liedetectors
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A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:53 am

Hey Sports fans

A buddy of mine who works at Boeing sent me some Airbus pics showing extensive Main landing gear damage to the A380 during a taxi test. Lets not turn this into an A vs B.








If it was said by us, then it must be true.
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:56 am

I'm amazed they didn't blow!
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
redflyer
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:57 am

Quoting Liedetectors (Thread starter):
Lets not turn this into an A vs B.

Why not? I think just by the mere fact we log onto A.Net we all love a good (but clean) debate. Besides, when has a topic like this not turned into an A v. B forum?

On to the topic at hand, I can tell you some know-it-alls (no names mentioned but we all know who they are) will want to know what the circumstances were for the damage. And you can add me to those who want to know. By way of example, did the damage occur during a test that took the a/c outside of it's designed performance parameters??
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
liedetectors
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:01 pm

Results of landing gear abuse tests. Tug was used and a/c steering system was shut off to prevent gears from steering. Plane was then tugged into a 90 degree turn. Tires and possibly wheels were damaged, but the gears didnt snap or fold in. Test was successful.
If it was said by us, then it must be true.
 
fumanchewd
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:07 pm

This was actually initiated by Ferrari for refusing to allow a change to the taxi-way causing a second Michelin controversy. Wink
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:09 pm

I find that amazing. That's a tough airplane!

Watching it must have been something to see and hear. Like fingernails on a chalkboard.

Mark
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baylorairbear
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:16 pm

Extensive?

So the tug pulled the plane sideways? Can someone paint me a better picture? Thanks for the pics Liedetectors.

Thanks,
BaylorAirBear
I'm just skipping stones...
 
liedetectors
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:20 pm

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 4):
This was actually initiated by Ferrari for refusing to allow a change to the taxi-way causing a second Michelin controversy.

Not funny, and way off topic.
If it was said by us, then it must be true.
 
redflyer
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:32 pm

Liedetectors: I'll be damned! After 7 posts and not a single "the 380 is doomed to failure" comment. My, my, how A.Net has become so civil! I don't know if I should be sad or elated.

Another question: what are the requirements for the test to be deemed "successful"? Does she have to withstand such stresses without any damage whatsoever? Or are they looking to make sure the landing gear posts remain intact even if the tires did blow (which obviously they didn't)?
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
liedetectors
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:41 pm

I'd go with sad-the al.net crew is letting me down with no the world is going to end scenarios.

To answer your question, for the tests to be successful, the gear must withstand such scenarios 1) without entering the material region of plastic deformation and 2) without any cracks being formed. Checking for cracks is done either with a penetrant test or ultrasonically (preferred).
If it was said by us, then it must be true.
 
C133
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:42 pm

Quoting Liedetectors (Reply 3):
Results of landing gear abuse tests. Tug was used and a/c steering system was shut off to prevent gears from steering

Does the A380 have steerable main gear or not? I got the same email and I think the text said it does not. Was steerable gear disabled for the test or is it not there? Does anyone know?
Fine: Tax for doing wrong. Tax: Fine for doing well.
 
liedetectors
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:48 pm

A LIE HAS BEEN DETECTED! The rear axle of the main gear is steerable, but the steering system was in fact not active during this test. This is the same as can be found on the 777. A-380 wing gears are not steerable to the best of my knowledge.
If it was said by us, then it must be true.
 
kdeg00
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:54 pm

Quoting Liedetectors (Reply 7):
Not funny, and way off topic.

Well, way off topic but actually funny.

Backing up, is the landing gear test to determine what would happen in case of a steering failure during landing/takeoff or to determine the effect of a steering loss during taxi necessitating quick removal from the taxiway or active ?
 
liedetectors
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:05 pm

Mainly to detect if incompetent and/or hurried tug operations can cause structural damage to the aircraft and/or the landing gear. The effect of losing the rear-axle steering should result in only tire scrubbing during taxi, which is acceptable unlike structural damage.
If it was said by us, then it must be true.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:10 pm

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 1):
I'm amazed they didn't blow!

