Sabena332
Topic Author
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Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:42 am

Hello all,

I have some questions regarding American Airlines' A 300 fleet. I just tried to look for the fleet list on Planespotters.net but somehow I couldn't get to the list of AA (only the homepage worked for me).

So here are my questions:

  • How many A 300's does AA have?

  • Are they all active or are there some stored planes?

  • Where do they mainly fly (I guess to the Caribbean)?

  • Did AA order these planes from Airbus or did they get them while they took over another airline?

  • Are there plans to replace them with other aircraft types in the near future?


  • Any information is greatly appreciated!

    Patrick
    NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
     
    Newark777
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:44 am

    Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
     
    Sabena332
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:48 am

    Thanks a lot for the links Harry!

    So the following questions will be answered in a few minutes after I looked on the site:

    Quoting Sabena332 (Thread starter):
    How many A 300's does AA have?



    Quoting Sabena332 (Thread starter):
    Are they all active or are there some stored planes?



    Quoting Sabena332 (Thread starter):
    Did AA order these planes from Airbus or did they get them while they took over another airline?

     thumbsup 

    Patrick
    NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
     
    FlagshipAZ
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:50 am

    Adding to what Newark777 said...10 of the 34 remaining A300-605Rs are owned outright by American...the 10 newest airframes I believe. All 35 were delivered brand new from Airbus. The Airbus will be the next type to leave the fleet if & when AA decides on an replacement, most likely the 787-3s. Regards.
    "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
     
    pdxtriple7
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:51 am

    As far as where the AA A300 flies, mostly to the Caribbean. There is one daily to SJO-MIA additionally. AA used to have a few on transatlantic ops to LHR, but with the 777 and 763 that is no more. The A300 are used for high cargo routes (i.e. Central America and the Caribbean)

    pdxtriple7
     
    Sabena332
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:06 am

    Quoting PDXtriple7 (Reply 4):
    AA used to have a few on transatlantic ops to LHR

    Yes, I remember that, a few years ago I had an AA timetable which showed an international and a short-haul seat map for the A 300.

    Patrick
    NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
     
    rhuertas70
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:12 am

    Originally they were 35 of them. One was lost on the infamous AA flight 587.
     
    jdaniel001
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:19 am

    I think they still fly them from MIA to LAX.
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    BigGSFO
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:30 am

    The A300's fly solely to the Caribbean and Latin America. The only US airports they will serve is MIA, JFK and SJU. They are assigned to dense, high traffic routes, such as MIA-SJU, JFK-SDQ, MIA-LIM, MIA-CCS, etc. where there are high loads of both pax and cargo (affectionately known as the "roach flights"). They are AA's highest capacity aircraft in terms of passenger seating - even more than the 777's.

    Incidentally, all London routes (both Heathrow and Gatwick) are now only served by 777's.
     
    dutchjet
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:32 am

    AA flies its A300s on Caribbean and Latin American routes out mainly out of JFK and MIA - they are used on routes where there is a lot of pax and cargo demand. If you check AA's schedules out of JFK and MIA you will quickly learn the routes that the A300s fly - the A300s are also used on the JFK-MIA route many times per day and are a common sight at SJU. Currently, AA is reorganizing its aircraft allocations and trying to limit fleet types at certain cities, thus the A300s now fly almost exclusively out of JFK and MIA, but over the years AA A300s were also present at EWR, BOS, PHL, MCO, IAD, BDL, ORD, etc mainly headed to MIA or SJU. AA A300s rarely got further west than ORD - but at one time AA flew one ORD-LAS segment with the A300 (many years ago) and, in the past, at times an A300 would be scheduled on a MIA-LAX turn. Also, at a certain point, a group of AA A300s were outfitted for transatlantic flying and were assigned to the JFK-LHR, EWR-LHR and BOS-LHR routes, this was during the period that AA was short on 763ERs and before the 777s arrived in big numbers at AA. The A300s were fitted with a rather low density interior for this role with a rather large first and business class cabins.

