king
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Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:26 am

Any speculations?

Airline to look at expanding its Frontier
By Kelly Yamanouchi
Denver Post Staff Writer



Frontier Airlines will again look at expanding beyond its Denver hub, chief executive Jeff Potter said Friday.

Nearly all of Frontier's flights go to or from Denver. The only exceptions are flights to Mexico from Salt Lake City, Kansas City, Mo., St. Louis and Nashville, Tenn.

"We will continue to focus on developing the Denver hub but will also be pursuing point-to-point opportunities that pose limited financial risk for us," Potter said in an earnings conference call. He did not reveal what cities Frontier may serve.

Frontier stepped out of its Denver comfort zone last year when it started and quit an unsuccessful Los Angeles operation.

Stepped-up competition from larger carriers left Frontier with an excess of empty seats on planes.

But Frontier spokesman Joe Hodas said there are "plenty of great opportunities outside of Denver."

"We're gaining a pretty critical mass and awareness

outside of Denver, so it's time to leverage that reputation outside of Denver," he said.
Hodas said flights outside the Denver hub can also help to expand the way passengers are routed and increase the rate of aircraft use.

Separately, Frontier chief financial officer Paul Tate said the April snowstorm that led to canceled and delayed flights cost the airline $546,000 in operating expenses.
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:31 am

F9 continues to impress me. I have flown 21 segments to/from DEN and BNA since May 9th, with no delays over 15 minutes and several 15 minute early arrivals.

The staff are great, the planes are very clean, and the DirectTV is very reliable. I hope some more cities get to enjoy the F9 experience soon!

I was leaving DEN last Thursday and there were 2 gate agents serving up a huge cake at A31, I asked what the occassion was and found out it was a Captain's last flight before retirement. Talk about a class act!
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atrude777
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:32 am

STL WANTS YOU!! :-d

Alex
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drerx7
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:32 am

I can barely think of stations they could open up that they wouldn't be vehemently fought. Of course I'd like to see some routes out of my home here in Houston. I'm surprised they chose IAH over HOU for Houston service. I would say Dallas is ripe for extended service but AA will run them out of town.
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luv2fly
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:34 am

My take would be some Midwest to Florida service operated on weekends during the Winter season, also some late night flights to LAS and red eye returns I could also see.
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:42 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 3):
I can barely think of stations they could open up that they wouldn't be vehemently fought.

I doubt they would go to/from anyone's hub, except maybe DFW. I would guess LAX/MSP last year will be well remembered.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 4):
My take would be some Midwest to Florida

I'll second that. I would expect CAK to figure in there somewhere, eventually, and STL. Perhaps MCI.

On the other coast, I would think SMF, maybe PDX.

Maybe it is easier to work out which cities it probably will not be:

LGA, DCA, ATL, MDW, MKE, MSP, SLC, SEA, SNA, LAS, PHX, ABQ for starters.  Smile

cheers

mariner
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airtran737
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:46 am

How many planes does F9 have? Can they aircraft wise afford to pull airplanes out of DEN and start a focus city somewhere else?
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:48 am

38 A319 and 8 A318 I think with 7 A319's coming on this year.

They will not have to pull planes from DEN.
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:55 am

Total fleet of 49. This is the 42nd A319 - N943FR:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Eric D Smith- Rocky Mountain AvPhotos



and there are 7 x A318.

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 7):
7 A319's coming on this year.

I think those are all here. In the cc last Friday, they said the next aircraft will be coming early in the New Year.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
drerx7
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:57 am

I don't think that they are planning a focus city--just some point to point flights.
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stlgph
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:01 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 2):
STL WANTS YOU!! :-d

yes, STL still wants them. but i doubt Frontier is still that interested. many of the routes STL was trying to get them to start flying are now being flown by USA 3000. i guess we'll see if the new airport director has a good relationship with them or not.
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LambertMan
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:01 am

Interesting, perhaps MSY could be looked at. No extremely dominant player at the airport, and according to mr. tristar the DEN flights do well. I'd like to see it be given a shot.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 5):
I'll second that. I would expect CAK to figure in there somewhere, eventually, and STL. Perhaps MCI.

