Flying Belgian
Topic Author
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It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:32 pm

Hi guys,

I regret having to announce that but from what I've read on a popular aviation French forum spotting has become a risky hobby for our fellow French spotters. http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/kerozen/
Since 7/7 London attacks, French Authorities have reinforced security measures to a higher level (they call it the Vigipirate plan). Which means that all spotters seen by the French Military Police in CDG are ousted... I've even read that you CANNOT stand more than 5 minutes on the cycling path along the runways. I don't even talk about a very popular place like the // taxiways in front of the Sofitel Hotel...
A spotter even told me that for French Police taking pictures anywhere in airport perimeter is FORBIDDEN !!   
So in which world are we living ?? Why are they focusing on us ??   
I'm really sad because I spotted in CDG the day before the London attacks and we really had a lot of fun with many French, British and Swedish spotters being there as well.
Shall a letter/email be set to ADP ?

Regards and French spotters: keep faith !!   

FB.

[Edited 2005-07-24 10:33:01]
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
IwantaBBJ
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:04 pm

Yes, I also read all those kerozen-messages now for days... I really feel sorry for the locals. I myself will probably cancel my trip mid-august!

I don't see much use in sending a letter/email to the airport! I am certain they will not reply!

Mike
 
SQno1
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:09 pm

Intresting, I took many pictures of planes in terminal 1 and the building. See my trip report below.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/60957/
 
SWISSER
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:13 pm

This is sad...

Maybe we should send a message from A.net to ADP so in the future if this whole thing collapses and our hobby is in danger because of some silly rebels, so at least they could issue some sort of pass to fellow spotters...
What time is top of descent?
 
AOMlover
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:20 pm

Oh mon dieu ! That's sad, CDG is an awesome place for spotting ! I've spent so many hours in front of that Sofitel...I also feel sorry for Philippe Noret and all the spotters who've been posting gorgeous pictures taken at CDG on this website.
 
ba319-131
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:42 pm

Really? I spent the entire sunday there last week both inside the terminal near the TGV and on the roof also near the TGV. no problems at all.

If this is true it is very sad.
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Airplanepics
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:03 pm

I was there a few weeks ago after a visit to the airshow. Certainly had some graet locations. Shame the heat haze spoilt the photos though.
Simon - London-Aviation.com
 
UN_B732
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:14 pm

I'm shocked and appalled... Many French constantly criticise the Americans and now are confining the freedom of their own people.
Who wants to get a petition going? Do we have someone who knows French who can draft a letter to ADP?
What now?
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:50 pm

Well of course I didn't say there were new fences and new indications BUT when a patrol nears a group of spotters, there are absolutely no discussions possible... I'm wondering on which law basis you can prevent people from taking pictures on a public area !!! THIS IS NOT LEGAL !!
Even in China spotting is allowed !!

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
QANTASforever
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:56 pm

So much for Liberté.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
SATL382G
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:00 pm

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 7):
Many French constantly criticise the Americans and now are confining the freedom of their own people.

You're surprised?  Smile

Looking for clarification. The original post is a little vague -- Is it really official policy to forbid spotting or are the security agencies merely questioning spotters more often? Sorry I'm not a french speaker....

regards
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
'Longreach'
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:06 pm

I am not a spotter but I suggest that airliners.net admin produce something as a whole, rather than one or two people complaining.

In the letter/petition suggest an alternative. Name the spots which are the best and request one or two of them be void of these new rules for spotting purposes. Unfortunately its the world we live in, and they do have a job to do.
 
DeltaWings
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:31 pm

Im for all members on A.net, about 19272?, write a complaint letter to CDG. I think they would soon get the mesage, just imagine 19272 complaint messages..!

[Edited 2005-07-24 16:33:26]
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
newkai
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:38 pm

Fight the system! Let's see how many a.netters can get arrested! I suggest 40 of us show up at the same time in the same spot and start taking photos, then chain ourselves to something for effect!
 
newkai
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:41 pm

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 8):
THIS IS NOT LEGAL !!
Even in China spotting is allowed !!

