AV8AJET
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Why No DL Service To Kona?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:36 pm

Just wondering why DL doesn't serve Kona Hawaii. I have taken the DL flight from SLC-OGG and that particular aircraft arrives in Maui at 2:20PM and then sits until 9:10PM! Why not use it with a round trip to Kona or somewhere else within Hawaii? Seems like poor utilization for a 767-400ER. Has DL only ever served HNL & OGG? I think at least NW serves Kona and maybe others.
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rhuertas70
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:03 pm

Maybe it is because AA and UA already have several daily flights to that destination making that market perhaps saturated. Also I believe that most visitors enter the Hawaiian Islands via HNL of OGG and fly to KOA via interisland service.

Actually DL has another daily flight (541) to OGG from LAX.
They also have non-stops to HNL from LAX,SFO, SLC, ATL & CVG.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:07 pm

I would doubt people fly Mainland-OGG-KOA very much. If you are going to Kona, you either fly in direct, or connect from HNL, not OGG.
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aloha73g
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:16 pm

Check the timing on DL's ATL-LAX-OGG flight. It might not sit as long as you think.

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burnsie28
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:19 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
I would doubt people fly Mainland-OGG-KOA very much. If you are going to Kona, you either fly in direct, or connect from HNL, not OGG.

You know, there is traffic just between the two cities, NW doenst have a problem filling that flight.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:28 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 4):
You know, there is traffic just between the two cities, NW doenst have a problem filling that flight.

Northwest flies to Kona because Maui's short runway can't handle a non-stop to Seattle with their 753s, so the flight must stop in Kona first. NW carries little, if any, local traffic on OGG-KOA and does not fly KOA-OGG.
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starrion
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:32 pm

I wish they did.

I'm flying to kona in November and have to stay overnight in HNL because I can't get to the big island till the following morning.
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picarus
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:24 am

Quoting AV8AJET (Thread starter):
Has DL only ever served HNL & OGG? I think at least NW serves Kona and maybe others.

I don't remember exactly when service was terminated, pre or post merger with DL, but WA flew LAX-ITO for many years.

Picarus
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:33 am

I'd say the primary reason would be lack of suitable aircraft.

Sure their 764ERs could reach the island from just about any USA destination. However, DL doesn't have some of the significant cargo contracts to there that it has to places such as HNL/OGG; thus rendering the 764ERs overkill.

The only other aircraft in DL's fleet insured for Pacific ops are the 772ERs, and methinks they just might exceed the margin of overkill as well  Wink
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Delta767300ER
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:26 am

How can NW's 753's not land at OGG, When DL's 764's and L10's did it w/ out any problems?

-Delta767300ER
 
MAH4546
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:42 am

Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 9):
How can NW's 753's not land at OGG, When DL's 764's and L10's did it w/ out any problems?

The 753 simply does not have the take-off performance to operate OGG-SEA with a full load.
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DeltaMIA
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:43 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 8):
The only other aircraft in DL's fleet insured for Pacific ops are the 772ERs, and methinks they just might exceed the margin of overkill as well

Actually the 763ER's are as well. They are periodically used as equipment subs on the ATL-HNL route and have even been scheduled on the route. However they are significant drop in capacity.
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Bluewave 707
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:24 am

As far as DL not serving KOA, KOA needs to add more gates. There are only a handfull, and airlines must schedule accordingly. Plus, no Jetways! Ever climb stairs to board a 747?

TZ uses their 753s for their OGG runs.

UA has a 772 flight from ORD that arrives @ OGG, then goes to KOA before returning to ORD. Talking with some folks @ UA, the 772 gets a full load of fuel, and drops off (& takes on more) pax. Plus, KOA has an 11K-foot runway.
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MAH4546
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:31 am

Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 12):
Ever climb stairs to board a 747?

