ChiGB1973
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Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:49 am

From the discussion board?!?:

It seems that Continental wants ALL of our 757-300's, and in exchange we will be receiving FOURTEEN (14) of their 737-700's. The deal for the ten 737 Classic's seems to be off. Why is this important - first, the classics are as old as dirt (big maintenance $$). The 700's are as new as our 800's. Second, unlike the Classics, pilots would not need to do sim-time on the 700's, saving big $$$, too. Also, the 700's have the same number of seats as the Classics so the lower-seat-capacity business plan is still in play.

Word is we are thiiiiissss close to acquiring TWO (2) 767's.

Word is that 'Indy' is breathing easy, now that we have two (2) superpowers finding interim financing for us.

Word is that scheduled service to Europe starting in early 2006 is still a go.


That's all I can personally say is from a reliable source.
Can it be that the dark cloud over ATA is FINALLY dissipating?!!!
 
cmb320
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:01 am

Exactly how many 753's does ATA have?
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:09 am

12 753s according to www.planemad.net.

M
 
panam330
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:13 am

I don't mean to be such a stick in the mud, but I find this very hard to believe. CO uses their 73Gs on EWR-California transcons, and they're a very valuable tool from CLE as well. This 'trade' doesn't seem too likely, but what do I know, eh?
 
blsbls99
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:20 am

Well, sounds like it would be beneficial for both. CO gets to trade up some of their 752 domestic capacity to a 753, move the 752 to international ops, which is where they are growing and need the capacity. The 73Gs they lose, the obviously need to cut some domestic routes, or shift schedules for better utilization (if they aren't at that point already). Unless those 73Gs are replaced with the 738s that CO is taking from Boeing that were destined for TZ anyway.
TZ gets some smaller more efficient 73Gs to replace 753s (unless the 738s replace the 753s, and the 73Gs replace the 738s), which they are looking for more "right sized" aircraft for their needs.

[Edited 2005-07-12 00:21:20]
319 320 313 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 742 752 763 772 CRJ D9S ERJ EMB L10 M88 M90 SF3 AT4
 
dutchjet
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:20 am

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 3):
I don't mean to be such a stick in the mud, but I find this very hard to believe. CO uses their 73Gs on EWR-California transcons, and they're a very valuable tool from CLE as well. This 'trade' doesn't seem too likely, but what do I know, eh?

CO has 34 73Gs - that would mean 20 were left for long thin routes.

CO uses the 73G less and less on transcons out of EWR - 757s and 738s are far more common now on those routes.

This would make sense - CO find the 73G a bit small and prefers the larger 738s and this is not the first time I have heard that CO would not mind getting rid of all or some of the 73Gs. And, CO does like the 753s......lots of seats and low operating costs; they are a good aircraft for routes like EWR and IAH to LAX/LAS/SFO/FLL/MCO, etc and some Carib services.

My question is - CO was going to take 8 753s, this would mean 4 more, but CO would lose 14 73Gs......a loss of ten aircraft, how will this be handled, a further 738 order? CO already moved up the delivery of 6 738s for delivery this year.
 
swadispatcher
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:31 am

IF they did do this "swap", Hawaii flights would have issues since the -800's aren't ETOPS yet; so I'm not sure how much of this I believe..

ChiGB, are they even close to getting ETOPS for the -800's yet?? The other question is could the -800's make it LAS/PHX to HNL/OGG with proper ETOPS reserves, etc.. Also, I was under the impression that the Hawaii loads were full enough to warrant the 75's.
Maintain 2300 until Boiler, cleared for the VOR-A approach, report BATLE inbound..
 
goCOgo
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:35 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5):
CO has 34 73Gs - that would mean 20 were left for long thin routes.

Planemad says they have 36. I counted 35 at Airfleets, but probably miscounted.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5):
CO was going to take 8 753s, this would mean 4 more, but CO would lose 14 73Gs......a loss of ten aircraft,

From the thread starter, it sounds as if CO was already giving up 10 733s for the 753s. (Although I had not heard that before, I thought TZ was returning the 753s straight up) Four more planes for four more planes, albeit much newer aircraft.
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:48 am

Quoting Swadispatcher (Reply 6):
ChiGB, are they even close to getting ETOPS for the -800's yet??

