MAH4546
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UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:13 am

United is launching new Caribbean service this winter from Dulles, including new service to Nassau. United serving Nassau will now mean all six legacy carriers fly to the airport.

UA's service to Montego Bay, Punta Cana, and St. Maarten from O'Hare will be joined with by service from Dulles this winter, as well.

UA will be the only non-stop service from Dulles to all four markets, although US Airways flies Washington/Regan-Nassau and Air Jamaica flies Baltimore-Montego Bay.

They are also launching O'Hare-San Jose del Cabo service, and resuming other Denver/O'Hare seasonal holiday routes.

http://prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/storie...story/08-01-2005/0004079607&EDATE=
a.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:27 am

Was somewhat surprised they didnt launch IAD-SXM at the same time as ORD, despite US's operations.

Oh well, good stuff.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
panam330
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:51 am

It's about friggen time. UA neglects the Caribbean because of the partnership with US, and until recently underserved Mexico as well, until Frontier was making a pretty penny out of DEN. They finally added some worthwhile service without someone else doing it first  Wink. Good luck to UA!
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:41 am

IS UA still flying ORD-EZE?
 
TWA902fly
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:43 am

I was unaware UA flew to MBJ out of ORD... i believe that is a new service as well, not just the one from IAD

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
Islandboy
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:44 am

Quote:
United is launching new Caribbean service this winter from Dulles, including new service to Nassau. United serving Nassau will now mean all six legacy carriers fly to the airport.

Woohoo! It's about time United came to NAS. Wonder why they want IAD instead of trying from ORD in the first place. Mah, do you think this is in case B6 decides to start the route? Hopefully DEN may happen as well.

**In the article it says NAS is the second largest destination in the Caribbean. Whose the first? Puerto Rico?

[Edited 2005-08-02 00:46:33]
Looks like the fresh wind has gone stale
 
MAH4546
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:53 am

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 4):
I was unaware UA flew to MBJ out of ORD... i believe that is a new service as well, not just the one from IAD

No, ORD-MBJ was launched last winter.

Quoting Islandboy (Reply 5):
Wonder why they want IAD instead of trying from ORD in the first place

Nassau is an east-coast destination. American Eagle's new O'Hare-Nassau service is more than enough for the market, and may even go seasonal if off-season loads aren't strong.

Quoting Islandboy (Reply 5):
Hopefully DEN may happen as well.

Don't count on it. The market is pretty much non-existant. Nassau is a dominantly east-coast destination. East coasters flock to Nassau in droves, but people on the West Coast barely know it exists. They go to Cabo.

Quoting Islandboy (Reply 5):
**In the article it says NAS is the second largest destination in the Caribbean. Whose the first? Puerto Rico?

Definitley San Juan. Though even United got their geography wrong...Nassau is not in the Caribbean.
a.
 
flyua
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:18 am

Dear MAH4546:

As for Nassau not being in the Caribbean: well, at least we were close!

On United's original website, the "Friendly Skyline" of 1995, Lima was listed as one of our European destinations, and one of our destinations in Brazil was the lovely San Paula.

United's getting there!
 
jmc1975
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:27 am

Now is NOT the time for UAL to be starting this, for they do not have the downstroke to maintain staying power in those markets, much less fund the fixed expenses of setting up a new station. Let's not forget they are in Chapter 11, on the verge of Chapter 7. Now, if they had started these markets back about 1998-1999 or so, instead of diddling around with Billy Franke and threatening to buy America West, they could've been a credible entity in those fine low-yield leisure markets.

[Edited 2005-08-02 03:30:40]
.......
 
MAH4546
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:42 am

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 8):
they could've been a credible entity in those fine low-yield leisure markets.

Many Caribbean stations are anything but low-yield, especially St. Maarten.
a.
 
UA772IAD
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:50 am

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 8):
Now is NOT the time for UAL to be starting this, for they do not have the downstroke to maintain staying power in those markets, much less fund the fixed expenses of setting up a new station. Let's not forget they are in Chapter 11, on the verge of Chapter 7.

No, now IS the time to start, the markets for these destinations are booming, that's why practically every other airline that can, is serving those destinations. And like MAH4546 said above-- the carribean is hardly low yield, especially in the fall and winter.

Also, if you look for UA's quarter report in the forums, you will see that UA is not "on the verge of chapter 7".