I have, at Tel Aviv. Climbing stairs to board a 747 is very common throughout the world. In fact, outside of the US and Japan, it is very normal. Even in Europe, at airports like Madrid and Milan.
a.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:41 am

NW is in KOA because of the short runway in OGG. The 7,000 ft runway would cause significant weight restrictions on the 753 if it were to fly OGG-SEA. When NW entered the route, they initially flew the DC-10-30 SEA-OGG-SEA. Even that was marginal at best, and there were times that the aircraft would have to make a stop in HNL on the way to SEA if reverse thrust was inop. Thus in order to get around the weight restrictions, plus cater to the growing leisure market on the Big Island, NW made the route go SEA-OGG-KOA-SEA. The same holds true for NW 753 ANC-OGG-HNL-ANC, the runway limitations in OGG.

United does the same with their ORD-OGG-KOA-ORD route with the 772. They stop in OGG let off & let on passengers, continue on to KOA, let on & let off passengers and refuel to return to the mainland. AA is able to get their 763's out of OGG to ORD & DFW without much of a problem.

There is almost zero local traffic on these flights between OGG-KOA. Aloha pulled out of this route and now only Island Air flies a handful of Dash-8 flights between KOA & OGG. Look at the timing of the NW flight anyways, it leaves OGG at 7:30pm.

As others have said, DL isn't in KOA due to lack of suitable aircraft and hub locations. The West Coast-KOA market is well beyond saturated. ATL-KOA is a pipe dream. SLC-KOA could work in the future, but as said, the 764 is overkill for this route. United is the dominant force in KOA, but with the exception of their Sat. DEN service, does not operate a dedicated KOA flights any farther than the West Coast. The ORD flight is split between OGG & KOA.

As for the airport, I like the open air style, but I think the airport itself has lost its charm. It was great years ago, but its now getting too crowded for the type of operation they have fit in there. When it was just the interisland flights it was fine, but now with all the nonstops to the West Coast, its quite crowded. Security lines can back up, and it can be very hot & sweaty. Midday is the worst time when Aloha, United, & AA have multiple flights headed to the West Coast. I would hate to see it enclosed, its great walking out on the ramp and getting on the airport, and having aircraft taxi in just yards from where you are sitting. However, I doubt there will be much more in the way of additional flights into KOA, it seems rather saturated as it is.
 
as739x
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:45 am

DL767300ER..has nothing do with landing distance. It the take-off distance on OGG's runway that is the factor. The 757-300 requires more runway do to weight and longer rotation due to the lenght.

AV8Ajet..you really think DL can make money by flying a 764 over to Kona and back? With oil closing in on $70/barrel the fuel cost alone doesn't justify the hop. So aa r/t OGG-Kona makes no sense. And a stop in Kona on the way back to the mainland makes no sense when most the pax are getting on in Maui.

Are any of DL's 757's ETOPS?

They could ETOPS 738's if Kona warranted service from say LAX. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

ASSFO
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FoxBravo
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:07 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Climbing stairs to board a 747 is very common throughout the world. In fact, outside of the US and Japan, it is very normal.

Sorry to stray off-topic, but it's actually pretty common in Japan, too. JAL and ANA routinely park 747s at remote stands at NRT and board/deplane via stairs. As I recall they use the covered stairs, so you're only exposed to the elements for a moment between the stairs and the bus, but stairs nonetheless.

Getting back to KOA, I have always liked the open-air design, but I agree that it's more pleasant in the evening when the hot sun isn't beating down. I love that first hit of fresh Hawaiian air as you stand at the top of the airstairs after a long flight across the ocean.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:10 am

Current mainland KOA service:

American:
KOA-LAX 757
KOA-LAX 757

United:
KOA-LAX 757
KOA-LAX 757
KOA-SFO 763
KOA-SFO 757
KOA-ORD 777 (from OGG)
KOA-DEN 757 (Sat. only)

Northwest:
KOA-SEA 753 (from OGG)

ATA:
KOA-LAX 753

Aloha:
KOA-SNA 73G
KOA-OAK 73G

Thus, DL flying from Southern California doesn't bring much to the table. Unlike at least AA & United who can offer some connecting opportunities in LAX
 
stirling
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:27 am

Quoting Picarus (Reply 7):
don't remember exactly when service was terminated, pre or post merger with DL, but WA flew LAX-ITO for many years

For a period of time, the only two cities reachable via nonstop flights from the mainland were HNL and ITO. If carriers served an additional destination in Hawai'i, it was always Hilo.

