TheSonntag
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Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:45 pm

I just read that the IAE V2500 has a marketshare of more than 80% (don't know if it is correct) of all engines sold to the A320.

If this number is correct, why is it so successful? Is it a better engine, or is IAE forced to sell the engines and spare parts cheaper, because it cannot sell its engines to the 737?

Michael
 
PADSpot
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320

Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:51 pm

I would be extremely surprised if this turns out to be true. AFAIK the engine of choice for most operators of the A320 is the CFM56.

regards,
Jan

[Edited 2005-07-14 16:52:44]
 
KL808
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:55 pm

Is it because it offers better performance on hot and high places?



Drew
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1MillionFlyer
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:58 pm

F9 has CFM56's on all their 39 A319's and Denver is absolutely hot and high.
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enginesrus
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:03 am

That was only true of last year - overall IAE has slightly less than half of the A320 market, which isn't bad considering that it started out several years behind CFM. The V2500s have slightly better fuel burn, the CFMs have slightly better maintenance costs, and in the end it all washes out.
 
PADSpot
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:04 am

U2, LH, AF, AB they all fly (or ordered) CFM56s on their large A320-fleets ...
 
milan320
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:05 am

AC uses CFM56 on all their A320 I believe, too! Not that it's exactly that hot here  Smile
/Milan320
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brightcedars
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:11 am

I definitely don't believe that figure of 80% market share for the V2500 on the A320 Family.
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KL808
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:17 am

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 7):
definitely don't believe that figure of 80% market share for the V2500 on the A320 Family.

Its probably calculated from the point where the engine was offered, not from the get go of the A320 program.

Drew
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:20 am

V2500 may be a slightly more modern engine, but the CFM56 offers more commonality with the 737 and A343, which will be factor for many airlines (e.g. Easyjet has a large fleet of 737NGs and A319s both with the CFM56.
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gearup
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:26 am

Quoting Milan320 (Reply 6):
AC uses CFM56 on all their A320 I believe, too! Not that it's exactly that hot here

I don't know where in Canada you live Milan320 but the humidex in Toronto is 42 degrees C today, gasp!  hot 
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ramprat74
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:35 am

I wish our fleet of A319/320's had the CFM56 engines. My lungs have been sucking burned engine oil smoke from the V2500's for the last 12 years. I have written our Safety department many times about this. They keep saying it's not hazardous. Yeah right!  Yeah sure
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:41 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Thread starter):
F9 has CFM56's on all their 39 A319's and Denver is absolutely hot and high.

true, dut does it matter when theres a 16,000 ft. runway in the mix?
 
tnsaf
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:27 am

I believe the LH A321 fleet has V2500s. I think one of the reasons they went that way was to add that engine to the portfolio of LHT. 80% is not correct, but they have been a stronger competitor at least splitting the market in the last few years.
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jfrworld
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:33 am

HP has the V2500's on their 50+ A320's and 30+ A319's. I don't know if that means it is better in hot/high conditions. I know that hot/high performance has been a major factor in HP decisions in the past (757 over A321, etc).
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:35 am

I took the quote from Wikipedia.de, so there is no guarantee I am right. In fact, I have never flown IAE A320s yet, as Germanwings, LH, EZY all use CFMs.

Michael
 
gigneil
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:21 am

IAE won 80% of orders last year, yes. The overall totals are much more even.

And the engine does offer superior takeoff performance.

That being said, the CFM engine wins a lot of deals in Europe because of its much superior emissions profile.

N
 
NDSchu777
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:38 am

Don't know where you're getting your data from (maybe it was just one year of sales), but the 80% of the market is completely off. Just take a look at the websites for the IAE, CFM, and Airbus.
http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfamilies/a320/
http://www.cfm56.com/engines/stats.html
http://www.i-a-e.com/engine/market.shtm

For the A320 family, there are 2483 delivered A/C (according to Airbus) of which 1362 are CFM-powered (according to CFM) and 1129 are IAE powered (according to IAE). Now the totals don't come out exact due to the different times each website updates their data (IAE listing + CFM listing = Airbus listing-2), but since they're close enough, this amounts to CFM with 55% of the current market and IAE with 45%. Now as deliveries increase, IAE's share will definitely increase due to their backlog, but not to 80%.

