mrniji
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Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:33 am

Reliable sources tell me that in view of the US expansion, AI is seriously considering to introduce a third service to NYC via FRA. It was said that this flight might be considered before any expansion to SFO or IAH takes place. It was said that this flight should fit into a scissors strategy via FRA (as the Transit Visa is becoming more and more unlikely) and be commenced from a "smaller" (here less than 10 Mio Big grin ) city in India.

Is anyone able to confirm or amend this information? for me, this is a surprise (inevitably they first need equipment - or is this an indication that new rustbuckets are leased?), as I expected SFO to be launched in the first instance.. NYC (and FRA-US) seems to be a strong market.. I went three times to FRA airport last week, and the AI counters have unbelievable queues with Westeners (probably Germans) / gauras Big grin , waiting to fly to ORD or LAX.. - and, probably AI first needs to get their act together and get the equipment, without disrupting the schedule.. I was forced to rebook myself on QR (this case not AIs fault, but the rains in BOM - and I was booked via BOM)..

And may I propose that someone demolishes the Ministry of Civil Aviation and finishes their control on an airline, that has the potential to be global player? What Patel is doing (hindering the growth while promoting privates and foreign airlines) is insane... every Kindergarden Kid would teach him a lesson.. Privatize AI!!!
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
cloudyapple
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:35 am

The question is with what and from where to get these planes?
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
 
kaitak
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:06 am

Personally, I'm surprised they're not going nonstop, which of course brings us back to the airplanes they need and can't get. However, is it Patel or the civil servants? It may well be that he is not fully in control of his brief or indeed, that the problem is with another department (such as Finance).

This may well be a job for PM Singh; basically, get the top civil servants and ministers around for a pleasant drink at the PM's official residence, set a date (say the 30th September), by which complete approval for both the IC and AI aircraft deals will be finalised. If not, there will be an investigation of both departments by the Indian security services, as a result of which senior officials idenitified as obstacles will be arrested and spend the rest of their careers doing survey work for the Department of Coal in the Western Ghats.

At this stage in the game, fear is the only thing that will motivate sufficiently to make the decision come about more quickly.
 
mrniji
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:11 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 2):
f not, there will be an investigation of both departments by the Indian security services, as a result of which senior officials idenitified as obstacles will be arrested and spend the rest of their careers doing survey work for the Department of Coal in the Western Ghats.

If someone sets a motion for a petition, I am the first one to vote affirmative... I recently saw a documentary on the inhuman conditions of coal mine workers in jharkand (Rs 30 / day of 12 hrs ++) and hope that our so-called civil servants (=babus) will reach the same fate
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
gamps
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:13 am

However, is it Patel or the civil servants?

Undoubtedly Patel who is acting as Minister of Jet Airways instead of Minister of Civil Aviation. I had high hopes when he was selected as minister as his background is in running successful business, but now it is clear that he would rather help his biz buddies than running the govt.

All acts of his in last few months, including "review" of the once approved order of Indian Airlines A320s, A319 have been postponed and who is reaping the benefit? Good ol' Jet Airways. And heck AI's Boeing order we now hear is being "reviewed" again.

If this continues in all probability Air India will just disappear - not that it hasn't already with fleet reduced to 20ish planes.
 
bartond
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:18 am

MRNiji,

So AI is looking more seriously at IAH than at DFW? You mentioned in your first post that expansion to "SFO or IAH" was mentioned.

Just curious, as there were some posts a few weeks back about DFW and IAH "battling" for AI service to India.
 
airish
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:41 am

Mrniji this article appeared in yesterdays Business Line.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...07/29/stories/2005072901871000.htm

No mention of 3rd NYC flight.
Worlds Only Reputable Airline Air India! Some Of The Least: BA, Jet (9w), Kingfisher!
 
hz747300
Posts: 1908
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Sat Jul 30, 2005 7:22 am

My company's largest office is in Bangalore (in population), and the company I worked for previously now has a large in Bangalore. I hope I'm spelling it right--anyhoo, I was curious as to why there were no flights from Western Europe & North America direct to Bangalore.
Keep on truckin'...
 
blrsea
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:02 am

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 7):
I was curious as to why there were no flights from Western Europe & North America direct to Bangalore.