As far as STL goes, I haven't heard anything floating around in a really long time. But then again, I haven't talked to anybody inside the industry since last spring (minus a run in w/ a couple AA guys). A couple years ago there were rumblings of a focus city, and initial routes to MCO and LGA.

CAK is definitely an interesting proposition, that would surely send the CLE buffs into a suicidal rage.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 5):
LGA, DCA, ATL, MDW, MKE, MSP, SLC, SEA, SNA, LAS, PHX, ABQ for starters.

I think its safe to add LAX to that list. Wink
 
stirling
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:01 am

I am going to put my money on St Louis, or Kansas City.
Even though I wouldn't use my own money to start a hub in either place.

St Louis, may awaken the napping American. How would the Eagle respond?

Kansas City will be a challenge overcoming a design intended for O&D, not a connecting hub.

Salt Lake City? Depends a lot on what Delta does in the next 12 months; focusing the enhancements on ATL. It's been a strong performer since Berg started the hub over a quarter a century ago with Western. Sure, Delta has been forced into down-sizing mainline to partners, no doubt due to Southwest encroachments...but is there really room for a third carrier, even on selected P2P routes?

Nashville? Formidable competition in the incumbent Soutwest. They currently serve nonstop from Music City; SEA, OAK, LAS, ONT, LAX, SAN, PHX, MDW, MCI, AUS, SAT, HOU, MSY, BHM, JAX, MCO, TPA, FLL, RDU, CMH, CLE, DTW, BWI, ISP, BDL, MHT, and PVD.
Quite a few markets, but not EVERY one of the markets....The rest; the biggies, ORD, DFW, DCA, MIA, LGA, are American/Eagle markets....
So what's left?

Indianapolis? Not anymore. City might be overserved if anything.

Columbus? Will someone go back? What about this Skybus..wasn't CMH going to be the base?

Omaha? Des Moines? Wichita? Tulsa? Oklahoma City? Little Rock?
All too small, but nice and central. Like Austin and San Antonio, but maybe too far south to be a transit hub...

DFW? Only if Wright is over-turned and AA is distracted shifting capacity to Love Field. This could be interesting to watch. Wild-Card? Hell, DFW might be the Dark-Horse.
I for one would love to see some viable competition at DFW, since airTran seems to have slowed their North Texas expansion. Is Frontier going to take DFW up on their offer? Hmmm.

New Orleans? When is construction over? I have always thought a city the size of The Crescent City would be at least a focus city for someone...Currently Southwest flys nonstop to OAK, LAS, LAX, SAN, PHX, DAL, HOU, MDW, IND, BNA, JAX, MCO, TPA, FLL, BWI, PHL.
There are still quite a few markets left....

The only markets left are coastal....west and east.

Just thinkin' out loud.....no statistics or hard data was harmed in the formulation of these opinions.
 Wink
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N328KF
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:01 am

I think F9's expansion strategy should include acquisition of B6 and NK.
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ERJ170
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:04 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 3):
I can barely think of stations they could open up that they wouldn't be vehemently fought.

RDU where there are NO DEN flights, NO CUN flights, NO MCI flights, NO LAX flights, NO Mexican flights.. and plenty of opportunity... same can be said for GSO...plenty of opportunities at both..
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stl1326
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:05 am

I'm glad that they are thinking about adding more point to point routes. They are too reliant on DEN. They have a great product and I think they will do very well in the future. I think the cities they added to CUN are good possible cities they will add more routes out of. Also, does anybody know what's wrong with Frontier's website? It has been down for the past two to three days.
 
stirling
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:05 am

Quoting King (Thread starter):
Hodas said flights outside the Denver hub can also help to expand the way passengers are routed and increase the rate of aircraft use.



Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 9):
I don't think that they are planning a focus city--just some point to point flights.

