PITA333
Topic Author
Posts: 330
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:59 am

CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:40 am

I know that this has been discussed before but I'm interested in how this route is doing this year now that it has returned. Is the 757 filling up or is it going over half full? Any insight would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
PITA333
 
N766UA
Posts: 7843
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:02 am

I don't know about this year, but I know in the past the CLE-LGW leg has been nearly full every time. Maybe Falcon can help us with his access to coair.com?
This Website Censors Me
 
FlyHoss
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:20 pm

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:44 am

From what I've seen, primarily checking the loads out of curiosity when passing through CLE, CO66 CLE-LGW tends to run pretty heavy but not always at capacity.
A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
 
ewr767
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:01 am

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:18 am

I can tell you from first hand experience as I fly that route. The loads are FULL.
 
goCOgo
Posts: 680
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:24 am

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:26 am

It's doing well enough that next year is already available for booking. Too bad it can't maintain the loads during winter and has to go away.
"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
 
PITA333
Topic Author
Posts: 330
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:59 am

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Tue Jul 19, 2005 8:30 am

Thanks for all of your answers, for some reason I thought the route was dead.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4492
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:10 pm

The British CAA site says 8707 pax for the month of June, 2005 on LGW-CLE. That's an average of 145 a day in one direction or a load factor of about 84% on a 752. In terms of rear cabin comfort, more than half the middle seats are occupied.

84% means the flight is full on the most popular days and CO is probably turning away some business.
 
coewr777
Posts: 420
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:50 am

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:28 pm

I can go on coair and check. Hold on
 
coewr777
Posts: 420
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:50 am

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:39 pm

Ok just checked 8 dates.

All of them were going out about 90% full sorry if i am wrong with the percent cant do it off the top of my head.

6 of the dates had 160 people booked the 757 holds 170

the other two had 130 or so people.
 
swatpamike
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:00 pm

Hello all


Just a question COEWR777, will that service be running in October? Was planning a trip to the Duxford airshow on the 16.

Cheers

swatpamike
 
ARGinLON
Posts: 550
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:26 pm

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:47 pm

Quoting Swatpamike (Reply 9):
Just a question COEWR777, will that service be running in October? Was planning a trip to the Duxford airshow on the 16

It finishes on the 1st of October
 
VS747SPUR
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:35 am

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:41 pm

Loads seem very favourable which is great.
Why is there little demand in the winter though ?

VS747SPUR
Fly DL
 
cle757
Posts: 798
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:28 am

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:47 pm

Right now the LGW-CLE portion is running about 90-100%, the CLE-LGW portion is running 80-90%..In May and June it was the opposite.

Quoting VS747SPUR (Reply 11):
Loads seem very favourable which is great.
Why is there little demand in the winter though ?

Some days in the winter it did very well, others it did not..But I think it should operate at least 4-5 days per week in the winter.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:42 am

I heard again and again that CO would like to get the CLE-LGW back to a year-round operation as soon as it makes financial sense - operating 5 flights per week during the low demand winter period. It doent seem to be happening for the Winter 2005 schedule, so maybe next year.

From what CLE757 stated above, the loads seem rather good this summer on the route (80-90% loads and full on certain days)......is this better than in previous years?
 
cle757
Posts: 798
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:28 am

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:31 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
From what CLE757 stated above, the loads seem rather good this summer on the route (80-90% loads and full on certain days)......is this better than in previous years?

The loads are probably slightly better, than last year, but the ticket revenue is surely up with all the fare increases.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4492
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:43 am

It has been regularly been said by posters here that CO wants to run the flight all year. So what's stopping them? April and October would be modestly profitable; Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Presidents Day holiday periods would probably be profitable. So that leaves about 80 days of off-season trouble. If they cut 2 or 3 flights a week during the "quiet periods," they could minimize the loss.

Two problems are: 1) can CO easily get the winter slot back? 2) do they really care about CLE? During their earnings conference call this morning they referred to "all the hubs" doing well, but gave specifics only for EWR and IAH. The "C" word was never mentioned by anybody.
 
joeman
Posts: 661
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:52 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 15):
It has been regularly been said by posters here that CO wants to run the flight all year. So what's stopping them?



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 15):
If they cut 2 or 3 flights a week during the "quiet periods," they could minimize the loss.



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 15):
do they really care about CLE? During their earnings conference call this morning they referred to "all the hubs" doing well, but gave specifics only for EWR and IAH. The "C" word was never mentioned by anybody.

Unfortunately, as usual...
 
