TUNisia
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Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:19 am

GREEN BAY, Wis. -- A woman who was upset over being searched bodily at an airport was convicted Tuesday of assaulting a security screener by grabbing the federal officer's breasts.

A federal jury heard the case against retired teacher Phyllis Dintenfass, who also allegedly shoved the screener during the search at the Outagamie County Regional Airport in Appleton in September 2004.

Dintenfass, 62, faces up to a year in federal prison and $100,000 in fines. The judge set sentencing for Nov. 1.

On Monday, Transportation Security Administration screening supervisor Anita Gostisha testified that Dintenfass activated metal detectors at a checkpoint, and she heard Dintenfass say she thought the problem was bobby pins and barrettes in her hair.

Gostisha said she took the woman to another screening area, where she used a handheld wand. Gostisha said she was following protocol when she also performed a "limited pat-down search."

Gostisha said she was using the back of her hands to search the area underneath Dintenfass' breasts when the woman lashed out at her.

"She said `How would you like it if I did that to you?' and slammed me against the wall," Gostisha testified. "She came at me and grabbed my breasts and squeezed them."

Distenfass claimed she acted in self-defense.

"I said, 'What are you doing? No one's done that to me before,'" she said. "And she kept going ... for what felt like an interminably long time."

Dintenfass denied shoving Gostisha, but admitted putting her hands on the agent's breasts.

"I was mortified that I had done that," she said. "I was reacting to what felt like an absolute invasion of my body."

U.S. Attorney Steven Biskupic said TSA officers perform a vital service and are entitled to protection from assault.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2005/07/26/AR2005072601245_pf.html
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KLM685
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:12 am

OMG What's going on with the world?!?!?!?!?

But I really don't doubt about the women's overreaction about the TSA check. Many people do get frustrated with this kinds of checkups. Specially speaking about a 62 year old women being "checked" by someone younger, etc...

Then again, the TSA won people to get this attitude sometimes.

Alonsou
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GuyBetsy1
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:18 am

Yes. Notice it's about the US TSA again.... we certainly don't have this sort of invasion of privacy anywhere else in the world!
 
aa777jr
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:25 am

I thought TSA was in the trash can, when is the US Gov getting rid of them?

Regards.
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747400F
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:27 am

Hard to know what to think about this case. Two contradicting stories of the same "alleged" event. Should there not be vitnesses present at body-searches - for the sake of both parties?

TSA, police etc must earn their "customers" respect from the way they do their job - not just from what their job is.
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checkraiser
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:30 am

A witness would do no good. Cops don't rat cops out. A video camera would be the only credible witness.
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kykevin54
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:31 am

I know that security is important, but there are limits. A TSA screener put his hand down the front of my pants once and I instinctively jumped back. I didn't attack him, but I sure wasn't happy with him and let him know it. He told me he was checking my belt. I told him my belt was on the outside of my pants.

I feel sorry for this woman. She should've controlled herself better, but she felt violated, and human instinct just wants to protect itself when threatened. It's too bad that our paranoia has led to this kind of thing.
 
747400F
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:51 pm

Quoting Kykevin54 (Reply 6):
A TSA screener put his hand down the front of my pants

Did he find anything to his liking?  Yeah sure
All humans have the right to marry the one they love
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:19 pm

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 1):
OMG What's going on with the world?!?!?!?!?

But I really don't doubt about the women's overreaction about the TSA check. Many people do get frustrated with this kinds of checkups. Specially speaking about a 62 year old women being "checked" by someone younger, etc...

Then again, the TSA won people to get this attitude sometimes.

Alonsou

Rules are rules, & we must learn to live with them. This is just a little simple matter of not having respect for authority, maybe some more convictions will stop these assaults against the TSA.
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iakobos
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:12 pm

Quoting TUNisia (Thread starter):
she was using the back of her hands to search the area underneath Dintenfass' breasts

Do TSA staff have the proper training to practice speleology ?
Joke apart, it could be that the "volume" and "space" in question could indeed be a matter for concern for some screened pax, less or even none for others.
Any pics of Mrs Dintenfass ?
 
TriStar500
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:17 pm

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 8):
Rules are rules, & we must learn to live with them. This is just a little simple matter of not having respect for authority, maybe some more convictions will stop these assaults against the TSA.