From the wording....it sounds like they are exploring a Denver bypass...or a mini-hub.
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MAH4546
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:07 am

MIA has approached Frontier with hopes of getting a daily to Denver this winter. MIA will waive all landing fees for the first year. Though, keep in mind, MIA is the one that approached Frontier, not the other way around, so that doesn't signify that F9 has any interests. I have no idea if they do.
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drerx7
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:08 am

Like I said--I don't think they are trying to make a transit hub so to speak--they are going for a WN style model. I would say SAT, AUS, MSY are all good choices in addition to the OKCs, MCIs, and what not. SAT in particular as they have a large population base and 'limited' service.
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FA4B6
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:11 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 13):
think F9's expansion strategy should include acquisition of B6 and NK.

I always thought B6 and F9 would make great partners ... but I dont think NK would fit in.

I do think that B6 and F9 should be codeshare buddies or partners somehow.
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:12 am

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 11):
I think its safe to add LAX to that list.

I'm not so certain about that.

I think there will never be an attempt to make LAX a focus city again - and I would guess LAX/MSP is engraved on the CEO's heart. BUT:

He - CEO Potter - has said he would consider restarting some P2P from LAX.

The price of oil blew everything out of the water.

The surprise (to me) of this summer, apart from the success of CAK, has been SFO. It used to be an underperforming city for Frontier, but it is now up to 6 x daily and doing well.

cheers

mariner
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LambertMan
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:16 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 12):



Quoting Stirling (Reply 12):
I am going to put my money on St Louis, or Kansas City.
Even though I wouldn't use my own money to start a hub in either place.

St Louis, may awaken the napping American. How would the Eagle respond?

Kansas City will be a challenge overcoming a design intended for O&D, not a connecting hub.

As far as I can tell, they are looking at more of a point to point operation. So location is less important than you may think.

MSY definitely stands a decent shot, IMO. Indianapolis would have been prime for F9 about 1 year ago, as TZ was on the way out and NW on the way in.

In St. Louis, AA's reaction to any F9 additions have been decreasing STL-DEN from 7 daily down to 4 daily, and now back to 6 daily. Doesn't really seem like they would fight for St. Louis that hard, as they could surely use those planes to help another one of their important markets.

MCI, through it all, could really be the best option. Even though WN would be a pest, I think it could be done.

I just have a feeling that if something is done, it won't be out west.
 
PVD757
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:20 am

STL-PVD?

MSY-PVD?

Ah heck, anywhere to PVD on F9 would be fine...
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:21 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 14):
RDU where there are NO DEN flights,

Apparently Frontier has had "preliminary discussions" with RDU.

I have no idea what that means.  Smile

cheers

mariner
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dutchjet
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:25 am

After the LAX experience, I do not think that Frontier wants to go head to head with a legacy carrier and/or attempt to invade a hub city with an established legacy carrier. Its simply asking for trouble; as much as STL would probably welcome Frontier with open arms, why get into a battle with AA when there are other opportunities avaiable.

Kansas City is one choice - while MCI is poorly designed as a connecting hub, point to point routes out of MCI could likely be developed and Frontier could offer limited connections at MCI.

Another thought is New Orleans. Stuck between ATL, DFW, IAH and MEM, all hubs for legacy carriers, New Orleans is overlooked and could probably support more service to more cities. Out of MSY, Frontier could focus on connections to the west coast and MSY could be interesting as a gateway to the Mexican caribbean (Frontier does like CUN) and possibly some island destinations.

It will be interesting to see what Frontier comes up with.
 
goodmanr
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:32 am

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 1):
F9 continues to impress me. I have flown 21 segments to/from DEN and BNA since May 9th, with no delays over 15 minutes and several 15 minute early arrivals.

The staff are great, the planes are very clean, and the DirectTV is very reliable. I hope some more cities get to enjoy the F9 experience soon!


I've only flown six or so times of F9, all DCA-DEN but couldn't agree more. The seats are comfy, the planes are clean, the service great and they haven't damaged my skis yet!!!
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stlgph
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:32 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 12):
St Louis, may awaken the napping American. How would the Eagle respond?