The Thermal Fuseplugs cause a deflation.

Amazing LG.Not much damage encountered. bigthumbsup 
Any Video link of the test.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
norcal
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:22 pm

Where they spinning doughnuts in the parking lot?
 
TGV
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:36 pm

Quoting Liedetectors (Reply 13):
Mainly to detect if incompetent and/or hurried tug operations can cause structural damage to the aircraft and/or the landing gear.

Like what is described in the following post ?
NWA 747 Breaks Main Gear (by Hammer Jul 21 2005 in Civil Aviation)
Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans
 
blue787
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:01 pm

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 4):
This was actually initiated by Ferrari for refusing to allow a change to the taxi

What has Airbus got to do with Ferrari???Stick to the subject matter.
 
macc
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:07 pm

question:

in the 2nd pic - when you watch the skidmarks, is that bitumen folding up?
I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
 
jush
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:13 pm

Quoting Macc (Reply 18):
question:

in the 2nd pic - when you watch the skidmarks, is that bitumen folding up?

Was thinking the same thing. I reckon it is cause it doesn't look like rubber. And the tyre looks normal not very worn. If it's rubber you should see the missing parts from the tyre. But on the other hand you can't really see where that tarmac should come from. It doesn't look folded up way down.
So maybe some specialist will shed some light on it..

Cheers
There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
 
pawsleykat
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:12 pm

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 8):
and not a single "the 380 is doomed to failure" comment.

But why should the A380 be doomed to failure and not success?
And again, this is rich coming from me as 4 months ago I hated the bloody thing!
When you see the A380 from upclose - I believe - it's really cool. Seeing it with your own eyes and not those of a cameraman, you can understand the technology that goes into these planes and in a way you want it to be a success.
God, that was a great day at Toulouse. 27-4-2005.  bigthumbsup   eyepopping 
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Starlionblue
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:35 pm

Quoting BaylorAirBear (Reply 6):
So the tug pulled the plane sideways? Can someone paint me a better picture?



Quoting C133 (Reply 10):
Does the A380 have steerable main gear or not?

IIRC, the wing gear and the last axle of each body gear is steerable. In a tight turn, the plane pivots around a point somewhere between the 4 main gear sets. If you turn off steering the wheels are forced sideways during a turn instead of following neatly. The rubber on the ground will of course resist this, resulting in damage.

Quoting Blue787 (Reply 17):
Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 4):
This was actually initiated by Ferrari for refusing to allow a change to the taxi

What has Airbus got to do with Ferrari???Stick to the subject matter.

I thought it was pretty funny. But I guess you have to follow Formula One to get the joke.


ËDIT: for clarity.

[Edited 2005-07-21 13:50:23]
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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Francoflier
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:05 pm

I'm terribly sorry about my untrained eyes, but I don't see any sign of damage from any of those pictures (apart from apparent damage inflicted to the asphalt...)

Tires bent as they were supposed to, they're rubber, but if you place the a/c correctly on the ground again, i.e. remove the loads from the tires, they'll go back to their original shape, and I got 10 bucks that say they'll even be airworthy again...

Now the only damage that could be found is invisible damage such as cracks in the gear metal structure, but like that, from the pictures, it all looks good!
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
gearup
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:36 pm

This sort of test sure makes a mess of the tarmac. Given that the scrubbing tire dug into the asphalt and the tires were so deformed, I imagine the pull on the nose gear to turn the aircraft must have been significant. Must have used a powerful tug!

GU
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flybyguy
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:51 pm

Quoting Gearup (Reply 23):
This sort of test sure makes a mess of the tarmac. Given that the scrubbing tire dug into the asphalt and the tires were so deformed, I imagine the pull on the nose gear to turn the aircraft must have been significant. Must have used a powerful tug!

