squirrel83
Posts: 1219
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 12:28 pm

JAL To Cut Routes

Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:37 am

Japan Airlines Cuts Unprofitable Routes

Japan Airlines has announced a net loss of ¥38.4 billion for the quarter and a major cut of unprofitable international routes.

Among the routes being cut (and reduced):

* Fukuoka/Honolulu -- Cut effective Oct. 15
* Osaka/Honolulu -- Reduced from twice daily to once daily Oct. 1
* Fukuoka/Hong Kong -- Cut effective Oct. 3
* Tokyo/Saipan -- Cut effective Oct. 4
* Osaka/Saipan -- Cut effective Oct. 4
* Nagoya/Guam -- Cut effective Oct. 3
* Fukuoka/Seoul -- Cut effective Oct. 3
* Tokyo/Los Angeles -- Reduced from eight to seven flights a week effective Oct. 30
* Tokyo/Taipei/Kaoshiung -- A new direct flight between Tokyo and Kaoshiung starting Nov. 1
* Osaka/Denpasar-Bali/Jakarta/Osaka -- A new direct flight between Osaka and Denpasar starting Oct. 1

Japan Airlines also is adding a fifth Tokyo/Hong Kong cargo flight.
A346, 7E7, 747, 777, Sonic Cruiser
 
BandA
Posts: 318
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:34 am

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:46 am

oh THANK GOD! I topic got me all panicked!!

I hope they never cut YVR-NRT & NRT-DEL I have no clue about JAL's profitability on these routes.
"They [Terrorists] never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - GWB
 
6thfreedom
Posts: 2615
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:09 am

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:19 am

Worth noting that NRT-BNE services will be handed over to JALways, JAL's low cost long haul subsidiary.
 
United Airline
Posts: 8766
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:06 pm

Quoting BandA (Reply 1):
I hope they never cut YVR-NRT & NRT-DEL I have no clue about JAL's profitability on these routes.

I don't think they will. From what I heard YVR-NRT runs out full from time to time and it is doing very well. A lot of ex-Hong Kong people or visitors from Hong Kong visiting friends/relatives in Vancouver take JAL and transit through NRT to/from YVR.
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2563
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:31 pm

Just because a flight goes out full means squat from a profitability stand-point unless one is an accountant at JAL.
What I can say is that JL's entire int'l flight ops are only break-even (currently). Its the domestic routes that bring in steady revenue and profits.

Some routes do good and some not so. Its highly speculative but I suspect most leisure routes (eg. Saipan, even HNL) are probably marginal or operating at a significant loss, as exemplified by JL's route cuts announced now and in the past.

The reason the Saipan routes were cut is that the flights often were full on weekends but very empty on weekdays. Many leisure flights in the future will go on a charter basis or pax connected thru NGO, KIX or NRT from provincial airports.
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4299
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:37 pm

Is KIX-BNE-SYD-KIX still unchanged?

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
Airbus Lover
Posts: 3163
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2000 10:29 pm

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:27 pm

I have reasons to believe that the YVR route is not loss-making for JAL and will be here to stay for time to come. The MEX extension is definitely helping the bottom line.
 
6thfreedom
Posts: 2615
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:09 am

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:06 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 5):
Is KIX-BNE-SYD-KIX still unchanged?

I believe so. Only NRT-BNE was listed as being handed over to JALways.

It would make sense to leave the NRT-SYD and KIX-BNE-SYD flights the same ie. JAL, as it provides crewing efficiencies. Both services operated on B744.
 
ktachiya
Posts: 1500
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:54 am

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:20 pm

Quoting Airbus Lover (Reply 6):
I have reasons to believe that the YVR route is not loss-making for JAL and will be here to stay for time to come. The MEX extension is definitely helping the bottom line.

Yes, I would like to believe this. But even if the plane is full of Y pax, if the C is empty, there is no profitability. I guess the MEX flight really adds onto the revenue though.

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 4):
What I can say is that JL's entire int'l flight ops are only break-even (currently).

Sorta agree. But I guess the routes to JFK, GRU, and the double daily ORD routes are doing fairly well.

Now, I hope they don't cause any more critical errors in the coming months to lower the reputation of the company again.
Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:20 pm

JAL's popularity has also not been too high with all the shotty maintenance. I have met people who say they are just not going to fly JL till they have thier maintenance right.