Hey Cartman, how is it going in South Park nowadays?
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macc
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:24 pm

a teacher named dintenfass, thats dope!
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Toulouse
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:59 pm

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 8):
Rules are rules, & we must learn to live with them. This is just a little simple matter of not having respect for authority, maybe some more convictions will stop these assaults against the TSA.

Ah come on, and respect is respect. Now, the TSA agent was apparently just doing her job, but as many have indicated, the passenger maybe was shocked by such an intimate invasion of her privacy. A polite smile and kind explanation of the preocedures should take place (which may well have been the case here).

I left quite an eledrly woman off at TLS the other day, a 70 year-old Spanish woman who hasn't travelled alot. She beeped going through, and when she was stopped I saw her arms going up in self defence as she tried to back away from the French security agent. The agent simply smiled at her and asked for assisstance from another agent who spoke some Spanish to explain to her what was going on. In the end, they were all smiling and laughing together and seemed to have become best of friends.
So MidnightMike, in this case at TLS the rules were adhered to, but through mutual respect.

Obviously we don't know the in's and out's of the American case, so it's hard to know who was in the wrong. Admittidely, the 60 yr.old woman's reaction seems a bit much. But it must be taken into account that many people are not used to travelling, or are older or whatever...
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Starlionblue
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:17 pm

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 8):
Rules are rules, & we must learn to live with them. This is just a little simple matter of not having respect for authority, maybe some more convictions will stop these assaults against the TSA.

I agree with the need for security, but in my experience TSA agents are generally not very good at people skills. They do nothing to make the searched person feel more comfortable. If they did, as in the example from Toulouse below, their life and ours would be much easier.

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 12):

I left quite an eledrly woman off at TLS the other day, a 70 year-old Spanish woman who hasn't travelled alot. She beeped going through, and when she was stopped I saw her arms going up in self defence as she tried to back away from the French security agent. The agent simply smiled at her and asked for assisstance from another agent who spoke some Spanish to explain to her what was going on. In the end, they were all smiling and laughing together and seemed to have become best of friends.

It's the same in London. The body search is just as thorough as the TSA one, but I never feel violated. The agent politely informs me of what is going on. If a pax does not speak good English, the agent will mime or find someone who can translate. TSA agents tend to do the old American cliché. SPEAK LOUDLY AND CLEARLY. As if that helps someone whose English is bad or non-existent.

I realize searches are necessary, but the TSA agents generally often have a bad attitude so it's no surprise they get a bad rep. If they would just smile a little and stop acting impatient and grim I think things would improve immensely.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
cwapilot
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:05 pm

"Notice it's about the US TSA again.... we certainly don't have this sort of invasion of privacy anywhere else in the world!"

Give me a f*cking break! The only reason you are chiming in is because it happened to be a US TSA agent.

"If they did, as in the example from Toulouse below, their life and ours would be much easier."
Read: if this was done anywhere else in the world, we would not complain or even think twice, and we would certainly not blame the agent.

All a bunch of second and third hand anecdotal accounts are what form a.netter's opinions of TSA agents, pure garbage. Recently, at O'Hare, during a very busy peak time, I saw the same sort of thing, as mentioned by Toulouse, occur with a group of 5 Korean passengers. The agent called a Korean Air agent over to help translate. So, no, that sort of thing is NOT something unique to Europe or Canada.

TSA agents, as a group, do not deserve any top accolades for customer service, although some individuals may. They are not there to be chummy, they need only be civil. They are there to get people through the checkpoint as quickly as possible while giving as thorough a check as possible. If this cheesehead goofball did not know what to expect, she has had her head up her arse for the past several years. In this area, over the past several years, I have seen them improve leaps and bounds. They certainly do not deserve the bum rap they receive from people around here, and I am the last one to defend overpaid government employees. The fact remains, they have to be 100%, 100% of the time...some nutjob has to be able to get through ONCE at any of thousands of checkpoints throughout the country, crazy old ladies from Wisconsin aside. Compared to the "screeners" prior to TSA, it is much improved from what I have seen.
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Toulouse
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:16 pm

Cwapilot... be careful! I was not launching a personal "attack" against TSA agents just because this story was in the US. Read my post and you'll see that.

