MaverickM11
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Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:34 am

Considering the first 6 months of the DXB/JFK nonstop ran under a 62% average load factor, either things really turned around or they have a very low break even load factor with a full premium cabin...

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050713/nyw094.html?.v=13
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
N77014
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:52 am

Yield is the key here.
A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies...
 
LUV4JFK
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:30 am

Yes, but will that second flight generate enough yield for this flight to be successful? Only time will tell. Anyway, good to see they are making money on the route.

LUV4JFK
 yes 
John F. Kennedy International Airport: Where America Greets The World.
 
B742
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:34 am

Are the cargo loads good on these flights?

Great to see another EK flight at JFK!

Whats the latest on EZE, SFO, LAX.....?

Rob!
 
panam330
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:57 am

The new eastbound flight has great timing, IMO. EK has the non-stop market to itself- they are almost without a doubt rolling in the dough on this route. Will the second daily dilute yield a little? Yes. But with two dailies and still a relatively healthy yield coming in, they'll still make some pretty nice profits. This is great news, and I wish them the best of luck  Smile!
 
avek00
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:05 am

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 4):
EK has the non-stop market to itself- they are almost without a doubt rolling in the dough on this route.

EK is not going after the USA-DXB market with the route - indeed, there is little ex-USA demand to Dubai to speak of with a straight face. Rather, the JFK-DXB flights are intended to bring pax to DXB to connect onto flights to the Indian Subcontinent.

Which of course raises a new issue: What will happen with EK's plans to dump capacity (esp. A380s) on the North American market given that USA and Indian carriers can fly between the two countries without restriction?
Live life to the fullest.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:07 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 3):
Are the cargo loads good on these flights?

I've heard that there is a good cargo load on this route and they really don't need to fill up all the pax seats..

I'm hoping they will switch to the -200LR for this route, maybe I'll fly on this route again..

----------

""With flights that depart in both the morning and the evening, Emirates will provide greater service and access for business and leisure travelers from North America to the Middle East and destinations beyond."

The non-stop service enables passengers from New York to connect in Dubai to other destinations in Africa, the Indian sub-continent and Asia Pacific and reduce layover and overall flying times.""


interesting..that is what I said AA should do with its ORD-DEL flight.

[Edited 2005-07-13 19:16:19]
"Up the Irons!"
 
CRJ900
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:13 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 5):
Which of course raises a new issue: What will happen with EK's plans to dump capacity (esp. A380s) on the North American market given that USA and Indian carriers can fly between the two countries without restriction?

If EK introduce industry-leading comfort, service and IFE on their A380s at attractive prices people will flock to fly them US-DXB-India, no worries there...
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:32 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 7):
If EK introduce industry-leading comfort, service and IFE on their A380s

It's all about the price being low enough to make a connection worthwhile.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
shawnnyc
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:39 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 7):
If EK introduce industry-leading comfort, service and IFE on their A380s at attractive prices people will flock to fly them US-DXB-India, no worries there...

I actually disagree. To my knowledge EK has not done well getting pax JFK-DXB-BOM. In fact going by what I see, and it is my own observations only, people in India and Indian-Americans tend to want to avoid flying middle eastern carriers when equal options exist. EK needed to start the second flight in a sense to make the NYC service viable. Other than BOM, other Indian cities had a long wait for connections in one direction. With so many new routes opening up to South India, EK would have even lost those pax (up until recently Southern India had very few choices other than gulf carriers). Even though EK has good connection times to BOM, BOM has the most flight options for other airlines which are more popular than EK on the BOM-JFK route. So depending on BOM traffic is not a good option.

So I actually think this is a great move on EK's part to focus their attention on cities outside of BOM with good connections to the US. That said, I think they have a hard fight ahead given the substantially incresed number of flights and players to formally underserved cities like MAA. On another note, I think EK will dominate the NYC-Pakistan route given that they will now have great connections both ways and Pakistan has unfortunately not yet witnessed an increase in Western airlines opperating there.
 