I have a feeling that in St. Louis, AA would generally put up a "For Sale" sign to the highest bidder.

a few point to point routes would be a great way for them to test the waters. i dont see them particularly jumping on everything full throttle ahead. then again, may be wrong. we shall see.
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casinterest
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:42 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 23):

Apparently Frontier has had "preliminary discussions" with RDU.

It would be interesting to see what was discussed especially since ERJ is correct.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 14):
RDU where there are NO DEN flights, NO CUN flights, NO MCI flights, NO LAX flights, NO Mexican flights.. and plenty of opportunity... same can be said for GSO...plenty of opportunities at both

How many planes could they devote to RDU, and what kind of future could be in it for them?

RDU would present an interesting Eastern position for flights to the ......Carribbean....

just saying.

I hope for some DEN, LAX, Mexico flights from RDU. They could own that market at RDU
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MAH4546
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:53 am

Quoting CASInterest (Reply 27):
RDU would present an interesting Eastern position for flights to the ......Carribbean....

Frontier would do great in Raleigh. Denver and Cancun service could proove to be a winner. Though Caribbean service from Raleigh? It would not work.
a.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:03 am

I wish Frontier would open up to the mountain towns in Colorado, they bill themselves as Denver's hometown airline yet when I need to commute to any of the mountain towns, I have to take United, or get canned onto Great Lakes (which still doesn't serve the mid-sized mountain towns of Vail, Aspen, Gunnison, or Durango).
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JayDavis
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:16 am

DLKAPA,

Do you really think F9 could turn a profit by flying into Vail, Aspen, Gunnison or Durango? I doubt it. Also, can an Airbus even make the in/out approach into Aspen and Vail? I remember Aspen had Convairs and Bae-146's for those smaller skiing communities.

AirTran sucks at DFW, they told me when I was doing some contracting work for them that they would ramp up to 30 or 40 flights a day with many more destinations.............that ain't happening..........

Love to see more F9 jets at DFW !!

Jay
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:18 am

I was hoping someone would get the hint that these are all good Q400 cities... and I hear Horizon has a few  Wink But that's just my pipe dream because I know an A319 ain't getting into Aspen, but it can operate out of Vail, UA had an A320 run DEN-EGE last winter.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
MAH4546
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:20 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 31):
but it can operate out of Vail, UA had an A320 run DEN-EGE last winter.

Vail gets bigger than just A320s. American Airlines sends 757s from Vail as far east as LaGuardia and Miami.
a.
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:31 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 8):
I think those are all here. In the cc last Friday, they said the next aircraft will be coming early in the New Year.

cheers

mariner

I meant this fiscal year which just started. Sorry should have specified  Smile

I commute to DEN weekly right now and there is a FO that is pretty high up in seniority that told me they are getting 6 more A319's this fiscal year.
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DLKAPA
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:43 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 32):

Vail gets bigger than just A320s. American Airlines sends 757s from Vail as far east as LaGuardia and Miami.

Yeah, all the Legacy's serve Vail in the winter with 757s to their respective hubs. Gunnison also gets a 757 (Delta) along with 737's (Continental), A320 (United), and Jungle Jets (Continental Express), Montrose gets MD-80s (AA), 737s (Continental), and Jungle Jets (Coex), and I think Steamboat Springs also gets a couple 757's.
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ERJ170
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:01 am

Quoting CASInterest (Reply 27):
How many planes could they devote to RDU, and what kind of future could be in it for them?

RDU would present an interesting Eastern position for flights to the ......Carribbean....

I would hope for 3 .. 1 to do a 2x DEN/1x MCI.. 1 to do a 2x LAX, 1 to do a 1x CUN/MEX

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
Frontier would do great in Raleigh. Denver and Cancun service could proove to be a winner. Though Caribbean service from Raleigh? It would not work.

IF, and that is a big if, Caribbean service would be initiated.. I couldn't see any places which would work daily.. I would see 3-4x weekly service for any of the following, however.. NAS, SJU, MBJ, or maybe STT/AUA.. but those last 2 are stretching..
Aiming High and going far..
 
