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ERJ170
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AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:40 pm

Well, AA has changed RDU-LGW from a 777 to a 763 from 30OCT05 to 14DEC05. After that, it goes back to the 777. So at least we see where the 777 comes for for a little while for the DEL flight.
Aiming High and going far..
 
Sammyhostie
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:34 pm

They do that every year I think, so its not big news.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:35 pm

Quoting Sammyhostie (Reply 1):
They do that every year I think, so its not big news.

No, they don't. A 763 has not operated this route since April 2002.
a.
 
BAViscount
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:36 pm

Quoting Sammyhostie (Reply 1):
They do that every year I think, so its not big news.

MAH4546 is correct, when I flew that route in November 2003 it was definitely a 777. Although while I'm not familiar with actual dates, I know that when other family members have flown that route in the past it was on a 767.
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bhxdtw
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:57 pm

how does that RDU route do ?? is it a touristy flight ?? what are the J-loads like ?? anyone know ?? like my Obscure African Routes thread, I like the obscure routes.. and Ive always thought the RDU route was the most obscure US route to england...
 
N1120A
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:05 pm

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 4):
how does that RDU route do ?? is it a touristy flight ?? what are the J-loads like ?? anyone know ?? like my Obscure African Routes thread, I like the obscure routes.. and Ive always thought the RDU route was the most obscure US route to england...

RDU-LGW is subsidized by local pharma-giants in the Raleigh/Durham area to the point that the flight is guaranteed to breakeven every time it goes wheels up. It doesn't matter what aircraft AA uses, they just adjust the costs accordingly.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
bhxdtw
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:10 pm

re

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
RDU-LGW is subsidized by local pharma-giants in the Raleigh/Durham area to the point that the flight is guaranteed to breakeven every time it goes wheels up. It doesn't matter what aircraft AA uses, they just adjust the costs accordingly.

really ?? wow I didnt know that (obviously) .... so I guess AA must go out with a bunch load in Business class... is there any specific reason why LGW is used or is it just a slot issue ?
 
N1120A
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:13 pm

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 6):
is there any specific reason why LGW is used or is it just a slot issue ?

RDU is most definately not an LHR gateway, and certainly does not meet the PAX numbers to become one. Beyond that, it is doubtful that AA would use an LHR slot on a flight that does not need the cachet.

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 6):
so I guess AA must go out with a bunch load in Business class...

With these guys, it is probably more of an F-class thing. Also, it is not a matter of if the seat is filled, it is a matter of the costs of the flight being subsidized before a seat is sold
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
bhxdtw
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:18 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
With these guys, it is probably more of an F-class thing. Also, it is not a matter of if the seat is filled, it is a matter of the costs of the flight being subsidized before a seat is sold

hmm that makes sense as a plane could go out full in F and empty in Y and probably still make profit...
 
N1120A
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:20 pm

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 8):
hmm that makes sense as a plane could go out full in F and empty in Y and probably still make profit...

They can sell one single seat on the whole aircraft, Y/J/F or otherwise, or even a single parcel of cargo and still make a profit.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
BigGSFO
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:21 pm

So does anyone really know where the DEL 777's are coming from? Are the AA elves building a few in the back 40 at DFW out of discarded F100 and 727 scrap? Because unless they are taking delivery of more than the two (to be used for PVG) they will not have enough to operate the same peak schedule in 2006.

Or am I wrong?
 
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ERJ170
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:23 pm

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 8):
hmm that makes sense as a plane could go out full in F and empty in Y and probably still make profit...

The plane usually goes out b/w 60-90% full, depending on the time of year. So althought the flight is already paid for, the added passengers and added cargo from the Triangle area to the England area makes the flight mroe profitable...
Aiming High and going far..
 
N1120A
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:31 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 11):
The plane usually goes out b/w 60-90% full, depending on the time of year.