N77014
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:40 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 5):
Which of course raises a new issue: What will happen with EK's plans to dump capacity (esp. A380s) on the North American market given that USA and Indian carriers can fly between the two countries without restriction?

Yes without restriction; but the nonstops USA-India are not for the price sensitive shopper in this market. A380's allow economy of scale in a convenient 1 stop format, with more connecting possibilities than any european carrier.
A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies...
 
KL808
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:52 am

I guess this will co-inside with the delivery of the extra 2 A340-500's.

This is great news indeed. 2x daily wow.

Drew
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
jacobin777
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:38 am

Quoting Shawnnyc (Reply 9):
I think EK will dominate the NYC-Pakistan route given that they will now have great connections both ways and Pakistan has unfortunately not yet witnessed an increase in Western airlines opperating there.

PK still have good demand for their JFK -Pakistan routes too(4X/weekly), and they also use the 777's now on Fridays and Sundays....(along with the 747 on Wednesdays and Saturdays).

I've heard along (possibly in replacement) with IAH, PK might use the -200LR on this route, which would not be beneficial for EK.....why hub @ DXB when one can fly direct

PK can setup a better times also for arrival and departures...

I've flown on EK from JFK-DXB-KHI..I'm not too crazy about the connection times (1:00 a.m. @DXB) and 4:30 a.m in KHI

if PK can fly nonstop and arrive in Pakistan early morning, that would be one up on EK.
"Up the Irons!"
 
rjpieces
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:48 am

Great news! I wonder why they chose to start a 2nd daily flight rather than start service to another US city.

From what I've heard, the yields and cargo were doing well but EK's reputation didn't take off in NYC.

Statement from the press release: North America is an important market for Emirates. Our move to increase flights is a direct result of strong customer demand for Emirates' passenger and cargo services, and it signals our commitment and confidence in the growth of the market," said Nigel Page, Emirates Senior Vice President, Commercial Operations, The Americas.

Maybe they are doing better than everyone on A.net has said.......

What will happen with EK's plans to dump capacity (esp. A380s) on the North American market given that USA and Indian carriers can fly between the two countries without restriction?

That is a worry on the horizon. Major carriers are also scared of what might happen if EK starts flying some North Atlantic routes, since those are some of the most profitable routes left.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
B747-437B
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:03 am

Has anybody noticed that with the announcement of this flight, their proposed DXB-NGO flight has disappeared from the systems? Interesting...
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
shawnnyc
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:05 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 13):
I wonder why they chose to start a 2nd daily flight rather than start service to another US city

My guess is that to make the NY flight work for connections to the subcontinent they needed the second flight as many cities had long waits in one direction. If they started a second city, they would have the same problem, a flight that worked well in one direction for connection but not the other direction.
 
rjpieces
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:23 am

If they started a second city, they would have the same problem, a flight that worked well in one direction for connection but not the other direction.

What are the connection bank times at DXB?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
emirates777
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:47 am

B747-437B
Yes Nagoya has been deferred until further notice in order to accomodate the 2nd JFK.

Rgds
Emirates777
 
B747-437B
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:51 am

Quoting Emirates777 (Reply 17):
Yes Nagoya has been deferred until further notice in order to accomodate the 2nd JFK.

Serious question though - was Nagoya ever truly intended to be operated - or was it simply a tactical block to keep Etihad from getting all 14 of the available frequencies for W05?
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
ricardofg
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:02 am

2x to jfk and still not one yyz flight.......a lot of middle east travellers here!
 
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STT757
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:33 pm

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 7):
If EK introduce industry-leading comfort, service and IFE on their A380s at attractive prices people will flock to fly them US-DXB-India, no worries there...

People will always choose a nonstop over a connection, the only X factor is if there's significant price savings.