United, Western, Continental, Northwest Orient, and PanAmerican, as for example. (PA wasn't very long)

United was first to venture beyond Honolulu, followed by American.
Mid Eighties is when things changed; Maui (Kahului) replacing Hilo as Hawai'i's second city.
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N1120A
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:34 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
Northwest flies to Kona because Maui's short runway can't handle a non-stop to Seattle with their 753s,



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
The 753 simply does not have the take-off performance to operate OGG-SEA with a full load.

That is completely untrue. The 753 does not have the same take-off performance as the 752, but it is still excelent. TZ has flown the 753 on LAS-OGG and that is farther than OGG-SEA. OGG-SEA is only about 130nm farther than OGG-LAX, which is also daily with TZ. OGG-SEA should not be a problem for NW unless the PW2000 is even worse an engine than I thought
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jsnww81
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:00 am

Stirling brings up a good point about Hilo... ITO was developed to be the "second gateway" to the islands, which explains why Hilo has an enormous seven-gate terminal and only two jetways that ever get used.

During regulated times, ITO was pretty busy and even had nonstop DC8 flights to Chicago (on United, of course). Back then the CAB mandated that everyone serve Hilo, so ITO had flights by United, Continental, Northwest, Pan Am and Western. There was even a rule called the "Maui Fence" that stipulated if you flew into Honolulu and traveled to any of the islands other than Maui (meaning Kauai, Hawaii, Molokai or Lanai) you HAD to fly back out via Hilo. Must have caused a lot of headaches for the travel agents back then!

As for Kona, it didn't really start to boom until the runway was extended to 11,000 feet back in the early 1990s. United has served Kona since (I believe) 1986, but before the runway extension I think their flights operated via HNL.

At one point there were plans to build a new T-shaped second-level gate area, with jetways, protruding onto the apron (between the two terminals they have today) but those plans got shelved. The new extension would have had the same "hut-style" architecture, but would have been enclosed and air conditioned. The ground-level ticketing and baggage claim huts would have stayed the same.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:07 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):

That is completely untrue. The 753 does not have the same take-off performance as the 752, but it is still excelent. TZ has flown the 753 on LAS-OGG and that is farther than OGG-SEA. OGG-SEA is only about 130nm farther than OGG-LAX, which is also daily with TZ. OGG-SEA should not be a problem for NW unless the PW2000 is even worse an engine than I thought

Well, tell that to Northwest. That's the reason they had to make the stop in Kona. It was originally going to be SEA-OGG-SEA, but the plane could not make it to Seattle non-stop without payload penalities.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:13 am

It very well could be the PW engines on the 753. When NW made the switch from DC-10 to 753 on the SEA-OGG route, they initially were having to weight restrict about 20-30 seats out of OGG, hence when they added in the circular routing through KOA.
 
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ua2162
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:32 am

Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 12):
As far as DL not serving KOA, KOA needs to add more gates. There are only a handful, and airlines must schedule accordingly. Plus, no Jetways! Ever climb stairs to board a 747?

You hit the nail on the head! I have been saying this for years. KOA could serve more destinations and airlines if they only added gates and terminal space. TZ just added service and they share a six foot counter with NW and North America. It's getting way too crowded and it's only going to get worse, especially now that America West plans on flying sometime in 2006. Kona is growing like crazy and the airport needs to do the same.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 14):
However, I doubt there will be much more in the way of additional flights into KOA, it seems rather saturated as it is.

