squirrel83
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:17 pm

Interesting Little Article about Boeing and Air New Zealand flying longer routes with the 777lr, and little tidbit about Air Newland and the 737-9.

Passengers may soon be able to fly non-stop from Auckland to New York. Boeing has surveyed customers about their preferences and says these flights, which could last 18 hours, are the future.

The 200LR can stay in the air fully loaded with 301 passengers for about 19 hours covering just over 17,400 kilometres, allowing almost any two cities in the world to be connected non-stop, including Auckland to New York.

Air New Zealand's new economy class seat which is being fitted to its Boeing 747 and 777 fleet was based on the Boeing standard.

The seats are designed to allow a 1.90m (6ft 3in) tall person to extend their legs under the seat in front without their shins touching the bottom of that seat. The seat height at the knees is also optimised for 96 per cent of the population.

The upper seat back is also slightly thinner, despite the installation of seat-back video screens, giving a little more space.

Air New Zealand has an option on the LR as part of its order for a fleet of eight 777-200ER and the all new 787 jets. Though there are no plans to exercise the option in the near future, the type might find a place in the fleet as Air New Zealand develops its network, chief financial officer Rob McDonald says.

Air New Zealand is more likely to rely on the smaller long range 787-9 to eventually open new routes as far afield as India, Canada and the eastern US.

http://www.rednova.com/news/technology/192203/boeing_preparing_for_long_haul
A346, 7E7, 747, 777, Sonic Cruiser
 
EddieDude
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:29 am

You should edit the title and contents of the post because you have written twice 739 when you clearly meant 789!
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
kaitak
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:31 pm

Yes, you'll give poor old Airbus a heart attack; as if they didn't have enough problems without losing an existing customer!

Very interesting news, particularly about the seat design, but sleeping in an Economy seat will always be, well, a nightmare ...
 
hz747300
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:43 pm

Damn, I was all excited. After moving to Australia, I was ecstatic that I would be able to fly on the 739!!!

Hey, the 789 will be nice too.
Keep on truckin'...
 
PIA777
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:01 pm

What does one do for 18 Hrs? My butt would go numb!!!

PIA777
GO CUBS!!
 
777ER
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:09 pm

There was me thinking the B739 could join the fleet, oh well. If NZ join the ultra long haul market (A345 and B772LR) then it would have good benfits for NZ.
 
zvezda
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:54 pm

Actually, AKL-LHR and LHR-AKL should both be easy with the B777-200LR (much easier than SYD-LHR). Both would be flown eastbound, of course.
 
kiwiandrew

Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Mon Aug 01, 2005 4:03 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 6):
Actually, AKL-LHR and LHR-AKL should both be easy with the B777-200LR (much easier than SYD-LHR). Both would be flown eastbound, of course.

I think you might be mistaken here - AKL -LHR is nearly 1000 nm longer than SYD-LHR even by the shortest great circle route

( according to Great Circle Mapper SYD-LHR is 10573 while AKL-LHR clocks in at 11404 )
 
hz747300
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Mon Aug 01, 2005 4:05 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 7):
Quoting Zvezda (Reply 6):
Actually, AKL-LHR and LHR-AKL should both be easy with the B777-200LR (much easier than SYD-LHR). Both would be flown eastbound, of course.

I think you might be mistaken here - AKL -LHR is nearly 1000 nm longer than SYD-LHR even by the shortest great circle route

( according to Great Circle Mapper SYD-LHR is 10573 while AKL-LHR clocks in at 11404 )

But the wind man, you forgot about the wind, better wind advantage from AKL.
Keep on truckin'...
 
zonky
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Mon Aug 01, 2005 4:33 pm

I honestly don't believe there is the demand for AKL-LHR premium, nonstop service.

I'm even more dubious about JFk/EWR-AKL. Purchasing 2 772LR seems too huge a gamble for a traditionally risk-adverse (small) airline like Air NZ.
 
B787
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Mon Aug 01, 2005 4:50 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 2):
sleeping in an Economy seat will always be, well, a nightmare ...

You can sleep?  Smile

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 8):
But the wind man, you forgot about the wind, better wind advantage from AKL.

What about return...?
 
MidnightMike
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:47 pm

Quoting PIA777 (Reply 4):
What does one do for 18 Hrs? My butt would go numb!!!