The "pull" of the tug has nothing to do with it really it's just that the main gear are offset (underwing gear mostly in front of belly gear)


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © André Costa - Lisbon Spotters



Turning this plane 90-degrees has the same effect on the main gear as turning a car (90-degrees for instance) on all four wheels around the transmission not a pretty sight unless all your wheels can steer.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
EuroBonus
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:53 pm

Just wondered how big are the tyres exactly? More than 2 metres high? Would be great to be able to compare to other tyres.
 
norcal
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:06 am

That is amazing that those tires stood up to that. I think the only thing that failed this test was the asphalt.
 
harry
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:06 am

coool....nice photos  Smile
thanks for the updates
Harry
 
c680
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:52 am

Quoting Harry (Reply 27):
coool....nice photos
thanks for the updates

Having been around a tire that exploded due to over inflation, I was thinking that whoever took those photos was either a little nuts, or had no idea of the danger. This is why the MX guys make the $$$ that they do.
My happy place is FL470 - what's yours?
 
PKK
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:21 am

Quoting Liedetectors (Thread starter):
A buddy of mine who works at Boeing sent me some Airbus pics showing extensive Main landing gear damage to the A380 during a taxi test. Lets not turn this into an A vs B.

?????

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2221726/
 
cpsarras
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:42 am

Quoting Macc (Reply 18):
question:

in the 2nd pic - when you watch the skidmarks, is that bitumen folding up?

What is bitumen?

cp
- To Fly Is To Be Free -
 
boeingfever777
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:21 am

Quoting Liedetectors (Thread starter):
A buddy of mine who works at Boeing sent me some Airbus pics showing extensive Main landing gear damage to the A380 during a taxi test.

I understand the test and the results of it... my question is:

How does a person from Boeing get ahold of Airbus testing pictures?

Aren't results of tests confidental to the company running them only?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
bigsmile
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:29 am

Quoting Liedetectors (Thread starter):
A buddy of mine who works at Boeing sent me some Airbus pics showing extensive Main landing gear damage to the A380 during a taxi test.

What Damage would that be?????????
All that you have is a deformed tyre.

If you saw a slow motion picture of an under carriage on landing it would scare you witless at all the twisting and bending that goes on.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:37 am

Quoting Cpsarras (Reply 30):
bitumen?

Asphalt, tarmac, macadam, you name it.

What comes to my mind is: if the surface of the taxiway (or wherever they did this) can be damaged this badly, how high is the wheel load? We know the weight of the plane, the number of wheels, just not the wheel surface area but I'm sure someone knows that data. If 777 wheel load is higher, then a 777 should be able to dig itself in even more. Fascinating.
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
AMSSFO
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:49 am

Great pics, although I do not see any damage just flexible tyres. Impressive, but nothing to worry about.

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 31):
How does a person from Boeing get ahold of Airbus testing pictures?

He likely got it from a well-known aviation forum....
read this http://money.excite.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_...d=dji-00081820050715&date=20050715
it states: Photographs were posted on an aviation Web site late Thursday purportedly showing a badly deformed A380 tire and heavy skidding on the tarmac. The Airbus spokesman confirmed the tests took place about two weeks ago.

And read this thread to discover which web site it was....
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2221726/

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 8):
After 7 posts and not a single "the 380 is doomed to failure" comment. My, my, how A.Net has become so civil!

See the thread-link above....'they' have already bashed it....
 
TheCheese
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:59 am

What comes to my mind is: if the surface of the taxiway (or wherever they did this) can be damaged this badly, how high is the wheel load? We know the weight of the plane, the number of wheels, just not the wheel surface area but I'm sure someone knows that data. If 777 wheel load is higher, then a 777 should be able to dig itself in even more. Fascinating.

My opinion would be that some of the residue in the photos is from the surface, some of it is melted rubber from the tires having to disperse so much heat energy from the load they're under while overcoming their own friction from moving in a way they aren't designed to move.
 
Jamie757
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:01 am

Quoting Bigsmile (Reply 32):
If you saw a slow motion picture of an under carriage on landing it would scare you witless at all the twisting and bending that goes on.

