timz
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Snapshot: OAG Trivia December 1986

Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:55 am

Another auction listing with more trivia, from the 12/86 North American OAG:

Looks like this was the first winter for main line jets into Hayden: eff 20 Dec AA will have daily 72Ss from ORD and DFW, and the same day PS will start weekly M80s from SFO and twice-weekly from LAX. The previous winter, HDN had one scheduled flight a week, an Aspen 146 from Denver. This winter, EGE has one scheduled flight a week, a Royal West 146 from LAX; Royal West also flies LAX-GUC (but Gunnison also gets AA 72Ss from DFW).

(Other Royal West routes: ONT-LAS/RNO, BUR-LAS/RNO (BUR-LAS six 146s a day), LAX-LAS one 146 and three 727s, LAX-RNO two 146s and one 727.)

Somebody explained about Skybus (SkyBus?) that has a couple DC9 roundtrips LGA-DCA under an NY code. NY has a hub at IAD, also many EWR-BOS/DCA flights and some EWR-DTW/CLE/MSY. They also fly HPN-DCA and BOS-JFK. Republic and Frontier disappeared earlier in 1986.

Sure nuff, Western flies a 733 four round trips LGA-BOS, flights 60 thru 67; Eastern and Pan Am are both flying hourly A300s LGA-BOS. NY and PE fly EWR-BOS.

Eff 10 Dec EA has a twice-weekly L10 LAX-ORD-LGA-- I didn't know they ever flew either of those segments. Jet America must have hit the lottery-- they fly LGB-ORD-DCA and eff 15 Dec they'll do DCA-MSP-SEA-PDX-LAS.

Looks like EA still has the Moonlight Special-- they now have no other nonstops to IAH from LAX, SFO, SEA-PDX, NY, or BOS-PHL. Eff 10 Dec EA will be flying the DC-10, A300, L10 and 757 MIA-JFK-- anybody think of another airline that flew four different jetliner makes on one airport-pair at the same time? PA has an A310 MIA-JFK; where else did they fly the 310 domestic?

McClain Airlines is all 727: 4/day LAX-ORD and, eff 15 Dec, 1/day PHX-LAX and 2/day PHX-ORD. UA still has 767 BUR-ORD: 2/day thru 14 Dec, then one. I knew about AirCal's 733s SNA-ORD, but what on earth are they doing flying 73Ms ("Boeing 737-200 mixed passenger/freighter") SEA-ANC four times each weekday?

Total Air, Hawaiian and TW are all flying L10s LAX-HNL; Total Air also has a weekly L10 LAX-NAS. TW has a daily 747 STL-HNL, thru from JFK 3/week. Why did CO fly JFK-HNL 3/week and YVR-HNL 4/week? HA has a daily DC8 (-62?) PDX-HNL eff 13 Dec.

TW, UA and EA fly nonstop PHL-LAX; PHL has no other nonstops west of Denver. No nonstop to LAS from EWR/JFK; no nonstops MCO/FLL-LAX. CO will fly a 733 TPA-LAX eff 15 Dec.

Eff 15 Dec UA has a Friday-only 72S ORD-LGA-JFK, the return is Saturday-only. So far I haven't ever seen any other LGA-JFK jet nonstops; that may be the shortest-ever US jet schedule, by distance. Speaking of short: PE has four 72S/73S BDL-EWR sched 50-55 minutes, and PI has a 45-minute 73S-- but Holiday Airlines schedules their nine Twin Otter flights in 50 minutes. PBA (PE*) has five Cessnas a day EWR-FRG.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia December 1986

Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:00 am

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
MIA-JFK-- anybody think of another airline that flew four different jetliner makes on one airport-pair at the same time

AA's seven daily MIA-JFK flights are 1x 762, 1x 763, 1x 757, 4x A300.
a.
 
timz
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia December 1986

Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:02 am

Not four models-- four manufacturers.
 
stirling
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia December 1986

Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:07 am

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
Somebody explained about Skybus (SkyBus?) that has a couple DC9 roundtrips LGA-DCA under an NY code.

That would have been ME!  Smile

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
I knew about AirCal's 733s SNA-ORD, but what on earth are they doing flying 73Ms ("Boeing 737-200 mixed passenger/freighter") SEA-ANC four times each weekday?

I remember the SEA-ANC route....but never knew it was 4X/M-F!
Wonder if they had a freight contract? Can you tell if the flight continued south for SFO or SoCal? Fresh seafood/King Crab makes sense...but 4 times a day? Hmmmmm.

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
Eff 10 Dec EA will be flying the DC-10,

Whoa! Wait a minute! Someone refresh my memory as to why EA has the -10? And the Lockheed side by side...I thought UA/PA/BA/DL were the only carriers to operate both simultaneously?

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
PHL has no other nonstops west of Denver. No nonstop to LAS from EWR/JFK

That is amazing. Someone told me a long time ago, BWI traditionally had better choices than PHL...I guess there's the proof.
The build-up of PHL as a super hub is a recent occurrence.
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VEEREF
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia December 1986

Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:07 am

Actually a very interesting post. And not surprising that there aren't many responses yet since it contains 100% aviation hobby related material without anything controversial or inflammatory!

Great post! Always neat to look back at the "good old days"!

Like when you could fly on an L-1011 from Atlanta to Knoxville and Charlotte
Or O'Hare- Syracuse on a DC-10!
Now I'm going to have to pull out a few of my old OAG back issues........

