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chrisnh
Posts: 3435
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:09 am

Here at MHT we're losing MD-88 capacity in exchange for 737-200s. Besides a cut in the number of seats, the 737-200s are less fuel-efficient than the MD-88s, right? I'm just wondering with all the talk about spiraling fuel prices, why a carrier like Delta is still flying 737-200s while parking other supposedly more fuel-efficient planes in the desert. And of course the same holds true for Northwest's DC-9s. My conclusion is that even though these are old planes, they aren't any less efficient than newer planes. Or am I wrong? If a 737-200 needs the same amount of fuel to fly, say, MHT-CVG, as an MD-88...and the MD-88 has a bunch more seats, is that efficient?

Chris in NH
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
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RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:15 am

The majority of them are leased, and even if DL wanted, they couldn't just drop the leases. Even ending those leases early is not a good solution, as this means some one-time charges that DL has to pay, which can also be quite costly. Not to mention that DL can't just easily replace some 50 100-seaters with other planes within a short time. Of course, DL could reduce flights, but that would put them at a competitive disadvantage.
 
KLMA330
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Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:03 am

I work by Pearson int'l, and was out walking for lunch the other day when a DL 732 took off... made me wonder the exact same thing.. it was LOUD, and there was a trail of BLACK smoke leaving the engines..

I guess they have their reasons, but YUCK!
 
FriendlySkies
Posts: 3540
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:57 pm

RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:05 am

No matter how much fuel costs, new airplanes cost more.  Wink
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:25 am

Quoting KLMA330 (Reply 2):
I work by Pearson int'l, and was out walking for lunch the other day when a DL 732 took off... made me wonder the exact same thing.. it was LOUD, and there was a trail of BLACK smoke leaving the engines..

I guess they have their reasons, but YUCK!

And that my friend is what AVIATION is about. Real metal, thunder down the runway, loud as F*CK engines!

Give me a 737-200 or DC-9 over an whiney A32X anyday!
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
Superfly
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RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:38 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 4):
Give me a 737-200 or DC-9 over an whiney A32X anyday!

DITTO!
Bring back the Concorde
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:43 am

Given a choice, DL would stop using the 732 at the first possible moment - although most of DL's 732s are not that old (some of DL's 732s are new than early build 733s), the 732 is not a great airliner when today's fuel prices are considered.

But, what are DL's alternatives? DL is not going to suddenly cut back its route system in the middle of the busy summer travel season. DL does not have aircraft available to replace the 732s at the moment. And, DL is not in the position to purchase or acquire new aircraft to replace the 732s. You probably know that DL posted another huge loss today.

The 732s will be phased out of DL's fleet in the near-term future - there is a already a date planned for the 732's retirement from the fleet but I cannot remember it, one of our DL experts probably know the exact timeframe. The type will not be directly replaced: the plan is to increase utilization of other types (especially the MD88s), cut some frequencies on some routes, and probably some segments will be picked up by regional operators.
 
727LOVER
Posts: 6805
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:52 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 4):
And that my friend is what AVIATION is about. Real metal, thunder down the runway, loud as F*CK engines!

Give me a 737-200 or DC-9 over an whiney A32X anyday!

Amen to that brother!!!!! Big grin

Add a loud bold 727 in there.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Corsair2
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2001 11:02 pm

RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:01 am

Maybe as soon as DL finish painting all their airplanes to the most current livery they will replace the older jets. Does Delta still have some widget paint scheme airplanes out there?
"We have clearance Clarence. Roger, Roger. What's our vector Victor?"
 
N1120A
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RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:09 am

Quoting ChrisNH (Thread starter):
the 737-200s are less fuel-efficient than the MD-88s, right

Per seat, yes, but trip costs I do believe are still lower

Quoting ChrisNH (Thread starter):
And of course the same holds true for Northwest's DC-9s.

DC-9s are not only rugged and light but they are quite efficient, even by today's standards. Also, it is a lot cheaper to fly paid for, fully depretiated DC-9s than order over 100 brand new E-Jets
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Trvlr
Posts: 4251
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2000 9:58 am

RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:32 am

Simply put, DL needs a 100-seat aircraft (or thereabouts), and the 737-200 is the only aircraft that can fill that requirement right now.

DL doesn't expect to keep them around forever, though.

Aaron G.
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 2452
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:05 am

They are leaving. We have a bunch of -200 and -300 sitting on the ramp in ATL waiting to go back to the lessors. They can't go all at once for a few reasons. First is the lease agreement. Also we can only do so many at a time due to all the work that is required to return them. each lessor has inspection requirements before they take them back. Finnally what will replace them? The plan was for Repulic to start flying with the EMB170, but it sounds like they are having problems.
 