One of the main reasons for heavier loads is the fact that AA likes to route lower yield passengers through RDU
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
bhxdtw
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:34 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 11):

The plane usually goes out b/w 60-90% full, depending on the time of year. So althought the flight is already paid for, the added passengers and added cargo from the Triangle area to the England area makes the flight mroe profitable...

ok, I see... so really its one of AA's most profitable flights to run... just straying from the point briefly, do AA still run the STL-LGW route they aquired from TWA ??

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 10):
So does anyone really know where the DEL 777's are coming from? Are the AA elves building a few in the back 40 at DFW out of discarded F100 and 727 scrap?

just a thought if The AA elves are busy making a couple of 777's out back at DFW, I wish they'd hurry up and build an extra 767 to put back on the BHX-ORD route !!!!!!!! argh...I hate that drive to LHR !!
 
N1120A
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:41 pm

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 13):
do AA still run the STL-LGW route they aquired from TWA ??

No

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 13):
build an extra 767 to put back on the BHX-ORD route !!!!!!!!

Sorry to disappoint, but that was not due to lack of aircraft, rather the 763ER being too much aircraft

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 13):
so really its one of AA's most profitable flights to run...

Well, it certainly does not lose money
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
bhxdtw
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:43 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
orry to disappoint, but that was not due to lack of aircraft, rather the 763ER being too much aircraft

hmm... well build us an ETOPS 757 Then !!! hahaha... just give us something !!!... (this is the sound of a desperate frequent flyer to the midwest...haha)
 
MSYtristar
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:32 pm

I don't know if the schedules for December have been finalized yet. There's a remote chance that the flight could stay 763 past 12/14. Just keep an eye on those schedules around mid October or so.
 
Billy
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:30 pm

From what I have seen, RDU has some of the highest yield figures (almost treble the MAN-MIA, for example) but performs very badly on a P&L basis. The route is definately one of the weakest for AA into the UK. It was one of the strongest a few years ago but even the pharma pax are getting price-conscious.
 
donder10
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:42 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
Sorry to disappoint, but that was not due to lack of aircraft, rather the 763ER being too much aircraft

Both in terms of capacity and size-when the temperature went up at BHX cargo had to be left behind due to the short length of the runway.
 
bhxdtw
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:46 pm

Quoting Donder10 (Reply 18):
Both in terms of capacity and size-when the temperature went up at BHX cargo had to be left behind due to the short length of the runway.

really ?!?! man they gotta do something about that runway !! no wonder airlines choose MAN instead of BHX !!
 
NikonDFW
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:55 pm

Don't forget AA still does some military work with the 777's as well.
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:57 pm

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 4):
how does that RDU route do ?? is it a touristy flight ?? what are the J-loads like ?? anyone know ?? like my Obscure African Routes thread, I like the obscure routes.. and Ive always thought the RDU route was the most obscure US route to england

Also to note, this route came about when AA operated a substantial hub from RDU (I think it was around 250 flights/day) from the late 80's to mid 90's. They also operated RDU-Paris Orly non stop as well. The LGW route stayed after the hub was closed because of the aforemetnioned subsidies.
 
bhxdtw
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:58 pm

what military work do they do ??
Id have a shock if I saw an AA 777 pull up at Baghdad !!!  eyepopping 
 
jetBlue
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:09 am

Upon checking the schedules, I noticed the flight will not operate at all on November 24 RDU-LGW and back November 25 LGW-RDU. Why is that? Could it be they already have a charter scheduled that day?

jetBlue
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aa777flyer
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:32 am

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 22):
what military work do they do ??
Id have a shock if I saw an AA 777 pull up at Baghdad !!!

AA has been flying troops back and forth to the war in Iraq for since before it started. AA does not fly into Baghdad, they go into a neighboring country and drop the troops off there. AA will resume this service in the fall.
The TSA was created to make the post office look efficient!
 
tymnbalewne
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:38 am

Quoting JetBlue (Reply 23):
Upon checking the schedules, I noticed the flight will not operate at all on November 24 RDU-LGW and back November 25 LGW-RDU. Why is that? Could it be they already have a charter scheduled that day?

jetBlue

Is this a (USA) Thanksgiving Day cancellation?