[Edited 2005-07-13 20:08:52]
Airplanes are cool. Aviation sucks.
 
WesternA318
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia December 1986

Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:10 am

I think at the time, the CO flights to YVR and JFK were connections to Air Mike, please correct me if I'm mistaken.
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
timz
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia December 1986

Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:14 am

Could be for all I know-- Air Mike isn't in the North Amer OAG.
 
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airzim
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia December 1986

Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:20 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 3):
Whoa! Wait a minute! Someone refresh my memory as to why EA has the -10?

EA took the DC-10-30's so they could fly MIA-LGW.
 
stirling
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia December 1986

Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:32 am

Quoting Airzim (Reply 7):
EA took the DC-10-30's so they could fly MIA-LGW.

Then one has to wonder why they didn't just acquire some long range versions of the TriStar?
It certainly had the legs in the -500 version....or was it not available at the time of this service? My TriStar derivative history is not so clear.
But I seem to remember Delta jumping 'cross the pond at about this same time from both DFW and ATL..
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airzim
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia December 1986

Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:42 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 8):
Then one has to wonder why they didn't just acquire some long range versions of the TriStar?
It certainly had the legs in the -500 version....or was it not available at the time of this service? My TriStar derivative history is not so clear.
But I seem to remember Delta jumping 'cross the pond at about this same time from both DFW and ATL

I also think EA should have just acquired the DC-10 family and not worry about the range limitations of the L10's. Alas Lockheed politics.

Anyway I'm not sure when Lockheed shut down the L-10 line, but the LGW route didn't start to the mid 1980's so I would assume it would be hard to acquire new builds. I would also assume the capacity of the -500's was too little for the market. The route to LGW didn't last long and was soon transferred to CO which for many years used 747's until sold, I think to AA.

EA also used the DC-10's to GIG nonstop to MIA which continued onto LAX.
 
flyguy1
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia December 1986

Thu Jul 14, 2005 4:51 am

At its peak, what Latin American destinations where served nonstop from MIA, and how often?
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
Cody
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia December 1986

Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:45 am

Eastern searched high and low for L1011-500's, but did not find any. I think there was a short timeline to get the route up and running so they bought the ex-Alitalia DC-10-30's. They also planned to use them from MIA to Madrid.

Timz,

I know I have asked you about this before, but it is my December 1986 schedule that has Presidential Airways (XV) flying from IAD to Antigua, Aruba, Barbados,Montego Bay, St. Lucia, and St. Thomas. If you don't mind please check and see what this is about. It may be operated by KeyAir. I would like to see what type of aircraft was flown on these routes. Let me give you specific flight numbers.

IAD-Antigua...flt 206 (Sat. only)
IAD-Aruba......flt 204 (Friday only)
IAD-Barbados..flt 218 (Sunday only)
IAD-Montego Bay..flt 214 on Sunday and flt 200 on Thursday
IAD-St. Lucia flt 212 (Saturday only)
IAD-St. Thomas flight 206 (Saturday only)
IAD-Nassau flt 220 on Sunday and flight 202 on Thursday

Again they may be operated by KeyAir and I am looking for an aircraft type. And then could you do me one more BIG favor pleeeze......
Do you show Presidential operating flights from MIA-Marsh Harbour, FLL, Governor Harbour, North Eleuthra, and Ocean Reef Club? I know they had a contract with Caribbean Express and they named it Presidential ONE. What do you see? Thanks for doing this.
 
timz
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia December 1986

Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:17 am

This OAG shows no direct flights from IAD to any Caribbean airport, on XV or any other airline.

"they had a contract with Caribbean Express and they named it Presidential ONE."

Presidential 1, it says here. Bandeirantes.
 
Junction
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia December 1986

Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:08 am

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
what on earth are they doing flying 73Ms ("Boeing 737-200 mixed passenger/freighter") SEA-ANC four times each weekday?

Here is a pic of one of the AirCal flights in ANC. I flew this once from ANC-SEA-SFO-LAX, and you had to board by the rear stair since the whole front cabin was filled with huge freight modules. There was a wall separating the passenger cabin from the freight section with a huge picture of Mt. McKinley on it. I remember the flight attendant had to go through this little half-door and squeeze by the freight to get to the flight deck. Otherwise the back passenger cabin looked like any other 737. I also remember that although the flight was the same number from ANC-LAX there was an a/c change at SEA to a regular 73S. AirCAl was quite successful with this mix cargo/pax service between SEA-ANC, and the service actually remained in place for a while even after AA took over AirCal. AirCal had a rather aggressive expansion to SEA, PDX, YVR and ANC around the same time.

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon

 
Cody
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia December 1986

Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:12 am

That flight attendant was required to go through that door every so often to check for fires. Those cargo holds did not have detectors. Was it only one flight attendant on those 737's Combi's?
 
Junction
Posts: 489
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RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia December 1986

Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:19 am

Quoting Cody (Reply 14):
Was it only one flight attendant on those 737's Combi's?

I remember at least two flight attendants, but I think that was it.
 
timz
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Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: Snapshot: OAG Trivia December 1986

Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:14 am

I looked again at those AirCal 73Ms ANC-SEA-- one continues to PDX and the other three turn at SEA, tho the flight number on two of them continues to Calif.

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