In talking to a 738 pilot before furlough, he didn't think they would ever get ETOPS for a trans-Atlantic route. I do not know what his reasoning was, but I do remember him saying something about the GE engines. As for the Pacific route, I do not know. I think it is a long shot for them to get the approval, personally. I don't have much more of a reason other that personal feelings. I know AQ does it. Still, just a feeling.

I know I just tiptoed all around the question, but it's all I can do.

M
 
tundra767
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:27 am

Looks like someon was readin the union site..LOL

From what I understand the 738's are ETOPS and will start flying to Hawaii in DEC. They will continue to be in the two-class configuration. I think after the end of the PHH contract they will bring the 738 to LAX. NOt positive on that yet.
 
A388
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:30 am

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 8):
In talking to a 738 pilot before furlough, he didn't think they would ever get ETOPS for a trans-Atlantic route. I do not know what his reasoning was, but I do remember him saying something about the GE engines.

GE engines? Aren't all 737s equipped with CFM engines?

A388
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:38 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 10):
GE engines? Aren't all 737s equipped with CFM engines?

January 28, 1999 -- EVENDALE, Ohio - GE Aircraft Engines and CFM International, the 50/50 joint company of Snecma of France and GE, won 54 percent of the engine orders for large commercial aircraft* in 1998.
GE and CFM received orders in 1998 for 1,301 engines. GE/CFM also won an industry-leading 1,600 engines in 1997 and 1,298 engine orders in 1996.

http://www.geae.com/aboutgeae/presscenter/other/other_19990128.html

M
 
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iahcsr
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:39 am

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 7):
Planemad says they have 36.

36 is the correct number .... All of which will have winglets by the end of the year.
Working very hard to Fly Right....
 
A388
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:44 am

Ohhh I see, disregard my post... Thanks for the correction  Smile

A388
 
ikramerica
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:18 am

From what CLE/EWR people have said, the winglets are the problem with the 73G. The 73G has winglets which makes the wingspan too wide for some gates compared to the 733. While the 753 is also wider, at least you are getting 222 seats (in current 12/210 config) or 213? seats in new config (24/189?) for that gate limitation. Since the 733 and 73G have the same interior configuration, CO is favoring the older plane for anything but the furthest routes at this point.

As for transcon, it looks like for LAX-EWR, CO is slowly moving to 752 with BF cabin over other models. Expect this to continue to better attract premium pax in this market. 753s with 24 first would be good for LAX-IAH, IAH-EWR, ANC in summer, and caribbean and closer latin america flights.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
swadispatcher
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:51 am

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 8):
In talking to a 738 pilot before furlough, he didn't think they would ever get ETOPS for a trans-Atlantic route.

Several airlines do BBJs across the pond, would think the type should (?) be certified for the route.

Quoting Tundra767 (Reply 9):
From what I understand the 738's are ETOPS and will start flying to Hawaii in DEC.

I had heard the same thing from my friend over there, but that was a month or two ago. I didn't know if certification had gone through or not.


Anyone know if the 738's would have the range, with ETOPS reserves, to do LAS/PHX-Hawaii with a full load??
Maintain 2300 until Boiler, cleared for the VOR-A approach, report BATLE inbound..
 
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STT757
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:47 am

CO already has an existing agreement with Boeing for 8 of ATA's 12 757-300s which they start taking delivery of this month , that deal is between Boeing (who owns those aircraft) and CO.

I don't see where 14 CO 737-700s comes in to play for the remaining 4 ATA 757-300s, unless it also included additional 757-200s or 737-800s.

CO is not going to "trade" 14 737-700s for 4 757-300s, unless it included additional 757-200s and or 737-800s all three of which CO would love to acquire under great terms.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
COERJ145
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:53 am

I also belive CO uses 73Gs on EWR to the carribean. I know they use 73Gs to SXM during peak season. Also, where are the ATA 767s gonna come from? ex UA/AA?