I'll have to disagree with you here. I think a ATL-KOA flight will do well, especially with all the new developments on the Kohala Coast. Kona is now a destination, not just a stop over on your Hawaiian vacation. One more reason for KOA to expand.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 17):
Current mainland KOA service:

American:
KOA-LAX 757
KOA-LAX 757

United:
KOA-LAX 757
KOA-LAX 757
KOA-SFO 763
KOA-SFO 757
KOA-ORD 777 (from OGG)
KOA-DEN 757 (Sat. only)

Northwest:
KOA-SEA 753 (from OGG)

ATA:
KOA-LAX 753

Aloha:
KOA-SNA 73G
KOA-OAK 73G

Don't forget Ryan International's OAK service on Sun and Mon (757), JL's daily TKO (747 or DC10) and North America's OAK route (757). AC also does seasonal service (I think service will come back this winter.)
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:51 am

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 11):
Actually the 763ER's are as well. They are periodically used as equipment subs on the ATL-HNL route and have even been scheduled on the route.

Interesting.

I remember those aircraft running the re-inauguration of the route while the 764ERs were getting the crew rest arrangement, but from what was discussed by the FlyerTalk fools, it was under a temporary allotment of insurance.


Is that not the case? So the 763ERs remain insured for Tpac ops even now?
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rhuertas70
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:01 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 17):
KOA-DEN 757 (Sat. only)

KOA-DEN in a 757?
At 3329 miles it maybe the longest non-stop flight for a UA 757.
 
rhuertas70
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:14 am

The only way one may see a DL764 in KOA is if they fly from the mainland to LIH then do:

LIH-OGG
OGG-KOA

and back to the mainland.

The problem is that I'm not sure if LIH runways can handle 764s.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:19 am

Quoting Rhuertas70 (Reply 26):
The only way one may see a DL764 in KOA is if they fly from the mainland to LIH then do:

LIH-OGG
OGG-KOA

and back to the mainland.

That would be the absolute worst idea ever. No passenger is going to want to sit through 2 stop overs. The passengers going to KOA would be subjected to an extra 3 hours on the aircraft. Same goes for passengers leaving LIH. That simply isn't done, and it makes no sense.

Quoting UA2162 (Reply 23):
I'll have to disagree with you here. I think a ATL-KOA flight will do well, especially with all the new developments on the Kohala Coast. Kona is now a destination, not just a stop over on your Hawaiian vacation. One more reason for KOA to expand.

I agree, the Kohala Coast is an excellent destination, I was just there about 2 weeks ago. However, you can really tell the West Coast influence on the island. The vast majority of people were from California. ATL-KOA could work, but nothing more than a 757, and thats out of range. There are a lot of other really good vacation options for people on the East Coast including Florida, the Carribean, Bahamas, Mexico, & Central America that are a lot short, and in some ways not as expensive as Hawaii.


btw, yes United's Sat. only DEN-KOA is operated with a 757.
 
dl757md
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:45 am

Guys,

I just ran across this thread, been away for awhile, and I have good news for you. Delta is planning SLC-KOA. Heard it at work last week. Don't know anything more than that right now but I'll find out the particulars and get back with you.

Dl757Md
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ikramerica
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:56 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
The 753 simply does not have the take-off performance to operate OGG-SEA with a full load.

With the same wing and engines as the overpowered 752, the 753 becomes underpowered. OGG can get hot and humid, and with more weather concerns in SEA than LAX or PHX, they might need to have more reserve fuel?

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 14):
There is almost zero local traffic on these flights between OGG-KOA

Not zero, but not a lot. HA does fly the route, one flight a day. From Kona, it goes OGG then on to HNL as 157. I was on that flight in February, and it took off about 2/3 full from KOA, dropped less that 1/3 of the pax at OGG, and filled up for HNL.

From OGG to KOA, it is flight 160, but 160 originates OGG and terminates KOA. Not sure why 160 isn't also HNL-OGG.
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ua2162
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:58 am

I just ran across this thread, been away for awhile, and I have good news for you. Delta is planning SLC-KOA. Heard it at work last week. Don't know anything more than that right now but I'll find out the particulars and get back with you.