    Its an interesting story as to how AA ended up with the A300s. AA was a launch customer for the 767-200 and was working with Boeing and pushing the development of the streched 767-300. AA had certain demands/requirements for the streched version and Boeing was being less cooperative than AA would have liked. All of AA's requirements were not being met with the 763 and there was also an issue over pricing. AA was unhappy and did something that Boeing, at the time, absolutely never thought possible - AA paid a visit to Airbus and found the newly updated A300B4-600R variant to be a very suitable airliner for the medium-haul high-demand missions that AA had in mind for the type. Airbus also made AA a very attractive financial offer, and, to everyone's surprise, AA ordered the A300. I think AA acquired the A300 over two orders - the first group was for 18 to 20 aircraft and the balance was a follow-up order. Very attractive leasing terms were arranged for atleast some of the A300s. OF course, AA and Boeing repaired their relationship and AA did go on to buy a large number of 767-300ER aircraft for long haul services.

    It is not clear when AA will replace the A300s, the oldest member of the A300 fleet is still less than 20 years old and the A300s still have years of flying left. The A300s are very good aircraft for the missions that they fly - and they make lots of money for AA since many of the routes have higher yeilds due to limited competition, and they can haul a good amount of cargo. The A300s are likely to remain in the fleet for atleast another 5 to 10 years, as AA has made no decision as to what will replace them, and AA is not in the financial position at the moment to go out and buy a fleet of new widebody airliners.

    Many think that AA will jointly replace the A300s and the remaining 762ERs (which fly the JFK-LAX/SFO transcons and a couple of other routes) with one type - probably the 787-3 which is about the right size and is geared to medium haul missions. While there is a possibility that AA would go with the 777-200 A market version, it probably is too much aircraft for many of the routes flown by the A300. While anything is possible, most do not expect AA to seriously consider further Airbus types (although the A333 would be well suited for AA's needs, at least on the carib/latin american routes) since the relationship between AA and Airbus became very strained after the A300 crash at JFK.
     
    luv2fly
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:34 am

    I have to ask this questions to the AA people in the know, it would have been 1999 around May or so, could I have taken the A300 between MIA and ORD? I remember flying that route early AM and it was a wide body and I thought it might have been the A300? Anyone?

    Thanks
    You can cut the irony with a knife
     
    dutchjet
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:37 am

    Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 10):
    I have to ask this questions to the AA people in the know, it would have been 1999 around May or so, could I have taken the A300 between MIA and ORD? I remember flying that route early AM and it was a wide body and I thought it might have been the A300? Anyone?

    Thanks

    Its very possible that you flew an AA A300 between ORD and MIA in 1999 - the A300s did fly the ORD-MIA route for many years.
     
    rhuertas70
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:43 am

    Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 10):
    I have to ask this questions to the AA people in the know, it would have been 1999 around May or so, could I have taken the A300 between MIA and ORD? I remember flying that route early AM and it was a wide body and I thought it might have been the A300? Anyone?

    Try to remember the economy class.

    If the coach seat configuration was 2-4-2, it was an A300.

    Otherwise it was a 767-200/300 (2-3-2) or a 777 (2-5-2).
     
    ltbewr
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:19 am

    In December 2003 I was on an AA A300-600 SJU-EWR. My flight EWR-SJU was on a 767. Another flight at the time between EWR-SJU used a 757. I believe that AA removed all A-300's from EWR to either MIA or JFK and replaced it with either a 757 or 737 series a/c's.
     
    ikramerica
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:47 am

    Yes, AA did fly A300s out of EWR to MIA for years, and SJU as well. In the mid 90s, my family took a one way EWR-MIA flight in a move. Of course, the A300 mx issues popped up, our flight was canceled, and we had to return the next day. Which was tough because: our house didn't have much furniture left in it, and we had 5 CATS in the cargo hold! We had to take those back to our old house, round them up again in the morning, and put them back on the plane. Fun stuff for them. We connected on to EWR, so the kitties got to fly an A300 and an ATR72. They all survived and lived many years longer.
    Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
     
    Glareskin
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:03 pm

    Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 9):
    most do not expect AA to seriously consider further Airbus types

    After your positive story about the A300 hisory at AA this comes unexpected. If the A300 is that big of a success to AA, why don't they consider new Airbus aircrafts for the future?

