AvioGuy
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AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:05 pm

AI Boeing skids on Mumbai runway, airport closed

An Air India Boeing 747-400 from Bangalore skidded and overshot the runway in Mumbai and got bogged in the softground at the end of the track on Saturday morning.

There were 335 passengers onboard the flight that was later scheduled to go to Chicago via Frankfurt.

According to reports, all passengers onboard are safe.

The secondary runway, which was opened to traffic two days ago after disruptions because of heavy rains, was again forced to be closed.

The main runway is still not available as the landing and navigational aids are unserviceable.

Passengers are being deplanned and brought to the terminal building while efforts are on to extricate the aircraft.

According to Airport officials, the nose-wheel went into the slushy mud, and airbags would be used to lift the undercarriage and pull it back on the runway.

The incident happened at around 7 am when it was raining heavily. All incoming flights to Mumbai have been diverted, the sources said.

The out-bound flights have also been held up though the Airports Authority of India is planning to allow flights to take off from the main runway, the sources added.

http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/jul/30airport.htm
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c172
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:07 pm

Thank goodness everyone was okay!

ALL incoming flights have been diverted? I wonder how many thousands of pax are affected. Good luck AI.


 dopey c172 drunk 
 
AirIndiaOne
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:58 pm

Aircraft was VT-EVJ which was also grounded at LAX a few days ago.
It has now been turned around and taken to the bay. Take-off's have started from 27 and 14 will be opened anytime for landings. Some of the intl. flights which took off today late morning included NWA and BA 138 which was going to DXB!
"You don't have to be crazy to be in aviation, but it helps", JRD Tata
 
777ER
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:21 pm

Glad everyone is safe. Why was VT-EVJ grounded at LAX a few days earlier?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:30 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 3):
Why was VT-EVJ grounded at LAX a few days earlier

Hydraulic Shuttle valve Replacement due Leak.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:19 pm

14-32 Cleared for Ops.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
flyinTLow
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:22 pm

poor AI, they just don't seem to have any luck with anything lately. Anything that can go wrong with an airline is hitting them!
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Nimish
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:01 pm

Quoting AvioGuy (Thread starter):
An Air India Boeing 747-400 from Bangalore skidded and overshot the runway in Mumbai and got bogged in the softground at the end of the track on Saturday morning.

Any guesses on why this might have happened? I'm sure the official version will take forever and blame everyone other than the concerned person/s  sarcastic .
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AirIndiaOne
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:09 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 7):
I'm sure the official version will take forever and blame everyone

that is so true...This was shown on TV and it was made a big deal by the media even though aircraft slipping on wet RWY's is not that rare all across the world. Patel says he will order a DGCA enquiry about this incident.
That's ridiculous.
EVJ after being towed to bay was operating normally. It has already left for chicago / frankfurt at about 12 noon.
"You don't have to be crazy to be in aviation, but it helps", JRD Tata
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sat Jul 30, 2005 7:13 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 7):
Any guesses on why this might have happened? I'm sure the official version will take forever and blame everyone other than the concerned person/s

Touched down later on the Runway,Reduced Braking My guess.

Quoting AirIndiaOne (Reply 8):
Patel says he will order a DGCA enquiry about this incident

Every Incident is reportable to DGCA.

Media is hyping it again.Talking to Pax only increases the panic.Talk to the Airline Spokesperson.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
karan69
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:13 pm

Quoting AirIndiaOne (Reply 8):
This was shown on TV and it was made a big deal by the media even though aircraft slipping on wet RWY's is not that rare all across the world. Patel says he will order a DGCA enquiry about this incident.
That's ridiculous.

I saw it on TV too and the ridiculous comments that the Star News reporter was making "that this has never happened before" etc etc.

The aircraft seemed in perfect flying condition.
 
aseem
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:19 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 9):
Media is hyping it again.Talking to Pax only increases the panic.Talk to the Airline Spokesperson.



Quoting Karan69 (Reply 10):
I saw it on TV too and the ridiculous comments that the Star News reporter was making "that this has never happened before" etc etc.

so much so for our enlightened media, what I am afraid of is that poor senior pilot will be screwed to save so many political necks..
our media really sucks!! will they tell that the aircraft left after couple of hours.
rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
isuA380B777
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:35 pm

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 10):
I saw it on TV too and the ridiculous comments that the Star News reporter was making "that this has never happened before" etc etc.

