goinv
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Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:16 pm

An obvious one springs to mind - Concorde.

But what other aircraft makes/types/models have been a flop and have had very few examples built - falling way below original forecasts?

I'm asking about ones that actually rolled off the production line - not just ones that reached the drawing board?
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aireuropeuk733
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:19 pm

What about the Dassault Mercure - this has to be worse than Concorde..?


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EDDM
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:20 pm

According to the Airbus website, the A318 has been ordered 77 times. I don't know about the forecasts here, but that's not much.
 
goinv
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:23 pm

Hi

I can't find any info the Dassault Mercure. Can anyone elaborate a little?

goinv
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gg190
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:29 pm

The Dassault Mercure only sold to one airline, Air Inter. I believe only 7 or 8 of them were built (that includes the prototype). So definately worse than the Concorde.

It lost out to the 737 because of it's very poor range, which also increased it's turnaround time. I think they stayed in service with Air Inter until the 90's

[Edited 2005-07-27 15:32:45]
 
philb
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:39 pm

There were 12 Mercures built. Only 1 DC4E was built. The design was too big and was reduced in size to become the DC4. The Aviation Traders Accountant only made it to one prototype.

The Avro Canada C-102 jetliner was only built in prototype form as it did not sell and the CV-990 was deemed a failure at 38 airframes purchased.
 
cornish
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:40 pm

how about the VFW614 - sold very few (maybe 6 or so).

Quoting EDDM (Reply 2):
According to the Airbus website, the A318 has been ordered 77 times. I don't know about the forecasts here, but that's not much.

no it isn't, but remember it is a derivative of the basic A320 family, whereas I think for this thread it is more about individual types of aircraft. Likwise the 737-600 has been a poor seller, but we can't of course think of the 737 as a failure.

The Mercure, VFW614, etc most definitely were failures.....
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FlyPIJets
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:42 pm

Go here for more info on the Mercure

The Mercure had a very short range. Looks like 12 were built. 2 prototypes and 10 deliveries to Air-Inter. The joke is that the Mercure had such a short range so that it would never leave France. 

How many DC-5's were there?

How many 737-100's?

[Edited 2005-07-27 15:44:47]

[Edited 2005-07-27 15:47:23]
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EDDM
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:48 pm

Quoting Philb (Reply 5):
The Aviation Traders Accountant only made it to one prototype.

They wanted to call the plane the "Accountant"? Boy, no wonder it failed.

@Cornish: Well put. I concur.
 
WINGS
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:51 pm

Well I would have to say that its the A340-8000, (A340-200X) as only one example was ever built.


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Toulouse
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:53 pm

I remember my one trip on the Mercure in which some nut openned the emergency exit before departing... causing a long delay to the flight!
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CV580Freak
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:02 pm

Many British built aircraft only had limited production runs such as the Trident, VC10,Vanguard and ATP
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philb
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:06 pm

19 VFW 614s built, 4 part built. DC5s, (from memory ) 6 built? - can't find the prod list at present.

737-100s are a sub type which were always meant as a first off run to fulfill an DLH spec and launch the type in a similar way to the B707-138 was a one off design for QANTAS.
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:23 pm

737-600 has sold very badly
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tepidhalibut
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:57 pm

How about the Short Belfast ?

Lovely looking aircraft (but then again, I like Series 2 Landrovers) and only 10 built.
 
HBIHLtoEZE
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:01 am

the spoose goose ???
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kaneporta1
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:04 am

What about the tu-144?
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DeltaRules
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:08 am

Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 7):
How many 737-100's?

IIRC, there were 30 built.

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DAL767400ER
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:19 am

Quoting HBIHLtoEZE (Reply 15):
the spoose goose ???

If you mean the Spruce Goose, I doubt it was really intended to be sold to airlines. It was more a part of the ego-trip of Howard Hughes, but nonetheless an amazing plane.
Also, the 767-400ER has sold very badly. Only 37 built, and one on order for the USAF, though that is dependant on the tanker order.
 
TR
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:19 am

This bird has also poor numbers


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FlyPIJets
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:02 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 18):
f you mean the Spruce Goose

H-4 Hercules, actually. It was never called the Spruce Goose.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 18):
It was more a part of the ego-trip of Howard Hughes,

No, it was a design requested by the U.S. War department for a super-transporter. And because of the War effort, materials were in short supply, Mr. Hughes was had to use wood to build the a/c. Thus a protracted development stage for the a/c, that and Hughes' last minute designing process.

Pretty amazing it ever flew, can you imagine designing and building something that big made primarily of wood, and then flying it!?!? No wonder Hughes hated the Spruce Goose nickname.