727EMflyer
Posts: 538
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:22 am

RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:05 am

There is a lot more to operating costs than just fuel and lease payments. How about maintenance costs? Pilot training and availability? Landing fees? Capacity vs. loads? I don't know specifics, but there was talk a while back of DL eliminating a fleet type. Somewhere the math must justify keeping the 732 around a bit longer than the MD-88. (If they are retiring it and not just shuffling service around). Even though there is a generation gap the 732 should share some parts commonality with the 733 and 738, and pilots should be able to fly either type (or at least have a quicker training transition). I don't know weights, but is a 732 lighter than an MD-88? If so then it will have lower landing fees. Another thing to think about is loads. Are the -88's going out full the majority of the time? Are the loads close enough to a full 732 to justify the cost of fewer paying pax over the cost of more empty seats?
And a final thought, in case any of the aircraft in question are owned, which one is more likely to sell rather than sit in the desert?
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am

RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:48 am

I flew a DL 732 today SAT-ATL.

I sat in row 24, right next to the engine....it was LOUD.

I enjoyed it, however...
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
GQfluffy
Posts: 3072
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:54 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 4):
Real metal, thunder down the runway, loud as F*CK engines!



Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 7):
Amen to that brother!!!!!

Add a loud bold 727 in there.

Can I get another Amen?

Not to qoute a song or anything. That's one thing I love about working at BIL from time to time. Fedex flies 722's in and out everday. SAWEET!!!! hyper 

fluffy
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:29 pm

Quoting Corsair2 (Reply 8):
Does Delta still have some widget paint scheme airplanes out there?

Nope, they are all either the new wavy gravy scheme or the 97 Ron Allen scheme. No more widgets.  Sad



Otto
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2550
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:53 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 7):
Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 4):
And that my friend is what AVIATION is about. Real metal, thunder down the runway, loud as F*CK engines!

Give me a 737-200 or DC-9 over an whiney A32X anyday!

Amen to that brother!!!!!

Add a loud bold 727 in there.



Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 14):
Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 4):
Real metal, thunder down the runway, loud as F*CK engines!



Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 7):
Amen to that brother!!!!!

Add a loud bold 727 in there.

Can I get another Amen?

Not to qoute a song or anything. That's one thing I love about working at BIL from time to time. Fedex flies 722's in and out everday. SAWEET!!!!

fluffy

my kinda people!
 
vegasplanes
Posts: 656
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:22 pm

RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:20 pm

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 4):
And that my friend is what AVIATION is about. Real metal, thunder down the runway, loud as F*CK engines!

Give me a 737-200 or DC-9 over an whiney A32X anyday!

Don't forget the 727, DC-10, L1011.

They way it should be.
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:42 pm

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 15):

Nope, they are all either the new wavy gravy scheme or the 97 Ron Allen scheme. No more widgets.

Mainline, that is. Still 4 or 5 Skywest CR2's cranking around in the regional version of the widget scheme. The actual widget isn't there, but its close.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
Leon8828
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:36 pm

RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:58 pm

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 14):
Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 4):
Real metal, thunder down the runway, loud as F*CK engines!

Amen to the Belchfire ! !
 
jush
Posts: 1495
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:10 am

RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:15 pm

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 4):
And that my friend is what AVIATION is about. Real metal, thunder down the runway, loud as F*CK engines!

Give me a 737-200 or DC-9 over an whiney A32X anyday!

Way to go! sir!
And the black smoke is still not the worst part of exhaust it's just unburned carbon. A zillion times less dangerous than the NOx emissions you can't clearly see dudes... loves those rockets! I saw an Lanchile 732 in SCL....
That's what i call mother******* aviation!
There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
 
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United_fan
Posts: 6383
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RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:19 pm

I noticed DL replaced the 732 on the CVG-BUF run w/Comair  Sad . We don't even get 732's here in ROC unless Ryan comes in for a ACY charter.
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
citation501sp
Posts: 178
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:19 pm

RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:48 pm

Ah, it is a sight slowly disappearing. Nothing turns peoples heads on the ground than a jet thundering down the runway in on a humid day in the summer. If the windows rattle in the terminal even better. I was at MSP, and DTW last week, it was Heaven. DC-9s everywhere making smoke and thunder. Even a Gulfstream III, with the RR speys, made itself known.

Call me crazy but it just seems right, Bring back the F106s now there was some Fire and thunder!!!


501sp
Smoke and Thunder! Stage 2 FOREVER!!!
 
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chrisnh
Posts: 3435
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:53 pm

Too bad Delta doesn't fly B1 bombers  duck . That is THE loudest plane I've ever personally witnessed.

Chris in NH
 
Corsair2
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2001 11:02 pm

RE: With Fuel So High, Why Still DL 737-200s?

Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:08 pm

I would actually like to see DL bring back one their Convair 880's they got rid of long before I was born. That airplane looks like a real scream machine!!


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