Their strength is in their international operations, so why doesnt it make sense to expand? Look at how well their Mexico operations are going...
 
jmc1975
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:19 am

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 10):
Also, if you look for UA's quarter report in the forums, you will see that UA is not "on the verge of chapter 7".

That is inconsequential. The truth is: they lost $1.4 billion last quarter. Period. They ought to be ashamed doing what they've done during their time in Chap. 11 bankruptcy. They've spent so much money, none on which is conducive to a tangible turnaround. They have become a leach to the system, thanks to their upper management. Also, the ARE on the verge on the Chapter 7, however, it will never be public knowledge until immediate liquaidation is announced. Any announcement of Chap.7 prior to liquidation would be devastating to an airline's operations.

[Edited 2005-08-02 04:38:08]
.......
 
hoya
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:53 am

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 11):
The truth is: they lost $1.4 billion last quarter. Period.

Dude, sorry, but you should read the press releases and news stories a bit closer. If you did, you would realize a lot of those losses were non-cash items, involving lease rejections and mostly the pensions being taken over by the PBGC. UA has actually made an operating profit of $48 million for the 2nd quarter, and its cash balance increased to $2.6 billion. UA is nowhere near Chap. 7. Even Michael Boyd, the well know aviation analyst, said that UA will be a 'permanent part' of the aviation industry.


Anyway, it is nice to see UA expanding its network. When I was in Nassau this past March, I did see UA signs and a check-in area. I think its part of their code-share with Gulfstream, but I don't think UA would need to invest too much into setting up a station there as some stuff seems to be prepared for them.
Hoya Saxa!!
 
jmc1975
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:10 pm

Quoting Hoya (Reply 12):
Dude, sorry, but you should read the press releases and news stories a bit closer. If you did, you would realize a lot of those losses were non-cash items, involving lease rejections and mostly the pensions being taken over by the PBGC. UA has actually made an operating profit of $48 million for the 2nd quarter, and its cash balance increased to $2.6 billion. UA is nowhere near Chap. 7. Even Michael Boyd, the well know aviation analyst, said that UA will be a 'permanent part' of the aviation industry.


Anyway, it is nice to see UA expanding its network. When I was in Nassau this past March, I did see UA signs and a check-in area. I think its part of their code-share with Gulfstream, but I don't think UA would need to invest too much into setting up a station there as some stuff seems to be prepared for them.

Sorry. $1.4 billion is $1.4 billion. The numbers just don't add up. Regardless of what Michael Boyd says, money talks. They've got alot of fishy, if not fraudulent accounting going on. It'll be another Enron or Worldcom. As I said earlier, the expansion should've happened pre-2000.....not now.
.......
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:10 pm

Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 3):
IS UA still flying ORD-EZE?

They planned to start it later this year with a 763, however "issues" revolving around leases and certain 767-300's means that will not happen now. UA announced that in late May/early June I believe.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:41 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 14):
They planned to start it later this year with a 763, however "issues" revolving around leases and certain 767-300's means that will not happen now. UA announced that in late May/early June I believe.

Didn't it run for a while, like maybe December or January through pretty recently?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Bicoastal
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:47 pm

Will all of these be Ted flights or mainline?
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
flyua
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:54 pm

StevenUhl777: while nothing's set in stone, it appears the ORD-EZE nonstop returns on December 15th. At least, that's according to Apollo. Also, the second daily IAD-GRU nonstop is still set to begin on October 31st.

Cubsrule: yes, the ORD-EZE flight was running through at least April or May, I believe.

Bicoastal: all of the newly announced flights appear to be mainline! I'm not sure about the new ORD-Los Cabos, though. I'll check on that.
 
flyua
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:58 pm

Bicoastal: yes, ORD-SJD (now I know my Los Cabos airport code!) will be a mainline flight. All newly announced flights out of IAD and ORD will be mainline.
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:01 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 14):

They planned to start it later this year with a 763, however "issues" revolving around leases and certain 767-300's means that will not happen now. UA announced that in late May/early June I believe.

It started in October 2004. Lack of aircraft mean they suspended it last June. It resumes in December.
a.
 
UA744Flagship
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:15 pm

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 13):
Sorry. $1.4 billion is $1.4 billion. The numbers just don't add up.

You're in for a rude awakening if you ever try to finance a business plan.

I suggest taking Accounting 101. Someone in your age bracket should at least understand that with financial accounting, a loss is by no means cash gone.