    In the different replies I read that there is a demand for aircrafts from B787 to B777. Isn't that exactly the A350?
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    dutchjet
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:55 pm

    Quoting Glareskin (Reply 15):

    After your positive story about the A300 hisory at AA this comes unexpected. If the A300 is that big of a success to AA, why don't they consider new Airbus aircrafts for the future?

    In the different replies I read that there is a demand for aircrafts from B787 to B777. Isn't that exactly the A350?

    As I mentioned above, the AA and Airbus relationship got into serious trouble after an AA A300 crashed after taking off from JFK. There have been other discussions about this crash and a good deal of controversy, so I am not going to get into it here, but lets just say this incident and the investigation into this incident created lots of problems between AA and Airbus that have never been fully resolved; thus, most think that it would be unlikely for AA to order additonal Airbus types in the medium-term future. Also remember that AA and Boeing did have one of those exclusive supplier contracts, these contracts were invalidated by the EU in consideration of the EU granting clearance to the Boeing/McD merger, but the spirit nonetheless remains, AA is committed to Boeing for its mainline needs.

    You mention the A350, as the A350 has developed, its probably too much airliner as far as range and capacity to be considered as a potential A300 replacement for AA or any other carrier, Airbus (in part to try to satisfy EK and in part to make the performance numbers work) has moved the A350 far closer to the 777 in terms of size - thus, even if AA went shopping in Toulouse for an A300 replacement, the A333 would probably be more suitable than the new A350.
     
    kappel
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:14 pm

    Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 16):
    Airbus (in part to try to satisfy EK and in part to make the performance numbers work) has moved the A350 far closer to the 777 in terms of size - thus, even if AA went shopping in Toulouse for an A300 replacement,

    I keep wondering about this. Why hasn't Airbus developed any replacements for the A300/A310 market yet? These are ttheir oldest airliners, yet the A350 is way too large to replace these, leaving Boeing as the only option in this segment with the 787-3 and 787-8.
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    NYCAAer
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:36 pm

    The main reason that American won't be ordering any Airbus aircraft in the future is that AA signed a contract of exclusivity with Boeing in the late '90s which will last 20 years. It was with this contract that AA ordered its first 777s and 738s, in 1998.

    Although the A300s do have some performance problems, there are no plans to replace them in the immediate future. Gerard Aprey mentioned at the President's Conference in NY that AA would be interested in replacing the A300s with a mix of 757 and 767 equipment with higher frequencies than the A300 flies today in the short term. However, AA doesn't have enough aircraft to do it without reducing its European and South American schedules flown by the 767-300ER. Underperforming routes could be dropped but nothing has ben planned as of yet.
     
    Scorpio
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:40 pm

    Quoting NYCAAer (Reply 18):
    The main reason that American won't be ordering any Airbus aircraft in the future is that AA signed a contract of exclusivity with Boeing in the late '90s which will last 20 years.

    The exclusivity clause in those contracts is not valid. It was dropped by Boeing in order to get the McDD merger approved by the EU.
     
    boeingbus
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:54 pm

    Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 16):
    thus, even if AA went shopping in Toulouse for an A300 replacement, the A333 would probably be more suitable than the new A350.

    Why do you think that any airliner would go for an A330 instead of the A350?

    The A330, no matter how great it is today, is a dead duckling when the A350/787 is in-service.

    I have heard/read/told that AA has 'options' or an exlusive supplier contract with Boeing for future aircraft so Airbus is very unlikely for this reason. The crash of Flight 587 may have tarnished the relationship but I dont think this alone would deal breaker in the future. seasons change, people change... and so on...
    Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
     
    dutchjet
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:39 pm

    Quoting NYCAAer (Reply 18):
    The main reason that American won't be ordering any Airbus aircraft in the future is that AA signed a contract of exclusivity with Boeing in the late '90s which will last 20 years. It was with this contract that AA ordered its first 777s and 738s, in 1998.

