cathay747
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AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:36 am

Well, some speculation I saw in a thread here the other day was true!

From AA:

AMERICAN AIRLINES UPDATE JULY 12, 2005

AMERICAN AIRLINES ANNOUNCES NEW NONSTOP SERVICE BETWEEN CHICAGO O'HARE AND DELHI, INDIA

American Also To Codeshare With Air Sahara

American Airlines announced today it will begin daily nonstop service between Chicago O'Hare International Airport and Delhi, India, on Nov. 15, 2005, subject to government approval. Delhi is India's capital and third-largest city. The route is nearly 7,500 miles and will be the longest nonstop route in American's growing international network. The airline will fly the route with its 236-seat Boeing 777-200 aircraft.
Serving the route is made possible by a new agreement between American and the Allied Pilots Association (APA) involving long-haul extended flying, announced earlier today. The United States and India announced in April an "Open Skies" agreement between the two nations.
"This new route is another step in our international growth strategy. Delhi is an important and vital city and India is one of the fastest-growing international markets for both passenger and cargo traffic," said Henry Joyner, American's Senior Vice President - Planning. "Also, our agreement with the APA to fly this route is another success in our Working Together process, which benefits the company, our customers and our employees."
In addition, American announced it has entered into a Memorandum of Understanding to negotiate codeshare and frequent flyer agreements with India-based Air Sahara, which operates direct flights to 23 cities in India and is one of the most successful and fastest-growing private sector airlines in that country. The cooperative agreement, subject to government approval, will allow American's customers to make easy connections throughout India. American will place its "AA" flight code on Air Sahara flights and Air Sahara will place its "S2" code on American's new service to Chicago and beyond destinations within the United States, Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean. Members of American's AAdvantage and Air Sahara's Cosmos frequent flyer programs will be able to earn and redeem frequent flyer miles on both airlines' networks.
--more--
Following is the tentative schedule for American's new service between Chicago and Delhi, pending final arrival/departure slot assignments:
CHICAGO O'HARE TO DELHI
FLIGHT DEPARTS ARRIVES
AA 292 9:10 p.m. (local time) 11:05 p.m. (local time + 1 day)

DELHI TO CHICAGO O'HARE
FLIGHT DEPARTS ARRIVES
AA 293 1:30 a.m. (local time) 5:55 a.m. (local time)
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NYC777
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:38 am

I wonder if AA will also start ops between JFK and BOM if they get more 777? Anyone knows of any plans to do that?
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:39 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 1):
I wonder if AA will also start ops between JFK and BOM if they get more 777? Anyone knows of any plans to do that?

AA does plan to start service to Bombay in 2006, but it will operate via Europe.
a.
 
cathay747
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:43 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
AA does plan to start service to Bombay in 2006, but it will operate via Europe.

MOST interesting...thanks for that!
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TUNisia
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:45 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):

AA does plan to start service to Bombay in 2006, but it will operate via Europe.

Are these route authorizations left over from TWA?
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ssides
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:46 am

Will the ORD-DEL flight tag-along to DFW?

Any chance of DFW getting a nonstop to India -- and will this affect the Air India/JET decision on whether to serve DFW or IAH?

I'm often guilty of wishful thinking on the part of DFW ...
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gigneil
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:51 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 1):
I wonder if AA will also start ops between JFK and BOM if they get more 777?

The 772ER really isn't the right eqp. for that route either. You need something a little more hefty.

Quoting TUNisia (Reply 4):
Are these route authorizations left over from TWA?

With the new open skies treaty, a lot of carriers have dormant route authorizations they're now interested in using. I think AA might have applied for these recently, tho.

Quoting Ssides (Reply 5):
Any chance of DFW getting a nonstop to India -- and will this affect the Air India/JET decision on whether to serve DFW or IAH?

Really, AA doesn't have the equipment for such a route. I would think it probably does have a bit of a bearing on which they choose, if AA operates it as a tag.