PHXinterrupted
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:15 am

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 1):
F9 continues to impress me. I have flown 21 segments to/from DEN and BNA since May 9th, with no delays over 15 minutes and several 15 minute early arrivals.

Funny, I completed 18 segments between DEN and PHX from mid 2003 to mid 2004 and roughly 60 percent of those flights were more than 15 minutes late.
Keepin' it real.
 
zotan
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:44 am

Quoting King (Thread starter):
F9 continues to impress me. I have flown 21 segments to/from DEN and BNA since May 9th, with no delays over 15 minutes and several 15 minute early arrivals.

My last two flights with them have both been delayed over 30 minutes. No problem though; they are a great airline! After my most recent flight with them (DEN-SAN), I went up into the cockpit and had a great chat with the F/O. I was in there for probably 20 minutes (sitting in what better place than the Captains Seat)

Id love to see them have some flights to Hawaii from maybe LAX or anothe airport in Southern Califoria. There A319's are already ETOP's rated correct?
 
quickmover
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:00 am

The best thing that could happen to F9 expansion wise would be to forget overflying DEN for now and grab more DEN gates. Unfortunately, UAL seems more than willing to squat on their A gates while their B gates are not even close to being totally utilized. Just adding some more frequency to the high load cities would generate the most profits and utilize several aircraft next year, with the least risk.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:05 am

Quoting ZOTAN (Reply 37):
There A319's are already ETOP's rated correct?

Nope.
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MSYtristar
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:19 am

Well i'll just say that the traffic is here for some point-to-point from MSY. The runway construction should be complete by October at the latest, so weight restricted flights should no longer be a problem. F9 uses an international gate in MSY, so it would be very easy as far as customs clearance and what not if flights to CUN, etc, ever materialize. I think something like FLL-MSY-SEA would make a killing. Our 2nd DEN flight comes back in December...would be nice to see another city added...lord knows we have more than enough ticket counter space and gate space. We have more ticket counter space here than FL does, and they are running 5 dailies!

Someone told me about a week ago that MSY got its 2nd flight cancelled "becuase nobody goes there during the summer". Funny, we're averaging an 89% load factor so far this summer. Not bad for a "seasonal" market.
 
LambertMan
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:20 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 35):
I would hope for 3 .. 1 to do a 2x DEN/1x MCI.. 1 to do a 2x LAX, 1 to do a 1x CUN/MEX

Cancun is fairly reasonable, but Meixco City? I don't think so.

Kansas City didn't work for WN, chances are it won't for F9.

As far as Caribbean goes, notice he says that the routes should pose limited financial risk in his statement. Running 10% full A319's to destinations like SJU certainly do not fit that criteria. If they were to start a focus city from RDU, it would be run of the mill destinations. Then they would count on marketing, pricing, and the better product that they currently offer to fill the seats.

Personally, I'm hoping for New Orleans. I think that is the best alternative to DEN at this point in time. I think there are several destinations that are worth covering with service levels that could sustain a second or third carrier.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:26 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 38):
and grab more DEN gates.

If they could they would.

United has agreed to give up the two gates that were temporarily (two years) subleased to Frontier - for $5 million each - but they're still sitting on their other A others.

cheers

mariner
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ERJ170
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:36 am

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 41):
Kansas City didn't work for WN, chances are it won't for F9.

Perhaps enough time has passed that a 1x daily would work..

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 41):
Running 10% full A319's to destinations like SJU certainly do not fit that criteria.

San Juan is actually a good O&D station for RDU. I think it runs around the 200 daily average range.. or somewhere like that.. not good enough for a AA 757, but enough for a F9 319.. should they decide to fly to SJU (which I would not expect RDU to be the initial city-pair).

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 41):
If they were to start a focus city from RDU, it would be run of the mill destinations.

I don't think it would be a focus city.. just perhaps 2 flights to DEN, and hopefully 1 to LAX, 1 to CUN, and perhaps 1 to somewhere else as part of the P2P campaign. As far as run of the mill.. they are too throughly covered.. The only reason I would see someone try flights to the run of the mill places (NYC, CHI, WAS) was if they were starting a new hub at RDU. And I doubt that would be anybody.
Aiming High and going far..
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24560
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:40 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 43):
Perhaps enough time has passed that a 1x daily would work..

