rootsair
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Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:34 am

An antonov has just crashed with 85 people on board while flying between Malabo and Bata.This just happend ,just heard in on the news but haven't found a link bout it yet.

[Edited 2005-07-16 18:38:53]
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
rootsair
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:13 am

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/news...603_RTRUKOC_0_EQUATORIAL-PLANE.xml

Here is the source. People don't seem to giv much about it as says the number of replies. However if it was in the western world people would give a bit more... everyone deserves the same respect. May god bless all those epople gone missing R.I.P

Regards
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
stirling
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:31 am

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
An antonov has just crashed with 85 people on board

The article from Rueters says the Antonov had 48 on board.

Probably an AN-24 or AN-26.
Delete this User
 
EZEIZA
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:39 am

Any idea on the reg of the aircraft?

BBC has no further info, but are saying that 45 people on boards

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4689787.stm

R.I.P. to all involved

[Edited 2005-07-16 20:42:34]
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
backfire
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:53 am

...Russian-made plane carrying 48 people went missing...


Come on, Reuters, even you should know by now that Antonov is Ukrainian. Big grin
 
380ORD
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Sun Jul 17, 2005 4:35 am

Boston radio station reports plane as an Anatov-32-reports it left radar screen soon after takeoff
 
AR385
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Sun Jul 17, 2005 4:52 am

Spanish newspaper "ABC" says it was Air Equateur and there were 85 people on board, not 48.

[http://www.abc.es/abc/pg050716/actualidad/internacional/internacional/200507/16/guinea_avion.asp]
 
tjr16698
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:05 am

This is the BBC website. may explain the discrepancies in passenger numbers.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4689787.stm

A plane carrying at least 45 people has crashed shortly after taking off in Equatorial Guinea, officials say.
The passengers are all feared killed in the crash near Baney, 17 km (10 miles) from Malabo, Deputy Prime Minister Ricardo Mangue Obama told Reuters.

The Russian-built Antonov aircraft was flying from the island capital, Malabo, to the mainland city of Bata.

Military aircraft are searching for the plane, operated by Equatair, which the may have crashed into the sea.

'Flames'

The plane was thought to be carrying about 35 passengers and some 10 crew, although exact numbers are not known.

The missing plane, a 42-seater, may have been carrying up to 80 people, reports said.

As well as passengers, crew members often accept bribes to allow extra people on board.

The plane took off at about 1000 (0900 GMT), and disappeared shortly after it became airborne.

The AFP news agency reported that a witness working on an offshore oil platform saw flames coming from the side of the plane shortly after take-off.

The plane then tilted and fell, the anonymous witness said.

Equatorial Guinea's capital, Malabo, is situated on an island and much travel to the mainland is by regular air service.
 
nwafflyer
Posts: 888
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:09 am

If the plane seats 42 people, how would 80 be on board? Even with bribery, there just isn't room for that many people -- I can see people sitting in the aisle, but no more than 2 in each row
 
ltbewr
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:01 am

If this was a case of where bribery ended up severly overboarding this a/c, then all of those in authority of the airline ought to be fired, tried for murder and upon conviction jailed for long time. The airline in question should also have their operating license revoked and a new operator put in with strict controls on sales and boarding.
I do feel sorry and mourn for the dead, but some of them had to know full well that their bribery was increasing their risk from overboarding, and why didn't some get off the a/c?
 
AR385
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:48 am

Knowig the Antonovs, I would think they could take 37 more passengers than their max and not be grossly overloaded. I guess maybe they also had cargo. But, will a captain be so stupid as to allow his plane to reach an unflyable weight?
 
FLY2LIM
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:26 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 9):
If this was a case of where bribery ended up severly overboarding this a/c, then all of those in authority of the airline ought to be fired, tried for murder and upon conviction jailed for long time. The airline in question should also have their operating license revoked and a new operator put in with strict controls on sales and boarding.
I do feel sorry and mourn for the dead, but some of them had to know full well that their bribery was increasing their risk from overboarding, and why didn't some get off the a/c?

It is nice to live in the United States, where businesses are monitored and safety is ensured by the government and the population in general. In other countries, where poverty is rampant, these things happen all the time. Some of you people need to get out from under a rock. The "civilized" countries are the only ones where rules are followed. In other places, there are no rules, no one cares, and no one takes responsibility.
This does not make the loss of life any less important. I'm merely stating that some of you people need to get a little more informed about what happens in the rest of the world.