The aircraft seemed in perfect flying condition.

These TV reporters have to be very careful when using words. This type of incidents are not uncommon and these media people are scaring innocent passengers.
I am glad that every one is safe. Wish all the best to AI.

Regards
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:36 pm

Quoting Aseem (Reply 11):
our media really sucks!! will they tell that the aircraft left after couple of hours.

Record 90 mins to tow a B744 after over shoot.That would not be sensational news to the media  Smile
I can Imagine the Pressure on them [rescue team] to do so under the current circumstanses.
 bigthumbsup 
Great job.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
isuA380B777
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:41 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 13):
Record 90 mins to tow a B744 after over shoot.That would not be sensational news to the media
I can Imagine the Pressure on them [rescue team] to do so under the current circumstanses.

Great job.
regds
MEL

I have to agree with you my friend. Did AI tow trucks towed this bird or did they hire some external towing company?

Regards
Isu
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:52 pm

Quoting IsuA380B777 (Reply 14):
Did AI tow trucks towed this bird or did they hire some external towing company

AI with help from AAI [Airports Authority of India].
AI used Inflatable rubber Air Bags & Tow trucks.Its an approved procedure for retriving bogged down Aircraft.AI Use their own Equipment.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
isuA380B777
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:59 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 15):
AI with help from AAI [Airports Authority of India].
AI used Inflatable rubber Air Bags & Tow trucks.Its an approved procedure for retriving bogged down Aircraft.AI Use their own Equipment.
regds
MEL

Thanks for the information. Very much appreciate it. Keep us updated with any new news regarding this.
Regards
Isu
 
VC-10
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:06 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 7):
Any guesses on why this might have happened?

In my experience of taxi-ing 747's in the wet, if you turn the tiller too quickly a/c momentum will force the nose wheels to loose grip on the tarmac and the a/c will go straight on.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:08 pm


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bruce Leibowitz


Quoting IsuA380B777 (Reply 16):
Keep us updated with any new news regarding this

Aircraft has been towed away.
14-32 is operational.But only under SVFR.
09-27 is being used for T/Os only until the NAV Equipment [damaged by the Floods] is Fixed.
regds
MEL

[Edited 2005-07-30 14:22:29]
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himmat01
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:47 pm

Passengers were taken to the terminal building and put on board in another Boeing 767-400, which took off at 12.05 pm with a total of 408 passengers and crew on board for Chicago via Frankfurt, AI spokesman Jitender Bhargav said.

The people in rediff have stated that the pax were put on another 767-400. Maybe they are privy to some information which we anetters are not aware about.

Himmat
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PK786
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:24 am

Thanks for all the information and keeping us up to date guys from IA.
Regard.  bigthumbsup 
 
aseem
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:53 am

Quoting PK786 (Reply 20):
Thanks for all the information and keeping us up to date guys from IA.

IA??  confused  which airlines are you talking about??
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
PK786
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:03 am

Indian Airline or Air India IA OR AI
 
aseem
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:11 am

Quoting PK786 (Reply 22):

okay okay!! Indian Airlines is IC and Air India is AI. The IA your referred to is Iraqi Airways. Sorry clueless about the latter.  Wink
cheers!!
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
AirIndiaOne
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:38 am

Quoting Himmat01 (Reply 19):
Passengers were taken to the terminal building and put on board in another Boeing 767-400

the Boeing 747-400 u mean...!
The onward flight was not continued on EVJ as said earlier, my mistake!
Still heavy delays for departures from BOM. My uncle who was to fly on the 27th rebooked himself on AI717 whose regular dep time is 1445.
Today pax were on board by 1545 but the takeoff time was 1850 !
Hopefully the schedules come to normal soon
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blrsea
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:45 am

A-I pilot did not brake hard: Patel

Quote:
...
"Preliminary reports suggest that the pilot did not apply full brakes to avoid skidding on the wet runway. He had estimated that the plane would come to a stop before the end of the runway. It did so, but the nosewheel went out of the runway by a few feet," he told reporters in New Delhi.
...
Patel said the Air India pilot was a senior executive pilot who had decided not to apply hard brakes, which could have increased the chances of skidding when torrential rains were on.
...
Replying to questions on the recent flooding of the airport, Patel said as the runways were submerged due to the heavy rains, the highly-sophisticated electronic instrument landing system and navigational aids were under water and
slush.