An airline can offer all the luxury and amenities they want but it still does not compete with a hotel or one's own bed for comfort, and if a nonstop gets you home quicker that's more valuable.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
ETStar
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:28 pm

I have to say that, on a number of occasions when I have inquired in western Canada with travel agents that do not specialize in travel to Africa, the first airline that pops to their mind is not BA, AF, LH who have regular services into Africa, but EK, who does not even fly to this part of the world. Agents suggest flying into Europe, then to DXB then on to your final destination. Also, I know of people flying into places like Kenya who pretty much don't want to fly the most direct route, and opt for a few hours in DXB by doing something like YVR-LHR-DXB-NBO, while BA and KQ serve LHR-NBO with up to two daily flights. There are pax who value EK, and do not care if they go out of their way to get to their final destination.

Maybe that's what I will do the next time I head to ADD, a few hours in DXB won't hurt. Could do CX YVR-JFK, EK JFK-DXB, ET DXB-ADD. Unless of course, something cooks up with G0 getting me there through ACC  Smile
 
LAXintl
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:28 pm

According to Emirates Senior VP-Commercial Operations-the Americas Nigel Page characterized load factors on the 14-hr. flight as "extremely high since December." The route has been profitable for "a long time now,"

http://www.atwonline.com/news/other.html?issueDate=7%2F14%2F2005

Having tried to book business class on this flight several times, I can confirm the premium cabin does sell out, oftens days in advance.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
rjpieces
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:33 pm

Having tried to book business class on this flight several times, I can confirm the premium cabin does sell out, oftens days in advance.

Any idea who the majority of pax are? Americans heading to Dubai, or Americans connecting, or Indians connecting or what?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
LAXintl
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:00 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 23):
Any idea who the majority of pax are? Americans heading to Dubai, or Americans connecting, or Indians connecting or what?

My general observation are that the Emirates flight appeals to a wide variety of passengers headed both the UAE and beyond.

Both Americans and a range of ethnicities make use of the Emirates Dubai hub to connect beyond to destinations thruout the Middle East , East Africa and Indian sub continent. I've also seen people head further afield to Malaysia, Singapore and even Australia. The 2nd flight certainly will provide even more connection opportunities for all these passengers.

I could very easily even see an eventual 3rd JFK flight sooner or later as the demand for the current evening departure is quite strong.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
EK156
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:47 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 20):
People will always choose a nonstop over a connection, the only X factor is if there's significant price savings.

Not always if it a very long haul. I would rather connect and relax in a Terminal for 2 hours or so rather than doing a 16 or 18 hours flight!! I think alot of other people also would rather connect than take a very long flight.

Then again I might be wrong!
 
NorthstarBoy
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:32 pm

Quoting EK156 (Reply 25):
. I would rather connect and relax in a Terminal for 2 hours or so rather than doing a 16 or 18 hours flight!! I think alot of other people also would rather connect than take a very long flight.

Then again I might be wrong!

no, you're not wrong lol, i'm the same way, that's why i've never been to Australia, i can't stand the idea of spending 17 hours suspended over water!

yet, i have this completely insane desire to fly the kangaroo route some day

i wonder though, since it seems to be proving so profitable for EK, if MAS regrets getting out of the NYC-Dubai Maket, and finally, how come i can't pull up the PIA flights in one of my GDS's?
Yes, I'd like to see airbus go under so Boeing can have their customers!
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:20 pm

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 14):
Has anybody noticed that with the announcement of this flight, their proposed DXB-NGO flight has disappeared from the systems? Interesting...

... and has anyone noticed that the double daily DXB-PER service has also been taken off??

hhhhmmmm....
 
avek00
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:15 pm

Quoting EK156 (Reply 25):
Not always if it a very long haul.

Not true at all - nonstops are almost universally preferred by premium travelers - vacationers might take a one-stop if a large price differential exists, but no sane airline would structure a longhaul business model solely around them anyways.
Live life to the fullest.
 
CaptainZed
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:43 pm

I would rather see a non-stop flight to Toronto, Montreal, Washington or LA..

What's the secret behind not having yet considered any flight to Toronto?

A flight a day is competitive, two flights a day is a message.
 
AEROFAN
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:36 pm

I tried non revving on EK to NZ last november. I couldn't get out of JFK for several days. Flights were full.