    These contracts were thrown out (DL and CO has these deals, as well as AA) and AA and the others are free to order aircraft from whomever they want - but I do think that the "spirit" of these deals remain. As time passes, things can of course change, so we shall see......but, if it wanted, AA could go out and buy Airbus aircraft today if it wanted.

    Replacing the A300s with a mix of 757 and 767 aircraft would be an odd move by AA.......neither has the seating capacity of the A300 and neither can haul cargo like the A300.

    Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 20):

    Why do you think that any airliner would go for an A330 instead of the A350?

    The A330, no matter how great it is today, is a dead duckling when the A350/787 is in-service.

    The crash of Flight 587 may have tarnished the relationship but I dont think this alone would deal breaker in the future. seasons change, people change... and so on...

    I disagree with you regarding the A330 - while I do think that the A343 production will come to an end with the introduction of the A350, and I also think that the A345 may be impacted by the A350, there still will be a place for the A330 in the Airbus lineup - from what we are hearing, not only will the A350 will end up being a larger aircraft than the A330, it will also have a lot more range - while everyone it talking about the A350 and its capabilities of flying 7000 mile segments, little has been said as to how it will perform on shorter segments similiar to the ones for which AA now uses the A300. Over the years, many airlines (such as LH) have said that the A330 was too much aircraft to be considered as an A300 replacement, the situation may be even more extreme with the A350. Does an airline really need an aircraft with a 7500+ mile range to fly from JFK to MIA to SJU?

    Quoting Kappel (Reply 17):

    I keep wondering about this. Why hasn't Airbus developed any replacements for the A300/A310 market yet? These are ttheir oldest airliners, yet the A350 is way too large to replace these, leaving Boeing as the only option in this segment with the 787-3 and 787-8.

    There is a gap in the line up - there is no direct replacement for the A300/310 series over at Airbus, the main reason is that there does not seem to be a huge market for a 200-250 seat medium haul airliner. LH would be interested, and maybe some others, but most airlines seem comfortable with the gap between with A321 and A332.
     
    NYCAAer
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:45 pm

    Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 21):
    Replacing the A300s with a mix of 757s and 767s would be an odd move by AA...neither has the seating capacity of the A300 and neither can haul cargo like the A300.

    That's why Arpey said there would be an increase in frequency if it were implemented. For example, instead of flying 5 A300s daily between JFK and STI, 6 daily flights could be flown with a 767-300. AA would like to reduce fleet types further.
     
    FlewGSW
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fle

    Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:37 pm

    A-300 AA routes this week are:
    MIA - BOG
    MIA - BOS x2
    MIA - CCS
    MIA - GYE
    MIA - JFK x4
    MIA - LIM x2
    MIA - MEX
    MIA - PAP x2
    MIA - SDQ x2
    MIA - SJO
    MIA - SJU x3
    JFK - CUN
    JFK - MBJ
    JFK - MIA x4
    JFK - PAP
    JFK - SDQ x3
    JFK - SJU x6
    JFK - STI x5
    SJU - BDL
    SJU - BOS x2
    SJU - JFK x6
    SJU - MCO x3
    SJU - MIA x3

    The reliability of AA's A-300 fleet is their worst. So much so that they have to park planes as spares because in the course of a day they have more A-300s out of service percentage wise than any other fleet.

    That said, AA's most recent plan that I heard of, and that is 2 years old, is to replace the A-300s starting in 2012.
     
    TACAA320
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:51 am

    I flew some of them between SJO/MIA. We had problems sometimes [delays, change of aircrafts...] due to different technical problems with them. They are usually old and "problematics".
    'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
     
    panaman
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:01 am

    Quote:
    They are usually old

    uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok the oldest one was made in late 1980's, that is hardly old by any standard.
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    Newark777
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:05 am

    Yes, AA did fly A300s out of EWR to MIA for years

    Yes, I remember those flights. Nice of them to change that route to 757's a while back.  Smile

    Harry
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    ikramerica
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:11 am

    Quoting Panaman (Reply 25):
    uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok the oldest one was made in late 1980's, that is hardly old by any standard.

