cactusTECH
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USairways Future In JFK

Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:44 pm

With the merger coming up and transcons dissapearing what will be the future of JFK and what role will it play in this new airline?
WIll there be a PHL express flight and CLT?
BEing that JFK is an important HUB for Star Alliance it should make sence to put more frequencies to PHX and LAS.
Starting October JFK will only be served by A320's since the 757's will be dedicated to the new Hawaii service.
 
N1120A
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:52 pm

Quoting CactusTECH (Thread starter):
BEing that JFK is an important HUB for Star Alliance

Not nearly as important as it is a OneWorld and SkyTeam hub
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BigGSFO
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:09 pm

I would imagine that once the dust settles, US would only offer JFK-LAS and JFK-PHX only. US doesn't have a need to link any other cities from/to JFK given their schedules at the other NYC airports.

JFK is not that big of a hub for Star Alliance as compared to SkyTeam and OneWorld. Star Alliance international airlines (most notably LH) at JFK rely mostly on O&D and had been serving JFK long before the alliances were established.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:09 pm

US would probably just maintain their minimal presence at JFK and EWR since they have a huge operation at LGA.
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tsnamm
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:15 pm

it seems to me since its HP management is running the show...the current operation at JFK (18 flts in/out daily) would remain essentially unchanged...perhaps the "new" US may consider utilizing a wide body to LAS or PHX due to JFK being a huge cargo dest...otherwise I don't see much change...
 
jmc1975
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:31 pm

Flights to PHX and LAS you can expect to remain at current levels, since they are outside of the LGA perimeter rule. The LAX and SFO transcons are being discontinued as flights with increased stage length will be acquired through the merger into other markets.

After the HP/US merger:

1. JFK is to be the smallest USAirways station in metro-NYC (not counting ISP/HPN/SWF).
2. EWR will carry on with roughly the combined level of flight activity of both airlines (flights to PHX, LAS, CLT, PHL, PIT, DCA).
3. LGA will be the biggest NYC-area operation, with flight activity close to current US levels.
.......
 
flyguy1
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:37 pm

With the various long haul flights operated by S* carriers into JFK (NRT, BKK, GRU, ICN, etc), you would figure a few flights as feeders from CLT, and PHL would work.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
LUV4JFK
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:18 am

Quoting Flyguy1 (Reply 6):
With the various long haul flights operated by S* carriers into JFK (NRT, BKK, GRU, ICN, etc), you would figure a few flights as feeders from CLT, and PHL would work.

I guess US Airways could care less about that otherwise they would have thought about those flights already. I think we depend a little to much on this "alliance" factor. I really don't see the difference because one airline in an alliance is not going to give up a route to give it to another alliance member. They are still competitors no matter how you look at it.

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drerx7
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:29 am

The 757s will not be dedicated to Hawaii services. They will be slingshotted through the hubs out to Hawaii--I'm sure they are not going to just do PHX/LAS-Hawaii and back all the time. Will you see fewer 757s in the system--maybe--but remember USAirways is bringing in their sizeable fleet of 757s too.
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rjpieces
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:47 am

I don't think we will see any major changes....I'd love to see a DCA-JFK feeder flight to connect to JFK's massive amount of international flights.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
N77014
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:51 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 9):
don't think we will see any major changes....I'd love to see a DCA-JFK feeder flight to connect to JFK's massive amount of international flights.

Why? When you can do DCA-PHL on the carrier's own metal?
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flyguy1
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:53 am

Quoting N77014 (Reply 10):
Why? When you can do DCA-PHL on the carrier's own metal?

I think the number of international destinations is a little bigger from JFK, than PHL.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
N77014
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:55 am

Quoting Flyguy1 (Reply 11):
I think the number of international destinations is a little bigger from JFK, than PHL.

Not on the combined US/HP routemap. If it is an int'l connection, spotting aside, I'll take PHL over JFK anyday.
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jmc1975
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:56 am

The code-share with Royal Jordanian is expected to remain in place. Since JFK is a gateway for RJ, this could open up new connection possibilities for some cities on the East Coast to connect to Amman.
.......
 
N77014
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:04 am

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 13):
The code-share with Royal Jordanian is expected to remain in place. Since JFK is a gateway for RJ, this could open up new connection possibilities for some cities on the East Coast to connect to Amman.



John 3:16

Nowhere near as comprehensive as NW/KL
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cltguy
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:07 am

CLT used to have JFK service through US for a long time...but in the past 5 years or so US completely pulled out of JFK.

CLT only has a 1 JFK flight on Delta. I would love to see US pick up a JFK flight again...especially now with the Air Train making JFK very easy to get to from Manhatten.
 
cactusTECH
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:23 am

Hp managment will keep their codeshare with Royal Jordanian as well as Virgin Atlantic after the merger and this was said by our CEO in a townhall meeting.
JFK will see the 757's afer October due to the ETOPS program to Hawaii. Since US cannot fly to LAS and PHX from LGA, they should increase the frequencies at JFK
 
tsnamm
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:24 am

Quoting N77014 (Reply 12):
Not on the combined US/HP routemap. If it is an int'l connection, spotting aside, I'll take PHL over JFK anyday.