C.
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aa777flyer
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:43 am

Quoting JetBlue (Reply 23):
Upon checking the schedules, I noticed the flight will not operate at all on November 24 RDU-LGW and back November 25 LGW-RDU. Why is that? Could it be they already have a charter scheduled that day?



Quoting TymnBalewne (Reply 25):
Is this a (USA) Thanksgiving Day cancellation?

Thats exactly what it is...save some turkey for me!
The TSA was created to make the post office look efficient!
 
NYCAAer
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:04 am

Our internal employee website states that AA is looking for another route where a 763 could be substituted for a 772 to start up the ORD-DEL service. With current scheduling needs, AA has 1 777 that can be freed up at ORD, but needs just one more to start DEL.

The STL-LGW route was transfered to DFW, to allow for 3 DFW-LGW flights on certain days of the week and for peak travel periods.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:07 am

Although this appears to be a short-term change, does a 763 have the same crew requirements as the 777? I wouldn't think so.. so what about the RDU based FA? will some temp be transferred to another station or will they just work domesticate runs?
Aiming High and going far..
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:15 am

Quoting TymnBalewne (Reply 25):
Quoting JetBlue (Reply 23):
Upon checking the schedules, I noticed the flight will not operate at all on November 24 RDU-LGW and back November 25 LGW-RDU. Why is that? Could it be they already have a charter scheduled that day?

jetBlue

Is this a (USA) Thanksgiving Day cancellation?

Airlines tweak their schedule on holidays.




 spin 
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aa777jr
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:40 am

Why is the RDU-LGW metal being changed only temporarily? I understand that GlaxoSmithKline is taking seats on the route, but if its not that full, use the 763 year round and free up the T7 for the ORD-DEL or ORD-PVG. Can anyone shed light on this?

I also didn't understand the reasoning for taking away the STL-LGW and bringing another daily DFW-LGW. Was AA just trying to eliminate STL ops?

Regards.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
Avianca
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:46 am

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 22):
what military work do they do ??
Id have a shock if I saw an AA 777 pull up at Baghdad !!!

transportation of the troops.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
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ERJ170
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:49 am

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 30):
Why is the RDU-LGW metal being changed only temporarily?

cargo capacity, high yield revenue, more profits, backup for other flights..
Aiming High and going far..
 
Avianca
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:53 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 32):
cargo capacity,

do you know by the way the cargoloads on the route?
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
aa777jr
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:54 am

ERJ170.

I thought the whole idea AA had in doing this was to free another T7 for the ORD-DEL service?

Thanks.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:00 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 33):
do you know by the way the cargoloads on the route?

I don't know.. but I think that it is usually a fully loaded cargo hold.. even if the passenger hold is only half full.

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 34):
I thought the whole idea AA had in doing this was to free another T7 for the ORD-DEL service?

True, but pulling the RDU flight is probably only a temp measure until another 777 can be found. Although it could come back as permanent, who knows. Perhaps their are other less revunue-earning 777 flight (low yield, high loads) which could get swapped out.
Aiming High and going far..
 
Avianca
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:06 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 35):
I don't know.. but I think that it is usually a fully loaded cargo hold.. even if the passenger hold is only half full.

hmm. it would itrest me alot. as i know aa has no regular truck service outside of gb to conect on the flight, and personal i can not imagine that the cargo hold is always so full. hmm
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
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ERJ170
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:16 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 36):
as i know aa has no regular truck service outside of gb to conect on the flight, and personal i can not imagine that the cargo hold is always so full. hmm

As I said, I THINK it is usually full. A lot of cargo goes out of RTP overseas and the AA flight is the main corridor. Mark (MAH4546) would probably know better than I.
Aiming High and going far..
 