On a personal level, my worst ever experience with a TSA agent was at Dublin airport a few years back. Obviously, we are all humans, and some agent's will have better people skills than others, no matter we're they are or where there from.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
cwapilot
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:20 pm

Toulouse...obviously you were not....check a few of the posts above yours.
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jacobin777
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:19 am

on a lessor note, I had used a 'TSA-approved' lock..CLEARLY VISABLE that it was a TSA-approved lock, and with an imprint on the bottom for the TSA...yet, last week, they decided to break the lock open as opposed to just using the keys..jerkoffs......!

while I don't mind the TSA too much, they seriously need to get their house in order!!
"Up the Irons!"
 
HPnonrev99
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:19 am

Quoting Cwapilot (Reply 16):
Toulouse...obviously you were not....check a few of the posts above yours.

CWA you just confirmed what Toulouse was saying. Toulouse is not launching a personal attack agains the TSA, the previous posts to his might be, but he is not.

Quoting Cwapilot (Reply 14):
Give me a f*cking break! The only reason you are chiming in is because it happened to be a US TSA agent.

Actually I'm sure the reason he was "chiming in" was because thats what this post is about, a TSA agent.

Quoting Cwapilot (Reply 14):
If this cheesehead goofball did not know what to expect, she has had her head up her arse for the past several years

For somebody being as sensitive to Toulouse's comment , implying that this has been geographical discrimination, your use of "cheesehead" would idicate you are guilty of the same, (Cheeseheads are people from Wisconsin, the state 60 miles from Chicago) What if this woman has only flown a few times her entire life ? Not everybody flies all the time.

In short Cwapilot, don't demand respect from people if you aren't willing to give it.

Signed,

Just another hater of close-minded, arrogant, republican pilots.
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aerlingusa330
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:01 am

I'm not sure about you guys, but isn't a year in prison and $100,000 fine a little overkill for this? I mean, the teacher's actions were not to hurt the TSA agent, they were just in reaction to her actions. How would some of us feel if a TSA agent violated us, I know one time I felt extremely uncomfortable while they did a pat-down on/around my belt area. I can definitely see why this woman felt violated. Maybe she did over react IF she threw the woman, but still.

Steve
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ACDC8
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:20 am

TSA = Titty Squeezing Agency ....  laughing 

Seriously though, up to 1 year in prison and $100,000 fine? Come on, let's get back down to reality. I'm sure that the TSA agent did nothing wrong, and I'm sure that the pax overreacted, but it's not like she was trying to rape her or something.
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CDNpax
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:36 am

Quoting Cwapilot (Reply 14):
They are not there to be chummy, they need only be civil.

They have failed in even this small endeavour more times than not...

As has been mentioned in many other posts, the security screening in other airports is as thorough as the TSA screening. However, there are a significant number of passengers here who believe there is a big difference in attitude. I now make sure that I have no steel plate in my shoes, wear no jeans with rivets or a belt when I fly out of the US just to avoid as much contact as possible with them.

It also strikes me as very odd that there was not camera recording of the incident mentioned in the article as these areas of airports are particularly rife with them...
 
cwapilot
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:16 am

"In short Cwapilot, don't demand respect from people if you aren't willing to give it."
followed by: "Just another hater of close-minded, arrogant, republican pilots"

Pot...kettle...black...As for cheeseheads, yes, I am familiar with the term, the state and the people, having lived 60 miles, as you say, from Wisconsin my entire life. Cheesehead is a lot more mild and endearing than most of the nicknames they have for us flatlanders. I am sorry, but, yes, if there is any attitude problem attributable to geography in this case, that section of Wisconsin does have a unique flavor to it.

"Actually I'm sure the reason he was "chiming in" was because thats what this post is about, a TSA agent."
Baloney! Nowhere else in the world are people patted down or searched when they set of a metal detector? Nowhere else on earth are those who attack those responsible for conducting such searches locked up and/or fined?

"What if this woman has only flown a few times her entire life ? Not everybody flies all the time."

Has she watched the news for the past several years? Did she fail to notice all of the signs with instructions that are usually posted throughout the queues?