"Since these are very sensitive equipment, these have to be fully tested before they can be used," he said, adding that work on this direction was already on.
 
fly_emirates
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sun Jul 31, 2005 4:33 am

a 767-400!!!!! last time i checked DL and Continental were the only operators of those
 
onedude
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sun Jul 31, 2005 5:10 am

QF123/124 has been re-routed via SIN.
 
airliner777
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Clos

Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:16 am

"...the pilot did not brake hard to avoid skidding"

If you brake hard on a wet runway surface you will skid, but then at least the anti-skid system will help you. Now, if we call it "Hydroplaning," then that's different. The media likes to always go technical on subjects where they lack knowledge, and who's there to blame them? Us? They could care less! I'm glad everything went ok for the passengers, crew, and aircraft.

"Passengers were taken to the terminal building and put on board in another Boeing 767-400"

See what I'm talking about?


Don't believe everything you read or hear!  no   wink 

Regards,
Airliner777
 
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:49 am

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vt977
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:16 am

Indian Express is reporting 2 AI 744's skidded off runway at BOM.
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_st...kids~off~runway,~2nd~in~90~minutes

Any details on the second one?
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:19 am

"The Boeing 747-400 aircraft was commandeered by Captain Jagdish Singh, a senior commander and an instructor on Airbus aircraft."


Commandeered? Another pilot forcefully took control of the airplane? Sounds like AI has some internal personnel problems if one pilot has to force another to take over a flight.

com·man·deer

TRANSITIVE VERB:
com·man·deered , com·man·deer·ing , com·man·deers
To force into military service.
To seize for military use; confiscate.
To take arbitrarily or by force.
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
PyroGX41487
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:02 am

ROFLMAO @ reply 31.

Yeah, 767-400? I didn't know DL or CO flew those into Mumbai.... Meh. Glad everyone is okay. What was the name of the airplane that was involved in the accident? I was on "Agra" a year ago...
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sun Jul 31, 2005 4:19 pm

Quoting PyroGX41487 (Reply 32):
What was the name of the airplane that was involved in the accident

Read that as "Incident".  Smile VT-EVJ.
regds
MEL
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cbphoto
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:10 pm

One thing everyone has to understand here is the differences in terms that most are accustom too and the terms the Indians use. A Captain in India is referred to as a "Commander," and thus is where the media gets the Commandeered from. No, no one forcefully took over the controls or anything like that, it's just a term they use for Capitan. So lets get off that subject and discuss the real reason why the two aircraft overshot the runways. And also as a side note, Air India, just like any other airline in India right now, is desperate for pilots. The less senior pilots will most likely fly the Airbus, while the more senior pilots fly the Boeings. This is why the Airbus Instructor was flying the 747s. Agreed that most airlines would keep fleet commonality with Multiple type ratings, but this is India and when they need pilots, they will get them from anyway, even if the pilot is type rated on a Russian jet. As long as the pilot can fly, Air India will fly them. Hope this clears up a little bit!!
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:32 pm

Quoting CBPhoto (Reply 34):
So lets get off that subject and discuss the real reason why the two aircraft overshot the runways

 thumbsup  Well said

Quoting CBPhoto (Reply 34):
Agreed that most airlines would keep fleet commonality with Multiple type ratings, but this is India and when they need pilots, they will get them from anyway, even if the pilot is type rated on a Russian jet. As long as the pilot can fly, Air India will fly them.

 thumbsdown 
Its not that simple....There is a seperate Recruitment process & its not so easy.

Regarding the Indicent.....I'd say Water on the Runway caused Aquaplaning.
regds
MEL
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adam1115
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:01 am

Quoting AvioGuy (Thread starter):
There were 335 passengers onboard the flight that was later scheduled to go to Chicago via Frankfurt.



Quoting Airliner777 (Reply 28):
"Passengers were taken to the terminal building and put on board in another Boeing 767-400"

WOW! AI is fitting 335 people on a 767??? Pretty good!
 