bhxdtw
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:16 am

Quoting NYCAAer (Reply 27):
The STL-LGW route was transfered to DFW, to allow for 3 DFW-LGW flights on certain days of the week and for peak travel periods.

so did this STL route suddenly become unprofitable or was it just unwanted ?
 
aa777jr
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:53 am

I flew the STL-LGW flight before 9.11.01 and it was packed. I couldn't see them getting rid of the flight because of low yields, but I've been wrong before.  Smile

Regards.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
bhxdtw
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:56 am

It was a shame that AA dropped that route after the TW takeover.. what happened to TWA's other international routes from STL to europe.. I guess they all went too eh ?
 
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ERJ170
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:58 am

what was that route flown with?
Aiming High and going far..
 
bhxdtw
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:01 am

762.. I think and then AA kept it with a 762 until the pulled it..
 
MSYtristar
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:02 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 41):
what was that route flown with?

B767-300ER
 
aa777jr
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:15 am

I could have sworn I was on the 763 when I flew it. Missed my ORD-LHR flight on the 772, so I was routed STL-LGW to get to London on time. Major bummer missing a 772 flight.  Sad
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
bhxdtw
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:18 am

ok sorry I was wrong it was a 763...
dude.. routed off ORD-LHR onto STL-LGW... I would be more gutted that I was flying into LGW !!! eeek...
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:39 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):

One of the main reasons for heavier loads is the fact that AA likes to route lower yield passengers through RDU

Very true, especially from Miami.

Quoting NYCAAer (Reply 27):
Our internal employee website states that AA is looking for another route where a 763 could be substituted for a 772 to start up the ORD-DEL service. With current scheduling needs, AA has 1 777 that can be freed up at ORD, but needs just one more to start DEL.

For now, the plane is coming from MIA-EZE. Both daily MIA-EZE flights are 777s, and effective 30Oct05, the early MIA-EZE flight will be a 763. AA would perfer not to do this, because MIA-EZE is one their single highest yielding routes and has significant F demand, but they have no choice, because this frees up the two 777s they need for the route.

However, AA is going to try to use some clever scheduling to let MIA-EZE remain 2x 777s, so nothing is set in stone.
a.
 
sw733
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:54 am

Quoting NYCAAer (Reply 27):
With current scheduling needs, AA has 1 777 that can be freed up at ORD, but needs just one more to start DEL.

This is more of a question than a comment to free up a 777, because obviously AA knows what they're doing a lot more than me! But, how busy are the morning AA flights between ORD and LHR? That is, the one that leaves ORD around 9:30am getting into LHR that night, and the one that leaves LHR the next morning around 8:00am for ORD? I know it's mostly business, but is there any way this could be reduced (or any ORD - LHR routes) to a 763?
 
FlyPIJets
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:23 am

Is the routing for the 763 still DFW-LGW-RDU-LGW-DFW ?

(Ok, I know I am just being hardheaded in not being able to figure this out but..) How many a/c does that require?
Rex Kramer: Get that finger out of your ear! You don't know where that finger's been!
 
gilesdavies
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Changes

Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:23 am

Quoting Donder10 (Reply 18):
Both in terms of capacity and size-when the temperature went up at BHX cargo had to be left behind due to the short length of the runway.

I know were going slightly off the point here and Im no expert over the 763 performance and the runway length at BHX. But I am looking at this from a logical perspective...

When you consider ThomsonFly (Britannia) and MyTravel operate or use to operate their 763's to destinations a lot further than ORD from BHX like Florida, Goa, Mexico, Barbados and Cuba non stop, with over 360 pax on the flight and additional fuel, where American only accomodate 212 pax and less fuel. I highly doubt leaving cargo behind was due to the runway length.

Also AI and EK have no problems operating their 772's and 773's out of BHX to DXB and DEL, which are of a similar length flight, and the EK flights cary a lot of cargo!