fbm3rd
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Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:00 am

I didnt know that Singapore used the Concorde. What routes was this used on? What this BA partnership b/c all the airline names on all of the 11 pics I found have BA/SIA as the airline? More info on this would be great...

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rossbaku
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:04 am

If you check out the timeline and various other portions of www.ba.com/concorde you may be a little more in the light. Also, a fantastic sight for all of Concorde's history is http://www.concordesst.com

What you're looking for is here: http://www.concordesst.com/history/events/sia.html
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:04 am

It was just a promotion thing I think, I not sure if I'm right but I think BA livery was on the other side. It looked great!!!!!!!!
 
trekster
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:14 am

The Old BA livery is on the other side of the plane

Looked weird, but cool
Where does the time go???
 
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EGTESkyGod
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:50 am

IT'S NOT "THE CONCORDE", IT'S JUST Concorde!!!!!!
I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
 
GDB
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:59 am

50% of F/A's were SIA, the other half, BA.

The service suffered (after it's false start in Dec 77), from not only the recession of the time, but from politics.
The original intention was to extend the service to the Singapore-Melbourne leg, was never realized.

The LHR-BAH leg had supercruise from passing the Italian coast over the Adriatic, right down to Bahrain.
As a civil war was raging in Lebanon at the time, the sonic boom would barely be noticed over land there, whilst over Saudi it was over mostly uninhabited areas.

Until the 1980 documentary on a UK channel 'Death Of A Princess', detailing the human rights abuses of the Saudi regime, then all of a sudden there were people affected in Saudi, as well as camels having their mating disturbed by the boom.
The loss of this overland supercruise leg, coupled with poor loads, made the service end in November 1980.

Only G-BOAD had the SIA livery on one side.

The BAH-SIN leg, over equatorial regions, demonstrated that the cooler air in this region at 50-60,000 feet, compared to the North Atlantic, increased engine efficiency enough to allow around a 200 mile range increase, this would later make possible non stop LHR-BGI services.
 
harry
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:05 am

ya, i remember watching a concorde around the world tour video and the captain mention about SIA own the aircraft before
pretty cool  Smile
Harry
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:14 am

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 4):
IT'S NOT "THE CONCORDE", IT'S JUST Concorde!!!!!!

It's an American thing, we put "the" in front of everything.....
NO URLS in signature
 
beauing
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:18 am

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 4):
IT'S NOT "THE CONCORDE", IT'S JUST Concorde!!!!!!

Just like people in the UK don't go to the hospital they go to hospital.
 
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EGTESkyGod
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:50 am

Yeah, but going to hospital or going to the hospital are both things people in the UK say, either way sounds right, but "The Concorde" just isn't right. It's just Concorde. So now you know!
I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
 
beauing
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:55 am

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 9):
"The Concorde" just isn't right. It's just Concorde. So now you know!

Is it just QE2?
Is it just 747?
 
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EGTESkyGod
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:59 am

Neither of those are Concorde! QE2 I might add "the" to, not sure about 747, might say "I flew a 747". If the was only one Concorde in the world, I'd accept "The Concorde". As there is only one QE2, "The QE2" doesn't sound too bad.
I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
 
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EGTESkyGod
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:11 am

Just a nickname, go easy. I'm just making the point that it is just Concorde, not the Concorde.
I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
 
hodja
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:12 am

So how long was the LHR-BAH-SIN flight then?

Today LHR-SIN is about 13hrs on a BA 744...
 
GDB
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:20 am

About 9 hours I think.
 
rtfm
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:30 am

ya, i remember watching a concorde around the world tour video and the captain mention about SIA own the aircraft before

SQ never owned the a/c - it was owned by BA, it was just jointly marketed and operated (cabin crew only; flight crew were all BA).
 
B2707SST
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:47 am

In addition to the political problems with Saudi, I remember reading in one Concorde book (probably either Brian Trubshaw's or Christopher Orlebar's) that Malaysia gave BA grief about cruising supersonically over the Straits of Malacca en route to Singapore. Overflight permission was "on-again, off-again" and further complicated the route planning.

Also, Concorde's LHR-SIN loads apparently took a hit when BA introduced the 747-200 in 1977, which unlike the -100 could fly the route non-stop. The reduction in subsonic flight time made Concorde look that much less attractive.

I've always wondered how feasible a SIN-SYD extension would have been; I know it was investigated several times but came to nothing. Two tech stops is a lot for any route, but the subsonics obviously still have to make one anyway and supersonic overflight of the outback shouldn't have been a problem.

--B2707SST
Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
 
jetstream63
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 2:53 am

The BAH-SIN sector also ran into problems (as I remember) because of objections from India about supersonic overflights.
 