LH has a FRA-BLR daily flight to Bangalore, which is always booked to capacity  Smile From this november, NWA will be starting AMS-BLR daily, BA will start LHR-BLR 5 times a week, and AF will start CDG-BLR 5 times a week.
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New Y

Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:46 am

Quoting Blrsea (Reply 8):

kinda funny that AI is missing from the list. So much so for our national carrier...huh!!
Moreover the article make pretty much everything clear. Those direct flights to JFK/ORD/SFO shall be last to come as they are so dependent of B772LR.
rgds
VT-ASJ

[Edited 2005-07-30 02:50:07]
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blrBird
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:11 am

Quoting Aseem (Reply 9):
kinda funny that AI is missing from the list.

As recenlty as couple months ago, a big guy @ AI said they dont get enough pax from BLR to fill the flights that is the reason they dont start any flights from BLR!

If this is true, it makes me wonder how can BLR sustain this huge influx of flights!
from star dust....
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New Y

Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:45 am

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 10):
As recenlty as couple months ago, a big guy @ AI said they dont get enough pax from BLR to fill the flights that is the reason they dont start any flights from BLR!

actually he wasn't wrong, as the rest of the airlines have divided the pie amongst themselves, and haven't even spared crumbs for poor AI chaps. Big grin
On the serious note, I don't expect to see BLR europe direct flights any time soon. At the most they'll start milkman flights like BLR-BOM-etc-etc. As the article clearly says the next step is more flights via CDG/FRA, next comes the direct ones upon delivery of B772s. And God know when direct once from BLR/HYD/MAA to elsewhere.
rgds
VT-ASJ
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blrsea
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:12 pm

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 10):
As recenlty as couple months ago, a big guy @ AI said they dont get enough pax from BLR to fill the flights that is the reason they dont start any flights from BLR!

That is strange, as the LH flights are always fully booked, and their fares are quite high too compared to other carriers. I have flown SQ twice from US west coast to BLR, and I saw quite a few passengers ending up on the SIN-BLR leg, and the flights in both directions were full. Another popular route from BLR these days is the one from TG, BLR-BKK-NRT-SEA, and the total travel time is 24 hours. Of course, the return journey sucks. I know lots of people who take this flight now instead of Eva airlines which lots of people(espcially parents  Smile ) used to prefer earlier as it came directly to SEA. No idea how full the Gulf Air and Srilankan airlines flight are though.
 
TKMCE
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:35 pm

I for one belieive a third NYC flight bypassing BOM/DEL is possible and viable. And there is logic behind it too . Take for eg BLR- till now only serviced by LH, now BA,AF and NW are all setting up flights. MAA which only had LH and BA now has a daily DL frequency as well. HYD , till Feb this year had to depend on EK for connections to US East Coast (other than AI ofcourse) now already have LH and KL has already announced a thrice weekly service from Winter 2005. So it looks like somebody is waking up atlast in AI.
 
Nimish
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:57 pm

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 10):
a big guy @ AI said they dont get enough pax from BLR

< rant >
That's probably because hardly any one prefers to fly AI - with their limited flights ex-BLR, odd-ball routings, and seriously precarious situation with the lack of aircraft. Even IC has a much better service ex-BLR - with daily SIN, and frequent BKK/KUL type of services, so very few people choose AI for SIN/BKK either.

Besides with their limited connectivity to key markets from BLR what do they expect? And their "hub" strategy is a sham, given the lack of feeder flights from spokes, or the lack of a real "bank" of flights every couple of hours.

Have they ever taken a look at the LH or TG or SQ flights ex-BLR?
< /rant >
Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:12 pm

Why doesn't AI lease a pair of B777-200ER's and operate JFK-DEL nonstop to compete with Continental, which as of Nov 1, will operate daily EWR to DEL, with 777's.

ContinentalEWR
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:39 pm

RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:22 pm

Quoting ContinentalEWR (Reply 15):
Why doesn't AI lease a pair of B777-200ER's

the situation is that neither B772ERs or A345 are easy to come by these days. AI isn't the only one looking for..btw!! they had put up a tender on their website a while ago. No news about any responses.
rgds
VT-ASJ
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mrniji
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:31 am

Sorry for the late reply for teh thread I opened.. (if you guys wanna know why, check the trip reports section soon.. My trip FRA-DEL took me about 36 hrs "due to unforseeable circumstances.. - not AI though, but they had a siderole Big grin )

Quoting Bartond (Reply 5):
So AI is looking more seriously at IAH than at DFW?

