type of operation and maintenance costs are lower in the long run.

B757-300 is out of the question, very difficult to find and get available airframes, only very few built.

B767-400 is under powered for the operation of long haul flights out of BOG with too many restrictions and penalties.

AV757
 
Avianca
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RE: New Aircraft For Avianca?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:29 am

Quoting AV757 (Reply 9):
A330/340 still too large a volume of passenger capacity and to operate with restricted passenger loads out of BOG

is the 340 really restricted out of bogotá ? iberia and air france are operating full flights including full of cargo out of bog bound europe, and lufthansa in the past had operation to frankfurt what is some km more than cdg and mad....
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
soamsky
Posts: 293
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RE: New Aircraft For Avianca?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:42 am

Good news AV757,

It's about time Avianca blows the horn about upgrading equipment if it wants to become a major player in Latin America.

I hope Avianca sticks to Boeing for both short and long haul, this is just a matter of personal opinion. Also, adding to what AV757 said, it would have no presentation for Avianca to say the A320 is the best suitable plane for short haul after they blame this aircraft for Aces demise.
Soar the blue of the South American Sky
 
av757
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RE: New Aircraft For Avianca?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:42 am

The A340-200/300 series does not offer a good cargo capacity out of BOG, I have not seen IB and AF handling large loads and they are imposing strict luggage loads to operate out of BOG. It is extremely expensive to operate with the 250 seat configuration AV wants to offer in a two class layout.
 
Avianca
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RE: New Aircraft For Avianca?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:47 am

Quoting AV757 (Reply 12):
have not seen IB and AF handling large loads

I think 6 PMC with perishables + 4 AKE containers with other goods are not so bad for the A340, of course with a full aircraft they must offload 1 or 2 pmc but, under anyway they could transport still more cargo than on the 762 or 763 out of bogota on runs to europe
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
bogota
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:10 am

RE: New Aircraft For Avianca?

Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:44 pm

Would a 772 full load be able to operate on a ex-BOG Europebound flight? My understanding was that BA had analized the situation and it was not possible.
 
EddieDude
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RE: New Aircraft For Avianca?

Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:01 am

Hi Colombian friends! Very interesting post about Boeing and Airbus already working on a proposal, Captain Eduardo.

I did not know that the A32x was at such disadvantage with respect to the 737NG when it comes to short flights/high cycles operations. It is true what they say that one can learn new things everyday; even on Sundays. Based on Eduardo's post, I think the picture is pretty clear as to who should win the order (the imminence of the 787 and the sketchy specs of the A350 do not help Airbus either). Nevertheless, I wonder if AV could be interested in a mixed fleet and, by mixed fleet, I mean:

1. Something like EMB-195's or Bombardier C-Series airplanes for short, domestic routes;

2. The A319/A320 for routes that require more capacity and not so fast turnarounds. I understand that MX, who also operates from a high altitude airport, is very happy with the performance of its A32x's domestically and internationally and uses them in reasonably "longish" flights (like CCS, JFK, YVR). Airbus considers MX one of the top customers in terms of fleet utilization (i.e., keeping the airplanes on the air); and

3. 788's (and, perhaps, 772ER's) for long-haul service.

I am assuming that the A319/320 are the best alternative in terms of price, maintenance cost, payload and range for the job I described, but of course if Boeing can offer better performace and price, then I think the new AV livery would look fantastic in wingletted 73G's and 738's!
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
soamsky
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:41 am

RE: New Aircraft For Avianca?

Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:59 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 15):
I am assuming that the A319/320 are the best alternative in terms of price, maintenance cost, payload and range for the job I described,

Dude, you just read AV757 where he clearly states and explains why the A320 has a higher maintenance cost:

Quoting AV757 (Reply 9):
The A320 has left a sour memory here at AV from the VX experience with the type here in Colombia, its major weakness is; extremely expensive maintenance costs to operate the airplane on average 27 minute flights on an average of 12 landings a day short cycles to hot temperature, short runways and high altitude airports. High turn around times due to brake cooling of 45 minutes,



Quoting AV757 (Reply 9):
B737's are great proven high cycle short flight machines, have a better design life for this type of operation and maintenance costs are lower in the long run.

So, why, EddieDude, do you assume that the A320 is the best alternative in term of maintenance cost?
Soar the blue of the South American Sky