-Jeff M
 
toxtethogrady
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:59 am

"It seems that Continental wants ALL of our 757-300's, and in exchange we will be receiving FOURTEEN (14) of their 737-700's."

CAL already got them all. ATA only has the 200's left. Considering the conjecture is Continental will BUY 14 737-800's, I have to wonder if this is another of those wonderfully mixed-up rumors that becomes more garbled with each telling...
 
vegasplanes
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:01 pm

73G's have no problem flying LAS-HNL nonstop with a full load, Aloha flies one daily rotation on this flight as well as from SAN and SNA.
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:04 pm

Quote:

CAL already got them all. ATA only has the 200's left.

ATA was as of this morning still operating 10 757-300's .....
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
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STT757
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:11 pm

Quoting Toxtethogrady (Reply 18):
CAL already got them all.



Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 20):
ATA was as of this morning still operating 10 757-300's .....

The CO deal with Boeing is for 8 of ATA's 12 757-300, the deliveries start this month. It will leave ATA with 4 757-300s.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
mNeo
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:11 pm

Quoting Swadispatcher (Reply 15):
Several airlines do BBJs across the pond, would think the type should (?) be certified for the route.

But one has to take the account that the BBj2 has a range of over 7000Nm thus it can afford to go via the non-direct route even if its lacking the ETOPS requirement.
Powered by Maina
 
Vortex
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:12 pm

I am now wearing my hip waders. As everyone knows in this industry, until you see the planes on property, don't believe a thing. There is another post about the first TZ 737-300 arriving in Indy, which is consistent with the reports that first plane would be on property this summer.

Happy Flying

Vortex
 
ATA767
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:14 pm

For the actual court documents pertaining to this issue click on: http://docs.bmccorp.net/ATA/docs/insb_1-04-bk-19866_2534.pdf

Seems like everyone here is speculating and knows very little about the actual situation.
The 737-800 ETOPS is eminent. The 737-700 are in scope currently and will result in the depletion of ATA's 757-300's from the fleet.

ATA will most likely be commencing trans Atlantic service in 2006 (BWI,PIT,PHL) could be launch cites.

The Company has announced a PHX (757 Pilot) base for this fall .Also the turnover of SFO (Oct) and LAX (Jan 31) Hawaii flying to the 737-800.

Ponder that!
 
gigneil
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:23 pm

Quoting Swadispatcher (Reply 6):
IF they did do this "swap", Hawaii flights would have issues since the -800's aren't ETOPS yet; so I'm not sure how much of this I believe..

They'd just fly the 752s on Hawaii while the 738s were certified.

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 8):
In talking to a 738 pilot before furlough, he didn't think they would ever get ETOPS for a trans-Atlantic route.

Not for any reason. The 738 is an ETOPS capable plane and ATA is an ETOPS capable carrier.

Their 738s don't really have the legs for any routes except maybe KEF, REK, or SNN.

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 8):
I don't have much more of a reason other that personal feelings. I know AQ does it.

They do, which means any carrier that has an ETOPS program can.

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 8):
I know I just tiptoed all around the question, but it's all I can do.

Seriously, I don't want to be rude, but then you shouldn't. If you don't have any idea at all, then it might be best to reserve comment for those that do. This is how misinformation is spread.

N
 
tundra767
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:32 pm

Quoting Swadispatcher (Reply 15):
Anyone know if the 738's would have the range, with ETOPS reserves, to do LAS/PHX-Hawaii with a full load??

It is my understand they will be flying these on LAS/PHX I think this wil start before they bring hte 738 to LAX and SFO. Will be perfect as HP will start with the HNL/OGG flights just as ATA rolls out the 738 for that run.
 
avek00
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:18 pm

Quoting Swadispatcher (Reply 15):
Several airlines do BBJs across the pond, would think the type should (?) be certified for the route.

The regular pax 738 simply doesn't have the legs for much more than EWR/BOS-DUB/SNN and vv. on a year-round nonstop basis, and costs would become a major issue for an LCC on such a flight anyways. The BBJ is an entirely different animal - the plane is optimized to carry fewer pax over a much greater distance.
Live life to the fullest.
 