????? PHL does not even have 1/4 of the Intl Destinations served compared to JFK...
 
cactusTECH
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:27 am

Hp managment will keep their codeshare with Royal Jordanian as well as Virgin Atlantic after the merger and this was said by our CEO in a townhall meeting.
JFK will see the 757's afer October due to the ETOPS program to Hawaii. Since US cannot fly to LAS and PHX from LGA, they should increase the frequencies at JFK
 
N77014
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:42 am

Quoting Tsnamm (Reply 17):
Quoting N77014 (Reply 12):
Not on the combined US/HP routemap. If it is an int'l connection, spotting aside, I'll take PHL over JFK anyday.

????? PHL does not even have 1/4 of the Intl Destinations served compared to JFK...

True. But if all you need to go to Europe is on the HP/US route map, why endure JFK? The point is, no need to expand connections to JFK, when PHL is an excellent gateway from the USA to Europe. On Airways metal.
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dutchjet
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:43 am

A lot depends on how closely the new HP/US coordinates with STAR Alliance members - especially the European and Asian members of the alliance that offer service from JFK.

Nonstops from JFK to PHX and LAS will continue - we may or may not see increased frequencies or bigger aircraft on these routes. I think that at some point a JFK-CLT flight may be introduced, with RJs, once or twice per day as US builds the CLT hub to increase choice for NYC travellers and to connect with longhaul flights at JFK offered by STAR alliance members. I do not see so much more happening at JFK for the combined US/HP - JFK is not a big STAR hub and for domestic operations, NYC travellers prefer LGA and EWR whenever possible.
 
rjpieces
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:55 am

Not on the combined US/HP routemap. If it is an int'l connection, spotting aside, I'll take PHL over JFK anyday.

True. But if all you need to go to Europe is on the HP/US route map, why endure JFK? The point is, no need to expand connections to JFK, when PHL is an excellent gateway from the USA to Europe. On Airways metal.


If you want to go from DCA-Paris or London, sure....But JFK can get you to Istanbul, Moscow, Tel Aviv, Cairo, Amman, Dubai, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Seoul, Sydney, shall I continue?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
N77014
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:57 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 21):
If you want to go from DCA-Paris or London, sure....But JFK can get you to Istanbul, Moscow, Tel Aviv, Cairo, Amman, Dubai, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Seoul, Sydney, shall I continue?

Sure. From FRA on a Star Alliance connection!
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rjpieces
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:00 am

Sure. From FRA on a Star Alliance connection!

You really think anybody would fly DCA-PHL-FRA-NRT? Keep dreaming.

JFK would offer one stop connections to MANY markets for DC travellers who would rather use DCA than drive out to IAD.

[Edited 2005-07-15 19:02:22]
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
N77014
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:19 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 23):
Sure. From FRA on a Star Alliance connection!

You really think anybody would fly DCA-PHL-FRA-NRT? Keep dreaming.

JFK would offer one stop connections to MANY markets for DC travellers who would rather use DCA than drive out to IAD.

[Edited 2005-07-15 19:02:22]

You are picking up stix now...Yes, NH provides daily JFK service to NRT. And my post never concerned the DCA traveller; more to the *Alliance cutomer who is a regular on US, and how well they are served via PHL, and wants to keep their mileage in-house.
A new life awaits you in the Off-World Colonies...
 
cactusTECH
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:38 am

Star Alliance at JFK:
Lufthansa
United
Asiana
Austrian
soon will be South African
Varig
ANA
 
mikephotos
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:41 am

add..

Air Canada
LOT Polish
Singapore Airlines
Thai

Mike
 
cactusTECH
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:44 am

thanks mike for the update!! i knew i was missing something
 
mikephotos
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:55 am

sure, not a problem. i didn't think there were that many star carriers at jfk but wow, i guess so.

mike
 
rjpieces
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:02 am

You are picking up stix now...Yes, NH provides daily JFK service to NRT. And my post never concerned the DCA traveller; more to the *Alliance cutomer who is a regular on US, and how well they are served via PHL, and wants to keep their mileage in-house.

Ummm, you responded to me suggesting a DCA-JFK flight...How was your post not concerned with the DCA traveler?

If you want to look at ONLY connecting Star Alliance opportunities at JFK, you have:
Air Canada--Vancouver
ANA--Tokyo
Asiana--Seoul
Austrian--Vienna
LOT--Warsaw
Lufthansa--Frankfurt, Munich
Singapore--Frankfurt/Singapore
Thai--Nonstop to BKK
United--LHR, NRT continuing on to SIN, Premium Service to LAX and SFO
Varig--GRU continuing on to GIG

If you look at other possible connection opportunities, you have niche airlines that IAD (or PHI or many other major airports don't see) such as:
Cathay Pacific
JAL
Air China
China Airlines
Korean Air
Royal Air Maroc
EgyptAir
Emirates
El Al
Kuwaiti Airways
Royal Jordanian
IsraAir
AeroSvit
Iberia
....I could go on and on.