There's always ways for authorities to get around laws using "emergency provisions."
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:36 am

Quoting Newkai (Reply 14):

There's always ways for authorities to get around laws using "emergency provisions."

Of course. What are you going to do, sue the government? Of course you can, but unless you have the money, time and energy for a protracted legal fight (which you are in now way sure of winning) it's alost cause.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
DeltaWings
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:42 am

But they cant stop you from spotting from the ETAP Hotel, come one. At least you can still do from there.
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
mhodgson
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:48 am

Another great loss, if true.

Spotting attracts tourists, and I reckon it boosts security, with all those additional eyes and ears keeping watch for free.
No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
 
Thomas_Jaeger
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:50 am

I don't think sending 5'000 letters to ADP will help at all. It is one of the worst run state enterprises I have ever heard of (I say that from both a passenger and airline perspective). They will ignore you as long as they possibly can. Newkai's idea seems more feasible, go there and bring some TV guys with you and see whether they leave you in peace. I would want to see them asking 300+ spotters (typical day at CDG during Air Show) to move on  Smile.
Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
 
cxsjr
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:23 am

Quoting Newkai (Reply 13):
Fight the system! Let's see how many a.netters can get arrested! I suggest 40 of us show up at the same time in the same spot and start taking photos, then chain ourselves to something for effect!

Probably not a good idea, given what happened the day before yesterday in Stockwell, South London - I know this was the British police but looks like nobody's taking any prisoners at the moment!
The world is a book, those who do not travel read only one page ....
 
Guy
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:27 am

How about setting up an "Airport Watch" program similar to the one in CYOW. They are mainly spotters who have gone through a police security check and simply report back to the security center about suspicious activities around the airport perimeter. They are not to intervene. Just observe and report.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:34 am

Quoting Cxsjr (Reply 19):

Probably not a good idea, given what happened the day before yesterday in Stockwell, South London - I know this was the British police but looks like nobody's taking any prisoners at the moment!

From reports, it seems the guy didn't follow police orders. Chaining yourself to a fence is a mite different.


This whole thing is silly. It's pretty easy to shoot down a plane with an shoulder launched AA missile from zillions of locations, many pretty far from airports. Prohibiting spotting from close to an airport is amazingly useless when it comes to bolstering security. If terrorists want data on aircraft, movements, etc all they have to do it get jobs at the airport, search the web, etc... Why expose themselves by sitting at the perimeter fence?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
grimey
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:35 am

There was a tread a while back where spotters are being used as security in MEL I wonder why they don't do that in other airports, put my name down on any letter of complaint because I was in CDG only once but I was like a child in a candy store with all the sights there.

Grimey
 
rev3oh2
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:24 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 21):
Prohibiting spotting from close to an airport is amazingly useless when it comes to bolstering security. If terrorists want data on aircraft, movements, etc all they have to do it get jobs at the airport, search the web, etc... Why expose themselves by sitting at the perimeter fence?

Very good points. At Charlotte Douglas International, our big US Airways hub, the most visible security measure taken post-9/11 was to take down all trees at the end of runway 18R, where the best public viewing area is located.

Not only did it expose any possible hiding places, but it also vastly improved the view of traffic on final approach.
...let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.
 
MD80Nut
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:32 am

I'm really sorry to hear spotting is forbidden at CDG. Sadly, I expect we will see more of that in other major airports around the world. I hope I'm wrong.  hissyfit 

Cheers, Ralph
Fly Douglas Jets DC-8 / DC-9 / DC-10 / MD80 / MD11 / MD90 / 717
 
ZRH
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:39 am

This is ridiculous. Simply again a most stupid overreaction which won't prevent any terrorist attack.
 
Gary2880
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:34 am

first ABZ.. then CDG... all the big airports are going under =(

granted not everywhere here but the best and most useful area
Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel :- Samuel Johnson
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:17 am

Quoting Grimey (Reply 22):
There was a tread a while back where spotters are being used as security in MEL I wonder why they don't do that in other airports,

....didn't IAH (at least temporarily experiement with) unofficially employing spotters to keep an eye on a certain spot?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
jacobin777
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:29 am

wow..@ SFO...they only prevented spotters going from certain locations, and added a security fence along part of the taxiiway to get to the 28's (as bad as it is, its not the entire lenght)..nothing that bad...and it would be rather difficult to stop spotting @ SFO as the airport is along BayShore Park, which they would have to be completely closed if they wanted to stop all viewing..ain't happenin'
"Up the Irons!"
 