VS11
Posts: 892
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 6:34 am

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:22 am

Why would they run the service during the winter, if there is not enough demand, when they can send those CLE pax to LON via EWR? My understanding is that the 757 European strategy is only for the summer. Well, the 787 may change that - isnt it meant for this type routes?
 
joeman
Posts: 661
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:41 am

Quoting VS11 (Reply 17):
My understanding is that the 757 European strategy is only for the summer

Are all the new EWR-Europe services proposed to end for winter likewise? Maybe so, does anyone know for sure?

Quoting VS11 (Reply 17):
Well, the 787 may change that - isnt it meant for this type routes?

I believe so, but
 
ARGinLON
Posts: 550
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:26 pm

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:45 am

Quoting Joeman (Reply 18):
Are all the new EWR-Europe services proposed to end for winter likewise? Maybe so, does anyone know for sure?

The only CO European summer route is LGWCLE. All the others will be reduced in terms of frequencies but will operate during the winter months. For example, BRSEWR goes down to five weekly.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:52 am

CO will operate the 757s from EWR to Europe year round - some cities will see a reduction in frequency from daily to 5 times per week. CO will also use the 757 on its second daily departures from EWR to LGW, CDG and AMS this winter.......thus each of those cities will see 2 flights per day from EWR, one with a 777 or 767 and the other with a 757.

CLE-LGW continues to be a seasonal route - as has been discuseed, although the flight does well during the summer, CO will not commit to operating the flight during the winter season for financial reasons.
 
joeman
Posts: 661
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:08 am

Quoting ARGinLON (Reply 19):
The only CO European summer route is LGWCLE. All the others will be reduced in terms of frequencies but will operate during the winter months. For example, BRSEWR goes down to five weekly.

Interesting, another thread about the new BRS-EWR route discusses the low load factors this new route has been experiencing this summer. The yield must be very good.
 
joeman
Posts: 661
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:20 am

Quoting Ewr767 (Reply 3):
can tell you from first hand experience as I fly that route. The loads are FULL.



Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 4):
It's doing well enough that next year is already available for booking. Too bad it can't maintain the loads during winter and has to go away.



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 6):
The British CAA site says 8707 pax for the month of June, 2005 on LGW-CLE. That's an average of 145 a day in one direction or a load factor of about 84% on a 752. In terms of rear cabin comfort, more than half the middle seats are occupied.

84% means the flight is full on the most popular days and CO is probably turning away some business.



Quoting COEWR777 (Reply 8):
Ok just checked 8 dates.

All of them were going out about 90% full sorry if i am wrong with the percent cant do it off the top of my head.

6 of the dates had 160 people booked the 757 holds 170

the other two had 130 or so people.



Quoting CLE757 (Reply 12):
Right now the LGW-CLE portion is running about 90-100%, the CLE-LGW portion is running 80-90%..In May and June it was the opposite.



Quoting Joeman (Reply 21):
Quoting ARGinLON (Reply 19):
The only CO European summer route is LGWCLE. All the others will be reduced in terms of frequencies but will operate during the winter months. For example, BRSEWR goes down to five weekly.

Interesting, another thread about the new BRS-EWR route discusses the low load factors this new route has been experiencing this summer. The yield must be very good.



Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 15):
It has been regularly been said by posters here that CO wants to run the flight all year. So what's stopping them? April and October would be modestly profitable; Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Presidents Day holiday periods would probably be profitable. So that leaves about 80 days of off-season trouble. If they cut 2 or 3 flights a week during the "quiet periods," they could minimize the loss.

INDEED!!
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:04 pm

Most days, you're looking at at least 12 up front, and around 130 at least in the back. Haven't had the overbooked flights like in the past, but most days the loads are good. I think the bombings in London have made some people cancel their records, since loads are down a bit. There are days when it's not very full, but overall, the loads are still strong.

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 12):
Some days in the winter it did very well, others it did not..But I think it should operate at least 4-5 days per week in the winter.

I worked it the first two years it ran year-round, and the loads were horrid. You just don't have the tourist traffic in the winter, for obvious reasons, that you have in the summer. Even EWR and IAH cut back on their LGW routes last winter. I think 4 to 5 days in the winter is too many. I think to maximize loads in the winter, you should have no more than 2 or 3 a week CLE-LGW.

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 15):
So what's stopping them?

Again, the history of horrible loads the first two winters the flight ran year-round. It just didn't make sense to run CLE-LGW with 60 people a day.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
gte439u
Posts: 330
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:49 am

RE: CO Loads On CLE-LGW

Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:58 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 23):
I think to maximize loads in the winter, you should have no more than 2 or 3 a week CLE-LGW.

Although, I am Clevelander now, and would love to see year-round European service from Hopkins, 2-3 flights per week are not a frequency that would make sense to London. Passengers demand more frequent service to such cities, and few would switch their business to CO based only on 2 nonstops per week. CO can easily route passengers though EWR, and allocate the 752 to another, more profitable market.

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