N
 
dtwclipper
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:51 am

Quoting CATHAY747 (Thread starter):
CHICAGO O'HARE TO DELHI
FLIGHT DEPARTS ARRIVES
AA 292 9:10 p.m. (local time) 11:05 p.m. (local time + 1 day)

DELHI TO CHICAGO O'HARE
FLIGHT DEPARTS ARRIVES
AA 293 1:30 a.m. (local time) 5:55 a.m. (local time

What is with these schedules out and into india? Are there any connections out of Delhi at 11:05 PM?

They always leave the sub continent in the middle of the night! OK, I guess if they waited until morning, they would not have good conex in ORD, but, it just sounds nasty!
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ssides
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:57 am

From what I understand, most flights arrive in India at a late hour like this.

And, for a US airline like AA, most of its passengers will originate in the US. This schedule allows them time to fly to ORD for connections to DEL, and to arrive, clear customs, and get connecting flights from ORD on their return trip.
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kkfla737
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:17 am

Great news. I wonder what UA will do considering they planned to fly this route twice before and circumstances led to the plans being abandoned.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:28 am

Quoting TUNisia (Reply 4):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):

AA does plan to start service to Bombay in 2006, but it will operate via Europe.

Are these route authorizations left over from TWA?

The route authorites aren't worth anything anymore. US and India have Open Skies.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 6):

With the new open skies treaty, a lot of carriers have dormant route authorizations they're now interested in using. I think AA might have applied for these recently, tho.

As I mentioned, with Open Skies, route authorities are no longer open. AA can fly between any US city and any Indian city non-stop or via a third country (though which countries is limited by other air treaties).

Quoting Ssides (Reply 5):

Any chance of DFW getting a nonstop to India -- and will this affect the Air India/JET decision on whether to serve DFW or IAH?

No. Not only do they not have the planes, there is no market at all for a non-stop. A one-stop, yes, and the AA's new service to Mumbai may originate in Dallas.
a.
 
incitatus
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:03 am

Quoting Ssides (Reply 5):
Any chance of DFW getting a nonstop to India -- and will this affect the Air India/JET decision on whether to serve DFW or IAH?

For the 777-200IGW it works as follows. Out of Delhi, a flight to Chicago will have about 95000 lbs of payload available. That's enough to carry a full load of passengers and some 25000 lbs of freight. From Delhi to Dallas the available payload would be about 65000 lbs. That's enough to fill up the plane with passengers but on strong headwind days some of those passengers may be left behind. No lift for freight. That's why we will not see DEL-DFW.
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shawnnyc
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:20 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
there is no market at all for a non-stop.

Actually if they had the plane there is definately a market for a nonstop DFW-BOM on AA (not daily but 4 times/week). Texas has a very large Indian pop. Dallas and surrounding areas have a population that is actually from the BOM area. So a nonstop to BOM would do just fine. In the end DFW is AA's hub and will have major feed. I'll tell you this Dallas and Texas have more O&D to BOM than many of the flights to Asia from US hubs. If they had the choice, AA should not do the one stop over a nonstop from DFW. AA is good at hubbing in the US and getting high paying premium traffic. This works with nonstops. DFW-BRU-BOM or something, would require them to depend too much on tourists and Euro connecting pax to India.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:23 am

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 12):

Actually if they had the plane there is definately a market for a nonstop DFW-BOM on AA (not daily but 4 times/week). Texas has a very large Indian pop. Dallas and surrounding areas have a population that is actually from the BOM area.

Toronto has the largest Indian community in Canada, and look how well their service worked out.

There is no market for Dallas-India non-stop. Not now. Maybe in 10 years.
a.
 
shawnnyc
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:37 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Toronto has the largest Indian community in Canada, and look how well their service worked out.

The Indian population in the US is over three times as large as Canada plus Indian tourist and business traffic is much higher to the US than to Canada. Also Indian Americans are the most affluent ethnic group that is tracked by the census. I don't even consider Canada to be reflective of the US-India market (just as I disregard most comparisons with Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc). It is unclear why AC stopped the nonstop (could be aircraft utialization, etc). In general I think N. American carriers should first fly nonstop to BOM as the premium traffic is much higher than to DEL (N.American carriers have always relied heavily on premium pax for profitability). Right now American airlines in general tend to fly to Asia out of their hubs and not just out of the higher O&D markets. I don't see why India should be different. Nonstops to Asia from hubs work. In DFW's case, the surrounding area actually has Indian O&D to go along with a huge regional feed.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:43 am

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 14):

The Indian population in the US is over three times as large as Canada plus Indian tourist and business traffic is much higher to the US than to Canada.