I would be very interested to see this....

Rgds.
"I feel like a turkey who's just caught Bernard Matthews grinning at him!"
 
liedetectors
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:09 am

Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 34):
Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 31):
How does a person from Boeing get ahold of Airbus testing pictures?

He likely got it from a well-known aviation forum....

A LIE HAS BEEN DETECTED! Normally I would not honor this statement with a response, but to clear things up, because rumors are rampantly snowballed here, a coworker sent these pics to me as stated at the beginning (but I am not one to repeat things...)

Quoting C133 (Reply 10):
I got the same email and I think the text said it does not.

Anyone who is anyone at Boeing probably got this email, I am sure C133 can back me up on this. I see you are an outsider BoeingFever777.

[Edited 2005-07-22 01:12:05]

[Edited 2005-07-22 01:12:59]
If it was said by us, then it must be true.
 
liedetectors
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:25 am

Bitumen is synonymous with rubber or other hydrocarbon mixtures. The tarmac wasn't damaged, what is visible is mostly rubber rubbed onto the tarmac. My bad for not clarifying that the extensive damage was to merely the tires and not the landing gear trucks, trunions, or supports. I thought that would be visibly obvious to all here, but apparently not. Thanks for the compliment on the pics Harry!
If it was said by us, then it must be true.
 
kappel
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:28 am

Quoting EuroBonus (Reply 25):
Just wondered how big are the tyres exactly? More than 2 metres high? Would be great to be able to compare to other tyres.

Nah, not that high. There are pictures of the a380 under construction with people standing next to the wheels. I would guess about 1,20 m. high. Anybody know this exactly?

Quoting NorCal (Reply 15):
Where they spinning doughnuts in the parking lot?

LOL, now THAT would have been a sight i would love to see!!!
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boeingfever777
Posts: 1990
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:33 am

Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 34):
He likely got it from a well-known aviation forum....
read this http://money.excite.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_...d=dji-00081820050715&date=20050715
it states: Photographs were posted on an aviation Web site late Thursday purportedly showing a badly deformed A380 tire and heavy skidding on the tarmac. The Airbus spokesman confirmed the tests took place about two weeks ago.

There is nothing there.

Quoting Liedetectors (Reply 37):
A LIE HAS BEEN DETECTED! Normally I would not honor this statement with a response, but to clear things up, because rumors are rampantly snowballed here, a coworker sent these pics to me as stated at the beginning (but I am not one to repeat things...)

How as lie been detected? I asked how ppl at Boeing have access to Airbus test info?

Quoting Liedetectors (Reply 37):
Anyone who is anyone at Boeing probably got this email, I am sure C133 can back me up on this. I see you are an outsider BoeingFever777.

C133? I'm an outsider what does that have to do with me asking the question?
This is not like Brian Patrick Regan selling secrets to the Chinese. I just find it weird that "Boeing employees" have access to Airbus testing info and pictures.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
AMSSFO
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:56 am

Quoting Liedetectors (Reply 37):

A LIE HAS BEEN DETECTED! Normally I would not honor this statement with a response, but to clear things up, because rumors are rampantly snowballed here, a coworker sent these pics to me as stated at the beginning (but I am not one to repeat things...)

I did not intend to accuse you or your buddy or anyone else of illegal activities. If interpreted that way, I am sorry. I just wanted to make clear to Boeingfever777 that if anyone including Boeing people was clever enough to save the images when they appeared on a.net last week before that thread was deleted, he or she would be perfectly able to send them around to anyone else. BTW, I an surprised that this thread is still alive.

Quoting Boeingfever777 (Reply 40):
How as lie been detected? I asked how ppl at Boeing have access to Airbus test info?

As explained above, Boeing people only needed access to a.net....they did not necessarily need access to Airbus tests, although I do not know who has posted the pictures at the first place.
 
baylorairbear
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:16 am

Quoting Liedetectors (Reply 38):
I thought that would be visibly obvious to all here, but apparently not.

