Jetblue15
Topic Author
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Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:51 am

I'm going to LA in Sept and wanna fly a non US carrier. Perhaps it sounds funny to some of you but I wanna try to fly something other then B6 to LGB or any of the other US carriers to LAX. Is it possible? Thanks in advance.

Jetblue15
racecar spelled backwards spells racecar
 
flypdx
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:53 am

I don't think any non-us carriers fly this route, and have it open for passengers that aren't continuing on to somewhere else. (Like Qantas for example)
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:21 am

Quoting Flypdx (Reply 1):
I don't think any non-us carriers fly this route, and have it open for passengers that aren't continuing on to somewhere else. (Like Qantas for example)

That is correct, you can not buy a seat on those flights.

There are many such examples such as BA and LY, but they are not available unless you are continuing on with them.
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:24 am

Non-US carriers do not have local traffic rights of those routes; connecting traffic only.
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
Jetblue15
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:30 am

Thats what I thought. Thanks for the info. How about wide body service to LAX?
racecar spelled backwards spells racecar
 
uaord2000
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:34 am

Give UA p.s. service a shot. I think you will be shocked at the high level of quality service offered.
 
UnitedFirst
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:38 am

How about wide body service to LAX?

Definitely AA's 767 American Flagship Service. I'm pretty sure that Delta's widebody 767 equipment has now been replaced in favor of Song service.

However, if you want true international comfort, I've got two letters for you:



(Click to check it out.)

Derek
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:41 am

Quoting Jetblue15 (Reply 4):
Thats what I thought. Thanks for the info. How about wide body service to LAX?

American or United.

If you feel like taking an *exotic* carrier, take American Buzzard (Eagle), Air Canada Saxophone, or one of Continental’s Barbie Dream Jets up to YYZ then take LY’s 777 to LAX.

 spin 
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
MAH4546
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:43 am

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 7):
If you feel like taking an *exotic* carrier, take American Buzzard (Eagle), Air Canada Saxophone, or one of Continental�s Barbie Dream Jets up to YYZ then take LY�s 777 to LAX.

El Al hasn't used 777s (or 744s) to LAX in a while. They now use 763s and 762s.
a.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:44 am

Quoting Jetblue15 (Thread starter):
Perhaps it sounds funny to some of you but I wanna try to fly something other then B6 to LGB or any of the other US carriers to LAX. Is it possible?

Sure. You could take AC via YYZ, or AM or MX via MEX. It'll cost you, though, since you'll have to book the two legs separately. Besides, you might have some explaining to do when you go back through immigration...  Smile
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
uaord2000
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:00 am

United has the best product in this market. Hands down.
 
BOSPMV
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:16 am

Quoting UAORD2000 (Reply 10):
United has the best product in this market. Hands down.

Is the P.S service really worth it? I always fly UA when I go to California, I fly out to SFO and LAX combined atleast 10 times a year and always take the non-stops out of BOS. Me and my co-workers have no problem settling for coach, when first class is booked solid, which always seems to happen.

Sadly, I would have no way of connecting in JFK on UA, without taking a different airline, such as AA or B6 and then switching over to UA. Would it really be worth all that?
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:18 am

Definitely try United on JFK-LAX. The service is very good, quite surprising actually. You have to do it. Otherwise you can get a wide-body on AA but I think the UA service is EXCELLENT on this route. I know many people who have taken it and they LOVE it.

UA all the way

 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:22 am

 
Jetblue15
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:23 am

Well its settled then. I'm going to book with the P.S with UA. I trust you guys so I'll all let you know how it goes. I'm doing one way though. Going back with B6. Its free for me so I'll save alittle bit of money. Everybody is helpful as always.

Jetblue15
racecar spelled backwards spells racecar
 
zvezda
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:44 am

Of course, one can fly JFK-LAX on a foreign carrier. For example, buy a one-way ticket on QF JFK-SYD. Don't reboard in LAX.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:50 am

So, has anyone flown on these "foreign" domestic flights?

What type of service does QF do transcon?
What's BA like on its flights from ORD to Texas or LY to MIA?

Anyone done these?
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N1120A
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:06 pm

Quoting Jetblue15 (Thread starter):
I'm going to LA in Sept and wanna fly a non US carrier.

You cannot get one unless you are a non-rev.

Quoting Jetblue15 (Thread starter):
B6 to LGB or any of the other US carriers to LAX.

Ok, how about B6 to ONT or BUR?

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
There are many such examples such as BA and LY

Neither one of which flies LAX-NYC

Quoting Jetblue15 (Reply 4):
How about wide body service to LAX?

AA

Quoting UnitedFirst (Reply 6):
I'm pretty sure that Delta's widebody 767 equipment has now been replaced in favor of Song service.

Yes

Quoting BOSPMV (Reply 11):
Is the P.S service really worth it?

Yes, it is actually very nice and competitively priced, as long as you don't have to divert to IAD

Quoting Jetblue15 (Reply 14):
Well its settled then. I'm going to book with the P.S with UA. I trust you guys so I'll all let you know how it goes. I'm doing one way though. Going back with B6. Its free for me so I'll save alittle bit of money. Everybody is helpful as always.