    Maybe not by Douglas standards, but that is proving to be very "old" by Airbus standards...

    flame away (even though it is true).
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    TACAA320
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:14 am

    Quoting Panaman (Reply 25):
    that is hardly old by any standard.

    ANY standard? Are you sure?
    'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
     
    kevi747
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:18 am

    I love the A300. A lot of F/A's don't like to work it, but I like how roomy it is and I love flying the Caribbean routes out of JFK so its perfect for me. I have a question that I wonder if anyone could answer. When AA first got the A300 (long before I started flying) why were they painted like this:


    View Large View Medium
    Click here for bigger photo!

    Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.




    instead of this?:



    View Large View Medium
    Click here for bigger photo!

    Photo © JetPix

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    Newark777
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:25 am

    When AA first got the A300 (long before I started flying) why were they painted like this:

    Reply 17 has a pretty good explanation:

    http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/1472467

    Harry
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    dutchjet
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:27 am

    Yik, the battleship grey A300s, they were rather drab looking.

    If I remember correctly, Airbus initially could not deliver the A300s in the polished metal look that is common to other AA aircraft due to the metals and alloys used to construct the A300, so the AA A300s were painted in that awful grey color instead. I guess later on, a solution was found and the A300s got the typical AA polished metal look.
     
    DfwRevolution
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:27 am

    >> That said, AA's most recent plan that I heard of, and that is 2 years old, is to replace the A-300s starting in 2012.

    I don't think they will be retired, but rather returned to their lessors. The entire fleet isn't owned by AA, and I was under the impression the timetable for departure of the leased aircraft was something like 2008 or 2010.

    >> there still will be a place for the A330 in the Airbus lineup - from what we are hearing, not only will the A350 will end up being a larger aircraft than the A330, it will also have a lot more range

    If it is true that Airbus will contiune to produce the A330 because it is more suitable for medium ranged routes (i.e. 4,000-6,000 nm) than the A350, Airbus will be at a serious disadvantage to Boeing. If the 787-8/9 deliveres as promised, then it will remain economical on medium and long-ranged trips, and of course, the short-range 787-3 will be a common fleet member.

    If the A350 proves economical only on long-range trips (why else continue to market the A330?) then Airbus won't offer nearly as much versatility as the 787. I would expect the A330 to drop to the A300's status when the A350 is established, i.e., low production rate for freighters and add-on orders.
     
    JetboyTWA
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:39 am

    Don't they fly them into MCO?

    I saw one last week parked at a gate, I think it's a flight to SJU.

    Ryan
     
    abirda
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:01 am

    Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 9):
    although the A333 would be well suited for AA's needs, at least on the carib/latin american routes

    I have to disagree about the A333. A number of factors make it quite unsuitable for taking on a mission similar to AA's A300s. In terms of passenger and cargo capacity, the A332 is much more closely matched to that of the A300. Additionally, Airbus has not created a new short to medium range wide body aircraft since the A300/A310. The A332/A333 has a much higher OEW per seat than does the A300/A310. The biggest factor in this is that the 332/333 has a much larger, longer wing with higher fuel capacity than the 300/310. Other structures are heavier as well. The situation is similar to that of the 735 vs 736. They are very similar in capacity, but the much heavier structure of the 736 makes it uneconomical for most airlines on all but the longest of routes. If AA was to place the A332 on current A300 routes, they would see sharp declines in the profits they enjoy on those routes now.

    Quoting Scorpio (Reply 19):
    The exclusivity clause in those contracts is not valid. It was dropped by Boeing in order to get the McDD merger approved by the EU.

    I have said it before, and I'll say it again. Boeing and AA/CO/DL may have nothing on paper at this point, but those contracts are are every bit as valid in the eyes of each company involved as they were in the mid-1990s. You will not see a new Airbus in AA's fleet.
     
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    STT757
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:07 am

    Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 32):
    I don't think they will be retired, but rather returned to their lessors. The entire fleet isn't owned by AA, and I was under the impression the timetable for departure of the leased aircraft was something like 2008 or 2010.

    That's what I read a couple month's back, they would start returning them in '08 and the entire fleet would be retired by 2010.