Don't underestimate the huge cultural and business ties between Canada and India. Yes, I know that the US obviously has a larger Indian population. The US is also nearly 10x larger than Canada, but Toronto and Vancouver still have two of the world's most prominent Indian communities, much more prominent than anything in Dallas or Houston.

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 14):
Also Indian Americans are the most affluent ethnic group that is tracked by the census.

Indian Canadians are just as wealthy.

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 14):
It is unclear why AC stopped the nonstop (could be aircraft utialization, etc)

Clearly, if the flight was making a healthy profit, it would not have been suspended. Yes, there are other issues that probably caused this flight to end, like aircraft utilization, but AC wouldn't have ended it if it was a strong performer. The profits were most likely minimal.

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 14):
In DFW's case, the surrounding area actually has Indian O&D to go along with a huge regional feed.

The Dallas area does have a large Indian population, but it will still be overshadowed by Chicago and New York City, at least in AA's eyes.
a.
 
jaysit
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:44 am

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 12):
Actually if they had the plane there is definately a market for a nonstop DFW-BOM on AA (not daily but 4 times/week). Texas has a very large Indian pop. Dallas and surrounding areas have a population that is actually from the BOM area. So a nonstop to BOM would do just fine.

But what makes you think they're all making multiple trips to India every year? Or that they'll all take AA? Virtually every major European carrier flies to Dallas. Delta and NW can also hub their pax through ATL, JFK or MSP/DTW. Business travellers may opt for AA (if they're on AA's FF plan), but the Mummy-Daddy-papu-bapu crowd will take whatever's cheap within certain boundaries of convenience of course. Most people don't mind a transit stop to clear their brains and stretch. And a DFW-FRA-BOM routing is perfectly acceptable in terms of relative comfort and convenience.

I'm just baffled why everyone thinks that the presence of ~ 25,000 persons of Indian ancestry in any American city is the basis for multiple nonstops to India. Even AA's ORD-DEL nonstop will avail of the connectivity that their ORD hub provides and not just focus on the large Indian community in the Chicago burbs. They can hub a fair amount of NY/NJ/CA traffic through their ORD hub.
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airxliban
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:53 am

What is the utilization of AA's 772 fleet like? Are routes going to be rearranged so as to allow the freeing up of the planes needed to operate ORD-DEL? How many planes are going to be needed to operate a daily service?
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:00 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 16):
Virtually every major European carrier flies to Dallas

British Airways and Lufthansa aren't virtually every major European carrier.

Good points though, I agree.
a.
 
shawnnyc
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:07 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 16):
I'm just baffled why everyone thinks that the presence of ~ 25,000 persons of Indian ancestry in any American city is the basis for multiple nonstops to India.

That's just it, I think AA should fly DFW-BOM because it is their HUB not because of O&D. The region around Dallas (Texas, the South, the Southwest) has plenty of Indians. The O&D Dallas provides is a great bonus (btw Dallas has over 65,000 Indians using the updated census estimates of 2003). In 2000, Indians in Texas totalled 129,000 while Koreans totalled 45,000 and Pakistanis totalled 19,000 (use the two groups as they both have flights from Texas to their respective countries). Given that the Indian population had huge in flows of immigration after the 2000 census (second only to Mexico), I think both Dallas and Houston are prime for nonstops to India especially by CO and AA.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 16):
And a DFW-FRA-BOM routing is perfectly acceptable in terms of relative comfort and convenience.

You are right, but why should AA just bow out to NW, DL or LH? India is a high growth market. Establishing your brand sooner is helpful. NW has MSP and DTW as their hubs, both have much much smaller Indian pops then DFW. AA with LAX, ORD, JFK and DFW is much more suited for India over NW.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:29 am

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 19):

That's just it, I think AA should fly DFW-BOM because it is their HUB not because of O&D.

Yes, but in that case, O'Hare is a much better hub for India service.