FlyHoss
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:05 pm

I saw a 757-300 (with Rolls Royce RB211 engines) for sale at www.OKAviation.com - isn't this one of ATA/TZ's planes? Does anyone have a way to find out?

Last I heard, CO was getting 8 former TZ 757-300s and has already taken delivery of the first. I've seen no indication of any additional 757s beyond that. If one is for sale at OK Aviation (see above) then it doesn't seem that CO is getting all 12, does it? Of course, things can change...

I've also seen no evidence of CO reducing it's 737-700 fleet. I hope not, it's my favorite of the 737s. But again, things can change...
A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
 
A340Spotter
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:49 pm

FlyHoss,

There's only one 757-200 and it never states that it's RR powered, at least from what I can see on that website you listed.

The first 757-300, N559TZ, was handed over and flown IND-YXX as COA9971 on the 7th of July. Will become N57869 once it's fully retrofitted. Now seeing as COA has ship numbers 851-859 already in service, those of you that can excel in math will see that a number greater than 8 is now in play...

JSD
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
 
ikramerica
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:08 am

Quoting MNeo (Reply 22):
But one has to take the account that the BBj2 has a range of over 7000Nm thus it can afford to go via the non-direct route even if its lacking the ETOPS requirement.

But one also has to take into account that part 121 and part 135 ETOPS are not figured the same way.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
gigneil
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:12 am

Quoting MNeo (Reply 22):
But one has to take the account that the BBj2 has a range of over 7000Nm thus it can afford to go via the non-direct route even if its lacking the ETOPS requirement.

I missed this earlier. No, no it doesn't even remotely have a 7000nm range. The BBJ2's range is considerably less than the BBJ's, which is a max of around 6000nm depending on tank and seat configuration.

N
 
by738
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:23 am

Any idea where the TZ transatlantic routes would be to ?
 
dutchjet
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:42 am

I think its entirely possible that CO will end up with all of ATA 757-300s, 8 out of 12 are already definite, and if ATA is going to go with the 738 to Hawaii, they may want to dispose of the remaining 4 753s since they really do have any further routes that require an aircraft of that size (if ATA goes to Europe, it will be with 752s and charters are staying with the 1011s until ATA can find and pay for some 767s).....and from what has been reported, CO got a great (low-risk) deal on the ex-ATA 753s (with Boeing paying for converting the aircraft to CO's specs), why would CO not be interested in pickeing up these 4 aircraft? And, Boeing would certainly want to place the aircraft with CO - quite frankly, who else is going to take them - there are a very limited number of RR powered 753 operators. With all of CO's widebodies needed to operate CO's overseas flights, the 753 can be useful for high demand domestic, caribbean and latin american flights, both lower and higher yeilding routes, especially since CO is going back to the 24F seat configuration on the 753s. The operating costs on the 753 are extraordinary - too bad that the 753 went out of production, its an undiscovered gem (just ask the people at NW).

The second part of the story, 14 73Gs going to ATA, seems more questionable......firstly, in another post, someone stated that the first 733 is already on the way to ATA. Next, it was first reported that ATA would take 735s and 733s, and then the 735s were dropped, so it seems very unclear what is going on. Also, taking on 14 73Gs is a lot of aircraft for ATA (ATA still has serious financial issues to deal with), far more than was ever discussed with the 737-2nd generation plan; can ATA afford them and on what routes will they use them, unless, of course, the plan is to further intergrate ATA into Southwest who is the biggest 73G operator of all......something is up with this. Finally, if this deal is true, CO will loose 10 aircraft (4 753s in, 14 73Gs out).....the original 8 ex-ATA 753s were already figured into the planning to cover for 752s not available for domestic flying due to their new transatlantic duties. While CO could get more utilization out of its 737 fleet, I do not know if the schedule can accomodate the loss of ten airframes (not likely)....so again this is not making sense. Will CO get more 738s from ATA as part of this deal......who knows?