"They are not there to be chummy, they need only be civil.
They have failed in even this small endeavour more times than not...there are a significant number of passengers here who believe there is a big difference in attitude"

Having been through several international airports, I assure you, this "attitude" is not the exclusive domain of TSA agents. And, again, a handful of second and third hand accounts on a.net. Right back to my original point...it happens everywhere, and it seems to be a past time of people here to single out US agents because it is the thing to do.

If I had to go by my own anecdotal accounts, then I would say the worst agents have to be at Heathrow (rude, ignorant, certainly no more polite than TSA agents and just as intrusive...especially if you are traveling with someone on an Indonesian passport it turns out.) and Jakarta, where my wife was hauled into an interrogation room and lambasted for 30 minutes because she had become a US Permanent Resident (why are you coming back here if you don't want to live here anymore?! and the like). Should I, based on those experiences, attribute that to British and Indonesian security agents (whatever they call them) or just to the individuals with whom I crossed paths? While not as extreme, the French and Germans were not exactly friendly...if you want to go by the smile standard, they failed miserably.

"Come on, let's get back down to reality. I'm sure that the TSA agent did nothing wrong, and I'm sure that the pax overreacted, but it's not like she was trying to rape her or something."

Maybe next time stupid will think twice before attacking someone with a badge...plastic though it may be.
Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
 
ACDC8
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:20 am

Quoting Cwapilot (Reply 22):
Maybe next time stupid will think twice before attacking someone with a badge...plastic though it may be.

Just because a person who wears a badge deserves more respect then everyone else? Don't think so.

Yes, the TSA agent was just doing her job.
Yes, the pax may have over-reacted and been stupid.
Possible 1 year in prison and $100,000 fine? Pure BS!
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
DHLSAN
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:25 am

Maybe she was practicing to be a TSA Agent herself.
Yellow?
 
cwapilot
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:28 am

"Just because a person who wears a badge deserves more respect then everyone else? Don't think so.

Yes, the TSA agent was just doing her job.
Yes, the pax may have over-reacted and been stupid.
Possible 1 year in prison and $100,000 fine? Pure BS!"

It doesn't matter what you think of the person behind the badge...they are acting as a government official, and their position and authority are to be complied with. A cop pulling you over for speeding can be a real d*ck, and you could hate his guts, but try your "just because you have a badge" BS and see how far you get. You, at minimum, comply with instructions and you DON'T ATTACK THEM!

If they do something in the execution of their duty that is offensive, the proper reaction is not to attack them. Had she been a tourist in New York about now, and did something of the sort to those searching people at subway stations, she would have had her face in the concrete with a boot on the back of her neck to go with her $100,000 fine and year in prison. Stupidity has its price

And, think for a second here...unless there is some sort of aggravating circumstance, do you really think a judge will levy the maximum sentence?

[Edited 2005-07-28 19:29:51]
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747400F
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:47 am

Quoting Cwapilot (Reply 25):
If they do something in the execution of their duty that is offensive, the proper reaction is not to attack them.

What is the proper reaction then? just to let them get on with in? NO WAY - the facts that this TSA agent gives her no right to be offensive, she'll just have to learn better manners. The person might deserve respect - the job certainly doesn't.
All humans have the right to marry the one they love
 
ACDC8
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:07 am

Quoting Cwapilot (Reply 25):
It doesn't matter what you think of the person behind the badge...they are acting as a government official, and their position and authority are to be complied with. A cop pulling you over for speeding can be a real d*ck, and you could hate his guts, but try your "just because you have a badge" BS and see how far you get. You, at minimum, comply with instructions and you DON'T ATTACK THEM!

They deserve the respect that they give! Wearing a badge doesn't give anyone the right to do whatever they feel like doing. Perhaps if the TSA agent had warned the pax before hand that she was going to pat down her breasts. For all we know, the agent could have been some pervert getting off.

Quoting Cwapilot (Reply 25):
If they do something in the execution of their duty that is offensive, the proper reaction is not to attack them. Had she been a tourist in New York about now, and did something of the sort to those searching people at subway stations, she would have had her face in the concrete with a boot on the back of her neck to go with her $100,000 fine and year in prison. Stupidity has its price

I'm sure that most people with any common sense would hardly consider this an attack. It was simply an over reaction on the pax's behalf.