If you can non-rev with B6, why can't you non-rev with UA, or QF for that matter?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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legacyins
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:07 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):
Of course, one can fly JFK-LAX on a foreign carrier. For example, buy a one-way ticket on QF JFK-SYD. Don't reboard in LAX.

True you can probably do this but you also will need a passport an electronic visa to Australia. I am sure when the pax checks in at JFK, they will be checking for this.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:11 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
There are many such examples such as BA and LY

Neither one of which flies LAX-NYC

No sh*&T, it was an another example of international airlines flying within the US....get over your self.....see the word "examples".
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
N1120A
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:13 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 19):
No sh*&T, it was an another example of international airlines flying within the US....get over your self.....see the word "examples".

Don't get your panties in a bunch. You were not clear about it and I just pointed it out.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
airxliban
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:46 pm

Where does BA fly domestically within the US?
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:19 pm

Airxliban,
BA flies ORD-IAH.....
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
aeroweanie
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:48 pm

Regarding the original question, the ICAO freedoms are listed below. Eighth Freedom (Cabotage) and Ninth Freedom (Stand Alone Cabotage) are rare. I don't believe any foreign carrier has such rights in the US.

First Freedom of the Air - the right or privilege, in respect of scheduled international air services, granted by one State to another State or States to fly across its territory without landing (also known as a First Freedom Right).

Second Freedom of the Air - the right or privilege, in respect of scheduled international air services, granted by one State to another State of States to land in its territory for non-traffic purposes (also known as a Second Freedom Right).

Third Freedom of The Air - the right or privilege, in respect of scheduled international air services, granted by one State to another State to put down, in the territory of the first State, traffic coming from the home State of the carrier (also known as a Third Freedom Right).

Fourth Freedom of The Air - the right or privilege, in respect of scheduled international air services, granted by one State to another State to take on, in the territory of the first State, traffic destined for the home State of the carrier (also known as a Fourth Freedom Right).

Fifth Freedom of The Air - the right or privilege, in respect of scheduled international air services, granted by one State to another State to put down and to take on, in the territory of the first State, traffic coming from or destined to a third State (also known as a Fifth Freedom Right).
ICAO characterizes all "freedoms" beyond the Fifth as "so-called" because only the first five "freedoms" have been officially recognized as such by international treaty.

Sixth Freedom of The Air - the right or privilege, in respect of scheduled international air services, of transporting, via the home State of the carrier, traffic moving between two other States (also known as a Sixth Freedom Right). The so-called Sixth Freedom of the Air, unlike the first five freedoms, is not incorporated as such into any widely recognized air service agreements such as the "Five Freedoms Agreement".

Seventh Freedom of The Air - the right or privilege, in respect of scheduled international air services, granted by one State to another State, of transporting traffic between the territory of the granting State and any third State with no requirement to include on such operation any point in the territory of the recipient State, i.e the service need not connect to or be an extension of any service to/from the home State of the carrier.

Eighth Freedom of The Air - the right or privilege, in respect of scheduled international air services, of transporting cabotage traffic between two points in the territory of the granting State on a service which originates or terminates in the home country of the foreign carrier or (in connection with the so-called Seventh Freedom of the Air) outside the territory of the granting State (also known as a Eighth Freedom Right or "consecutive cabotage").

Ninth Freedom of The Air - the right or privilege of transporting cabotage traffic of the granting State on a service performed entirely within the territory of the granting State (also known as a Ninth Freedom Right or "stand alone" cabotage).

Source: Manual on the Regulation of International Air Transport (Doc 9626, Part 4)
 
GuyBetsy1
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:03 pm

Only a few ways to fly within US/Canada on non-US/Canadian carriers...

LAX-YYZ on El Al.
LAS-YVR on Philippine Airlines
JFK-YVR on Cathay Pacific

You could perhaps fly... from NYC to YYZ to connect to LAX on El Al, or NYC to YVR on Cathay, and fly from YVR to LAS on Philippines Airline.

But it's gonna cost ya.
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:15 pm

I suggest you fly Qantas from JFK to LAX they only fly to JFK on Wednesdays. The flight is flown by the B747-400.
No Vueling No Party
 
N1120A
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:34 pm

Quoting GuyBetsy1 (Reply 24):
You could perhaps fly... from NYC to YYZ to connect to LAX on El Al, or NYC to YVR on Cathay, and fly from YVR to LAS on Philippines Airline.

But it's gonna cost ya.

The travel agent that booked it may be subject to penalties, particularly on the CX/Philippines itinerary.

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 25):
I suggest you fly Qantas from JFK to LAX they only fly to JFK on Wednesdays. The flight is flown by the B747-400.

Actually, it is 3 days per week, and unless they are a non-rev, they cannot book the flight
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
tockeyhockey
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:05 pm

P.S. service may be an improvement over normal UA trans-con service, but UA could also use an improved copy writer. who wrote this garbage?!