It is true that CO would be pleased to exchange some or all of its 73Gs for larger aircraft; a couple of years ago, CO did state that no further 73Gs would be ordered and further 737NG orders would be primarily 738s. There was also a rumor going around that CO was looking to "give back" the 73Gs and exchange them for 738s......it was a complicated and unconfirmed story that went something like this: CO would return the 73Gs to lessors and they would be leased to other airlines (read Southwest I think), in turn, CO would get an equal amount (36 seems to be the number, I was wrong above) of new build and second-hand 738s from other carriers (read, ATA)......it sounded interesting, CO would end up with its preferred aircraft (the 738) and Southwest would end up with its preferred type (the 73G), but after going around for a few weeks, the story simply went away and, to be clear, the involvement of ATA and Southwest was pure speculation. With this new rumor of an ATA 73G deal appearing, the older story seems relevant.

All of that being said, if this deal is to happen, I have to believe that Southwest is involved with it on some level, it makes sense due to relationship between Southwest and ATA and the fact that 73Gs are suddenly being considered for the ATA fleet in these numbers. I have a feeling that this is not the last that were hear of this rather interesting, yet bizarre, story.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:45 am

Quoting BY738 (Reply 32):
Any idea where the TZ transatlantic routes would be to ?

Rumor was that ATA would fly from the US to Cologne, Germany......I think that it was even announced. ATA was always unclear as to which US cities that the flights would depart from; since the flight(s) were to operate with a 752, most assumed that BOS, BWI, EWR or JFK would be the gateway cities, back then many thought that one flight would operate MDW-EWR-CGN to tie in the Midway hub (now gone) and another would fly IND-BOS or BWI-CGN to tie in the Indy hub.

I am sure that the plans have now been revised.
 
Jetter2
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:50 am

God this is amazing!

I never thought I would see the day that 737's are flying to Hawaii!!

I found it odd enough that a 757 was doing it but wow..whats next?
I wonder how all these 737 pilots are feeling about doing over-water flights on the birds.

To me, the 737 is still just a good ol land hopper =]
 
gigneil
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:51 am

Quoting Jetter2 (Reply 35):
I never thought I would see the day that 737's are flying to Hawaii!!

They have been for several years now, buddy.  Smile

N
 
Vortex
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:12 am

I asked around and here is what I got on the issue:

"Take it for what it's worth, but over the last few days I heard from 2 different sources that we were getting 14 ex-Continental 737-700s in addition to the United 737-300s. 3 757-300s would remain. Also, the company had Investors waiting in the wings for us to sign a long term contract. Like I said, take it for what its worth."
 
akelley728
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:09 am

Quoting Jetter2 (Reply 35):
I never thought I would see the day that 737's are flying to Hawaii!!

AQ (Aloha) has been doing this for years.
 
FlyHoss
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:42 am

2000 Boeing 8500 Hollister CA $35,000,000
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2000 B-757-300, 8500 TTSN, 3200 TCYSN, RB 211-535 E4-B137 engines, 271,000 MGTW. 252-Y, 11,478 USG, dual EFIS, FMS, EGPWS, TCAS II. $35,000,000. CA(831) 333-9033; Fax(831) 333-9035. http://www.okaviation.com (831) 333-9033
Last Modified: 07/03/2005

Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 29):
FlyHoss,

There's only one 757-200 and it never states that it's RR powered, at least from what I can see on that website you listed.

You're right, it's not on their website. I looked at so many, that I was a bit confused. The ad above is from Trade-A-Plane. I can't explain why it's not on their (OK Aviation) website, though.
A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
 
A340Spotter
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:40 am

FlyHoss,

No problem, but I'll help dispel the theory that it's an ATA 757-300 listed as well...

1. 2000 build. ATA's first one rolled out in June 2001, N550TZ.

2. Y252. Not entirely sure on their configuration, but I believe that it was around 12/216?

I'd put my money on it being one of the Condor/Thomas Cook birds as the Thomas Cook UK ones are 2001 builds as well.

Jeffrey
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
 
sllevin
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:30 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 33):
unless, of course, the plan is to further intergrate ATA into Southwest who is the biggest 73G operator of all

In that case (not saying it's likely), I'd be willing to bet that they'd arrange to lease direct from Southwest, or otherwise get -7H4 spec airframes for future commonality...