    I remember the good ol' days of the AA SJU hub, AA's current operation is a shadow of what it was in the early '90s. They had several daily flights from SJU to ST.Thomas, ST.Croix, Antigua, Aruba, Santo Domingo, St.Martin all on A300s. The first time I visited ST.Thomas (STT) in July '93 AA would have no less than 3-4 A300s sitting on the STT ramp along with a 757, they had something like 5 daily A300 flights from SJU-STT.
    Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
     
    abirda
    Posts: 296
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:19 am

    I made the following conjecture regarding AA's fleet priorities a while back on the AA A300 and F100 thread. I believe that AA's concerns go like this, with the most pressing first:

    1) Additional 777s (2 coming next year, more desired no doubt)
    2) 787-3 (between 40 and 60 ultimately, to replace 762 transcons and A300)
    3) 100 seater
    4) MD-80 replacement (Y1 launch customer?)
    5) 787-8 (763 replacement, additional international expansion)

    I also wrote at some point that I believe the still-strong spirit of the AA/Boeing exclusivity contract could very possibly be providing 787-3 production slots more appropriately timed to the A300/762 replacement effort than many on A.net believe. I believe at least a 787-3 (if not 787-8 as well) order from AA is very close.
     
    aa777flyer
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:45 am

    Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 8):
    Incidentally, all London routes (both Heathrow and Gatwick) are now only served by 777's.

    hmmm AA80/AA81 DFW LGW DFW is still a 763, in October AA78/AA79 also go back to a 763.
    The TSA was created to make the post office look efficient!
     
    trex8
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:23 am

    Quoting AbirdA (Reply 34):
    I have to disagree about the A333. A number of factors make it quite unsuitable for taking on a mission similar to AA's A300s. In terms of passenger and cargo capacity, the A332 is much more closely matched to that of the A300. Additionally, Airbus has not created a new short to medium range wide body aircraft since the A300/A310. The A332/A333 has a much higher OEW per seat than does the A300/A310. The biggest factor in this is that the 332/333 has a much larger, longer wing with higher fuel capacity than the 300/310. Other structures are heavier as well. The situation is similar to that of the 735 vs 736. They are very similar in capacity, but the much heavier structure of the 736 makes it uneconomical for most airlines on all but the longest of routes. If AA was to place the A332 on current A300 routes, they would see sharp declines in the profits they enjoy on those routes now.

    CI has found that their new A333s burn same or less fuel per trip as the A306s they are replacing yet allow them to carry significantly more payload esp cargo and with far lower maintenance costs. so if you can pack the A333, its a no brainer.
     
    abirda
    Posts: 296
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:30 pm

    Quoting Trex8 (Reply 38):
    CI has found that their new A333s burn same or less fuel per trip as the A306s they are replacing yet allow them to carry significantly more payload esp cargo and with far lower maintenance costs. so if you can pack the A333, its a no brainer.

    This statement has no meaning without specifying the average stage length CI is using the A333s in. If AA was using the A306 all the time at the very limits of its range, the switch to the A333 would probably not phase them too badly. However, AA operates the aircraft on many short, high density routes that would be economically crippled by the much heavier structure of the A333. Airbus has no modern replacement for the A306. Period. And beyond all that, the 787-3 will be such an efficient, able replacement for the A306 at AA that to make an argument for any other equipment would be a waste of time.
     
    ConcordeBoy
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:34 pm

    Quoting Kappel (Reply 17):

    I keep wondering about this. Why hasn't Airbus developed any replacements for the A300/A310 market yet?



    Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 21):
    there is no direct replacement for the A300/310 series over at Airbus, the main reason is that there does not seem to be a huge market for a 200-250 seat medium haul airliner.

    ....there's something else you two are missing though.

    Keep in mind that much of the original financing for the A300 program were loans very different than those covered by the 1992 agreement.

    Some, not all, of these will not require aggregate/any repayment until that particular model line is shut-- which is why Airbus will do absolutely everything in its power to keep the line open until it is no longer justifiable, to any conceivable means, to continue thus.
    Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
     
    abirda
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:16 pm

    Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 40):
    Some, not all, of these will not require aggregate/any repayment until that particular model line is shut-- which is why Airbus will do absolutely everything in its power to keep the line open until it is no longer justifiable, to any conceivable means, to continue thus.