PIA777

Half of bottle of sleeping pills for the trip over, & the other half for the trip back
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NZ107
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Mon Aug 01, 2005 6:13 pm

Quoting Squirrel83 (Thread starter):
Air New Zealand is more likely to rely on the smaller long range 787-9 to eventually open new routes as far afield as India, Canada and the eastern US.

Hmm... India? I'd think of South America before India. Do you mean Canadian cities around the Great Lakes? Would Air NZ trust Air Canada to keep flying? If they can, I wouldn't think we'd be seeing Air NZ flying into Canada for quite a while..

Quoting Zonky (Reply 9):
I honestly don't believe there is the demand for AKL-LHR premium, nonstop service.

So does that mean that you like stopping over in LAX?
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
zonky
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Mon Aug 01, 2005 6:28 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 12):
So does that mean that you like stopping over in LAX?

Not at all. Do i see sufficient demand for a premium service (let's assume you'd have to look at a 2.5 class 772 config with 34" econ minimum) out of New Zealand? No. Not without destroying yields on the 744 stoppers. Which have just been refitting at huge cost to Air NZ.

The only two airlines in a postition to compete with NZ (hub busting) are VS or BA. Are they going to do it? No. There is hardly the demand not competition to justify the route, and given the additional range issues, the service would no doubt be payload restricted.
 
zonky
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Mon Aug 01, 2005 6:33 pm

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 8):
But the wind man, you forgot about the wind, better wind advantage from AKL.

But the shortest route is westbound from AKL-LHR - why doesn't it hit the same QF problems?
 
zvezda
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Mon Aug 01, 2005 6:46 pm

Quoting Zonky (Reply 14):
But the shortest route is westbound from AKL-LHR - why doesn't it hit the same QF problems?

The easiest way to fly LHR-SYD, LHR-AKL, and AKL-SYD is eastbound. The easiest way to fly SYD-LHR is westbound. AKL-LHR eastbound is only 100nm further eastbound than westbound, so the wind advantage more than overcomes the small additional distance. SYD-LHR is more than 1000nm further eastbound than westbound, so the wind advantage of flying eastbound doesn't overcome the additional distance.
 
isuA380B777
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:09 pm

AKL - NYC ?? Would this be a profitable route for ANZ? or are they trying to get to LHR or any other europian city via NYC?

Regards
Isu
 
ZKSUJ
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:23 pm

With the 777LR, what about JNB? Sounds interesting enough I guess. Was a bit shocked or suprised when I read 737-900 though I must admit.  Smile
 
AirNZ
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:06 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15)

"The easiest way to fly LHR-SYD, LHR-AKL, and AKL-SYD is eastbound"

Now, you are joking, right........or do you seriously expect me to fly from Auckland to Sydney eastbound????
Hmmm! be quite an interesting trip that, and what a/c do you suggest.
Flown:F27/TU134/Viscount/Trident/BAC111/727/737/747/757/767/777/300/310/320/321/330/340/DC9/DC10/Dash8/Shorts330/BAe146
 
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NZ107
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:32 pm

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 18):
or do you seriously expect me to fly from Auckland to Sydney eastbound????
Hmmm! be quite an interesting trip that, and what a/c do you suggest.

Look at Emirates' crazy schedules then.. If you can't get to Sydney on that day on F or J class, there's an option there to spend NZD$16,000 to fly on the AKL-MEL-DXB-BKK-SYD flight... That's what I call crazy! Why not just wait an extra day and save about $14,000? This itinary is close enough to going eastbound.

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 17):
Was a bit shocked or suprised when I read 737-900 though I must admit

Has Air NZ completed its quota to buy the A320's yet? If not, how many more do they have to buy?
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
Trolley Dolley
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:50 pm

Sorry, I can't believe some of the posts saying that AKL-LON will be easier than SYD-LON because of the winds.  

As already pointed out AKL-LON is a greater distance than SYD-LON. 900nm equates to about 2 hours flying time. Simply looking Boeing's own range charts on www.boeing.com for the 777LR ex LON show that AKL falls well outside the current range circle. The range charts from NYC show that NYC-AKL is right on the limit of what is possible too.  flamed 

Current aircraft cannot reach AKL nonstop whether they fly north, south, east or west from LON.