GDB
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:10 am

Unfortunately, supersonic flight over the outback was a problem, there was a successful campaign to prevent it.
 
GuyBetsy1
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:39 am

The flights were jointly operated by SQ/BA.

BA flight crew piloted the aircraft throughout. But BA cabin crew operated the flight from LHR-BAH and SQ cabin crew took over from BAH to SIN and v.v.

The service was short lived when various countries complained of 'noise' and 'sonic booms scaring their fish stocks'. Service was suspended a few weeks after it started. But resumed after months of negotiation with neighbouring countries - namely India and Malaysia, came to some sort of agreement.

But the servce never really took off and after much fanfare, the joint operation of SQ/BA Concorde service was duly cancelled. But SQ celebrated and tauted their involvement with Concorde for years. The aircraft is even spotted on the Singapore $20 note.
 
GDB
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:11 am

Later, the Canadians allowed limited overland supercruise, not only on OAG's last flight to Seattle, but on charters roughly about half a dozen times a year, such as the 1999 Round The World charter (G-BOAD again), from New York to Vancouver.
Then again, they had no axe to grind, such as Air India or Malaysian airline rights, as well as Canada being made up mostly of those of British and French descent, so both sides of Concorde covered!
 
vc10
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:53 am

The SQ and BA cabin crews did alternate sectors, so you would get SQ c/c in London and BA c/c crew in Singapore. Now some of the BA flight deck crews were base in Singapore for 3 months at a time and would only operate Singapore -Bahrain - Singapore sectors whilst the London crews would operate the London Bahrain sectors

The time London - Singapore was of the order of 9 hours and although to continue to Sydney would have been nice no supersonic flight was permitted over Australia after the proving flights and to be honest there was not enough Ist class traffic LHR to Sydney to warrant even trying. Remember Bahrain was only flown because it could not initially go to the states and Singapore was an extension to see if the route could break even, similar to the extension of the LHR- IAD route to MIA.

The cold temperatures at high altitudes in the lower Latitudes was known about before Concorde flew commercially and a modification had to be fitted to the Autopilot/Autothrottle system to cater for this so as to stop the aircraft zooming through 60,000 ft if it suddenly met a cold pocket of air. However these cold temp did allow the old girl to stretch here range to be able to do the Bahrain - Singapore sector via south of Ceylon, but even so the route was operated on the limits of the aircraft's range and was always a challenge to the crews. Indeed most of Concorde's operation was a challenge for the crew and this is why in this computerized era crews loved flying it.

Little vc10
 
Ryanair!!!
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:48 am

Although the Concorde liaison lasted briefly, it did wonders to raise SIA's recognition as a power house brand. Let's not forget during that time the airline was a mere 5 yrs old. It was indeed an achievement for the airline to be associated with the supersonic airliner as other than, BA and AF, no other carrier has had their livery painted on it.
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
 
Amy
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:57 am

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 4):
IT'S NOT "THE CONCORDE", IT'S JUST Concorde!!!!!!

Yes, it is.

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 7):
It's an American thing, we put "the" in front of everything.....

Yeah, unfortunately you do.

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 9):
"The Concorde" just isn't right. It's just Concorde.

It was made in the UK so, as EGTE says, it's just 'Concorde'. m'kay?


I also was not aware that Concorde ever carried the SQ colours before. Very cool!

So what colours were on Concorde?

Air France,

BA Landor,

BA Red tail,

BA Union Flag,

Pepsi,

BA/SQ,

any others?
A340-300 - slow, but awesome!
 
vunz
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:12 pm

Quoting GuyBetsy1 (Reply 20):
But the service never really took off and after much fanfare, the joint operation of SQ/BA Concorde service was duly cancelled. But SQ celebrated and tauted their involvement with Concorde for years. The aircraft is even spotted on the Singapore $20 note.

Funny thing is that the Singapore $20 shows the starboard side in SQ livery which has never been that way  Smile
 
rossbaku
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:28 pm

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 4):
IT'S NOT "THE CONCORDE", IT'S JUST Concorde!!!!!!

Chill. It's just a small three-letter word you're getting hyped up about.
 
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EGTESkyGod
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:05 pm

I know, but it does annoy me, and other Concorde fans, and I've seen it so many times!

Additional Liveries to the ones already mentioned are:

Old Air France
Airport 1979 "The Concorde" movie (Grunt)
and obviously the BAC/Aerospatiale colours on the prototypes!
I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
 
MD-90
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:11 pm

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 4):
IT'S NOT "THE CONCORDE", IT'S JUST Concorde!!!!!!