Quoting Cwapilot (Reply 25):
And, think for a second here...unless there is some sort of aggravating circumstance, do you really think a judge will levy the maximum sentence?

Of course the max sentence would probably not be given, but it shouldn't have even been suggested in the first place. Fact is, the pax felt violated and she had every right to. Fact is, she over reacted and did something she should not have done. Fact is, something as minor as this should not even have the courts involved.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Bre

Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:18 am

Quoting Cwapilot (Reply 14):
"Notice it's about the US TSA again.... we certainly don't have this sort of invasion of privacy anywhere else in the world!"

Give me a f*cking break! The only reason you are chiming in is because it happened to be a US TSA agent.

"If they did, as in the example from Toulouse below, their life and ours would be much easier."
Read: if this was done anywhere else in the world, we would not complain or even think twice, and we would certainly not blame the agent.

All a bunch of second and third hand anecdotal accounts are what form a.netter's opinions of TSA agents, pure garbage. Recently, at O'Hare, during a very busy peak time, I saw the same sort of thing, as mentioned by Toulouse, occur with a group of 5 Korean passengers. The agent called a Korean Air agent over to help translate. So, no, that sort of thing is NOT something unique to Europe or Canada.

I fly about twice a week in the US and Europe. While this may still not be a huge sample I must say I have detected a very clear trend. In Europe, with the same security consciousness, you get through security with much less hassle.

Sorry to say, yes it is about the TSA. Maybe if they paid a bit more and hired better people, or even trained their people better. It's just this whole "I'm here for security and therefore don't need to give a s**t" attitude they have. Incidentally, this is an attitude shared by many American flight attendants (replace "security" with "safety").

Note I didn't say all TSA agents are useless. Many of them are very nice. But some need to lighten up a little. Smiling and being a bit accomodating does not mean security need be less tight.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:31 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 13):
It's the same in London. The body search is just as thorough as the TSA one, but I never feel violated. The agent politely informs me of what is going on. If a pax does not speak good English, the agent will mime or find someone who can translate. TSA agents tend to do the old American cliché. SPEAK LOUDLY AND CLEARLY. As if that helps someone whose English is bad or non-existent.

Guess what, the TSA details everything they are doing as well.
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gipper913
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:31 am

Quoting Hpnonrev99 (Reply 18):
Just another hater of close-minded, arrogant, republican pilots.

That's real open-minded of you, Hpnonev99.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 27):
I'm sure that most people with any common sense would hardly consider this an attack. It was simply an over reaction on the pax's behalf.

Attack may be a subjective term - 9/11 was an attack, but is a shove, etc. However, as an attorney (insert joke about common-sense here) I must say the pax did assault the TSA officer. That is a crime.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 27):
Fact is, she over reacted and did something she should not have done. Fact is, something as minor as this should not even have the courts involved

I does appear she over-reacted and certainly did something she should not have done. I wouldn't go so far as to say it is a FACT that the courts should not be involved, but I tend to agree with your underlying point that this does, on the surface, appear to be a misuse of prosecutorial discretion. I would have let her off with a warning, fine, probation, etc.

Quoting 747400F (Reply 26):
What is the proper reaction then? just to let them get on with in? NO WAY

Certainly if a TSA agent or any law enforcement official, or any citizen for that matter does something offensive to you (in this case, it appeared to be standard operating procedure as detailed in numerous signs at the airport, numerous news stories, etc but let's assume hypothetically there is something offensive being done) you are right that one should not "let them get away with it". However, the proper way to not allow someone to get away with it is to file a grievance, complain, alert the news media, sue, or at the very least simply tell the offending person to stop. CWApilot's point (if he'll allow me) is that assaulting the offensive individual is not the way to go about things. If it were, I know I'd be assaulting every fellow pax with too many carry-on bags, or fellow pax that smell badly on a long-haul, etc.  Wink

Finally, like a few other posters in this thread, I must say I do smell the stench of knee-jerk anti-Americanism coming from our Canadian and European friends.
The size of the federal budget is not an appropriate barometer of social conscience or charitable concern. --R. Reagan
 
ACDC8
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:39 am

Quoting Gipper913 (Reply 30):
However, as an attorney (insert joke about common-sense here) I must say the pax did assault the TSA officer. That is a crime.