My observations , most of the pax were from the Indian subcontinent with a few anglo sax thrown in

My contacts at EK tell me that the route is profitable for them
 
lh477
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:00 pm

If AC's downgrading of YYZ-DEL is any indication, then EK may not have anything worry about.
Come on you gunners......!!!!!
 
sparkingwave
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:20 pm

Wow. Interesting. A double daily flight between Dubai and New York. On A340-500s no less.

I invite anyone to correct me or comment if I am wrong, but it seems that Emirates is promoting more frequencies over higher capacity, to provide more scheduling options for passengers. Doesn't this gesture refute justification for the A380?

I'm bad at math, so someone help me out here. If Emirates is making profits off this route with the A340-500, wouldn't an A340-600 , B747-400, or B777-200/300 ER generate more revenue?

Besides fleet commonality and fluctuating market demands, what other variables account for EK's choice of aircraft and additional frequency?


Sparkingwave
Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
 
yul332LX
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:50 pm

Quoting CaptainZed (Reply 29):
What's the secret behind not having yet considered any flight to Toronto?

They are considering YYZ, but they'd be limited to three flights/week as per the bilateral for the next several months.

Hardly interesting for a carrier like EK.
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
avek00
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:08 am

Quoting Sparkingwave (Reply 32):
If Emirates is making profits off this route with the A340-500, wouldn't an A340-600 , B747-400, or B777-200/300 ER generate more revenue?

If increased demand is there at current or higher fares, yes. If not, the airline would be setting itself up for losses.
Live life to the fullest.
 
CaptainZed
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:16 am

With Middle Easterns having a harder time to get into the US, and US visas are getting the hardest to get, it'll get worst in the future, EK is definitely targeting other's markets, the asian one in particular.

Transiting is as good a business as re-exports.
 
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STT757
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:27 am

Quoting EK156 (Reply 25):
Not always if it a very long haul. I would rather connect and relax in a Terminal for 2 hours or so rather than doing a 16 or 18 hours flight!! I think alot of other people also would rather connect than take a very long flight.

Time is money, as the saying goes. Leisure folks probably would like to take the break on these Ultra-long haul flights, Business travelers who often have to make these grueling trips will much rather prefer to get it over with and get back to the office or family.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:33 am

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 14):
Has anybody noticed that with the announcement of this flight, their proposed DXB-NGO flight has disappeared from the systems? Interesting...



Quoting Emirates777 (Reply 17):
Yes Nagoya has been deferred until further notice in order to accomodate the 2nd JFK.



Quoting B747-437B (Reply 18):
Serious question though - was Nagoya ever truly intended to be operated - or was it simply a tactical block to keep Etihad from getting all 14 of the available frequencies for W05?

The proposed second daily DXB-PER was given up to accomodate the proposed daily DXB-NGO, which was nothing else than a shameless smoke screen to block Etihad's obtaining all 14 available frequencies and which is now being given up for the second daily DXB-JFK. I wonder whether the respective authorities will interfere or whether EK has already committed itself to actually start operating the 7 frequencies it has been awarded in the near future.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:40 am

So does anyone know - is EK subisidzed by the goverments of the UAE? Could these flights be subsidized by oil money perhaps? Just a crazy thought.
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:08 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 38):
So does anyone know - is EK subisidzed by the goverments of the UAE? Could these flights be subsidized by oil money perhaps? Just a crazy thought.

Yes, a crazy thought.

EK is not subsidized by the Dubai Govt. Their accounts are audited by PWC. They simply use a strategy which is a little too much for some people to grasp.

Also, Dubai has no oil.

In some markets, Australia being one, EK operates under a seperate ASA.
In Australia EK utilises Dubai-Australia rights, while Gulf Air and Etihad etc, would operate under the UAE-Australia ASA.

Does anyone know of any other places where this is occuring?
 
jacobin777
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RE: Second Daily DXB/JFK On EK!

Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:23 pm

Quoting YUL332LX (Reply 33):
They are considering YYZ, but they'd be limited to three flights/week as per the bilateral for the next several months.

they are going to have some competition with Etihad, as Etihad will commence that route soon.

http://www.etihadairways.com/presentation/default.aspx
"Up the Irons!"

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