No. The problem in the first place was that it was 1x daily. A market for MCI-RDU exists in 2-3x daily RJ service, not a daily A319, which would never make money. If, say, Northwest were to start an MCI focus city, then RDU-MCI would make perfect sense.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 43):

San Juan is actually a good O&D station for RDU. I think it runs around the 200 daily average range.. or somewhere like that.. not good enough for a AA 757,

It wasn't good enough for an AA 737-800 despite the fact that AA runs a hub in San Juan and has a large operation in Raleigh. The AA service lasted less than six months at a time when AA was running more post-hub RDU service than ever before.
a.
 
HPRamper
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:43 am

Everyone keeps talking in hub terms. F9 says it's to be point-to-point so who cares if an airport design can't handle hub ops. I think Frontier would have a very good chance in a lot of the underserved Midwest cities...especially those with mainly legacy carrier service. MCI immediately comes to mind as does OMA, ICT and STL although STL would be tougher than the others to get a good foothold. MSY is a good pick, possibly OKC? How about moving in on MEM if and when NW shrinks ops there?
 
Jetmek319
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 8:02 am

RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:52 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 8):
I think those are all here. In the cc last Friday, they said the next aircraft will be coming early in the New Year.

That darn fiscal year thing! In CALENDER year 2006 we are scheduled for 7, all A319's. starting in early March, ending in mid-August.

Jetmek319
Never, ever moon a werewolf !!
 
flyibaby
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:21 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 14):
RDU where there are NO DEN flights, NO CUN flights, NO MCI flights, NO LAX flights, NO Mexican flights.. and plenty of opportunity... same can be said for GSO...plenty of opportunities at both..

I have a feeling for once that you hit the nail on the head. But I bet that nail only includes RDU-DEN And RDU-LAX. Rumors from RDU are that they plan to run an operation similar to HP's with only a two city operation off of one gate, and run from gate A-12. DL has been using the jetway, but DH moved gate podiums to accomodate another carrier there.

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 21):
MCI, through it all, could really be the best option. Even though WN would be a pest, I think it could be done

I disagree. It didnt work for Midwest Express. It didn't work for WN. Jeff Potter was CEO at Vanguard between his stints at F9, which was also hubbed at MCI, and I seriously doubt he sees any future there either.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 23):
Apparently Frontier has had "preliminary discussions" with RDU.

I have no idea what that means.

It was an dog and pony show from RDU. They wanted to show that they can accomodate F9, and also give them the opportunity to see the new state of the art terminial being constructed.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 43):
San Juan is actually a good O&D station for RDU. I think it runs around the 200 daily average range.. or somewhere like that.. not good enough for a AA 757, but enough for a F9 319.. should they decide to fly to SJU (which I would not expect RDU to be the initial city-pair

No. Those numbers although possibly true, are distorted. No carrier will run the route unless a contract is sought for some reason or another. Besides which, I know F9 runs Mexico service, but are their 319's overwater approved? If not, even getting the exemption to fly, what is it, 180NM off the coast and practically island hopping their way down would take forever and be an entire waste of an aircraft that they could route RDU-LAX-DEN-RDU-DEN
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
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RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:25 am

I beleive 901FR to 910FR are over water planes (NOT ETOPS) just over-water (rafts etc) the rest are not to be used over water.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
LambertMan
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Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: Frontier Considers Expanding Beyond DEN

Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:33 am

Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 47):
I disagree. It didnt work for Midwest Express. It didn't work for WN. Jeff Potter was CEO at Vanguard between his stints at F9, which was also hubbed at MCI, and I seriously doubt he sees any future there either.

See my previous post where I said that they aren't looking for a connecting hub. I know they are looking for a p2p operation, and that is why I think that MCI could be a good option as well as MSY.

Whatever you are referring to is working for Midwest. Last I checked, they had been adding flights to MCI not subtracting.

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