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NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:00 am

Now that the board have approved this I can confirm that we will indeed keep our 8th 744 ZK-SUH. The 10 year lease was up in March next year, but has been extended for 5 years to take advantage of the new arrangements re access to the UK. The other option was to lease an additional 772, but cost wise it made more sense to keep SUH.

Also, ZK-SUH will DEFINITELY be receiving the upgraded cabin. I will keep you all posted as to a definite upgrade date.

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NZAA
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:12 am

That is great news for the company, do you know if a 777 will ever opperate on the Auckland-Rarotonga route?
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:19 am

Quoting NZAA (Reply 1):
do you know if a 777 will ever opperate on the Auckland-Rarotonga route

Could RAR handle a 777? I know I flew in a 767 and on take off we used all of the runway. Is the 777 different?
 
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:29 am

I don't think you will see a 777 on the AKL-RAR route, no.

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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:32 am

Yeah,

While it's not going to be scheduled, I'm sure the cooks could take a 777. I departed there before in a 747 of NZ's.
 
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:44 am

Quoting NZ1 (Thread starter):
...to take advantage of the new arrangements re access to the UK.

Have the board made any decisions about what will be the second UK route? Can we expect any 777's to Brisbane or Nadi during December and January during their lay over in Auckland? Also, will the NZ20/21 route eventually be upgraded to the 777?
What is the main maintenance problem you guys have with SUH?


Cheers
 
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:55 am

NZ747,

I can't elaborate any further on anything to do with the UK. I hope you understand where I am coming from. All I can say is, yes, decisions have been made, and no, I can't tell you anything....yet.

You can expect to see 777's in BNE, yes, NAN, not sure at this stage.

With reagrds to NZ20/21, not sure yet. Will update when I do know for sure.

ZK-SUH, doesn't seem to have any one problem. It just seems like that when something is going to go wrong or break, ZK-SUH is the one who suffers it. Jinxed for some reason.

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Kiwi dave
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:51 pm

Good news that SUH is remaining in the fleet.

Can CHC expect to see the 777s this summer?
 
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:34 pm

8 744s, are there 3 RB211-powered models and 5 CF6s?
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:05 pm

AirxLiban, that is correct:

-NBS, -NBT and -NBU are RR powered.
-NBV, -NBW, -SUH, -SUI and -SUJ are GE powered.

Also for your information:

-NBS, -NBT, -NBU and -NBV are all 747-419s owned by the airline.

-NBW, -SUH, -SUI and -SUJ are all leased from ILFC
-NBW is a 747-419, built for Air New Zealand.
-SUH is a 747-475, built for Canadian, but not taken up and flew originally with Varig.
-SUI is a 747-441, originally in service with Varig.
-SUJ is a 747-4F6, built for Philippine Airlines, but not taken up.

V/F

[Edited 2005-07-10 08:19:48]
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:21 pm

Quoting NZ747 (Reply 5):
Can we expect any 777's to Brisbane or Nadi

I cant see any NAN 777's scheduled in the Route allocations.
There will be some Promotional flying that will take place before the 10th October. Then it will fly the following to start with from the information I have at the moment.

1st 777 ZK-OKA will fly the following starting 10th Oct
NZ121/2 AKL-MEL-AKL Monday, Wednesday, Friday
NZ139/130 AKL-BNE-AKL daily, NZ131/132 Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday.

2nd 777 ZK-OKB Starting 17th Oct
NZ101/2 AKL-SYD-AKL daily
NZ105/6 AKL-SYD-AKL daily

Long Haul 777 flying starts 30 Oct dedicated to SFO NZ8/7.

3rd 777 ZK-OKC Starting 1 Jan 06
Tasman Training flying 01-25 Jan 06
I understand SIN will become dedicated 777 route starting 25 Jan 06

767 retirements are scheduled for
ZK-NCH Jul 06
ZK-NCO Oct 06

And of course I have to mention all of this information is subject to change due the arrival of the T7's and 744 retrofit program and is a proposed plan.

777 will start AKL-NRT-AKL flying in Mar 06

Good news also on SUH

Cheers
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:21 pm

Just a bit off topic, can any one of you guys tell me what a/c are flying certain routes? on certain dates intl and dom?
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:26 pm

Hi NZ1,

What are NZ's ETOPS restrictions on the AKLSFO route with the 777's? How many minutes to an alternate on one engine?
 