[Edited 2005-08-02 06:52:30]

[Edited 2005-08-02 06:53:43]
 
777ER
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:14 pm

NZ still have to receive SJs two more A320s then NZ receives the final A320, so 3 more still to come
 
ZKSUJ
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:49 pm

I think they have another 15 or so on option. My pick is that they would back more 320s or even 321s before looking at the 739
 
zvezda
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:09 pm

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 18):
Now, you are joking, right........or do you seriously expect me to fly from Auckland to Sydney eastbound????
Hmmm! be quite an interesting trip that, and what a/c do you suggest.

Sorry, that was a typo. I meant AKL-LHR.

Quoting Trolley Dolley (Reply 20):
Sorry, I can't believe some of the posts saying that AKL-LON will be easier than SYD-LON because of the winds.

You can believe or not. AKL-LHR has a tailwind. SYD-LHR has a headwind.
 
ZKOJH
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:30 pm

'think they have another 15 or SO on option. My pick is that they would back more 320s or even 321s'

most of the airbus options I think when I last looked were for (20) aircraft, if anything a lot of the options will be for A319's, for which they will replace the 733 on domestic runs in about 5 years times , thou there could be some A321 on order as well. ??

But anything from Boeing would be great about now, lets crack into that overbooming CHINA market, that's been talked about SO much, LOL
Vietnam time..
 
HanginOut
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:44 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 12):
Quoting Squirrel83 (Thread starter):
Air New Zealand is more likely to rely on the smaller long range 787-9 to eventually open new routes as far afield as India, Canada and the eastern US.

Hmm... India? I'd think of South America before India. Do you mean Canadian cities around the Great Lakes? Would Air NZ trust Air Canada to keep flying? If they can, I wouldn't think we'd be seeing Air NZ flying into Canada for quite a while..

I don't see the point in NZ flying to Canada, other than YVR. I'm not sure if the demand is there and AC can handle the feed from YVR to points east quite easily. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if AC was thinking about YVR-AKL themselves. I would love to see a NZ 789 in YVR, but I think our kiwi friends would probably love seeing an AC 789 in AKL themselves. Whoever flies the route will undoubtedly codeshare with their Star Alliance partner. Either way it looks as if there will be NZ-Canada flights in the future.  bigthumbsup 

HanginOut
Dreaming of the day I can work for an airline
 
Trolley Dolley
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:07 am

Zvezda. As I fly between New Zealand and Europe twice a year on average, I am well aware of the effects of head/tail winds on these long journeys and which routes offer the shorter flying times.

The assumption about a tailwind ignores the fact that on this journey between hemispheres, a flight passes through jetstreams, doldrums and the ITC. While the overall prevailing winds might be favourable, tailwinds will not apply to the whole journey.

You can believe what you like, but I've based my posting on factual information provided by Boeing. They clearly show that LON-AKL and conversly AKL-LON lies well outside the range of the 777LR. The 777LR has range shortfall of about 900nm on the shortest eastbound LON-AKL route and about a 1300nm shortfall on the eastbound AKL-LON route, to which you were referring. This has already been pointed out by others in this forum.

The reason I can't believe the postings is because of the lack of research into the matter and a disregard to basic geography. SYD is a lot closer to LON than AKL, after all.

Sorry, but the assumptions made by posters that a AKL-LON flight with the current 777LR is somehow possible or even "easier" than a SYD-LON flight are wrong.
 
ZK-NBT
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Boeing & Air NZ Prepare For AKL-NYC, 777LR, 787-9

Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:15 pm

HanginOut

NZ would be more likely to fly to Canada IMO than AC flying to AKL. As much as I would love to see AC aircraft in AKL.

And there is no way that the 772LR can or do AKL-LHR in commercial service.

I may be wrong here but for those of you who say AKL-NYC is marginal, I don't think that is the case. If there was an aircraft that could do the route already in service I think NZ would be looking very closely at it. Definatly a market I think just doesn't make sence to stop in LAX or even PPT really, they are better off using UA from LAX or SFO in the mean time.

I think NZ will look at ORD aswell in future. They might get a fleet of say 5 772LR's.

NZ107

I'd have to say India before South America, but NZ have some expansion plans to a few places so it will be interesting to see what they decide on, remember they have 42 options on Boeing long haul aircraft. I'd say Boeing would be happy to allow NZ to change some of those to 772LR's or 747A, to best suit NZ's needs.

QF go via LAX but perhaps if there was an aircraft they were interested in other than the A345 they would do it from SYD non-stop. Though TN seem to think there is a market with their new SYD-PPT-JFK service. Wonder how thats going?

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