ruslan
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 11:14 pm

Major US Airlines To Atlanta!

Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:44 am

Hey all,
This is a question that's been burning at me for a few years ever since I first came to ATL. I'm not saying it's good or bad but it's just an observation. Is it because of ATL being Delta's headquarters but why is it that major airlines such as American, Continental, United etc. deploy their smaller aircraft on routes that I thought were major such as American using Super 80s from DFW-ATL-DFW and ORD-ATL-ORD, Continental using 737-300s and -500s as well as the ERJs, and United using 737-300s and ERJs, Northwest using A319s and DC-9s to Detroit and the like. (I have seen NW 757s in ATL before though and AA did have 1 late night 757 flight to ATL from MIA but I'm not sure if it's still there). Delta on the other hand has far more variety and operates their larger aircraft to some of these same cities where other major airlines have their hubs eg. 767-200s and 757 to Miami for example, while AA operates the 737-800 (a recent change from the Super 80). Just as DL operates a 767 from its own hub to Miami for example, couldn't AA or UA operate a 757 or 767 from their hubs to ATL as well? Is it because AA, CO, UA and NW opt for higher frequency to ATL with smaller aircraft because of ATL's location with respect to MIA, ORD, IAD or DFW) or is there a restriction involving the airport's authority or FAA on the aircraft types and capacities that they can operate into ATL due to any factor such as gate availability, schedules etc. I'd appreciate it if anyone knows the answer to this question because I'm very curious about this after years of spotting at ATL.
Thanks in advance,
Ruslan
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24597
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Major US Airlines To Atlanta!

Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:01 am

Quoting Ruslan (Thread starter):
Just as DL operates a 767 from its own hub to Miami for example, couldn't AA or UA operate a 757 or 767 from their hubs to ATL as well?

Sure, if they wanted to fly empty planes.

Quoting Ruslan (Thread starter):
Is it because AA, CO, UA and NW opt for higher frequency to ATL with smaller aircraft because of ATL's location with respect to MIA, ORD, IAD or DFW)

The other airlines operate far fewer frequencies than DL. DL has 12 daily MIA-ATL; AA has only six. That is just one example.

It is because Delta is the dominant airline in Atlanta, and other airlines cannot get as great a market share. They have less frequency and smaller aircraft because that's what demand calls for.
a.
 
padcrasher
Posts: 1815
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:17 am

RE: Major US Airlines To Atlanta!

Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:06 am

These airlines fly the smallest mainline aircraft in order to service their own frequent flyer base from their backyards to ATL . ATL is not a leisure destination DL on the other hand has the benefit of International connections and a slew of secondary connections that other airlines do not service well. So Delta fills the widebodies with connecting trafic and their own FF base.

[Edited 2005-07-29 18:10:39]
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Major US Airlines To Atlanta!

Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:29 am

Quoting Ruslan (Thread starter):
Is it because of ATL being Delta's headquarters but why is it that major airlines such as American, Continental, United etc. deploy their smaller aircraft on routes that I thought were major

For the same reason Delta fly's smaller aircraft into other major hubs.
 
usnseallt82
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Major US Airlines To Atlanta!

Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:37 am

I would agree with the previous statements also. Not only is it a matter of ATL being DL 's hub, but as it was said before, it isn't a destination city for most people. So, the other airlines are simply shuttling people there for connections to other major destinations, or, as most people seem to be doing these days, taking people who are going to switch to DL or another carrier for the second leg of the trip. DL operates the wider-bodied aircraft to other cities because the frequency isn't as much as AA or CO, as someone said before also. The others use the smaller planes to keep a variety of choices of what times to fly.

Basically, its just a difference in planning by the respective airlines. Of course, if you went to DFW and saw AA's operations, you'd see that they too use widebodies for popular routes, such as 777's for the DFW-LAX route. It all depends on where the hubs are, what the demand for a particular route is, and what aircraft the particular airlines have to choose from.

I hope this helps a little. I'm sure someone else could give you more information than I can. Cheers!  

[Edited 2005-07-29 18:38:57]
Crye me a river
 
commavia
Posts: 9802
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: Major US Airlines To Atlanta!

Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:42 am

IMO, it's also a bit unfair to compare DL's ATL operation with the other operations there of the non-hub carriers. DL's ATL operation has a few unique circumstances governing non-hub carriers' scheduling and capacity there. First, DL's ATL hub is just so massive, much larger than the next largest hub in the world, DFW. Secondly, DL's network -- not just in ATL, in general -- is based far more on tons of flights each day with huge aircraft. They fly tons of 757s, 767s and even a few 777s on high-capacity routes to Florida, and even have large narrowbodies on their virtual shuttles from ATL to cities like BOS, LGA, EWR, DCA, ORD, etc. So, in the context of that type of scheduling by DL, all the other airlines' MD80s, 737s or RJs look tiny by comparison. However, if you looked at just about any other airline's hub, and looked at the schedule the non-hub carriers ran out of there, all of the U.S. carriers' ATL operations look pretty standard.
 
Jetter2
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:01 pm

RE: Major US Airlines To Atlanta!

Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:47 am

I noticed that DL seems to use the heavy metal alot outta ATL, even though here at DFW, AAL still utilizes most of the mid-sized guys.

I remember DL used to fly I think 2x daily rides from ATL-MCO and ATL-MIA on the L1011.

The -500 went to hawaii and europe.
 
gr8slvrflt
Posts: 1449
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 10:53 pm

RE: Major US Airlines To Atlanta!

Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:48 am

Some of them used to. Continental used to run A300s between Atlanta and Newark. Northwest flew DC-10s from Atlanta to Tampa and Chicago, I believe. National flew DC-10s to San Francisco. United may have flown tens into Atlanta before they pulled out in the mid-seventies; not sure. Pan 747s operated interchange services with Delta. Presidential A300s flew ATL-LGB for a brief period. Of course, Eastern ran lots of L1011s, A300s, and an occassional DC-10 into Atlanta. To my knowledge, American, US Airways, and TWA never landed widebodies here.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3654
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: Major US Airlines To Atlanta!

Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:19 am

ATL not being a large city, the O/D demand just isnt there for UA to fly 777s in every day....or AA having 20 flights to MIA on 757s.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24597
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Major US Airlines To Atlanta!

Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:24 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 8):
ATL not being a large city, the O/D demand just isnt there for UA to fly 777s in every day....or AA having 20 flights to MIA on 757s.

Atlanta is very much a large city. It is the second largest metro in the Southern US and tenth largest in the US.

Now, Atlanta is not Paris, New York City, or Tokyo, like many of their residents like to claim (there is a very funny episode of Futurama that pokes fun at this in a very funny way), but a large city it is.
a.
 
padcrasher
Posts: 1815
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:17 am

RE: Major US Airlines To Atlanta!

Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:27 am

And if you look at airports only as opposed to markets it has one the largest O&D markets in the country. I read a list a few years ago that showed it as the largest domestic O&D airport in the country.
 
padcrasher
Posts: 1815
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:17 am

RE: Major US Airlines To Atlanta!

Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:40 am

I'm sorry this was a study that looked at individual airline operations. So it was not ATL that was the largest, but Delta's operation that handled the most Domestic O & D.
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3654
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: Major US Airlines To Atlanta!

Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:54 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Now, Atlanta is not Paris, New York City, or Tokyo, like many of their residents like to claim (there is a very funny episode of Futurama that pokes fun at this in a very funny way), but a large city it is.

Thats what i meant. If it was NY it would be another story....
 
ALB2ATL
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:57 am

RE: Major US Airlines To Atlanta!

Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:56 am

Quoting Jetter2 (Reply 6):

I remember DL used to fly I think 2x daily rides from ATL-MCO and ATL-MIA on the L1011.

They sure did! The most exciting flight of my life (and second a/c I flew on). I had, I believe, seat 22h or j (window, next to huge RB211 engine). It was awesome!

BR
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Major US Airlines To Atlanta!

Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:08 am

Some of the majors are trying to cherry pick from DL and FL with the addition of flights to non-hub cities. AA (Along with American Eagle) is now flying on the ATL-LGA route and US (Via MidAtlantic) has been flying on the ATL-DCA route since the early part of this year.
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: Major US Airlines To Atlanta!

Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:32 am

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 4):
DL operates the wider-bodied aircraft to other cities because the frequency isn't as much as AA or CO, as someone said before also. The others use the smaller planes to keep a variety of choices of what times to fly.

Not true. DL has more frequency on routes from ATL than other airlines as well. Look at ATL-MIA. AA operates 6 737-800s while DL has 12 flights, many of them being widebodies. DL chooses to have lots of frequency as well as lots of seats.

Jeremy
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Major US Airlines To Atlanta!

Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:10 am

Delta also has far more wide-body aircraft than the other majors. CO can barely scrape up enough 767s and 777s for int'l operations. AA and UA have more widebodies, but, with a few exceptions, they use these for int'l flying.