FLY2LIM
Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
 
sprout5199
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:55 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 1):
However if it was in the western world people would give a bit more... everyone deserves the same respect

and yet two replies later

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 3):
Any idea on the reg of the aircraft?

Its not just the west(US) that doesnt care.

RIP to those onboard and their families

Dan in Jupiter
 
EZEIZA
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Sun Jul 17, 2005 4:09 pm

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 12):
Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 3):
Any idea on the reg of the aircraft?

Its not just the west(US) that doesnt care.

What? I DO care and that's why I added the "RIP". I also would like to know what aircraft as involved ... is that a bad thing?

[Edited 2005-07-17 09:21:37]
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
AR385
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:32 pm

FLY2LIM

Right, you forget ENRON, MCI, Martha Stewart, Watergate, rampant illegal drug consumption (while authorities look the other way), Irangate, City bank and its constant aid to launder or hide money from questionable characters, Arthur Andersen (the accounting arm) AA pilots bringing drugs hidden on their plane from certain SouthAmerican flights, highest concentration of pedophiles in the world, Cornea transplants traffic again by pilots (the worst corneas CO and AA ) and on and on and on.

Perhaps you should come out of under the rock. The US is one of the most corrupt countries in the world, and I'm not saying Mexico is Germany, I know,
but ignorance is bliss right?
 
IL76TD
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:13 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 9):

You obviously have never operated an airline in Africa.

If there were flames shooting from the aircraft, then it didn't crash due to overloading. If it was an AN-24 you could easily fit 70-80 people in, especially the way some africans will sit on each other, and if it was a short route you wouldn't even be overloaded.

I operate 2 antonov-24's in the middle east and africa, and I know many other companies that operate solely in Africa (equatorial guinea is clean compared to the corruption you put up with in congo).
 
IL76TD
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:15 pm

55 onboard by the way, and a very short flight, so no, overloading wasn't an issue.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:45 pm

I won't deny the substantual corruption in the USA that puts people in danger every day. The problem as this crash shows, is the structural, obscene and epedemic levels of corruption in many parts of Africa as well in many other places in the world, that puts innocents at risk and discourages investment by the richer countries that could improve their lives. I realize of course that Western political and economic colonialism, the support of 'friendly' leaders whom don't really give a damm of their own people, contributed to their current problems, and a desprite need by many people to seek bribes just for their survival. In many places in this board there has been posts discussing the extortion of bribes or 'special fees' of many US$100's from airline passangers, assumed to be 'rich' by the standards of 3rd world countries, to assure a seat on a flight, not have your luggage screwed up or stolen, that you won't be assulted and to get by customs and border controls. What is being assumed happened in this crash that it had an excessive number of passangers or freight that was the result of an obscene level of bribery.
 
FLY2LIM
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:53 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):
FLY2LIM

Right, you forget ENRON, MCI, Martha Stewart, Watergate, rampant illegal drug consumption (while authorities look the other way), Irangate, City bank and its constant aid to launder or hide money from questionable characters, Arthur Andersen (the accounting arm) AA pilots bringing drugs hidden on their plane from certain SouthAmerican flights, highest concentration of pedophiles in the world, Cornea transplants traffic again by pilots (the worst corneas CO and AA ) and on and on and on.

Perhaps you should come out of under the rock. The US is one of the most corrupt countries in the world, and I'm not saying Mexico is Germany, I know,
but ignorance is bliss right?

AR385:
Your reply has merit, except for the fact that I kept mine strictly on the commercial aviation venue. I don't "forget" any of the situations you mention. I live in the US and I was born and raised in Peru, a country where corruption is the rule, even more than your darling Mexico. So, I am perfectly aware of everything you mention.
I find this discussion particularly funny since your occupation states that you are a state government official. I'm sure you have seen your share of corruption.
Mexico has Salinas de Gortari and we have Fujimori. ¡Viva la democracia!
FLY2LIM
Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
 
EZEIZA
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:07 am

Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 18):
Mexico has Salinas de Gortari and we have Fujimori. ¡Viva la democracia!

And Argentina has .... too long to mention, sorry!
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
Blackbird1331
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:20 am

Welcome to A.Net, where there is always difficulty staying on topic. If all you want are the facts, go to the NTSB or Airdisaster.com. What this site, and the world in general, needs, is tolerance.

