KL808
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AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:19 am

AA is very pleased with its new routes to MAN and SNN, so much so that it wants to increase routes to Europe. It also wants to install winglets on its B757 fleet. How many aircrafts would be fitted?

I would like to see AA operate to AMS.

Where do you think AA will open its next route?

Source www.justplanes.com

Drew
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
gkirk
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:23 am

Strongly rumoured that AA will announce JFK-NCL using 757s on 27th July.
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PRAirbus
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:33 am

Where did you hear they would install winglets on their 757s??? I heard they would refurbish First Class for longhaul...nothing about changes to the airframe.
 
KL808
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:36 am

check out the link I provided on top.

Drew
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
EmiratesUK
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:41 am

Its been reported in the press on on our local news that BHX is requesting AA to re-start the ORD-BHX-ORD so fingers crossed we may see BHX on the route map again.
EK A380 Private suite - Here I come!!
 
B742
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:51 am

Quoting EmiratesUK (Reply 4):
Its been reported in the press on on our local news that BHX is requesting AA to re-start the ORD-BHX-ORD so fingers crossed we may see BHX on the route map again.

This would be excellent news! What aircraft would possibly return the route, 763, 762, 752? (Could a full loaded 752 make it from ORD-BHX-ORD?)

EmiratesUK - Do you know what happend to Gulf Traveller at BHX?

Quoting KL808 (Thread starter):
Where do you think AA will open its next route?

I think if AA act quickly and introduce NCL before CO, maybe they would have a good money earning route!

What about making BOS-MAN yearly, could MIA-MAN work in the summer?

Rob!
 
atmx2000
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:03 am

ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
KL808
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:03 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 5):
What about making BOS-MAN yearly, could MIA-MAN work in the summer?

this could work, but can a B757 make that route without any penalties?

Drew
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
commavia
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:27 am

I could definitely envision AA making work:

From BOS:
CDG (757 during winter)
DUB
GLA
MAN (757 year-round)

From JFK:
AMS
BCN
BHX
DUS
GLA
LIS
NCL

From MIA:
BEL
BSB
COR
FOR
MAO
NAT
NAT
REC
SSB

From ORD:
BHX
 
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ERJ170
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:30 am

Quoting KL808 (Reply 7):
but can a B757 make that route without any penalties

What are the penalties? How do they change the range? Is it direction or location sensitive?
Aiming High and going far..
 
boeingbus
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:33 am

I believe a BOS - LIS would do very well here. I guess its my wishful thinking...

Cheers!

Ric
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pzurita1
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:36 am

I could see AA starting flight to TLC (as an alternative to MEX).

CO and Air Madrid have started flying there as well. Being AA the largest airline in Mexico-USA market, I do not see why they wouldn't be flying to this growing airport (at least 3 new airlines are starting operations there)

PZ
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MGA
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:39 am

Anybody know if the plans for DFW-MGA went through?

MGA
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ckfred
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:40 am

I think AA has something in excess of 100 757s, not including the ex-TW planes which will be returned to lessors as leases expire.

I could see AA going the winglet route on the 757. The reason AA hasn't installed winglets on the 737-800s, besides cost, it that the wingspan increases from 112 feet to 117 feet. At some airports, that decrease the number of gates that can accept a 737 for parking.

On the other hand, a 757 has a wingspan of 124 feet, without winglets. So adding 5 or 6 feet for winglets doesn't create the parking problems as putting winglets on the 737s would.

AA was planning to start ORD-AMS service in the spring of 2002, but that plan was dropped after September 11th. AA was also looking to obtain route authority to Moscow from ORD. Could these be potential expansion routes?
 
plunafan
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:45 am

AA is going to restart MIA-MVD non-stop 3x during USA winter, but, due to the excellent loads last USA winter, AA is planning MIA-MVD Daily or 3x all year.
 
abirda
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:46 am

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 2):
I heard they would refurbish First Class for longhaul

In the AA in Boston thread a few days ago, the consensus seemed to be that the old domestic first seats would be replaced with something similar to the BA premium economy seat (for reference, see the premium economy seat on offer from Recaro). That seat offers more amenities and comfort that domestic first as we know it in the US, but less amenities and comfort than true international business class. It would be a good fit for the 757 refurbish.