1) It is closer to India.
2) It has more O&D.
3) Since Chicago-India is pretty much a trans-polar route, it is the ideal jumping off place, since it receives feeds from just about everywhere in the US with no need to back-track.

A non-stop flight between Dallas and India would not only likely be heavily weight-restricted, hurting very important cargo revenue, but it would also get no feed at all from five of the most important North America-India markets: Vancouver, Chicago, New York City, New Jersey, and Toronto.

[Edited 2005-07-13 01:30:35]
a.
 
ssides
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:42 am

While I'm a bit biased toward DFW when it comes to market -- I think if they can support 3-4 weekly flights to ICN, they could do the same for India -- MAH4546 is correct (as usual) when it comes to aircraft restrictions. A long-haul flight like this needs to maximize revenue, and the cargo restrictions from DFW would simply be too much for AA to risk. ORD is a larger market, with better O&D, and a more direct route. When choosing between DFW and ORD, it's a no-brainer to go with ORD.

I'd love to see AA go DFW-ORD-DEL. Aren't they planning on going DFW-ORD-PVG?
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blrBird
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:32 am

Is the nonstop distance to BOM from US cities stopping BOM from receiving non stop service from US airlines?
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blink182
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:46 am

AA can't perform DFW-India due to aircraft range issues(as has been established). However, would Jet Airways' A340s or Air India's 747s have issues making it from DFW/IAH-India non-stop without much weight restriction?
If I am not mistaken, Air India's ex-UA 777s are less powerful than AA's, so in order to make India-Texas nonstop, 747s would have to be used.

blink
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MAH4546
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:52 am

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 22):
Is the nonstop distance to BOM from US cities stopping BOM from receiving non stop service from US airlines?

Yes. Bombay is the larger and higher-yielding market, and distance issues are largely why

Quoting Ssides (Reply 21):
Aren't they planning on going DFW-ORD-PVG?

No.

Quoting Blink182 (Reply 23):
AA can't perform DFW-India due to aircraft range issues(as has been established). However, would Jet Airways' A340s or Air India's 747s have issues making it from DFW/IAH-India non-stop without much weight restriction?
If I am not mistaken, Air India's ex-UA 777s are less powerful than AA's, so in order to make India-Texas nonstop, 747s would have to be used.

No, the A340s and 744s can't make it without, again, heavy weight restrictions that would hinder the revenue and make it unprofitable. IAH/DFW-DEL is within the outer most range limits of the 343/744, but you are really stretching it too thin.
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travelin man
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:16 am

From where is AA getting the aircraft to do this route? I do not think they are getting any new 777's this year, so which route is losing the aircraft? Are they discontinuing SJC-NRT (long-rumored), and/or RDU-LGW? Anyone know?
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:25 am

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 14):
In general I think N. American carriers should first fly nonstop to BOM as the premium traffic is much higher than to DEL

Distance becomes a problem. However, Delhi is also becoming a major world business center especially in recent years. Delhi is also one of the fastest growing Indian cities and is also a cosmopolitan city. Because it is also the poltical center of India, one can fly from DEL pretty much anywhere: from Amritsar in the north, Ahmedabad in the west, Bangalore in the south , and even Guwahati in the east.
 
B747-437B
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:32 am

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 14):
It is unclear why AC stopped the nonstop

They stopped the nonstop flight because it was a bloodbath and with very few exceptions, had been that way since day one. AC messed up the marketing and distribution of the flight straight off the bat and had been playing catchup to itself ever since.

With Air India entering the direct service market as well, and from Amritsar to boot, their largest VFR catchment market (namely the Punjabi ethnic traffic) was lost. Things were only going to get worse rather than better. I'm sure their advance sales for W05 confirmed this and they made the smart decision to cut their losses.
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jaysit
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:47 am

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 27):
They stopped the nonstop flight because it was a bloodbath and with very few exceptions, had been that way since day one. AC messed up the marketing and distribution of the flight straight off the bat and had been playing catchup to itself ever since.

How did they mess up the marketing right off the bat? By not marketing the route to US based traffic?
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cslusarc
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 11:23 am

Congradulations to AA. ORD-DEL is the only market that AA could profitably fly between the US and India NONSTOP. At 7484 mi, ORD-DEL is probably the longest route an AA 772ER could fly without significant payload and revenue-generating restrictions. It is more realistic than the potential 7794 mi ORD-HKG route.