Now there's an exclusive new way to travel coast to coast, one that makes something purely special out of every flight.

Maybe it's a sumptuous meal enjoyed in a serene and stylish atmosphere.
Or the luxury of having a bit more legroom than you know what to do with. Whatever your own reasons may be, we hope your time with p.s. will end
with a pleasant memory and a promise to return.


With routes to only a trio of cities, one might say that p.s. is a service with a selective air about it. It's quite true. There is something about New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco that calls for a sophisticated touch. That means refining our service to better provide a better experience for bicoastal business travelers, whom we hold in the highest regards.


there are several grammatical errors and some otherwise terrible, cliched writing in this paragraph. did anyone check it before they posted it?
 
Jetblue15
Topic Author
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:54 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
f you can non-rev with B6, why can't you non-rev with UA, or QF for that matter?

I'd be flying ID90 with BA and Qantas and its a pain in the ass setting up the paperwork.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Ok, how about B6 to ONT or BUR?


Its better for me to fly to LGB if I'm going to fly with B6. Theres alot more flights and flying non-rev I want the most flights just in case I can't get on. Plus my friend lives alot closer to LGB.
racecar spelled backwards spells racecar
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:20 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 26):
Quoting GuyBetsy1 (Reply 24):
You could perhaps fly... from NYC to YYZ to connect to LAX on El Al, or NYC to YVR on Cathay, and fly from YVR to LAS on Philippines Airline.

But it's gonna cost ya.

The travel agent that booked it may be subject to penalties, particularly on the CX/Philippines itinerary.

But, if there is a stopover (> 4 hrs) in YVR, no?

 spin 
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
uaord2000
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:13 am

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 27):
P.S. service may be an improvement over normal UA trans-con service, but UA could also use an improved copy writer. who wrote this garbage?!

Now there's an exclusive new way to travel coast to coast, one that makes something purely special out of every flight.

Maybe it's a sumptuous meal enjoyed in a serene and stylish atmosphere.
Or the luxury of having a bit more legroom than you know what to do with. Whatever your own reasons may be, we hope your time with p.s. will end
with a pleasant memory and a promise to return.


With routes to only a trio of cities, one might say that p.s. is a service with a selective air about it. It's quite true. There is something about New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco that calls for a sophisticated touch. That means refining our service to better provide a better experience for bicoastal business travelers, whom we hold in the highest regards.

there are several grammatical errors and some otherwise terrible, cliched writing in this paragraph. did anyone check it before they posted it?

I dont see any gramatical errors in this. And what is a "copy writer?"
 
westindian425
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:41 am

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 9):
Besides, you might have some explaining to do when you go back through immigration...

Happened to me one time when I flew Air Jamaica JFK-ATL via MBJ. I was working for them at the time so I was non-rev.

Neil
God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:59 am

Interesting way to go! Did they give you a hassle? I know someone whose NYC-DEN flight was cancelled due to bad weather and the only way they could get there in a reasonable amount of time was to fly AC via YYZ. It actually worked out very well for them--geographically, it's barely out of the way, so it was pretty quick and painless. And in that particular case they had no trouble at all from immigration--they just came right back through at YYZ--but that was years before 9/11 when everyone was a bit more understanding.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
UAalltheway
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:15 am

The international airlines won't let you onto that flight unless you're connecting onto another one of THEIR flights. I tried to get on an AirChina flight from IAH to SEA but I couldn't. Since that narrows the choice to AA or UA, I'd definitly say get on UA with P.S. service.. and if you have miles try to get and upgrade to business on first.. and than right a trip report telling us all how great it was! =P
 
AEROFAN
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:27 am

If you are talking about non revving then you can use Qantas. I nonreved on their flight 5 times last year and twice already this year.

If you are not an airline employee - then sorry you can't do.
 
User avatar
legacyins
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:31 am

Quoting UAalltheway (Reply 33):
I tried to get on an AirChina flight from IAH to SEA but I couldn't

Air China does not fly between SEA-IAH. You probably mean China Airlines, no wonder you could not get on  bouncy 
 
westindian425
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:37 am

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 32):
Interesting way to go! Did they give you a hassle?

Not really. They were shocked that I had to go through all that trouble, but I showed them my ID and explained that I was non-rev. That was it. Besides, I didn't have much luggage at all.  Smile

Neil
God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground
 
QantasHeavy
Posts: 277
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:51 am

Regarding experience flying domestic legs on a foreign flag carrier (as part of an international flight) and the level of service they provide... I have flown BA LHR-ORD-IAH (777ER) and QF JFK-LAX-MEL (change from one QF 744 to another at LAX).

The service is the same as international. Same level of catering and IFE. But everyone on the plane is, of course, going to an international destination or has originated from one.
 
ilgrancapo
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Wed Jul 27, 2005 5:59 pm

CZ-706 from JFK to LAX. I saw it in Amadeus system with daily flight.
 
emrecan
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RE: Flying A Non US Carrier From JFK To LAX

Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:34 pm

I dont know if you can fly but may be with Saudia?