I have to add that AA should seriously consider replacing the current economy seats in 757s that will be flying international. The seats, even when recovered in the current AA standard seat fabric are too old. Their padding is broken down; it would be a source of endless complaints on these longest of 757 flights. I'm not suggesting anything new, just replace them with the same seats found in MD-80s and 738s.

Quoting B742 (Reply 5):
This would be excellent news! What aircraft would possibly return the route, 763, 762, 752? (Could a full loaded 752 make it from ORD-BHX-ORD?)

Boeing quotes the range of a standard 752 without winglets as 3,900nm. Great Circle Mapper shows ORD-BHX at 3365nm. It would seem that the 757 could make that flight with a full load, though I suppose both directions year around could be questionable. Obviously the 763 could handle it regardless, but AA is chronically short of them and you would not be likely to see them start that route.
 
bobnwa
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:56 am

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 13):
Being AA the largest airline in Mexico-USA market,

Are you sure about this? I would think CO.
 
commavia
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:02 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 16):
Are you sure about this? I would think CO.

Nope. It is, indeed, AA. AA has more seats, and carries more people, to Mexico than CO or any other U.S. carrier.
 
SESGDL
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:03 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 16):
Are you sure about this? I would think CO.

CO is the US largest airline from Mexico-USA. AA is a close 2nd.

Jeremy
 
commavia
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:04 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 18):
CO is the US largest airline from Mexico-USA. AA is a close 2nd.

Sorry, but no. See reply 17.
 
cx750
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:10 am

Commavia is correct, AA has the most capacity, but CO wins on frequencies:

AA freq/330 asms/44,666,809
CO freq/622 asms/43,731,591
 
777klm
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:19 am

Quoting KL808 (Thread starter):
I would like to see AA operate to AMS.



Quoting Commavia (Reply 8):
From JFK:
AMS

I also wish to see AA at AMS, but would the NYC-AMS route be efficient, now KL, NW(codeshare), DL and CO are operating this route?! By-the-way, does anybody know why there are two CO flights from EWR-AMS per day (CO102 & CO70)?!
Next flight: AMS - BCN - EZE
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:32 am

There are no plans to resume ORD-BHX, but AA is looking at JFK-BHX with 757s.
a.
 
abirda
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:34 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
no plans to resume ORD-BHX, but AA is looking at JFK-BHX with 757s.

Much more sensible in terms of resources available and management of yields in my opinion.
 
Jetter2
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:38 am

I remember when I used to travel with dad, we would go to Moscow about every 3 weeks for 10 days at a time. We'd always ride an AAL 767, or a DC10 to FRA, then it would always be either Lufthansa or Aeroflot to Moscow. I think a Moscow route..even from just ORD would be a step in the right direction for AA.
 
dutchjet
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:38 am

Of course AA wants to increase international routes, that is where the money is, international is much more interesting at the moment than domestic, none of those annoying LCCs to deal with.

And, what better way to do it - use our existing 757s and send them across the Atlantic - if CO can do it, why cant American?

But, there is a difference, CO operates its 757s out of EWR to smaller cities in Europe - the 757 has the right size and right economics and just enough range for the routes. However, CO's operations are based in EWR which is in a very good geographical position for such operations, EWR has very strong O&D traffic from NYC, and CO just happens to have a very powerful hub at EWR that allows connections throughout the US and beyond, and CO has very carefully picked its European destinations going mainly for cities where there is little competition and no other nonstop service to the US.

These four factors work together and make CO "757 trick" work out well - AA is dealing with different circumstances. From what US city are they going to base their 757 transatlantic operations - Boston - Boston is not an AA hub and limited connections are available except for flights to other AA hubs or the key west coast cities, or JFK - AA does not have much feed at JFK (except for transcon services and a few regional flights) and the new transatlantic flights will have to work almost strictly on O&D, or maybe AA will base the 757s at Chicago, but the cities in Europe that can be reached out of ORD with a fully loaded 757 are rather limited, its probably just Ireland, the UK and maybe (a big maybe) some cities in the Beleux. And, to which cities in Europe will AA fly its 757s to? There is really little need for another JFK-AMS flight or other such flights if those flights have to work solely on O&D traffic and even a JFK-NCL flight may not work because not all passengers out of NCL are going to JFK, they need connections throughout the US......you dont really think that pax from NCL will fly AA to JFK and then get into a taxi to go to LGA to pick up a connection to a Florida city or Chicago? And, while talking about JFK, remember DL, they will certainly give AA a fight on these routes.