The numbers do add up; just not in your simplistic world.
no wire hangers!
 
jmc1975
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:07 pm

Quoting UA744Flagship (Reply 20):
The numbers do add up; just not in your simplistic world.

You probably won't be as condescending and hateful once you're standing in that unemployment line. If you lost $1.4billion of someone else's money, you probably would not be living any more. That's just the way it goes.
.......
 
UA772IAD
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:11 pm

JMC1975,
As stated by others, the loss is inconsequential- and due mainly to political reasons- spending $602 million to turn the pension plan over to the federal government (NY TIMES). I suggest you pick up a copy of today's (Sunday's) New York Times. The Sunday Business section has a huge, thurough, well researched article about how Wall Street has damaged United's pension plans. In fact here's the link, it makes good reading-
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/31/business/yourmoney/31pension.html
 
hoya
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:07 pm

Quoting Flyua (Reply 17):
it appears the ORD-EZE nonstop returns on December 15th. At least, that's according to Apollo. Also, the second daily IAD-GRU nonstop is still set to begin on October 31st.

Has UA reallocated 767s to fly these routes, converting them from domestic to international configuration? Or is UA discontinuing some international service to allow for the ORD-EZE and the 2nd IAD-GRU flights? UA stopped ORD-EZE in June due to a shortage of 767s, so from where are the planes coming then?
Hoya Saxa!!
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:27 pm

Quoting Hoya (Reply 24):
Has UA reallocated 767s to fly these routes, converting them from domestic to international configuration? Or is UA discontinuing some international service to allow for the ORD-EZE and the 2nd IAD-GRU flights? UA stopped ORD-EZE in June due to a shortage of 767s, so from where are the planes coming then?

Reduced long-haul flying to other markets, such as Europe, in the winter. The second IAD-GRU flight is the biggest waste of a valuable US-Brazil slot I have ever seen. They should have at least put it at a new gateway...SFO or LAX. IAD-GRU is such a strong performer for UA, but adding so much capacity is going to kill the route's performance. I don't know what UA is thinking, other than taking some temporary losses for the long term benefit of keeping the frequencies.
a.
 
Bicoastal
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:40 pm

UA will easily be able to fill the additional IAD-GRU capacity from IAD. Right now when booking (EZE, too), people often have to go to their 2nd, 3rd, 4th choice of departure and return dates. Flights are often oversold and overbooked. Dulles has the advantage of having the entire USA and Europe as feed for the flights. SFO, to make it a convenient flight, has only the western USA and much of it would require backtracking. Chicago and Dulles are United's best gateways for South America. I'm not sure SFO could fill the planes unless there is a large market in Asia which is willing to change planes at SFO.

Is it true that United is stockpiling LD3 cargo/baggage containers in EZE and GRU in anticipation of occasionally using larger aircraft (777 and 747) to those markets? The 767s use mostly smaller LD2 containers.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
MAH4546
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:07 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 26):
UA will easily be able to fill the additional IAD-GRU capacity from IAD.

No doubt, but yields are going to take a serious beating.
a.
 
UA744Flagship
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:11 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25):
They should have at least put it at a new gateway...SFO or LAX. IAD-GRU is such a strong performer for UA, but adding so much capacity is going to kill the route's performance. I don't know what UA is thinking, other than taking some temporary losses for the long term benefit of keeping the frequencies.

You and me both.

I would have thought LAXGRU would have been perfect to feed the #2 LAXNRT, but that is quickly going away now. Oy vey.
no wire hangers!
 
gigneil
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:19 am

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 13):
They've got alot of fishy, if not fraudulent accounting going on.

That is a wild and unbased accusation on your part.

N
 
Bicoastal
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:20 am

"No doubt, but yields are going to take a serious beating."

I disagree. The high yield traveler, too, is having trouble booking on United's flights. Lots of business traffic between East Coast/Midwest and Brazil/Argentina. I don't see an erosion in yields. Plus United has an aggressive new cargo program. Cargo holds on the new Brazil flight will, too, be full as they are now.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
as739x
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:10 am

This also can be a preemptive move, does UA see US leaving STAR and thier partnership and leaving them no way to get passengers to these places? Just a thought!

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
UA772IAD
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:18 am

Quoting UA744Flagship (Reply 27):
You and me both.

I would have thought LAXGRU would have been perfect to feed the #2 LAXNRT, but that is quickly going away now. Oy vey.