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:30 pm

Quoting NZ767 (Reply 12):
What are NZ's ETOPS restrictions on the AKLSFO route with the 777's? How many minutes to an alternate on one engine?

Offhand I couldn't tell you the exact details, but I believe the 777 has 207 min ETOPS clearance. Alternate airports are NAN, HNL and Johnson Atoll (soon to be closed I think)

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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:33 pm

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 13):
Johnson Atoll (soon to be closed I think)

I was under the impression a group of airlines who relied on it for making their trans-pacific routes ETOPSable were grouping together to keep that field open (unless I'm confusing islands here...)?

V/F
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:46 pm

Thanks NZ1,

Maybe they have decided to keep Johnston Island available as an alternate. That's the sort of decision that could well have influenced NZ into going with the 777.

Virginflyer, I think the was Midway Island as an alternate on US-Asia routes.
 
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:31 am

I am surprised that NZ B777 has reduced seat pitch. The seat pitch is 32" instead of 34" in Economy class.
 
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:39 pm

Westjet!Eh! - yeah, on one hand it is a bit of a shame it doesn't have the same seat pitch as the 747. On the other hand, the 767s at the moment have 32" pitch, and since it is these aircraft that the 777s will be replacing, it isn't really a reduction at all...

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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:05 pm

The seats may have 2" less than the 744 but they are a fair bit wider than the new 34" 744 pitch... It's a good compromise..
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:49 pm

Quoting NZ1 (Thread starter):
The 10 year lease was up in March next year, but has been extended for 5 years to take advantage of the new arrangements re access to the UK.

And a too good to refuse price reflecting a sound client and current soft market for passenger 744's!
 
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:52 pm

Quoting PlaneSmart (Reply 19):
And a too good to refuse price reflecting a sound client and current soft market for passenger 744's!

Yes, that too  Smile

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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:55 am

Quoting NZ1 (Thread starter):
has been extended for 5 years to take advantage of the new arrangements re access to the UK.

I am surprised that this statement did not prompt a considerable number of postings how NZ might use this extra capacity into the UK market. A separate question, is there a period within each 24-hours that LHR is not capacity constrained? Also is the constraint gate availability or is it takeoff/landing?
 
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:59 am

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 6):
I can't elaborate any further on anything to do with the UK. I hope you understand where I am coming from. All I can say is, yes, decisions have been made, and no, I can't tell you anything....yet

NZ1, is there at least a timeframe for any announcements?
 
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:43 pm

Brutie,

This is a really sensitive issue at the moment, and I wouldn't want to risk my job by even telling you of the timeframe. Sorry dude.

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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:18 am

NZ1,
No problem mate. I really appreciate all the info you do give us, and would hate to be responsible for landing you in it.
 
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:06 pm

Any idea if/when NZ will fly 777s scheduled Trans-Tasman instead of the 744s ?

Thanks for the info on NZ 777s to NRT.

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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:14 pm

NZ1

How many 744's are currently fitted out with the new cabin layout? I am due to head out of LAX-AKL on an agent special late August and am wondering what the chances will be?

Any info would be appreciated.

Cheers
 
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:27 pm

Aussieindc

Only one so far, there is a topic on it from last week when it was taken out of the hanger.
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:33 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 27):
Only one so far, there is a topic on it from last week when it was taken out of the hanger.

Thanks Mate! I'll go and have a look for it.

Cheers
 
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:41 pm

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 6):
ZK-SUH is the one who suffers it. Jinxed for some reason



Quoting Kiwi Dave (Reply 7):
Good news that SUH is remaining in the fleet.

And the good news is...a jinxed plane is staying on?...explain please somebody! or am I missing something here?
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:49 pm

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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:57 pm

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 29):
And the good news is...a jinxed plane is staying on?...explain please somebody! or am I missing something here

Wasn't ZK-NZP also thought of as "jinxed" by ground crew?
 
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:08 pm

ZK-NZP was also the Antartartic crash.
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:46 pm

Queue the X-Files theme tune...
 
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:18 am

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 29):
And the good news is...a jinxed plane is staying on?...explain please somebody! or am I missing something here?