SATL382G
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:32 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 21):
If terrorists want data on aircraft, movements, etc all they have to do it get jobs at the airport, search the web, etc... Why expose themselves by sitting at the perimeter fence?

Because it's the easiest and quickest way. If they get a job they have to go thru all the motions -- training, immigration checks, etc. Web use can be monitored.......
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
voodoo
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:38 am

What are the alternatives for those of us who plan, i.e. have tickets bought, for CDG in the near future?
Whats Orly like these days?
And, besides the Le Bourget Museum, what else, aviation-wise, is there around Paris?

[Edited 2005-07-24 21:42:19]
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
boysteve
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:53 am

Does CDG, or other airports have an official viewing area, such as the one at MAN. Surely this is a good idea as all spotters gather in one location, its busy so there would be hundreds of witnesses to any terrorist activities, and anyone who is moved on by the authorities from other areas of the perimeter fence cannot complain that there are no facilities for them. To my simple mind it seems a sensible compromise!
 
Udo
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:11 am

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 29):
Because it's the easiest and quickest way. If they get a job they have to go thru all the motions -- training, immigration checks, etc. Web use can be monitored.......

It's also the easiest and quickest way to be spotted by the police, so only totally stupid terrorists would stay for a while at those places. Web use monitored? When they check flight info? So you really think terrorists would sit around at an airport for hours rather than upload timetables via Internet?  ill 

We all learned on 9/11 that attackers don't need to work at an airport or don't need to know insider info for their strikes. And it's quite obvious the 9/11 terrorists did not hang around at airports in order to decide which aircraft type and which airline they hijack...  Yeah sure


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:24 am

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 29):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 21):
If terrorists want data on aircraft, movements, etc all they have to do it get jobs at the airport, search the web, etc... Why expose themselves by sitting at the perimeter fence?

Because it's the easiest and quickest way. If they get a job they have to go thru all the motions -- training, immigration checks, etc. Web use can be monitored.......

Point taken, but as Udo says spotters are hardly anonymous either. If you really want info on aircraft movements, get flight tracker software, a good pair of binoculars, and a room at an airport hotel with a view.


Spotting at the fence will not help terrorists since all the information they are gathering (barring the occasional reg number) is readily available from other sources.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
atmx2000
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:24 am

Quoting Udo (Reply 32):
And it's quite obvious the 9/11 terrorists did not hang around at airports in order to decide which aircraft type and which airline they hijack...

Well not exactly. They did hang around airports as they scoped out flights they were interested in hijacking by flying on those same flights.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
Kyril
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:41 am

What i did today worked.

I called a couple of friends that are lawyers...
Went to CDG and play my country's favorite sport: "to f*ck" this autorities.
I use the law the way it's meant to be, allways keeping in mind that cops have a binary brain (more than "yes" or "no" is too hard for them to understand), talking to them politely but firmly and you can spot as much as you want to !

Be sure to bring your ID's (ID, + passport + driving licence... the more you have...), let them search your bags, and change your spotting location every 5 minutes, (under vigipirate highest level there are "restricted areas" where you should not be steady for longer than 10 minutes).

Be sure of you, spotters are a plague for the cops cause they have to watch after you and they are just too lazy. But you have the right to spot for personnal purposes.

Say MERDE with smile and style!  Smile
This will be my advice!
 
SWISSER
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:52 am

Maybe the police has some difficulties between recognizing an EOS with a very nice lense and a Bazooka with those binary brains?
What time is top of descent?
 
Udo
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:56 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 34):
Well not exactly. They did hang around airports as they scoped out flights they were interested in hijacking by flying on those same flights.