Steve
 
Tornado82
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:09 pm

Quoting ATA767 (Reply 24):
ATA will most likely be commencing trans Atlantic service in 2006 (BWI,PIT,PHL) could be launch cites.

I seriously doubt ATA will come rolling back in to PIT on a blaze of glory to start Trans-Atlantic, after packing up shop in the winter time. Although, the county is dead-serious about getting PIT-Europe (esp. Germany because of the pharamaceuticals) service back, so maybe. If I had to put odds on it though I'd say it's about a 6:1 longshot.

Will ATA Trans-Atlantic be WN codeshared? If so, I'd look for BWI/PHL over PIT... although at the rate WN planes fill up into PIT they could just add a few more PIT flights and "git 'r done." After all, God knows PIT has the gates, and the international facilities. US might have rolled over and played dead for WN in the past (and are falling into the trap in PIT now too), but if WN attacked their Trans-Atlantic from PHL in any way, shape, or form we might be in for a bloody war.

LCC's Trans-Atlantic, it's all over now boys.  boggled 
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:05 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 42):
getting PIT-Europe (esp. Germany because of the pharamaceuticals)

...problem being:
those flights were contingent upon premium tickets and cargo-- two elements that the 752 is among the least proficient aircraft to cater to, in terms of overseas operations.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 42):
LCC's Trans-Atlantic, it's all over now boys

...yeah, for the LoCos.

In case ya haven't noticed, LoCos nonstop over the Atlantic has never been successfully done longterm.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Tornado82
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:40 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 43):
...problem being:
those flights were contingent upon premium tickets and cargo-- two elements that the 752 is among the least proficient aircraft to cater to, in terms of overseas operations.

I know that, but the PIT airport people would take whatever they can get... and ATA has definitely made some foolish growth decisions in the past.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 43):
...yeah, for the LoCos.

In case ya haven't noticed, LoCos nonstop over the Atlantic has never been successfully done longterm.

But anything even remotely affiliated with WN is unfallable, of course they'd succeed where other's failed... the "WN Praetorian Guard" would buy up all the tickets just to ensure their success!  Wink  stirthepot 
 
swadispatcher
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:11 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 42):
Will ATA Trans-Atlantic be WN codeshared?

Absolutely, given the opportunity. And we would end up sending them a ton of folks, if Hawaii is any indication..
Maintain 2300 until Boiler, cleared for the VOR-A approach, report BATLE inbound..
 
Tornado82
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:14 am

Quoting Swadispatcher (Reply 45):
Absolutely, given the opportunity. And we would end up sending them a ton of folks, if Hawaii is any indication..

That being the case... bring the operation to Pittsburgh, WN is already a media darling there... I wonder if US would bring at least one 767 a day in to compete on some given route... they sure as hell can't afford to roll over and play dead for a WN (codeshare) going international in their former stomping grounds.
 
ATA767
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:17 am

The code share is adding a good baseline of customers to ATA's operation (nearing 30% on Avg). With the addition of more markets and Europe, the sky is the limit.
 
swadispatcher
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:48 am

Quoting ATA767 (Reply 47):
The code share is adding a good baseline of customers to ATA's operation (nearing 30% on Avg).

Did ya get my email with the #'s ?
Maintain 2300 until Boiler, cleared for the VOR-A approach, report BATLE inbound..
 
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iahcsr
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RE: Trade CO 737-700s For TZ 753s!

Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:57 am

Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 29):
The first 757-300, N559TZ, was handed over and flown IND-YXX as COA9971 on the 7th of July. Will become N57869 once it's fully retrofitted. Now seeing as COA has ship numbers 851-859 already in service, those of you that can excel in math will see that a number greater than 8 is now in play...

I haven't checked, but if all the TZ have reg#s in sequence N550-561TZ, and 559 is to become CO Ship 869 (instead of 860). Then I suspect there could very well be some gaps in CO's numbering pattern on these planes.  scratchchin 
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