This would be great. However, I don't know where they would put them. My only guess is that HA would operate the flight for them (as far as airport operations.)

[Edited 2005-07-14 05:01:09]
 
rhuertas70
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:04 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 27):
That would be the absolute worst idea ever. No passenger is going to want to sit through 2 stop overs. The passengers going to KOA would be subjected to an extra 3 hours on the aircraft. Same goes for passengers leaving LIH. That simply isn't done, and it makes no sense.

Ok perhaps I'm pushing it . Take OGG out. Has anybody tried Mainland-LIH-KOA-Mainland in the past?
The only advantage is that I don't think that any of the major carriers flies LIH-KOA straight and maybe there is a hidden market there by avoiding to connect through HNL to travel between Kauai and the Big Island. DL can kill two birds with one shot. Same equipment (764, 763 or whatever) to serve both LIH and KOA on the same flight.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:07 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 29):
Not zero, but not a lot. HA does fly the route, one flight a day. From Kona, it goes OGG then on to HNL as 157. I was on that flight in February, and it took off about 2/3 full from KOA, dropped less that 1/3 of the pax at OGG, and filled up for HNL.

I didn't mean zero overall, but zero on those flights operated by NW & United between OGG & KOA. Those flights are one-way and cannot be purchased as a roundtrip, plus there is minimal demand to fly from OGG-KOA at 7:30-8pm. United, maybe, but I don't know how eager NW & UA are to sell tickets to local traffic, versus mainland bound passengers.

The interisland flights are not what they used to be, both Aloha & Hawaiian have significantly cut back their interisland schedule. This is due to:
1) increased nonstops from the mainland to the outer islands
2) increased ticket prices
3) perceived post 9/11 hassles

People want cheap interisland fares, unfortunetely air service does not come cheap. Just look how both AQ & HA ended up in Ch. 11.

OGG-KOA used to be flown multiple times per day by Aloha on 737-200's and Hawaiian on DC-9's then 717's. As of now, Aloha has completely pulled out of OGG-KOA, and Hawaiian offers 1 lone flight per day. Island Air has picked up this route, but only offers about 5 Dash-8 flights per day.

Same goes for LIH-KOA. Aloha & Hawaiian have cut out most of their trips that bypass HNL. The market is there, but nowhere near enough to fill 767's. More like Dash-8's as Island Air has done.

These aircraft, the 777's & 763's were not intended to fly 100 mile short hops. These short cycles are very uneconomical, but are only performed in order to get around the issues at OGG.
 
texdravid
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:11 pm

Quoting Rhuertas70 (Reply 25):
KOA-DEN in a 757?
At 3329 miles it maybe the longest non-stop flight for a UA 757.

It sure is. I just got back from Kona.
I flew IAH-DEN-KOA-DEN-IAH on UA.

The 757-200 is obviously ETOPS certified. The flight was good both to and from Denver. I received two free meals coming and going, which is something compared to what my brother and his family got going DFW-LAX-KOA-HNL-DFW on AA, which is NOTHING!!

The Kona coast is growing by leaps and bounds and it is certainly grown to compete with Maui as Hawaii's "second" city for tourists.

Having praised UA, I still think it is better if you are NOT in LAX, SFO OR DEN to fly your carrier to HNL and then interisland it to KOA. That way, on the way back to your city, you can fly from HNL direct nonstop to the mainland ( a huge number of flights). You arrive in the early am, and have the rest of the day to catch up on sleep and get over jetlag. If you fly like me and connect in DEN to IAH, your whole next day gets lost.
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ha763
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:06 pm

Quoting Rhuertas70 (Reply 26):
The problem is that I'm not sure if LIH runways can handle 764s.

Yes it can. LIH has had DC-10s fly non-stop from the mainland. I believe SunTrips used to use a Ryan Intl DC-10. They then would fly LIH-HNL due to runway length and fuel availablity at LIH.