It sounds like a good plan, but its not as simple as it looks.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:44 am

Would RDU-FRA work on a modified 757?

*Modified meaning 3 class with first (4 seats across), business (5 seats across), and coach (6 rows across)? With the winglets, would it work?
Aiming High and going far..
 
rjpieces
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:47 am

From JFK:
AMS
BCN
BHX
DUS
GLA
LIS
NCL


Looking at the gigantic size of the new AA terminal at JFK yesterday, I couldn't help the thought that AA will expand JFK-Europe routes in the coming years.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
commavia
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:50 am

Dutchjet--while you make good points, don't underestimate the market presence of AA in the New York area. Even with CO having a hub at EWR, AA still carries 17.1% of all New York area traffic, compared with 22.1% for CO. AA is huge in the New York area and has tons of high-value corporate accounts and lucrative travel agency accounts as well. AA also has an enormous AAdvantage frequent flyer community in New York, especially on Long Island. The tristate area probably has almost as high an AA FF concentration as ORD or MIA. In addition, AA does offer some connections over JFK timed for European flights, from DFW, BOS, DCA, LAX, SFO, SAN, MIA, STL, RDU, CLE, SJU, SDQ, CCS, YYZ, YUL, YHZ, etc. With all of this together, I think AA could definitely make 757s work on several routes from JFK to a few large, but still under-served, European cities.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 5:22 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 26):
Would RDU-FRA work on a modified 757?

*Modified meaning 3 class with first (4 seats across), business (5 seats across), and coach (6 rows across)? With the winglets, would it work?

Never in there right mind would AA ever modify 757s to a three class configuration. And four across first on a 757? You can't put in a first-class product in a 757 at four-across. Even if the 757 had the range (which it doesn't for RDU-FRA, even with winglets), RDU-FRA would likey not work. It would work better as a 2-class operation, but that is still to thin an operation that would rely entirely on O&D, which is not there.
a.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 5:51 am

If AA started flights from DFW to CCS, BOG and SCL we would be happy. Or flights from ORD to BOG and CCS. The 757s are perfect for this, even 738s on some legs.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 5:54 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 29):
And four across first on a 757? You can't put in a first-class product in a 757 at four-across.

Indeed. Four across is more of an international Biz product. Long-haul international First would be three across.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
 
dutchjet
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:03 am

Commavia - thanks for your comment, I do realize the power of New York and AA has a good base in the NYC area (I grew up in NYC), but I think you realize that my main point was that AA expanding to Europe with some 757s is not going to be simple and there is some risk. I now live in Europe most of the year and it really gives you a different perspective on things, CO's major strength as far as Europeans are concerned is that CO can get you not only to NYC (where, true, lots of people want to go), but CO can also get you just about anywhere important via EWR with one easy stopover/connection.

AA's approach at JFK has been rather odd, at one time, they had many more domestic connections on both mainline and Eagle, many of which have been dropped and added and dropped over the years - if AA is serious about this Europe thing from JFK (which is a big IF, we are assuming that JFK is part of the program) maybe they will add more domestic connections at JFK once again.

Regards.......
 
N77014
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:09 am

Quoting MGA (Reply 12):
Anybody know if the plans for DFW-MGA went through?

MGA

Once a day on a B738? CO does it from IAH daily, and it is a moneymaker.

Quoting 777klm (Reply 21):
I also wish to see AA at AMS, but would the NYC-AMS route be efficient, now KL, NW(codeshare), DL and CO are operating this route?! By-the-way, does anybody know why there are two CO flights from EWR-AMS per day (CO102 & CO70)?!

To free up a B777 for EWR-Asia service (PEK) especially, and to move EWR- Europe service to a 2 bank system, offering frequency and capacity
improvements to customers transiting EWR ex Europe. You may see up to 4 CO aircraft at AMS at a given time, B764's and B762's from IAH and EWR, not counting up to twice daily IAH-AMS service on KL and the BBJ premium service soon to come on KL.


Also, ther B777 was moved to FRA as well, to offer more premium seats and freight capacity, in a market where frequency was not as pressing.

[Edited 2005-07-08 23:10:34]
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rjpieces
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:11 am

AA's approach at JFK has been rather odd, at one time, they had many more domestic connections on both mainline and Eagle, many of which have been dropped and added and dropped over the years - if AA is serious about this Europe thing from JFK (which is a big IF, we are assuming that JFK is part of the program) maybe they will add more domestic connections at JFK once again.