LAX would be nice wouldn't it? What do you mean by it's quickly going away? Is the LAX-NRT run going to be dissolved?

They really need some more planes! I wish the creditors could work with them on that one, but maybe once the skies are clearer....
 
Islandboy
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:51 am

I was thinking besides CDG and FRA, are there any other International Destinations served by the legacy carriers?
Looks like the fresh wind has gone stale
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:58 am

Quoting Islandboy (Reply 32):
I was thinking besides CDG and FRA, are there any other International Destinations served by the legacy carriers?

Huh? Are you asking about from a particular city? The US legacy airlines fly to close to 30 European cities.

Or are you asking for a European airport served by all six legacies? If the latter, then, as you said, it is just CDG and FRA. London is, of course, served by all six, but only UA/AA at LHR and UA doesn't go to LGW.

AMS, FCO, and LGW have five of six.
a.
 
Islandboy
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:07 am

It was the latter. Thanks Mah!
Looks like the fresh wind has gone stale
 
UA772IAD
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:17 am

Quoting Islandboy (Reply 32):
was thinking besides CDG and FRA, are there any other International Destinations served by the legacy carriers?

Do you mean anywhere else? I'll give you UA's
EUROPE:
LHR, FRA, CDG, ZRH, MUC, BRU, AMS (all from IAD, most from ORD and few from JFK)

SOUTH AMERICA:
GRU, EZE, GIG, MVD (Mostly from IAD, or ORD)

LATIN AMERICA/BERMUDA/CARIBBEAN: (From IAD, DEN, SFO)
San Jose, Mexico City, Cozumel, Aruba, Bermuda (Seasonal), Grand Cayman,
San Jose (Costa Rica), Guatamala City, San Salvador

ASIA-AUSTRALIA:
NRT, KIX, NGO, ICN, PEK, PVG, TPE, SIN, BKK, SGN, SYD, MEL (All from either SFO, NRT, HKG, LAX)
--Guangzhou is in the works now.

CANADA: (From DEN?, ORD, IAD, SFO, SEA?, JFK?)
Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver, Winnipeg, Halifax, Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal
 
jmc1975
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:29 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 28):
Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 13):
They've got alot of fishy, if not fraudulent accounting going on.

That is a wild and unbased accusation on your part.

N

Well, it is the polar opposite to legitmate and honest accounting practices. Time will tell which one it really is.
.......
 
hoya
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:01 am

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 36):
Well, it is the polar opposite to legitmate and honest accounting practices.

Huh? UA is being scrutinized heavily by both the bankruptcy court and the creditor's committee. None of them would let UA practice "fishy, if not fraudulent accounting." Fact is UA is improving, made an operating profit this past quarter, analysts are predicting UA's survival, and it is nowhere near Chapter 7. Just look at the facts (closely).

Do we know what equipment UA will be using to its new destinations? Mix of A320/319s and 757s?
Hoya Saxa!!
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:10 am

All routes on the B757-200?
No Vueling No Party
 
MAH4546
Topic Author
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:11 am

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 35):
--Guangzhou is in the works now.

No it's not. Their application was rejected. Without a doubt, UA will be applying again in 2007, though.
a.
 
jmc1975
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:40 am

Quoting Hoya (Reply 37):
Fact is UA is improving, made an operating profit this past quarter, analysts are predicting UA's survival, and it is nowhere near Chapter 7. Just look at the facts (closely).

Exactly. As I said earlier, the executives at UA and the politicians will never let on that Chap.7 is imminent until the day UA announces immediate liquidation.
.......
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:31 am

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 40):
Exactly. As I said earlier, the executives at UA and the politicians will never let on that Chap.7 is imminent until the day UA announces immediate liquidation

You *STILL* don't get it. Do us all a favor and don't post here anymore. Are you the reincarnation of Kahala777 or his best friend?
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
JC5280
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:54 pm

While I really do not agree with JMC1975 99% of the time, I have to agree with him on one point.

None of the higher ups at UA would allow it to leak that UA was very close to Chapter 7 at any point in time. I would create panic. In fact, I have heard directly (not hear-say) from an senior manager (VP or above) that there was at least one instance where UA execs and the legal group went home for the night realizing that UA would not survive the week. Things came together, and UA pulled out of the situation, and have grown stronger since. But it was close, and it was certainly not spoken about outside of this ring until well after the dust settled.
 
jmc1975
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RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:37 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 41):
You *STILL* don't get it. Do us all a favor and don't post here anymore. Are you the reincarnation of Kahala777 or his best friend?