I don't know where the above comments above DFW-INDIA nonstop came from. Right now any Texas-India nonstop flight is not technically possible until the 777-200LR comes into revenue service. (**ANY FUTURE ROUTES RECENTLY PROPOSED BY ANY INDIAN CARRIER WOULD HAVE AN INTERMEDIATE STOP IN EUROPE.**) At 8794 mi, the DFW-BOM flight would require a 777-200LR with probable revenue-generating penalties.

For those asking:
At 7318 mi, JFK-DEL seems possible for AA to fly.
At 7799 mi, JFK-BOM seems possible for AA to fly, in times of high fuel costs this flight may not be profitable with its significant revenue-generating restrictions.
At 8054 mi, ORD-BOM seems not likely for AA to fly until a 777-200LR is ordered.
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cha747
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 11:50 am

So then that begs the question from us aviationally challenged armchair CEO types...what is the ideal plane for DFW/IAH-India nonstop assuming the market is there? Which airliner can make the journey with minimal payload restrictions? A380 variant? 787? A350?
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gigneil
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:10 pm

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 29):
It is more realistic than the potential 7794 mi ORD-HKG route.

ORD-HKG is fine for an AA, DL, or CO 777. A UA 777 would be hard pressed.

UA does ORD-HKG with a 744.

N
 
Nimish
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:34 pm

Quoting CATHAY747 (Thread starter):
CHICAGO O'HARE TO DELHI
FLIGHT DEPARTS ARRIVES
AA 292 9:10 p.m. (local time) 11:05 p.m. (local time + 1 day)

For traffic connecting to other cities in India, it would great if S2 could start some 2 am flights DEL-BLR, DEL-AMD etc. That would make sure folks connecting don't mind taking this non-stop flight (in the end it would be similar to connecting via Europe, but if you're already a FF with AA, it would make a lot of sense to stick with AA/S2).
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mrniji
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:40 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 32):
For traffic connecting to other cities in India, it would great if S2 could start some 2 am flights DEL-BLR, DEL-AMD etc

You forgot MAA  Wink

I see a BIG problem of convenience btw.. if you take AI, you can check through, as ALL AI flights depart from international terminal.. with S2 and 9W domestic, you would have to clear customs at the 1st point of arrival, recheck and do a transfer to the domestic terminal (which is, believe me, a pain in the butt). Imagine a family with 3 children doing this!

Maybe AAI and GOI should rethink this procedure and do it as in the US (clear customs, put baggage back on conveyor belt).. maybe they should also integrate internatioinal and domestic in one hall! Maybe private operators could manage that better, "subject to government approval"??
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
Nimish
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:47 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 33):
I see a BIG problem of convenience

You're absolutely right on that point of domestic<->international terminal movement. OTOH, at least with the 2 am domestic departures, pax don't have to wait all night at DEL airport. That's a big saving. Of course for BLR/MAA bound pax, it's far better to connect in say FRA or LHR or CDG or AMS, and land directly in BLR/MAA. But that's not going to be attractive to the existing AA frequent flyers, who would want to fly AA ORD-DEL, it would really add to their miles and FFP status!
Incredible India!
 
texdravid
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:48 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 16):
Virtually every major European carrier flies to Dallas

Yeah, like AF or KLM flies to DFW.  Wink

DFW is too small of a market to support 777/747/A340 service to India.
The airport, and all of us who live in Texas, will have to wait on AA and the 787 to support service, and even then on a thrice weekly basis or so.

How about Jan 2010 schedule?!!
DFW-BOM 787 MWF
DFW-BLR/MAA 787 Tu/Th/Fri

Ok, so the last one is a dream, but what the hell, this is A.net!!
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
tbear815
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:20 pm

I wonder if UA will start ORD/DEL 744 service?
 
uaord2000
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:18 pm

I would not be at all shocked if UA starts the service first. We'll cross our fingers.
 