Darn, can't come up with any attorney jokes right now ...  Wink

I can't see how it would be a crime if one over-reacts by being in a situation where one feels violated.

Quoting Gipper913 (Reply 30):
I would have let her off with a warning, fine, probation, etc.

That would have been very reasonable.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
gipper913
Posts: 172
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:49 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 31):
I can't see how it would be a crime if one over-reacts by being in a situation where one feels violated.

Not to get too off subject into legal arcana...but assault and/or battery (the unwanted touching of yourself by another) is a crime, regardless of the motivation. But, self-defense is a valid legal defense to the crime. From the article, it appeared that the woman tried a self-defense argument as part of her legal defense and it was not believed by the jury.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 31):
That would have been very reasonable.

I try to be reasonable, though often fail.
The size of the federal budget is not an appropriate barometer of social conscience or charitable concern. --R. Reagan
 
ACDC8
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:21 am

Quoting Gipper913 (Reply 32):
Not to get too off subject into legal arcana...but assault and/or battery (the unwanted touching of yourself by another) is a crime, regardless of the motivation.

I'm sure in legal terms it is, but I am also sure it can be abused (I'm not implying that it is in this case).

Quoting Gipper913 (Reply 32):
But, self-defense is a valid legal defense to the crime. From the article, it appeared that the woman tried a self-defense argument as part of her legal defense and it was not believed by the jury.

But should it really have gone that far?

Quoting Gipper913 (Reply 32):
I try to be reasonable, though often fail.

It's not easy is it? Nice to have a legal opinion on this.

BTW, welcome to A.net!
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
PanHAM
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:36 am

TSA really goes from burlesque over slap-stick to stand up comedy and all is live. First smile was the Ladies name -Dintenfass - replace the D with a T and the German word translates to inkpot which, by all means, is a very appropriate name for a teacher. Pins and needles hold together a hairdo which we call over here a "Dutt" which agains, fits a retired teacher remarkably well.

Luckily, she did not carry a ruler and other "weapons of math instructions", the use of which might have given her even more years in the slammer. I mean, all of us know how dangerous teachers can be, especially those with that suspicious hairdo.

What really worries me, are all those laws about sexual harrassment you have in the states null and void at a TSA checkpoint? Do TSA screeners have immunity concerning these laws?

As it was mentioned earlier in this thread, how is live in South Park these days?
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columbia107
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:50 am

Whilst I do not know who is right or wrong, having served in the military, I can but say that inevitably there will always be a few individuals who simply go overboard just because he or she is wearing a uniform. Yes, individuals in positions of authority and wearing a uniform, need to quickly learn how to wear it by showing respect towards the people it comes into direct contact with. For example, like the British Bobby in the heart of the London metropolis. In return, the public quickly respond with respectability and do as they are told! It boils down to mutual respect.
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jetdeltamsy
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:52 am

My own mother, according to her, got "felt up" by a female TSA agent when she was clearing security at Bloomington, Illinois last winter.

For my own mother, who is a prude's prude, to say something like that was a complete shock and it must have happened.

But boobs can conceal things and everybody needs to be thoroughly checked. I don't have a answer.

ANCFlyer??? you out there? let's hear what you think (i already know!!)!
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
gipper913
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:01 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 34):
What really worries me, are all those laws about sexual harassment you have in the states null and void at a TSA checkpoint? Do TSA screeners have immunity concerning these laws?

First, lol regarding the ironic German language connotations - very funny. Sexual harassment laws certainly apply to the TSA, but would more likely be applied if, say, a supervising TSA officer was harassing a junior TSA officer. In this case, if, hypothetically (it doesn't appear to be what happened here) the TSA officer simply grabbed the pax's breasts, fondled them, or as we say "felt her up"...that would be sexual assault, and of course the TSA is not immune from prosecution for such a horrible crime. This is why (as here) TSA screeners use the backs of their hands to pat down people in sensitive areas...and generally pat down the undersides and middle of women's breasts, not grabbing the breasts, feeling nipples, etc.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 33):
But should it really have gone that far?