AA has most of the important cities covered. No, they can't get you from Berlin to Kansas City via EWR like Continental can. But as Commavia mentioned, they have the most important cities well covered. Also, JFK offers a shitload of connections on other airlines, especially with the rise of JetBlue. Believe it or not, JFK has more connecting passengers than EWR does.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:18 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 34):
Also, JFK offers a shitload of connections on other airlines, especially with the rise of JetBlue. Believe it or not, JFK has more connecting passengers than EWR does.

I believe it. But flying AA to JFK and then continuing on JetBlue (or vice versa) or some other airline is never a bad idea. If AA is late and you miss your connection, you are completely unprotected. Not having connecting flights on the same ticket is the travel equivalent of having unprotected sex with someone you just met. You're probably going to be ok, but you never know...
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
 
dutchjet
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:22 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 34):


AA has most of the important cities covered. No, they can't get you from Berlin to Kansas City via EWR like Continental can. But as Commavia mentioned, they have the most important cities well covered. Also, JFK offers a shitload of connections on other airlines, especially with the rise of JetBlue. Believe it or not, JFK has more connecting passengers than EWR does.

I dont want to argue, but saying that AA has most important cities covered from JFK is an overstatement, where is Chicago (AA hub), Houston, Atlanta, St Louis (AA hub), Orlando, Fort Lauderdale, Minneapolis, New Orleans, Denver, Phoenix, Las Vegas, and a host of other cities that business and leisure travellers want to go to? AA out of JFK is primarily about longhaul domestic (west coast) and Europe and the carib/latin America.

And, while JetBlue offers service to many cities out of JFK, I do not expect to see any joint marketing agreement between AA and JetBlue - realistically, do you think pax are going to book an AA flight to JFK and then look for their own connections on other airlines to other cities. JetBlue may be very popular in NYC, but the average European does not have a clue as to what JetBlue is or where they fly to.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:29 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 29):
Even if the 757 had the range (which it doesn't for RDU-FRA, even with winglets), RDU-FRA would likey not work

So decreasing the number of seats to make the aircraft a bit lighter and adding winglets would not add enough range for RDU-FRA? THAT is my question.. not whether AA would do it.. I'm sure they won't do it..

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 29):
that is still to thin an operation that would rely entirely on O&D, which is not there.

I think RDU-FRA averages between 270-330 daily (mostly business) passengers.. granted, some of them could be on the RDU-LGW flight.. but since it is subsidized, load factor on that flight shouldn't much matter..
Aiming High and going far..
 
B742
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:31 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
There are no plans to resume ORD-BHX, but AA is looking at JFK-BHX with 757s.

Wouldn't ORD or BOS make more sense to operate to BHX than JFK! NYC is already taken over by CO which has 2 daily EWR 752 flights!

Quoting AbirdA (Reply 15):
Obviously the 763 could handle it regardless, but AA is chronically short of them and you would not be likely to see them start that route.

What about maybe using a 762?

Can AA take some 762's from the desert and use them on some International flights and maybe replace some 763's and 752's on domestic routes, which will then free up some aircraft for international flights?

Rob!
 
commavia
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:31 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 37):
I think RDU-FRA averages between 270-330 daily (mostly business) passengers.. granted, some of them could be on the RDU-LGW flight.. but since it is subsidized, load factor on that flight shouldn't much matter

I could be wrong, but I don't think the number of daily RDU-FRA passengers is anywhere near 270-330.

Quoting B742 (Reply 38):
What about maybe using a 762?

762s are now solely on JFK-LAX/SFO, JFK-BDA, and JFK-MIA. All 14 of them have been isolated at JFK, and won't ever be flying outside of that basic rotation again. The 762s will probably be around for another 10-15 years before they are replaced (probably with 787s, IMO).

Quoting B742 (Reply 38):
Can AA take some 762's from the desert and use them on some International flights and maybe replace some 763's and 752's on domestic routes, which will then free up some aircraft for international flights?

The 762s in the desert are never coming back. AA is, as we speak, in the process of working out their disposal. They'll be Coke cans shortly.

[Edited 2005-07-08 23:34:00]
 
TUNisia
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:38 am

I'd love to see re-start the TWA routes of JFK-TLV, JFK-CAI... but they need more 777s.
Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
 
B742
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:41 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 39):
762s are now solely on JFK-LAX/SFO, JFK-BDA, and JFK-MIA. All 14 of them have been isolated at JFK, and won't ever be flying outside of that basic rotation again. The 762s will probably be around for another 10-15 years before they are replaced (probably with 787s, IMO).