Will take too long to explain. This aircraft is well known to crew and engineering for the gremlins it seems to constantly have. Don't beat yourself up about it.

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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:09 am

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 34):
Don't beat yourself up about it.

Worked Ok last time I flew it but I was just wondering, if it is a jinxed pig of an a/c, why anyone would go "Hooray, it's staying!" rather than "Oh man that sucks, I want a nice shiny new 777, mmmmmmm, shiny, drool...", and be glad to see the back of SUH?
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:38 am

i think it was something to do with, money, it was cheaper holding onto this aircraft then leasing another tripple 7 out,
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:14 pm

Safety at any cost...yeah right!
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:43 pm

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 37):
Safety at any cost...yeah right!

Let me tell you right now. Air NZ DOES NOT cut ANY corners when it comes to safety of our aircraft. There are never any problems when we need parts for a defect. We are told to do/replace whatever is required to maintain the airworthiness of the aircraft, regardless of cost.

On the odd occasion that a problem occurs, whether it is a fuel leak, engine problem, or galley problem, it just seems that SUH receives more than her fair share of the problems. I think we have made the right decision to keep and upgrade her, over adding another 772.

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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:36 pm

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 37):
Safety at any cost...yeah right!

 banghead   banghead   banghead 
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:43 pm

Ok folks, calm down, just putting the weary travellers viewpoint, I always choose NZ where possible and have the greatest respect for them.

I was a mechanic (not a/c I'm sorry to say) earlier on in my working life and when working with fleets was always very happy to see the high-maintenance and jinxed vehicles, or boats go away and not come back.

Please don't be offended if joe public finds it hard to understand why a less than perfect a/c is kept on just because it is cheaper. During my time as a mountain expedition leader I made a career out of arguing that safety is done to a standard and not a price, to hear that SUH was kept because it was the cheaper option just seems to be out of synch with my (the passenger) perceptions of NZ and the high regard with which i hold them but if I was on the board at NZ I would shift SUH ASAP if the chance came up. 26 hours is a long time to ponder on the mx history of the alloy tube on which one's life depends and i will bet you a crate of Speight's that when i fly AKL-LAX-LHR-LAX-AKL in 2006 SUH will be one of the a/c.

Maybe ignorance IS bliss and the less you know the less you worry, eh?

I do still love Air NZ, and the All Blacks...and Ponsonby Pies...and Snapper....and Hangi......

[Edited 2005-07-16 08:47:27]
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:40 pm

Guys, when we say SUH is jinxed, we're talking from our own experiences and memories. I bet that when you look at all events, the so-called 'jinxed' aircraft will have had maybe 1%, 3% more issues than the rest of the fleet - and when your 747 fleet is composed of only 8 aircraft, one is bound to stand out even when the deviation % is as minor as that.

Remember the media beat-up when a couple cosmetic panels and a wing flap tracking device detached from NZ 747s a few weeks apart, followed by an engine failure? From memory, -NBS was the aircraft involved in at least two of those incidents - so is it jinxed too? Not when you consider her record since those minor occurences.
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:06 pm

TG992

Yip i remember, the media were blaming NZ and giving the idea that NZ is unsafe, when boeing praised the MX personal for their work, the media kinda shut up while the rest put their 'evidence' as the truth

Safety at any cost...yeah right! NZ has one of the safest record in the world. Just because SUH has more then its fair share of problems doesn't mean that NZ is cutting corners, just take a look at all the overall awards NZ has won
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:39 pm

Quoting TG992 (Reply 41):
From memory, -NBS was the aircraft involved in at least two of those incidents - so is it jinxed too?

The r/h foreflap came off NBS, and the missing pylon wing access panel which fell into the carpark was off NBU.

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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:48 pm

Which aircraft had the part crash throu a warehouse while on apprach I think it was into AKL?
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:07 pm

763 ZK-NCH i believe?
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:45 pm

Thanks TG992

Regards
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RE: NZ To Keep 744 ZK-SUH

Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:55 pm

Seeing the stats as you have presented them i am reassured but do be aware of how emotive language (jinxed) can be misunderstood by the uninitiated , most of what I have learnt through a.net has improved my understanding and made flying far more interesting and less worrying.

Sorry if i pressed any buttons in the NZ mx crew, I do apologise for that.

Jafa
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....