I'm just stating the facts. This is an aviation discussion forum, where all input is and should be accepted. Your suggestion comes across as baised, biggoted and intolerant.

Quoting Jc5280 (Reply 42):
While I really do not agree with JMC1975 99% of the time, I have to agree with him on one point.

I'm glad we can see eye to eye on 1%.  Smile
.......
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:53 pm

Quoting Jc5280 (Reply 42):
None of the higher ups at UA would allow it to leak that UA was very close to Chapter 7 at any point in time. I would create panic. In fact, I have heard directly (not hear-say) from an senior manager (VP or above) that there was at least one instance where UA execs and the legal group went home for the night realizing that UA would not survive the week. Things came together, and UA pulled out of the situation, and have grown stronger since. But it was close, and it was certainly not spoken about outside of this ring until well after the dust settled.

That very well may have been the case a few months back. They're bound to confidentiality to not disclose information like that at specific times. Right or wrong, that's the way it is.

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 43):
I'm just stating the facts. This is an aviation discussion forum, where all input is and should be accepted. Your suggestion comes across as baised, biggoted and intolerant.

But those ARE NOT the facts right now! They are nowhere near Ch. 7 at this current moment!!!! $1.4B of that Q2 loss was restructuring and non-cash charges. I'm going to stop there, because saying more would be a lost cause with you.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
JC5280
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:45 pm

Absolutely. UA is certainly not close to that kind of situation now as things have improved dramatically. But it was close. I am sure many companies have been on the edge of financial disaster in the past and have not let employees/public/etc know.
 
jmc1975
Posts: 2903
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:54 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 44):
$1.4B of that Q2 loss was restructuring and non-cash charges.

True. But the $1.4B will have to paid at some point. Somebody has to pay the piper. They won't get off scott free.

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 44):
I'm going to stop there, because saying more would be a lost cause with you.

It's not so much a lost cause other than just the shear frustration you and your fellow co-workers at UA must be feeling. A news release came out today stating a proposed Chap.11 emergence in 2006. It really gets to be silly!
.......
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:20 pm

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 46):
It's not so much a lost cause other than just the shear frustration you and your fellow co-workers at UA must be feeling. A news release came out today stating a proposed Chap.11 emergence in 2006. It really gets to be silly!

I used to work for UA in '95 and '96. My Dad retired from there a few years ago. I don't work in the industry, just follow it closely, and combined with my business background, I understand a lot of what's going on, plus learning a lot more in the process.

I would rather see UA stay in Ch. 11 (this time, at the creditor's request) than leave too early and not get everything done, and then have to re-file at a later date.

I strongly support those current workers at UA who are doing their best to get through a bad situation and help the company emerge and move beyond all this. For those who are burned out, I understand, but I would hope they will graciously move on so that those who want to succeed, can, and not be a negative draw on morale on others.

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 46):
But the $1.4B will have to paid at some point. Somebody has to pay the piper. They won't get off scott free

$600mm approx. is due to shifting of the pension liability. UA won't pay, but the PGBC will. The rest relates to rejection of contracts pertaining to aircraft leases, etc.

The press release: http://www.united.com/press/detail/0,6862,53081,00.html will explain more as well.

Going forward, watch the following trends, at UA and other carriers like DL, NW, AA, CO, etc.:
- unrestricted cash balance (should increase!)
- operating performance (delays, on-time performance, mishandled bags, etc.)
- operating income (this is the core business, excluding special accounting items)
- mainline revenue and cost trends
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
Islandboy
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 5:07 am

RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:55 am

Im just curious as to why United decided to enter NAS after all this time. I know that they codeshare with US who pretty much runs about 6-8 flights from the east coast. I know its been rumored that B6 would like to start services from IAD to NAS and with the E190's coming online..It would have been a real possibility to test out the market. So the next question; is United trying to get in the market to block B6?
Looks like the fresh wind has gone stale
 
baw716
Posts: 1461
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:02 pm

RE: UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD

Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:18 pm

They are going to take on AA in the Caribbean? That's bold. They'll get killed.
UA forgets that AA and UA run neck in neck in market share at O'Hare with UA slightly ahead of AA. This is just the kind of kick in the butt AA needs to add more capacity to ORD. AA is just too big in the Caribbean for UA to try to take them on from IAD and ORD.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998

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