AvioGuy
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:41 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 32):

Delhi domestic airport handles its last scheduled arrival at around 12:30 am and then the airport closes so a late connection is not possible. Only domestic flights that come later are the ones that have been delayed.
the scale of my sanity is not linear..
 
Nimish
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:01 pm

Quoting AvioGuy (Reply 38):
Delhi domestic airport handles its last scheduled arrival at around 12:30 am and then the airport closes so a late connection is not possible. Only domestic flights that come later are the ones that have been delayed.

While this may well be the case at the moment, is there any reason to prevent later flights? BOM/BLR/HYD/MAA handle scheduled domestic flights every night in the wee hours (3 am, 4 am etc.)
Incredible India!
 
B747-437B
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:03 pm

Quoting AvioGuy (Reply 38):
Delhi domestic airport handles its last scheduled arrival at around 12:30 am and then the airport closes

The airport closes because there is no flight scheduled after that. If a flight were to be scheduled, the airport would remain open.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
B747-437B
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:08 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 32):
For traffic connecting to other cities in India, it would great if S2 could start some 2 am flights DEL-BLR, DEL-AMD etc.

A few issues with this.

a) Winter fog operations may be possible for CAT-III 777s, but Sahara's CRJs are not certified (and looking at the rate of their pilot turnover are unlikely to be certified anytime soon).
b) This flight represents only ~225 daily seats into a large O&D catchment market anyway. There is already oversaturation on a number of domestic routes and the addition of another service at non-prime hours will drive yields down for both AA/S2. You may draw some connecting traffic, but the overall hit to operations would likely more than negate that (9W does these flights primarily to reposition aircraft overnight and schedules them to connect with the international arrivals).
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Nimish
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:12 pm

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 41):
A few issues with this.


These are all valid points! Still if there's something stupid that can be done, my guess is that S2 is the best bet to execute it  Wink
Incredible India!
 
BOAC911
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:40 pm

This flight will finally give LH and BA a run for their money!
 
Skyguy
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:05 am

I doubt UA will reconsider launching the ORD-DEL daily 744 which was planned pre-9/11, if they do it will be a bloodbath. As it is CO is starting EWR-DEL on 11/2, add to that AA starting ORD-DEL on 11/15, plus the increased capacity via Europe from India to the US with BA/LH/AI will drive yields too low for US to justify laying on a 744 or 777. Don't see that happening in this rapidly changing market, given their dilemmas would probably see them increase frequency to some of their other Asian destinations.
"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:06 am

Quoting AvioGuy (Reply 38):

Delhi domestic airport handles its last scheduled arrival at around 12:30 am and then the airport closes so a late connection is not possible. Only domestic flights that come later are the ones that have been delayed.



Quoting B747-437B (Reply 40):
The airport closes because there is no flight scheduled after that. If a flight were to be scheduled, the airport would remain open.

does that mean if I arrived on the AA ORD-DEL flight at the regular time and attempted to connect for a flight to KHI on PK the following morning, I would have to exit the airport?
"Up the Irons!"
 
B747-437B
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:11 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 45):
if I arrived on the AA ORD-DEL flight at the regular time and attempted to connect for a flight to KHI on PK the following morning

Not sure if you have been keeping up with the news for the last 58 years, but DEL-KHI is no longer a domestic flight.  Wink
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:15 am

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 46):
Not sure if you have been keeping up with the news for the last 58 years, but DEL-KHI is no longer a domestic flight.

B747......umm..never said it was....all I was asking was that would I have to get my luggage and exit the airport, then come back the following day and have to go through security (as opposed to "chilling" out in the airport, not that I would be too crazy to do that in DEL-since I've heard the airport isn't world class like SIN,DXB,ICN)
"Up the Irons!"
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:15 am

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 35):
Yeah, like AF or KLM flies to DFW.

But Northwest and KLM are virtually one and the same. And with Delta and NW, you have AF covered as well.

But I see your point. I'm quite surprised that other European carriers don't have direct services into DFW. Perhaps, its because of fortress AA?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: AA Announces Service To DEL

Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:21 am

What is the CLOSEST U.S. station to India, and why isn't AA launching the flight from there? Whether it's Boston or New York or Miami, it seems that there is some lost capacity just getting the plane further to Chicago.

Chris in NH

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