Oh I see, thanks!  Smile What about the A300's, will they ever see European service again, I once flew JFK-LHR on an AA A300?

Quoting Commavia (Reply 39):
The 762s in the desert are never coming back. AA is, as we speak, in the process of working out their disposal. They'll be Coke cans shortly.

That's a shame!  Sad

Quoting TUNisia (Reply 40):
I'd love to see re-start the TWA routes of JFK-TLV, JFK-CAI... but they need more 777s.

I agree, AA have two 772's coming next year, but they plan to be used to Asia!

If only TWA was still around  Smile

Rob!
 
commavia
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:42 am

Quoting TUNisia (Reply 40):
I'd love to see re-start the TWA routes of JFK-TLV, JFK-CAI... but they need more 777s.

Even with 777s, neither will probably see AA metal anytime soon. AA will won't be landing a plane anywhere in the Arab world that is big, shiny, and has "American" painted on the site of it. It might as well say "Please Bomb Here." As for TLV, AA doesn't want to land there as there is still huge animosity over what happened to the ex-TWA employees and the Israeli government may impound a plane if they don't get what they want. In addition, AA can easily connect passengers to TLV over LHR with BA, or over ZRH with LX.
 
abirda
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:43 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 38):
What about maybe using a 762?

Can AA take some 762's from the desert and use them on some International flights and maybe replace some 763's and 752's on domestic routes, which will then free up some aircraft for international flights?

Rob!

The only active 762s at AA are their newest (still quite old) ER frames, all of which are set up in a special domestic 3-class configuration inside (one that is not up to international standards). These are used to their maximum on JFK-LAX/SFO trans-cons, with an occaisional turn elsewhere to up the utilization instead of losing money on the ground. Aside from that, AA is rather gun-shy of selling 3 class service on all but the most lucrative routes, making these aircraft and the ones mentioned below unlikely to see internatioinal work.

All the rest of AA's 762s are somewhat older, mostly non-ER frames with considerable cycles and hours racked up. They are sitting in the desert, and there is no way they will return to service with AA or anyone else. These frames will be scrapped (some may have met their maker already).

The only 763s running domestic segments are positioning flights and utilization flights. It would not really accomplish anything to try and replace these select segments with 762s.

Quoting B742 (Reply 41):
Oh I see, thanks!   What about the A300's, will they ever see European service again, I once flew JFK-LHR on an AA A300?

The A300s will remain confined to high density lift to Latin America where their freight capacity is used to the best advantage possible. They will never be configured as 3 class aircraft or flown trans-atlantic again (they now contain high density economy and just a few domestic first seats). Their temporary stint in trans-atlantic routes was a fluke anyway. American only used them as a stop gap measure when they stopped taking MD-11s and couldn't receive 777s yet.

EDIT: You beat me to a lot of these remarks, Commavia! Gotta speed up my typing.

[Edited 2005-07-08 23:49:41]
 
vegasplanes
Posts: 656
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:22 pm

RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:47 am

To Commavia:

Question: What was the size of the original AA 762 fleet?

The 762's that are in the desert, it is my understanding that those were the ex-TWA models acquired through the merger. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Thank You
 
TUNisia
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:51 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 42):
AA doesn't want to land there as there is still huge animosity over what happened to the ex-TWA employees and the Israeli government may impound a plane if they don't get what they want.

The reason for pulling was purely political, no? That route (JFK-TLV) was very very profitable. TWA was flying to Israel before Israel was even recognized as a country (prior to 1948).

TEL AVIV (JTA) -- American Airlines said it would halt TWA's flights between New York and Tel Aviv if it takes over the bankrupt airline because the route is not profitable.

However, Israeli travel agents and TWA workers in Israel disputed the unprofitability claim, saying they suspect political motives behind the move.

TWA employees in here said that they have been receiving hundreds of telephone calls, some from passengers with millions of frequent flyer miles, in concern over the report that if American Airlines does buy TWA it will suspend flights to Israel.

TWA, which has been operating under Chapter 11 bankruptcy since January, is to be sold at an auction. American is considered the leading bidder with a bid of $500 million. A bankruptcy court in Delaware is to consider the case today.