It's the Concorde in the USA, not Concorde in USA, for example. It's American English, the World's Favorite English.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:15 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 28):
It's American English, the World's Favorite English.

Wouldn't that be Indian English?  Wink
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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EGTESkyGod
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:08 pm

Right, lets clear something up. English is so called because it originates in England, therefore the English way of saying things is technically the correct way, although there are variations, I'll accept.

Now, Concorde is an English/French aircraft, and only had "Concorde" written on it, not "The Concorde" so its name is Concorde, whether it be in the UK, USA, Canada, Hawaii or Timbuktu. Just Concorde.
I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
 
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mariner
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:36 pm

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 30):
Now, Concorde is an English/French aircraft, and only had "Concorde" written on it, not "The Concorde"

Oh, bulldust.

If you wrote "Comet" on the side of an aircraft, you wouldn't write "the Comet" - you'd just write "Comet" or "707" or "A380".

But when speaking about it you add the definite article. It would be pretentious to say "I flew Comet."

Example: I stayed at "the" Ritz in London - I didn't stay at Ritz.

cheers

mariner

ps: And if you're going to be that anal, Concorde is not the original English name of the aircraft.

[Edited 2005-07-12 11:41:06]
aeternum nauta
 
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EGTESkyGod
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:30 pm

True, but the name ended up being "Concorde", not "Concord" or "the Concord(e)", but I think it looks better with an "e" anyway.
I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
 
GDB
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:31 am

Mariner, no one, not in industry, not with the operators, ever called it 'The Concorde'.
Including our American staff at JFK who were directly associated with it.
Most pax too, including the more regular US ones.
Unlike others types I'll accept.
A unique aircraft warranted a unique way of naming it.

That is when we were not calling it 'The Rocket' or the 'The Paraffin Pencil' however!
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:10 am

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 30):
Right, lets clear something up. English is so called because it originates in England, therefore the English way of saying things is technically the correct way, although there are variations, I'll accept.

Ooh, hornet's nest! Big grin

There are different variations, each with inherently correct grammar. Sort of like Belgian French and French French. There are differences and you can't say one is "more correct" than another.

Your argument about origin doesn't hold water. Plenty of modern English derives from French, German, Latin, Ancient Greek and so on. It just happens to have developed in England. If you want a "more original" language for the territory you might want to try a Celt language.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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mariner
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:20 am

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 32):
Mariner, no one, not in industry, not with the operators, ever called it 'The Concorde'.

Oh. Gosh. Hmmm.

My father worked for Imperial/BOAC/British since 1936 and he called it "the Concord".

My boss flew "that plane" several times a year, and he always called it "the Concorde".

I flew it, and I said I had flown on "the Concorde".

Quoting EGTESkyGod (Reply 32):
I think it looks better with an "e" anyway.

But your whole argument is based on the English language. In the English language, the word is "concord", meaning "an accordance".

Since "Concorde" is an adoption of a French word, I'm not sure why you were so high up on your horse abut English.  Smile

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Ryanair!!!
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Wed Jul 13, 2005 11:59 am

GUYS... BACK TO AVIATION! It is unbelievable how trivial the arguments here can be.
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
 
vc10
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:40 pm

I have never seen such a load of old crap, as this is supposed to be aviation site not an English class. I was associated with Concorde for 23 years and do not mind whether people use the term " the Concorde " or " Concorde " and indeed I would say I have probably used both terms in the past as it depends on the context that the phrase / name is being used in .
So let us get off our high horses and get back to aviation

little vc10
 
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EGTESkyGod
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:10 pm

Quite right. By the way Mariner, you've quoted me as saying something I didn't (Reply 35.) You have actually quoted GDB.

Back to aviation...
I came, I saw, I Concorde! RIP Michael Jackson
 
GDB
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:52 pm

Just calling it how I saw (and heard) it.
Actually, I don't really care, what bugs me is when it is spelt 'Concord'
That stopped at the 001 roll out in 1967.
 
ei a330-200
Posts: 337
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Wed Jul 13, 2005 11:19 pm

Just to throw some fuel on the fire, technically American English is the more correct English. If you compare the evolution of the languages, you'll see that America has kept closer to the roots of the English Language than any other.
 
positiverate
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Wed Jul 13, 2005 11:30 pm

Anyone on here ever fly Braniff's Concorde service? Any stories?
 
dan2002
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:37 am

http://www.monetarium.com.sg/images/S$20%20birdR.jpg



-Dan
A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
 
HKGKaiTak
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RE: Singapore Airlines And The Concorde

Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:58 am

Mmm, that $20 note has the SQ livery on the wrong side - it's the port side that has the SQ livery and the starboard side was the BA livery!!!
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