All hail Liedetectors, great and powerful bullshit artist.
I'm just skipping stones...
 
boeingfever777
Posts: 1990
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:34 am

Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 41):
As explained above, Boeing people only needed access to a.net....they did not necessarily need access to Airbus tests, although I do not know who has posted the pictures at the first place.

Ok that's great I was out of town and do not live on a.net and was unaware the pics were ever posted. However that still does not answer my question!

Quoting Liedetectors (Thread starter):
A buddy of mine who works at Boeing sent me some Airbus pics showing extensive Main landing gear damage to the A380 during a taxi test.

All I wanted to know is why he would make a bold statement that he received them from someone that works for the competition.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
cpsarras
Posts: 62
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:49 pm

Quoting Liedetectors (Reply 38):
The tarmac wasn't damaged, what is visible is mostly rubber rubbed onto the tarmac.

I beg to differ, in pic no 2, that is mostly asphalt ground up, not just rubber. both outside tires dug in a bit, scraping the tarmac top. The inside tires just left rubber, as most likely got hotter quicker so they were autodeflated (hence the deformity), leaving more pressure on the outside pair to damage the tarmac. You can also see the ground-up tarmac in pic No 4 on the left of the rightmost tire. This is the same landing gear set BTW (starboard wing) as in pic no 2 but from the backside.

And taking an educated guess from the track direction, they pushed the plane from right to left while also pushing to the rear.

cp
- To Fly Is To Be Free -
 
liedetectors
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:57 pm

Quoting BaylorAirBear (Reply 42):
All hail Liedetectors, great and powerful bullshit artist.

I would ask you to tell me what I said was BS, but I dont want to get off topic.
If it was said by us, then it must be true.
 
liedetectors
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:01 pm

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 43):
All I wanted to know is why he would make a bold statement that he received them from someone that works for the competition.

The pictures are clearly from Airbus, and my buddy works for Boeing who got them. Who cares where they came from. I just thought I would post some cool pictures, thanks for ruining a good thing. You are off topic, lets let it go man.
If it was said by us, then it must be true.
 
knoxibus
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:32 pm

We got these pics here in Airbus straight after they were taken, and as you guessed the tests were ok.

Imagine one of us (just an example) has a buddy working for Labinal (huge aircraft wiring maker here in Toulouse). They will do all the wiring work on the 787, therefore they have some colleagues in Seattle, @ Boeing, right now for its development.

They send the pics to them, and then it arrives in the mail box of some Boeing employees, etc, etc...and that won't take more than one day.

How difficult is it to understand that?

And the pics are on Airbus' A380 navigator site anyway, there no secret hidden here, relax people.

Oh and the tarmac did get some fair damage...
No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
 
redflyer
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:08 pm

Quoting Knoxibus (Reply 47):
And the pics are on Airbus' A380 navigator site anyway, there no secret hidden here, relax people.

Thanks, Knoxibus, for putting some perspective back in this thread, especially since it's coming from a dedicated A employee such as yourself.

Some of the folks on A.Net really need to get a life.
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
boeingfever777
Posts: 1990
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RE: A380 Main Landing Gear

Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:26 pm

Quoting Liedetectors (Thread starter):
A buddy of mine who works at Boeing sent me some Airbus pics showing extensive Main landing gear damage to the A380 during a taxi test.

There is no extensive landing gear damage. Personally I think your trying to bash Airbus and there product by lieing about landing gear damage.

Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 41):
I just wanted to make clear to Boeingfever777 that if anyone including Boeing people was clever enough to save the images when they appeared on a.net last week before that thread was deleted,

Also stated was the post was deleted earlier in the week, mmm...wonder why?
Maybe copyrighted materials that were stolen somehow would be my guess.

https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/xythoswfs/webui/kabureck/lies

This is the only place I could find the pics not on some aviation board.

Personally I think your full of shit and your the liar/fake trying to get attention drawn to yourself. In some post you act as if you work for Boeing... doubtful and others gulfstream and/or you state you have a friend working at either.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.