Bottom line is that JFK offers all sorts of connecting opportunities that PHI doesn't have.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
flyguy1
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:39 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 29):
LOT--Warsaw

Krakow as well.

Quoting N77014 (Reply 22):
Sure. From FRA on a Star Alliance connection!

Some travellers may prefer connecting in an american airport, as opposed to FRA.

[Edited 2005-07-15 20:40:28]
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
Cubsrule
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:21 am

Quoting N77014 (Reply 24):
And my post never concerned the DCA traveller; more to the *Alliance cutomer who is a regular on US, and how well they are served via PHL, and wants to keep their mileage in-house.

Just about any *A customer east of the Mississippi who wants the mileage in house need only connect in ORD or IAD with UA... no need for a flight to JFK. Heck, the DCA traveller can even fly on a 170 to ORD... lucky him.
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STT757
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:53 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 21):
If you want to go from DCA-Paris or London, sure....But JFK can get you to Istanbul, Moscow, Tel Aviv, Cairo, Amman, Dubai, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Seoul, Sydney, shall I continue?

To get to Istanbul, Moscow, Tel Aviv, Cairo, Amman and Dubai most Star affiliated folks would probably fly LH out of IAD and connect in FRA if they are in the DC area.

For Asia they can fly UAL via LAX, SFO or ORD.
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rjpieces
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:06 am

To get to Istanbul, Moscow, Tel Aviv, Cairo, Amman and Dubai most Star affiliated folks would probably fly LH out of IAD and connect in FRA if they are in the DC area.

For Asia they can fly UAL via LAX, SFO or ORD.


Every person is going to prefer a certain way of travelling/connecting....Many DC residents prefer DCA. If I were travelling abroad when I live in DC, I'd much rather taking a connecting flight out of DCA then fight traffic to IAD....I would guess that there's enough demand in a large city like DC to have DCA-JFK service connecting to international flights. And of course some will prefer to fly LH out of IAD, etc...But you don't think US Airways could fill an RJ or 170 to JFK during the international rush hour?
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dutchjet
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:15 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 33):


Every person is going to prefer a certain way of travelling/connecting....Many DC residents prefer DCA. If I were travelling abroad when I live in DC, I'd much rather taking a connecting flight out of DCA then fight traffic to IAD....I would guess that there's enough demand in a large city like DC to have DCA-JFK service connecting to international flights. And of course some will prefer to fly LH out of IAD, etc...But you don't think US Airways could fill an RJ or 170 to JFK during the international rush hour?

This reminds me of when, back when BA and US were partners, US would fly a DH8 from DCA to JFK that was timed to allow a direct connection to BA's Concorde service - the same type of connection was available on the return.

Whether US/HP flies an RJ on a DCA-JFK route to allow for international connections will depend upon how closely the new airline works with its STAR alliance partners - I think that we can agree that some airlines work very tightly with their alliance partners (UA/LH for example) while others simply do not. The DCA-JFK turn would be almost exclusively for connections to/from international flights, will US/HP find it interesting and profitable to provide a connection to those flights?
 
LGA777
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:22 am

I would hope somewhere down the line maybe some limited Caribbean flying out of JFK on routes US can not serve from LGA because of Customs and the perimeter rules. Perhaps JFK-SDQ for example !
I also would not be surprised to see LGA-LAS on Saturday only.

LGA777
 
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RE: USairways Future In JFK

Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:03 am

Quoting CactusTECH (Thread starter):
BEing that JFK is an important HUB for Star Alliance it should make sence to put more frequencies to PHX and LAS.

No, more frequencies wouldn't help; you just need the one frequency that connects with the international bank.

Quoting CactusTECH (Thread starter):
WIll there be a PHL express flight and CLT?

I believe US will start an RJ to CLT to connect with the Caribbean bank. PHL service is possible, but less likely.

Quoting LUV4JFK (Reply 7):
I guess US Airways could care less about that otherwise they would have thought about those flights already.

Not necessarily. The cost of opening a new station, even an Express station, for just one or two daily flights would be prohibitive. With an existing station, that allows a single daily flight to a hub for connections, as US does in markets like PHL-EWR/IAD.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 9):
I'd love to see a DCA-JFK feeder flight to connect to JFK's massive amount of international flights.

Won't happen. I think the flight would work, but US's DCA slots are far too valuable to use on a route like that.

Quoting CactusTECH (Reply 16):
Hp managment will keep their codeshare with Royal Jordanian as well as Virgin Atlantic after the merger and this was said by our CEO in a townhall meeting.

No. US/HP is keeping the immunized alliance with RJ, but dropping the codeshares with both VS and BA. See my post at http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/2212117.

Quoting LGA777 (Reply 35):
I also would not be surprised to see LGA-LAS on Saturday only.

That was previously announced, but never started, since the A321 couldn't make it. If they can schedule a B757 on the route, I think they will.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.

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