Quoting Rhuertas70 (Reply 31):
Has anybody tried Mainland-LIH-KOA-Mainland in the past?

No.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 29):
OGG can get hot and humid, and with more weather concerns in SEA than LAX or PHX, they might need to have more reserve fuel?

It doesn't get that hot and OGG is basically at sea level with very strong headwinds coming off the ocean, which allows non-stops to ORD on 763s and IAH on 764s with slight weight restrictions. The winds tend to get up to 30 mph.
 
dl757md
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:10 pm

Just confirmed at work that Delta will commence once daily nonstop service SLC-KOA and back on Dec 1, 2005. They will utilize 767-400 equipment.

Dl757Md
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ua2162
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RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:45 am

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 35):
Just confirmed at work that Delta will commence once daily nonstop service SLC-KOA and back on Dec 1, 2005. They will utilize 767-400 equipment.

Wow! A 764 at KOA. I think the route will do well. DL will probably fill this flight with connections from ATL. I just hope KOA can handle the increased traffic. It should be interesting to see the gate areas with a full 764 (not to mention any other flight that's waiting to depart.) Any word on the times of the flight?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:56 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
Well, tell that to Northwest. That's the reason they had to make the stop in Kona. It was originally going to be SEA-OGG-SEA, but the plane could not make it to Seattle non-stop without payload penalities.

Still makes no sense given the range and the fact that it is the Eastbound, with the wind.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 29):
With the same wing and engines as the overpowered 752, the 753 becomes underpowered.

Not at all. The 753 still has performance on par with the A32S or 737NG

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 29):
OGG can get hot and humid

Humidity does not really matter in this discussion as it does not thin the air. The heat is almost never as bad as LAS or PHX in the summer and the airport is right on the water, meaning it is not high at all. We are certainly not talking DXB here.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24558
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:01 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 37):

Still makes no sense given the range and the fact that it is the Eastbound, with the wind.

The fact that it is eastbound makes a lot of sense, even with the wind. It is because of Maui's very short runway.
a.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:07 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 38):
It is because of Maui's very short runway

Again, TZ already shoots that in the foot
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24558
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:42 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 39):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 38):
It is because of Maui's very short runway

Again, TZ already shoots that in the foot

No, because TZ 753s are equipped with different engines.

I don't know the exact details other than the fact that when Northwest started OGG-SEA with 753s, they were block as many as 30 seats off each flight because the 753 couldn't make it full to Maui. So, they decided to go to Kona. Simple ast that.
a.
 
rhuertas70
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:25 am

RE: Why No DL Service To Kona?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:56 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 40):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 39):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 38):
It is because of Maui's very short runway

Again, TZ already shoots that in the foot

No, because TZ 753s are equipped with different engines.

I don't know the exact details other than the fact that when Northwest started OGG-SEA with 753s, they were block as many as 30 seats off each flight because the 753 couldn't make it full to Maui. So, they decided to go to Kona. Simple ast that.

Here a comparison of the engines that the 757-300 employs according to the Boeing website.

RR:
RB-211-535E4B (43500 lbs of thrust)

PW:
PW2037(36600 lbs of thrust)
PW2040 (40100 lbs of thrust)
PW2043(42600 lbs of thrust))


From the A/C history section in this site:
Cruising speed Mach 0.80. Range with 240 passengers 6055km (3270nm) with RB-211s, 6455km (3485nm) with PW-2043s.

The question is which PW engine version does NW uses?

If NW uses the PW2043 do 900 lbs make that big of a difference?
I don't know. Also the PW2043 gives the 753 an additional ~200NM of range.
I can buy into the engine theory if NW uses either the PW2040 or 2037 on their 753 fleet. But if they use the PW2043, which adds ~5 % of range I am not so sure.

Perhaps there are other factors involved like for example different aircraft seat configuration or greater overhead bin sizes in NW 753 planes allowing passengers to put more weight into their overheads.

Anyway, it is an interesting topic of discussion.