I read these threads, too, and was surprised about the rumors.. of course DFW lobbied, but afaik IAH was teh only serious consideration taken

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 10):
As recenlty as couple months ago, a big guy @ AI said they dont get enough pax from BLR to fill the flights that is the reason they dont start any flights from BLR!



Quoting Blrsea (Reply 12):
That is strange, as the LH flights are always fully booked, and their fares are quite high too compared to other carriers.

In fact, tehre is a big logic behind your question: O&D BLR-FRA/CDG etc is marginal - pax come from different destinations and connect in the respective hub, filling up the planes (example LH: from SFO, ORD, LON, LAX etc etc etc - all connect i FRA). take AIs case: Ai's hub (supposedly) is in BOM.. so they would need to have nonstops from BOM to all these cities in North America and Europe and then tehy could fill up a daily 744 from BOM to BLR.. if AI had a real hub in Europe and many north-american nonstops, they could fill up such flights. Or if they had PROPER interline arrangements in the US (codesharing. lets say all to ORD), they could "collect" teh pax there and fly a profitable nonstop.. does this make sense? Bottomline: No real point-tp-point potential, only hub and spoke works here
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
TUNisia
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New Y

Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:44 am

Is it unrealistic to see AI at BOS anytime in the not too distant future, given the large Indian population in and around the BOS area?

[Edited 2005-08-01 19:45:15]
Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:52 am

Quoting TUNisia (Reply 18):
Is it unrealistic to see AI at BOS anytime in the not too distant future

Yes  Sad
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:39 pm

RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:57 am

Quoting TUNisia (Reply 18):
Is it unrealistic to see AI at BOS anytime in the not too distant future, given the large Indian population in and around the BOS area?

yes it is unrealistic! if you see the distribution of AI's services to North America you'd notice one daily flight each to JFK/EWR, one to ORD, and to LAX. That leaves Southern part almost blank. There is no point in increasing frequency to North East without first starting to IAH/IAD/SFO.
rgds
VT-ASJ
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blrsea
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:05 am

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 17):
Or if they had PROPER interline arrangements in the US (codesharing. lets say all to ORD), they could "collect" teh pax there and fly a profitable nonstop.. does this make sense?

Makes sense, however, AI is yet to recognize that. I beleive AI has code-share with UA on west coast to ferry pax to their LAX-IND flight, and with AA to ferry the pax to their east coast-IND flights. I had taken the AA SEA-JFK flight to connect to AI's JFK-LHR-BOM-BLR flight, and since AA didn't have non-stop SEA-JFK, it was SEA-DFW-JFK. So the overall flight was SEA-DFW-JFK-LHR-BOM-BLR which was very painful, given the AI's service or the lack of it. If they atleast had good code-shares with other domestic US operators, it will be good. Limiting it to just one per zone is very short-sighted!!
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:39 pm

RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New Y

Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:09 am

Quoting Blrsea (Reply 21):
SEA-DFW-JFK-LHR-BOM-BLR which was very painful

must have been one big pain in the , are you sure it was DFW not DTW . Why didn't you fly via pacific. CX or Asiana would have been better. And if you were that particular about AI, then could have taken it from NRT.
rgds
VT-ASJ

[Edited 2005-08-01 20:14:34]
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vivek0072
Posts: 283
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:14 am

what about SFO ? there is a huge desi population in SFO ?
That life's most failures were people who did not realise how close they were to success when they gave up. - Edison.
 
blrsea
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RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:16 am

Quoting Aseem (Reply 22):
must have been one big pain in the . Why didn't you fly via pacific. CX or Asiana would have been better. And if you were that particular about AI, then could have taken it from NRT.

I was forced to fly that route due to non-availability of other options. I was flying in first week of jan and was booking during 2nd week of dec as some work suddenly came to an end, and I thought I could make good use of it to visit home  Smile .
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:39 pm

RE: Air India Likely To Start 3rd Service To New York

Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:16 am

Quoting Vivek0072 (Reply 23):
what about SFO ? there is a huge desi population in SFO ?

the most credible expansion info we have so far mentions IAH, IAD & SFO. No clue in which sequence.
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