So that would make all pax much more suspicious than those spotters hanging around at the fence.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
MissedApproach
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:07 am

Quoting Guy (Reply 20):
How about setting up an "Airport Watch" program similar to the one in CYOW

I think I heard of a program similar to that in the US somewhere, & it sounds like a good idea to me. Who could resist free labour?
Does anyone seriously think terrorists will use the exact same methods again, especially over a short period of time? I think using our own airliners as weapons is pretty much a lost cause now- most nations have shown (with fighter escorts) a willingness to shoot down wayward planes. The smarter countries are using onboard security. As long as the current level of security is maintained, I think they'll look elsewhere. Don't forget, they don't need mass casualties, they just need to instill a given level of fear in the general population.
Can you hear me now?
 
ManchesterMAN
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:20 am

Yet again airport authorities react in the wrong way to spotters/photographers. More airports should have the attitude of MAN and use spotters to fight terrorism and not treat them as suspects:

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Starlionblue
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:59 am

And that's the way it should be...
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
SATL382G
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:44 am

Quoting Udo (Reply 32):
And it's quite obvious the 9/11 terrorists did not hang around at airports in order to decide which aircraft type

Well actually they did but not in the manner you're thinking of....

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 33):
Point taken, but as Udo says spotters are hardly anonymous either. If you really want info on aircraft movements, get flight tracker software, a good pair of binoculars, and a room at an airport hotel with a view.


Spotting at the fence will not help terrorists since all the information they are gathering (barring the occasional reg number) is readily available from other sources.

You are thinking like a spotter. The guy who is on his jihad is not a spotter and doesn't necessarily know of these other sources..... There is a lot info that can be gathered from the fence that isn't available elsewhere... security patrol routine is but one.....

Unfortunately the various security services don't have the luxury of knowing if the next terrorist coming done the line is suave, sophisticated, and knowledgeable of aviation (like Atta & co.) or blundering idiots like Reid or the bomb maker whose bombs failed to detonate last week.
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
SpdBrdConcorde
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:43 pm

I think that the baboons in the white house must be twisting arms...
 
Stealthz
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:21 pm

And at SYD, a few folks at the Tower mound waiting for JQ logo jet(which landed on a different runway!!)... the "long arm of the law" (Aust. Protective Service)paid a visit.
What was the result? They drove around the area, smiled, waved and obviously comfortable that all was OK drove quietly away.
Which is as it should be!

Regards

Chris.

P.S.I do like that MAN idea tho
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
Udo
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:21 pm

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 43):
Well actually they did but not in the manner you're thinking of....

Then what did they do? How do you know?

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 43):
You are thinking like a spotter. The guy who is on his jihad is not a spotter and doesn't necessarily know of these other sources.....

These guys are smarter than many people think, including you.

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 43):
There is a lot info that can be gathered from the fence that isn't available elsewhere... security patrol routine is but one.....

Then security patrols should frequently change their "routine" or stick to anonymous cars as it happens at certain airports.
And which other info can be gathered from the fence?


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
DID747
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:56 pm

Hi, dear friends,

I remember when I was young in 1980. I'm from Normandy and at the time, I spent all my summer holiday time with my aunt and my uncle who live some KMS from CDG.
They did put me every mornings at a very nice place beetween the runway 1 and the terminal 1 exactly in the corner near the taxiway and near the radar station, very early in the morning, until 7 PM. In my bags: camera, binoculars and sandwiches and of course a chair to sit. It was realy holidays for an aviation fan, CDG was a great and modern airport .

I remember i spent some very nice days there and at the time, there were no problems with the police. Sometimes they came and they spoke with me without any problem.

The only time they came and they stayed for few minutes was every morning at 11AM because it was the concorde take-off time, so some dozens of persons came to see the plane. After that all was normal.

I know, in the following years the security become hard. Some years later, I worked at CDG 1 for 5 years and I remember it became very compliquely for fans.
Now, i live in Normandy, and I have to go to CDG sometimes to fly to the USA and I can tell you the airport is not the one I knew at the time...sad! I call it "le Blockaus"where we can't do anything.

So what can we do for the spotters now? I have some good friends at CDG mainly in the airlines but that's what they say; What can we do?

Best regards. DID747  Smile
Waimanalo
 
SATL382G
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:43 pm

Quoting Udo (Reply 44):
Then what did they do? How do you know?