Nah...as I said, if I were the US Attorney prosecuting the case on the facts as presented in the article (which I am sure are by no means comprehensive), I would have recommended a warning and fine and maybe probation at most (as I said earlier) and if I were TSA supervisor I would recommend that the TSA officer in question work on her communication skills so that she explains to each pax exactly what she is about to do in the patdown process. I suspect, as another a.netter said earlier in this thread, that we are missing some crucial facts and exacerbating circumstances that led to the full prosecution and stiff sentence. If and when the case is published (not all trial level cases are published...often only appeals level and above) I will peruse the entire record and sentencing order.

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 33):
BTW, welcome to A.net!

Thanks! I've been enjoying the site for months, and finally took the plunge for the pay features.
The size of the federal budget is not an appropriate barometer of social conscience or charitable concern. --R. Reagan
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:06 am

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 3):
I thought TSA was in the trash can, when is the US Gov getting rid of them?

Unfortunately, now potentially never at the major airports. Can you imagine the insurance liability for the airport/airline/consortium that takes it over?
 
gopal
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:23 am

I think the retired teacher should be given a break and let go with a lesser punishment. It is understandable for an elderly person (> 60 yrs) to be a little outraged at being patted down in a sensitive area however well the TSA agent explained the reason for performing the "pat down". I think it was momentary loss of control for her.

I don't blame the TSA agent for doing her job either. Thanks to their efforts (TSA) we are flying safely today than ever before. There should more effort to inform the public about the procedures followed by TSA via TV programs, newspaper articles etc. People should realize that pat down searches are common in many parts of the world. It is performed even if a passenger does not set the alarm bells ringing.
 
kykevin54
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:58 am

Quoting Gopal (Reply 39):
Thanks to their efforts (TSA) we are flying safely today than ever before.

That is still debatable. I've heard arguments from both sides, but I'm not sure if we can say for sure that we're better off now than we were before. Loopholes still exist, they just want to intimidate law abiding passengers into thinking that there aren't.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:22 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 36):
But boobs can conceal things and everybody needs to be thoroughly checked. I don't have a answer.

Agreed. I deffo think check the boobs/crotch. But it may be nice to say "I will have to search your breasts" or something if the individual seems jumpy. Granted it's often hard to tell how an individual will react, but it might help.

As usual in these cases, we will probably never find out "the truth" of the case (do we really need yet another security camera just to figure out who is groping whom in the security checkpoint?). I will deal with being groped by the TSA. I don't much care since I have basically zero body/nudity taboo in me. But I can understand how this will a source of friction (no pun intended) for many.

There is no good answer unless we can come up with a non invasive (non touching) way of searchin a person. Oops wait, that would also be invasive to some people. Sigh...
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
tsaord
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:01 am

well..doing the limited pat downs started after those 2 russian airliners went down because 2 women had explosives strapped to their chest. if that were to happen here, the only way to see if someone had an explosive attached to their chest is to do a pat down of the torso/chest area.

we are trained to screen all items and persons for prohibited items, and to stop them the best we can from making it on board an aircraft! we dont want to have to touch people's bodies and make them feel violated all the time. but its our job. and if folks who wear the suites who created this agency said do it, then we will. passenger safety is the #1 priority.
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bennett123
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:42 am

My first thought after reading reply 6 is that the TSA is employing perverts.

The test for a pervert is that instead of the TSA paying him, he pays the TSA.

Seriously, has the TSA checked the criminal records of these people.
 
tsaord
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:04 pm

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 43):
Seriously, has the TSA checked the criminal records of these people.

we go through extensive background checks since the agency is federalized. and some people have been terminated for either lying, or trying to conceal past crimes.
there are icons, then there are legends, then there is rick flair
 
jafa39
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:13 pm

Quoting TUNisia (Thread starter):
and slammed me against the wall



Quoting TUNisia (Thread starter):
grabbed my breasts and squeezed them

Some people have all the luck!!!  Wink
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MidnightMike
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RE: Woman Convicted Of Grabbing TSA Screener's Breast

Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:27 pm

Quoting Gopal (Reply 39):
think the retired teacher should be given a break and let go with a lesser punishment. It is understandable for an elderly person (> 60 yrs) to be a little outraged at being patted down in a sensitive area however well the TSA agent explained the reason for performing the "pat down". I think it was momentary loss of control for her.

You would also think that the older school teacher would understand the need for rules and to follow them, the retired school teacher was not elderly, just older......
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