(OK, off my soapbox now  )

[Edited 2005-07-27 18:04:17]
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gaut
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:18 am

My vote to the Fairchild Dornier 728-100, the prototype was built but never flown.....


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WINGS
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:18 am

Quoting Kaneporta1 (Reply 16):
What about the tu-144?


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Does anyone know how many examples of the Tu-144 were actually built?

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PiedmontCowboy
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:18 am

Exactly 12 DC-5's were built. A couple went to the US Navy. I believe some also went to the Netherlands.
 
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:22 am

Let's not forget the 767-400 and the 757-300
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positiverate
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:27 am

The MD-11 definitely was a poor performer in the market...
 
FlyPIJets
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:31 am

Quoting Gaut (Reply 21):
Does anyone know how many examples of the Tu-144 were actually built?

According to the utmost reliable Wikipedia  Smile 16 airworthy 144's were built.

go here to read all about it

Quoting Philb (Reply 12):
737-100s are a sub type which were always meant as a first off run to fulfill an DLH spec and launch the type in a similar way to the B707-138 was a one off design for QANTAS.

I agree that to include any sub-type of the 737 really shouldn't be included in a aircraft "flops" thread. But I also didn't know that the -100 was just for LH.
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Luke
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:42 am

The 747SP wasn't exactly a huge success with only 44 delivered - Boeing expected to deliver 214. But the fact that these aircraft are so rare makes them more interesting for us of course.  spin 
 
flyman33178
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:47 am

i have to agree with Positiverate.
The MD-11 fell well short of market expectations due to range and fuel consumption issues....

although it has proven successful in the cargo martket....
 
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litz
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:15 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 18):
Also, the 767-400ER has sold very badly. Only 37 built, and one on order for the USAF, though that is dependant on the tanker order.

Don't forget, the 764 was only made to replace L1011s for CO and DL ... the fact that other airlines wanted a few copies was only a bonus for Boeing; they never really expected to make more than the inital DL/CO copies.

Had it been a normal production aircraft, with all the normal advertising, and such, it would probably have sold in larger numbers, but since Boeing hasn't really pushed it, what you see is what you have.

Incidentally, if you wanna order one, they're still taking orders ...  Smile

- litz
 
philb
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:30 am

PiedmontCowboy,

thanks for saving me a trip to the loft!! The aircraft delivered to the Netherlands were in fact delivered to what is now Indonesia and used by the East Indies division of KLM.

Again, without recourse to the loft, I recall that at least one of these ended up in Australia, some were destroyed by enemy action on the ground and one is believed to have fallen into japanese hands but there have always been conflicting stories on what exactly happened and when.
 
kaitak744
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:48 am

Well, in terms of money loss, I would say the Lockheed L1011 Tristar. Sold only 200 out of the needed 400 to over come productions costs.
 
SA006
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:53 am

Were there any MD-8X failures such as the MD-88 and MD-90 maybe?

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philb
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:54 am

249 L1011s sold, 250 built. A big disappointment but the RB-211 carbon fibre blade problems blighted the programme.. At one point it was thought the whole programme would be pulled.
 
DH106
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:54 am

As discussed recently in another thread - the Breda Zapatta BZ-308 was an Italian design making it's first flight a few years after WW2. Looking superficially like a Lockheed Connie - it had 5 bladed props turned by Bristol Centaurus radials.
Only one was built, and although the design looked promising, post war politics prevented it's production manufacture.
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howard500
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:55 am

How about the little 717, it didn't claim too many victories either, no?
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litz
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:17 am

Quoting Philb (Reply 33):
249 L1011s sold, 250 built. A big disappointment but the RB-211 carbon fibre blade problems blighted the programme.. At one point it was thought the whole programme would be pulled.

So what happened to L1011 #250, then? Or was that a never-to-fly prototype?

Quoting Howard500 (Reply 35):
How about the little 717, it didn't claim too many victories either, no?

717 hasn't been a stellar seller, but compared to examples noted in the thread that sold all of TEN copies, or other small numbers, it's done pretty well by comparison ...

Maybe we should just wait for Aitran to buy up all flyable examples, then we can rename it the MD-FL ...

- litz
 
irelayer
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:21 am

Quoting Howard500 (Reply 35):
How about the little 717, it didn't claim too many victories either, no?

Actually the 717 sold pretty well considering that it was last in the line of an orphaned aircraft family. AirTran and Midwest seem to like theirs.