Rest in peace, dearly departed.
Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
 
soyuzavia
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:58 am

Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 11):
It is nice to live in the United States, where businesses are monitored and safety is ensured by the government and the population in general.

ValuJet? Alaska Airlines?

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/alas13.shtml

The Seattle Post-Intelligencer reported last year that several FAA inspectors in the agency's Flight Standards Division office in Renton say they have been pressured by superiors to take it easy on Alaska, and were punished when they tried to strictly enforce FAA regulations.

...

Some FAA inspectors assigned to Alaska Airlines alleged they were penalized by supervisors when they were strict in enforcing federal regulations. FAA inspectors have been disciplined and moved to other jobs after airline managers or pilots campaigned against them.

For example, in 1993, FAA inspectors discovered that some Alaska pilots -- including the vice president for flight operations -- failed to attend required training sessions, but signed rosters saying they had. Ultimately, the FAA stripped five pilots of their captain's papers.


http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2002/AAR0201.htm

The safety issues discussed in this report include lubrication and inspection of the jackscrew assembly, extension of lubrication and end play check intervals, jackscrew assembly overhaul procedures, the design and certification of the MD-80 horizontal stabilizer trim control system, Alaska Airlines’ maintenance program, and FAA oversight of Alaska Airlines. Safety recommendations are addressed to the FAA.

That's just two examples of on occasions of lack of oversight, or lack of enforcing regulations.

And if you want an example of corruption in the US, one need look no further than the US firetanker fleet.

So please don't be generally patronising and going on about 'civilised' countries, because even these so-called civilised countries have their fair share of problems in regards to screw ups and corruption in their civil aviation industry.

I operate 2 antonov-24's in the middle east and africa, and I know many other companies that operate solely in Africa (equatorial guinea is clean compared to the corruption you put up with in congo).

In terms of civil aviation, Equatorial Guinea is just as corrupt as Congo. There is a reason Victor Bout registers his aircraft in Equatorial Guinea. As do most dodgy outfits, particularly those 'based' in Sharjah.
 
AR385
Posts: 6742
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:23 am

Quoting FLY2LIM (Reply 18):
I find this discussion particularly funny since your occupation states that you are a state government official. I'm sure you have seen your share of corruption.

FLY2LIM,

Some of us, State Government Officials are not corrupt. Maybe you find that funny, which is sick, but we do our job right and with no dirtiness. And you know what? we love it. Plus, I take responsibility and I care about rules. I don't have tons of lawyers behind me telling me how to bend a rule with the least of consequences.

Now, as I've said before, I am somewhat surprised that the Antonov aircraft crash is initially blamed on overloading. Those planes are made to last in the most rugged of conditions, so some extra undernourished Africans are not going to make it crash. I wish there was more info. but most of us are just arm-chair FS2004 pilots. I have the CUBANA DVD from "Just Planes" And there you can see what the AN-24-26, etc. is capable of doing. I think I am becoming pretty sure it was a maintenance issue, as there are always witnesses in every crash that see "flames" coming out of whatever plane before it crashes.

[Edited 2005-07-17 22:28:46]
 
IL76TD
Posts: 280
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:28 pm

Quoting Soyuzavia (Reply 21):

Well, your point would be valid, however 3C registrations have been banned from SHJ for some time without sale or heavy mx exemptions, so it would be quite difficult to register aircraft there and base them in SHJ at this point.

Vbout switched to Kazakhstan registrations in 2001

I'm not talking about civil aviation corruption in these countries, I'm talking about corrupt crews, agents, companies. The flight crews are the #1 reason so many planes crash in Africa. They are willing to take bribes to do STUPID things with aircraft, and as half of africa is a military zone it is difficult to set up 'official' stations at many of the places the planes fly to.

[Edited 2005-07-18 06:32:54]

[Edited 2005-07-18 06:35:28]
 
chieft
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RE: Antonov Crash In Equatorial Guinea

Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:26 pm

Well, Lake Victoria is one of the places, which are sometimes slot restricted and you require a slot for a crash into the lake.

Lot's of crews accept payments from agents asking them to overload aircraft. Have a look to Mwanza, there you can see about daily the "fish bombers" flying very low over Lake Victoria...
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.