~Nick
 
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:52 am

Quoting KL808 (Reply 8):
Its probably calculated from the point where the engine was offered, not from the get go of the A320 program.

It was offered quite early in the A320 program

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 12):
true, dut does it matter when theres a 16,000 ft. runway in the mix?

In DEN, it does not really matter all that much. It does matter out of PHX, LAS and the like, even though they both have very long runways (particularly LAS)
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cactusTECH
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:27 am

If you have notice A320 operators with IAE are the ones that use them on hot weather and/or high altitudes, it has better performance than the CFM
 
whitehatter
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:39 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 15):
I took the quote from Wikipedia.de, so there is no guarantee I am right. In fact, I have never flown IAE A320s yet, as Germanwings, LH, EZY all use CFMs.

LH bought the V2500 for the A321 fleet. So you can fly one of those in Germany.

Both are great engines, the CFM56 is legendary nowadays for versatility and reliability on all its platforms. But I still love the growl of the V2500!
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:55 pm

I think its 60%-40% in favour of CFM56B over V2500.
However out here All A320s are opting for V2500,mainly because of Mx requirements personnel wise.
regds
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aerobalance
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:05 pm

I think it's because of the rrrrrrrawwwwwwwrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrawwwwwwwwwwwwwrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr sound they make on departure.....
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su184
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:06 pm

Quoting Tnsaf (Reply 13):
I believe the LH A321 fleet has V2500s. I think one of the reasons they went that way was to add that engine to the portfolio of LHT. 80% is not correct

You're absolutely right, but LH ordered V2500's for A320's as first, then switched to CFM56's after the engine failed to meet performance and dates guarantees, after fixes were made, they ordered it for their A321's as it seems to be performing better in higher power ratings, then back to CFM on their A319's. The selling point for V2500's is price/support package, as these engines are required to be removed from the wings after only 4000hrs, word of maintenence people.
 
milan320
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:51 pm

Quoting Gearup (Reply 10):
don't know where in Canada you live Milan320 but the humidex in Toronto is 42 degrees C today, gasp!

Man, that is hot. I'm in Sweden on contract these days, but I remember when I left Montreal a month ago it was a hot hell hole. I recall friends saying from Toronto that it was pretty much the same there ... perhaps Airbus should do some hot weather testing should in Toronto/Montreal  Smile

/Milan320
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milan320
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:53 pm

What about the A319CJ then? I recall that it was offered before only with the IAE engines, but now customers have a choice of CFM or IAE engines. Which engine then is more popular on the CJ now?

/milan320
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Tom_EDDF
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RE: Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?

Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:57 am

Quoting SU184 (Reply 23):
You're absolutely right, but LH ordered V2500's for A320's as first, then switched to CFM56's after the engine failed to meet performance and dates guarantees, after fixes were made, they ordered it for their A321's as it seems to be performing better in higher power ratings, then back to CFM on their A319's. The selling point for V2500's is price/support package, as these engines are required to be removed from the wings after only 4000hrs, word of maintenence people.

I think LH also changed their mind on the V2500 after the SuperFan desaster. Initially, LH opted for the V2500 for their A320 series aircraft and the V2500Superfan that was planned to be the launch engine for the A340-200/-300.

Very late in the A330/340 program, IAE had to admit they couldn't get the SuperFan to work and Airbus had to take the CFM56 as the exclusive engine choice on the A340 classics (the CFM56 was the only engine available in a similar weight class as the superfan, but -on paper- technically inferior). LH, having placed a significant order for both A340 and A320 series, then switched to CFM for the 320 and 340.