Ahhh, ok kind of obvious here that that you do not know much about the subject. I'd suggest you do some reading on the training activities these fellows undertook

Quoting Udo (Reply 44):
Then security patrols should frequently change their "routine" or stick to anonymous cars as it happens at certain airports.

Then the fact that there has been a "routine change" would become another piece of info that could be obtained from the fence.

Quoting Udo (Reply 44):
And which other info can be gathered from the fence?

1. Who's on the airfield? At what times? for what purpose? What equipment do they carry? Do they have a vehicle? What is the color & make of vehicle?

2. What is the perimeter security? Are there blind spots? What is the response time?

...and many more. Use a little imagination. It's not at all difficult to come up with a lot of sensitive info from the fence....
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill
 
ca228
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RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:38 am

This is sad, but I think you will see this in all international airports in the near future, if not already. Regardless if there are any official announcements or policies, photography of aircrafts and airports will be very sensitive and any sight of cameras will cause alarm to security. I have enjoyed numerous interrogations over the last spotting trips.

Even before the London and Egypt incidents, I have had problems with spotting in otherwise "spotting-friendly" airports such as Sydney, Melbourne, and Vancouver. All over the airports security has increased immensely and even for stations that seem harmless, such as check-in areas for Aerolineas Argentinas and Air Canada in Syd (where there are 3 or 4 uniformed security agents at different corners of the check-in areas).

So I would suggest the best rule of thumb is to ask first before taking pictures of planes and airports.
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:01 am

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 46):
Ahhh, ok kind of obvious here that that you do not know much about the subject. I'd suggest you do some reading on the training activities these fellows undertook

They had training lessons in flying, but tell me one source which suggests they were hanging around at an airport fence.

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 46):
Then the fact that there has been a "routine change" would become another piece of info that could be obtained from the fence.

Well, if there were random changes in the patrol times then the terrorists wouldn't be able to estimate when changes happen.

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 46):
1. Who's on the airfield? At what times? for what purpose? What equipment do they carry? Do they have a vehicle? What is the color & make of vehicle?

What do you mean? Security? That's ridiculous. Terrorists could launch a stinger from almost everywhere close to an approach path. So just keeping the fence clean is nothing but pretending security.

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 46):
2. What is the perimeter security? Are there blind spots? What is the response time?

See above.

Quoting SATL382G (Reply 46):
...and many more. Use a little imagination. It's not at all difficult to come up with a lot of sensitive info from the fence....

No, use your imagination and tell us exactly what's really dangerous with people close to the fence.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
SATL382G
Posts: 2679
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 12:02 am

RE: It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!

Tue Jul 26, 2005 5:11 am

Quoting Udo (Reply 48):
but tell me one source which suggests they were hanging around at an airport fence.

I didn't say that and frankly neither did you... What you said and what I was responding to was:

And it's quite obvious the 9/11 terrorists did not hang around at airports in order to decide which aircraft type

It's quite obvious that they did hang around airports in order to learn aviation. Flying training, procedures (of all kinds), books and manuals, etc all available at the airport.

Quoting Udo (Reply 48):
Well, if there were random changes in the patrol times then the terrorists wouldn't be able to estimate when changes happen

Irrelevant to the discussion at hand. We were discussing if relevant info is available at the fence.

Quoting Udo (Reply 48):
What do you mean? Security? That's ridiculous. Terrorists could launch a stinger from almost everywhere close to an approach path. So just keeping the fence clean is nothing but pretending security.

If you think the only people on the airfield are security then you need to look again. Why do think they would use a stinger? And more importantly how would your local security forces know that stinger is the only threat? Should your local security forces only defend against one possible threat?

Quoting Udo (Reply 48):
No, use your imagination and tell us exactly what's really dangerous with people close to the fence.

You have already asked for more info and I gave it to you. You choose to ignore it so I see no point in giving you further info. Did I say the people close to the fence were dangerous? No I did not. I know it makes your weak position easier to defend when you try to choose my words for me, but please -- I know you have more on the ball than that.......
"There’s nothing quite as exhilarating as being shot at and missed" --Winston Churchill