-IR
 
petertenthije
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:31 am

Only 4 F60s where bought, all by the RNLAF. Another was at the production line but never finished due to Fokker's bankruptcy.

The VFW-614 was not very succesful either.
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gg190
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:31 am

Quoting PiedmontCowboy (Reply 23):
Exactly 12 DC-5's were built. A couple went to the US Navy. I believe some also went to the Netherlands.

KLM received 4 DC-5's (their original order), 7 DC-5's went to the US navy. 1 aircraft was the prototype.

Other great failures were the Bristol Brabazon (1 built) and the Saro Princess (3 built, only 1 flew)

[Edited 2005-07-27 20:35:18]
 
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N328KF
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:06 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 18):
Also, the 767-400ER has sold very badly. Only 37 built, and one on order for the USAF, though that is dependant on the tanker order.

Actually, the USAF tanker order (KC-767) would be based upon the 767-200. That could be as many as 100 units. However, USAF will order more 767-400ERs (for the E-10) than are currently in place. The estimate is somewhere around 50 examples. So would you consider selling 87 examples of what is essentially a derivative aircraft a failure? I also would not be surprised if the USAF version of the 767-200 had the cockpit from the E-10, so that they would have a common pilot pool.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:13 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 9):
Well I would have to say that its the A340-8000, (A340-200X) as only one example was ever built.

Not entirely true.

Only one was ever factory-built, yes.... but several A340-211s were later converted to A340-213X.




Also, surprised no one has mentioned the AN225, seeing as only 1.5 were ever built:

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irelayer
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:23 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 41):
Also, surprised no one has mentioned the AN225, seeing as only 1.5 were ever built:

I wouldn't consider it a failure, because it was a purpose-built freighter for carrying the Buran. It was bought and paid for in terms of development costs. In fact, I don't think it was even designed and built to be sold for a profit. So I wouldn't see it as a failure. It has its uses too. Several companies are interested in finishing the second one because it has found a market niche for outsized cargo carrying.

-IR
 
BBJII
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:34 am

Modern Day airliner:

The Avro RJX. MoU was signed with FlyBE, they built a few prototypes, tested them, then 2 days before mass production was due, they cancelled it.

They spent over £4million on roadshows/testing and trails, then cancelled the whole thing.
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PHLBOS
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:35 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 6):
Quoting EDDM (Reply 2):
According to the Airbus website, the A318 has been ordered 77 times. I don't know about the forecasts here, but that's not much.

no it isn't, but remember it is a derivative of the basic A320 family, whereas I think for this thread it is more about individual types of aircraft. Likwise the 737-600 has been a poor seller, but we can't of course think of the 737 as a failure.



Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 18):
Also, the 767-400ER has sold very badly. Only 37 built

As with the 737 line; while the 764 sold poorly, it is still considered a derivative of the 767 line.

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 37):
Quoting Howard500 (Reply 35):
How about the little 717, it didn't claim too many victories either, no?

Actually the 717 sold pretty well considering that it was last in the line of an orphaned aircraft family. AirTran and Midwest seem to like theirs.

The final 717 total will be 156 when production stops next summer. The original break-even production number was, I believe, to be 200. Had either TW survived or AA continued flying the ex-TW 717s; a production number of 200 would've been easily doable. Of course, other (mostly legacy) carriers replacing their 732s, DC-9s, and/or F-100s with rjs didn't exactly help the 717's mission or cause either.
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N328KF
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:36 am

My prediction for a future failure: Bombardier C-Series
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TradewindL1011
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:36 am

Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 26):
agree that to include any sub-type of the 737 really shouldn't be included in a aircraft "flops" thread. But I also didn't know that the -100 was just for LH.

Actually, the -100 was the initial design that Boeing pitched, LH placed the largest order, but other airlines like AV and SQ also purchased several examples. Alas, the type was too small for the overall market so Boeing stretched it by 6 feet per a request by UA (who subsequently launched the -200 series).


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gr8slvrflt
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:40 am

Only three examples of the Martin 130, made famous as the China Clipper, were built. Martin was hoping Pan American would order their improved variant but Pan Am instead went with the Boeing 314 (of which only twelve were built).
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
TomFoolery
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:47 am

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David L
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RE: Worst Performing Sales Of Aircraft Type?

Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:50 am

Quoting Philb (Reply 12):
737-100s are a sub type which were always meant as a first off run to fulfill an DLH spec and launch the type in a similar way to the B707-138 was a one off design for QANTAS

While Boeing were concentrating on the 747, they seriously considered abandoning the 737 due to slow sales. I agree that the 100 is just a sub-type of a hugely successful line, though.

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