    I had no idea this sort of financing was in place regarding the A300. I suppose only time will tell if Airbus has missed out by not providing a replacement to the A300/A310 and competitor to the 787-3.
     
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    mariner
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:44 pm

    Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 40):
    Some, not all, of these will not require aggregate/any repayment until that particular model line is shut-- which is why Airbus will do absolutely everything in its power to keep the line open until it is no longer justifiable, to any conceivable means, to continue thus.

    Source, please.

    cheers

    mariner
    aeternum nauta
     
    kappel
    Posts: 1836
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 7:47 pm

    Quoting AbirdA (Reply 41):
    I had no idea this sort of financing was in place regarding the A300. I suppose only time will tell if Airbus has missed out by not providing a replacement to the A300/A310 and competitor to the 787-3.

    Indeed. i do realize that the loans were on different terms back then, and probably covered most of the development costs of the a300/a310. It seems recently A is focussing more on bigger aircraft. I can hardly believe that there is no market for this size aircraft. The market for the 787-3 may be relatively small, seeing the current orders. But I think the 787-8 market is huge. Then again, I am no market specialist. I just think that all those 762's and 763's will need to be replaced sooner rather than later, and A has no new alternative.

    Also, what I think is important to note is that the A350 is the first replacement aircraft (even though they keep claiming its not) from A ever. To replace the A333 and A343. Everything else from the A300 has been new markets. (A320fam., A345 and A346, A380, etc). And they decided to battle the 772 with this one. Time will tell wich choice was right. I think right now it's too early to tell, since the A350 hasn't been offred (especially in its current form whatever that may be) as long as the 787.
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    NYCAAer
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:19 pm

    Quoting AbirdA (Reply 36):
    I believe at least a 787-3 (if not 787-8 as well) order from AA is very close.

    Our internal employee website has stated AA is most interested in the 787-9.
     
    trex8
    Posts: 4576
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fle

    Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:55 am

    Quoting AbirdA (Reply 39):
    This statement has no meaning without specifying the average stage length CI is using the A333s in. If AA was using the A306 all the time at the very limits of its range, the switch to the A333 would probably not phase them too badly. However, AA operates the aircraft on many short, high density routes that would be economically crippled by the much heavier structure of the A333. Airbus has no modern replacement for the A306. Period. And beyond all that, the 787-3 will be such an efficient, able replacement for the A306 at AA that to make an argument for any other equipment would be a waste of time.

    IIRC the statement was only earlier this year at which time CI was only flying the A333 on routes like TPE or KHH-HKG/TYO and maybe to BKK. Whats that 500-1500miles?? They do several flights a day TPE/KHH-HKG. Which must be their shortest A306 route also.

    [Edited 2005-07-17 20:58:11]
     
    abirda
    Posts: 296
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    RE: Questions About The American Airlines A300 Fleet

    Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:10 am

    Quoting Trex8 (Reply 45):
    IIRC the statement was only earlier this year at which time CI was only flying the A333 on routes like TPE or KHH-HKG/TYO and maybe to BKK. Whats that 500-1500miles?? They do several flights a day TPE/KHH-HKG. Which must be their shortest A306 route also.

    I have significant trouble understanding how an aircraft of such heavy structure can do that profitably. Like I have said before, it's the same as trying to fly the 736 on very short routes. However, I will concede that the improved per-seat economics of the A333 over the A332 do help the operating numbers. One would have to assume that AA would take on the A332, rather than take on the massive capacity increase that the A333 would bring when configured in the same high density format as the current A306.

    The whole thing is sort of useless to discuss anyway. I stand by the fact the no modern Airbus exists with the sort of operating capabilities and economics (for that matter, the A306 didn't have the capabilities to begin with) that AA wants in its high density, high frequency, quick turnaround Latin American hauler. Gordon Bethune will be working at EADS before AA takes another Airbus.

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