TWA employees in Israel have appealed to American Jewish leaders, asking them to intervene and hinting that the American decision could stem from some sort of boycott. The workers say that in 1999, the New York-Tel Aviv route earned profits of $10 million and in 2000, $8.5 million, despite a fourth-quarter drop in tourism to Israel.


Quoting B742 (Reply 41):
If only TWA was still around

Yes, if only. If they were still around I'd be flying them NS to CAI from JFK instead of BOS-LHR-ZRH-CAI, but at least I get to fly on LX.
Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
 
rjpieces
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:53 am

I believe it. But flying AA to JFK and then continuing on JetBlue (or vice versa) or some other airline is never a bad idea. If AA is late and you miss your connection, you are completely unprotected. Not having connecting flights on the same ticket is the travel equivalent of having unprotected sex with someone you just met. You're probably going to be ok, but you never know...

Haha, thanks for the analogy!  Smile

Well, of course it's not as easy as checking your bags all the way through...However, in many cases, the cheap fares of B6 and Song make it worthwhile. On my last international flight into JFK, there were people connecting on B6 to Denver, AA to BOS and DCA, Independence Air to IAD, Delta to Charlotte and Atlanta. If the price is right, people will do it.

762s are now solely on JFK-LAX/SFO, JFK-BDA, and JFK-MIA. All 14 of them have been isolated at JFK, and won't ever be flying outside of that basic rotation again. The 762s will probably be around for another 10-15 years before they are replaced (probably with 787s, IMO).

How long have they been on JFK-BDA and MIA?

As for TLV, AA doesn't want to land there as there is still huge animosity over what happened to the ex-TWA employees and the Israeli government may impound a plane if they don't get what they want. In addition, AA can easily connect passengers to TLV over LHR with BA, or over ZRH with LX.

I forget who said it, but somebody mentioned a few weeks ago that AA is looking at starting service from somewhere in South America-MIA-TLV. However, as you mentioned, AA would need to resolve the issues with the pensions of the ex-TWA employees.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
commavia
Posts: 9626
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:54 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 41):
What about the A300's, will they ever see European service again, I once flew JFK-LHR on an AA A300?

No. The A300s will never again ply the Atlantic. They are now being completely concentrated in Latin America, and from next February will serve only four mainland U.S. cities -- JFK, MIA, BDL and MCO. They mainly fly the "Roach Coach" flights to high-volume Caribbean markets like PAP, SDQ, STI, SJU, etc., and a few Latin America routes (MIA-LIM/SJO/MEX/CCS, etc.). Their days flying to LHR, LGW and CDG are, however, over.

Quoting B742 (Reply 41):
That's a shame!

It really is. Those 762s were tough, hardworking planes. But, they are very old now, very maintenance-intensive, and not as reliable as they once were.

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 44):
What was the size of the original AA 762 fleet?

30. 22 were 767-200ERs and 8 were 767-200s. One was destroyed on 9/11 flying as flight 11 BOS-LAX. After 9/11, when the 762s were pulled of longhaul routes, all of the remaining ERs were converted to standard 767-200s. Then, in 2003 IIRC, AA parked 13 of the remaining 29 762s, leaving only 16 (I was wrong before) that are now still in operation on the previously said routes.

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 44):
The 762's that are in the desert, it is my understanding that those were the ex-TWA models acquired through the merger. Please correct me if I am wrong.

No. The TWA 767-200s (and -300, for that matter) were returned to lessors and are long gone off to greener pastures (or aluminum scrap heaps). All the AA 762s in the desert (Roswell, NM, IIRC) are all nAAtive 762s originally delivered to AA in the early 1980s. A few of them were sold in 2003 or 2004 to Capital Cargo, but most -- I think 11 or 12 -- are getting scrapped.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 46):
How long have they been on JFK-BDA and MIA?

Years.

[Edited 2005-07-08 23:55:04]

[Edited 2005-07-08 23:55:34]
 
cloud4000
Posts: 475
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:56 am

It's interesting to note how far both CO and EWR have come. Once small and inconsequenitial, they have become powerhouses rivalling JFK.
Boston, USA
 
abirda
Posts: 296
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RE: AA Wants To Increase International Routes

Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:59 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 47):
all of the remaining ERs were converted to standard 767-200s

I had no idea! I figured all the frames in service were still to the ER specification. Does a non-ER plane have a lower OEW weight in the case of a converted 762?

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