AirIndiaOne
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:11 am

Quoting Adam1115 (Reply 36):
WOW! AI is fitting 335 people on a 767??? Pretty good!

Its a typo error which has continued from the top 10 posts.
AI doesnt have a 767, the correct type being 747-400.
"You don't have to be crazy to be in aviation, but it helps", JRD Tata
 
cbphoto
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:14 am

MEL,
That was a little bit of sarcasm, of course it's not that easy. But the point I was trying to get at was that AI is desperate for pilots, and they will take whom ever they can round up, including airbus instructors to fly there long haul fleet. Hope this helps. I agree as well that it was most likely due to water on the rwy, and we all know BOM ryws are not the longest!!
CC
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:37 pm

Quoting Airliner777 (Reply 28):
Don't believe everything you read or hear

Unless its from an A Netter  bigthumbsup 

Quoting CBPhoto (Reply 38):

I thought you meant it seriously  Smile

Aquaplaning or Hydroplaning the real cause & a later touchdown.

Currently its still raining out here & Visability has dropped.Another Day of heavy rain is forcasted.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
isuA380B777
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:19 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 39):
Currently its still raining out here & Visability has dropped.Another Day of heavy rain is forcasted.

I am very sad as I saw the flooding in the TV. It must be pretty hard for you guys in Mumbai? Does this flooding affect the AI operations?

I wish the rain will get clear soon

Regards
Isu
 
mrniji
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:40 pm

Quoting CBPhoto (Reply 34):
One thing everyone has to understand here is the differences in terms that most are accustom too and the terms the Indians use.



Quoting CBPhoto (Reply 34):
they will get them from anyway

There might be a differerence in terms you and the public use, too.. "they will get them from anyway.. where the hell is anyway?

Quoting CBPhoto (Reply 34):
As long as the pilot can fly, Air India will fly them.

Utter bullshit. Read the DGCA Guidelines before posting your assumptions
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:41 pm

Quoting IsuA380B777 (Reply 40):
Does this flooding affect the AI operations

14-32 being used has a Min Visability RVR of 800m.Unlike 09-27 whose Equipment was damaged due floods.
When Visability drops all Aircraft are affected.
regds
MEL
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Nimish
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Clos

Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:06 pm

Looked at in perspective to the unfortunate AF/YYZ incident today - this does not seem like such a terrible outcome any more. I'm waiting for the official reports to see if today's YYZ incident was similar to the BOM one, but they do have some elements of commonality (thankfully the outcomes were different).
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HAWK21M
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:48 pm

Thunderstorms were not present at Bom but Bad Visability & Strong winds were.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
COKLHR
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:56 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 44):
Thunderstorms were not present at Bom but Bad Visability & Strong winds were.

I think the pilot did a wonderful job in the circumstances. The Indian media has blown this incident out of proportion.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:11 am

[

Quoting COKLHR (Reply 45):
I think the pilot did a wonderful job in the circumstances. The Indian media has blown this incident out of proportion.

Totally Agree.Political pressure increased after the Media rports.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
ikramerica
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:11 am

Yes, it does sound like he was correct in his belief that the best course of action was to brake as he did. The nose gear likely just slipped off the edge, and since the ground is so soft from horrible rains, the gear sank. The pax likely had no threat to safety. But it is a good reason to extend the runway, even with a reinforced gravel safety strip of a few hundred yards that can't flood/become mud.

The real concern is that with the horrible conditions that they continue to fly into an airport that both physically due to damage and environmentally due to weather should not be taking planes of this size loaded this heavily at this time.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:58 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 47):
it is a good reason to extend the runway, even with a reinforced gravel safety strip of a few hundred yards that can't flood/become mud

Remember this was the Alternate Runway 14-32 not the normally used Runway 09-27,which was u/s following damage to the Nav Equipment due the floods.
The 14-32 is a shorter runway & there is a lot of work currently on in Mumbai to lengthen the Runway,build additional bays & taxitracks too.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
COKLHR
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RE: AI Boeing Skids On Mumbai Runway, Airport Closed

Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:23 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 48):
The 14-32 is a shorter runway & there is a lot of work currently on in Mumbai to lengthen the Runway,build additional bays & taxitracks too.

The lengthening of the shorter runway will probably get more political support as a result of the incident and media reports. That's a positive outcome.

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