I can understand why they are cutting some of these routes. So many seats are sold through the package tour companies like JTB...so they are dirt cheap and airlines are just not making anything. People don't seem to know how to travel without a package tour. Most are rip offs anyway.

I am surprised they haven't cut NGO-CDG. It can't be going out full and I doubt there are many full fare payers on it. Loosing the GUM flight is not big. NW will start in October. Would not be surprised if JL feeds it a little. JL needs to bring back NGO-LAX.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:24 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9):
I am surprised they haven't cut NGO-CDG. It can't be going out full and I doubt there are many full fare payers on it.

Just to remind you that a couple of months ago JAL signed a partnership agreement with Brazil's TAM to codeshare on the route GRU-CDG-NGO, by which JAL operates CDG-NGO and TAM GRU-CDG. This could provide some sustainability to JAL's CDG-NGO flights. As you know, traffic Brazil-Japan is intense with JAL and RG flying direct flights between both countries.

Rgs,
 
Billy
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2000 11:18 pm

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:27 pm

I have spoken to JAL about their YVR-MEX operation. It costs them a firtune as they have a low frequency on the route. Crew costs are high because they have to base crew in YVR. It gets very low yield and the Mexicans have blocked any expansion to the schedule. Note it was one of the longest routes that still operated the 743 until recently.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4870
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:59 pm

6thfreedom, KIX-BNE-SYD is a 743.

They should come back to AKL year round, even if it is JALways. They have charters from October to December and there was 1 about 10 days ago to help move PAX affected by the Air NZ strike.
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:56 pm

Quoting Billy (Reply 11):
Note it was one of the longest routes that still operated the 743 until recently.

If I'm not mistaken, JAL operates the longest route in the world: NRT-JFK-GRU. I'm sure the situation is different from MEX: 1) JL's crew could rotate with JFK's flights; 2) crew cost based in GRU is not high, and part of JL's crew on the route is Brazilian-based anyway; 3) demand is high, and high-yielding. Still, with TAM starting flight JFK-GRU as of Octover, maybe JAL will discontinue the leg JFK-GRU and codeshare it with TAM...any views?

Rgs,
 
fraspotter
Posts: 1972
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 8:12 pm

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:23 am

I'm glad they are keeping the NRT-FRA route as well... However, I have no idea about JAL's profitability on this route. Love those 744's...
"Drunk drivers run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
 
KL808
Posts: 1534
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 3:49 am

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:38 am

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

NRT-MNL-NRT on JALway's.

you must be kidding me. What a stinking shame.

Ill be switching to CX the next time I fly back to MNL instead of JL.

errrrrr

Drew
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
diesel33
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:28 am

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:55 am

Quoting KL808 (Reply 15):
NRT-MNL-NRT on JALway's.

Where did you get that info?

What is the difference between JAL and JALway's?

Diesel33
 
EIN145
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:15 pm

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:56 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 9):
JAL's popularity has also not been too high with all the shotty maintenance. I have met people who say they are just not going to fly JL till they have thier maintenance right.

I would be one such person. I booked JL and had a very positive experience with them, and while I would love to travel with them again the bad publicity over safety/maintenance issues puts me right off.

I think changing the busy NRT-BNE route to JALWays would be a mistake, more then one or two leisure pax could be put off by those shabby looking 742s.
 
KL808
Posts: 1534
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 3:49 am

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:02 am

Quoting Diesel33 (Reply 16):
Where did you get that info?

Service will change starting October 1st.

Source: www.justplanes.com

Quoting Diesel33 (Reply 16):
What is the difference between JAL and JALway's?

I believe the big difference is that they don't offer F in their flights, just C/J and Y. And I think there are no PTV's in Y. Service is probably not as good as JL.

Drew
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
diesel33
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:28 am

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:10 am

Quoting KL808 (Reply 18):
I believe the big difference is that they don't offer F in their flights, just C/J and Y. And I think there are no PTV's in Y. Service is probably not as good as JL.

They don't offer First on any of their services to Manila.

I believe when they operate flights to Manila on aircrafts that do have a First Class cabin that it is still with a Business Class service and the seats are offered to their frequent flyers and random people if they are lucky.

Diesel33
 
KL808
Posts: 1534
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 3:49 am

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:14 am

Quoting Diesel33 (Reply 19):
They don't offer First on any of their services to Manila.

I believe when they operate flights to Manila on aircrafts that do have a First Class cabin that it is still with a Business Class service and the seats are offered to their frequent flyers and random people if they are lucky.

Correct, but would you fly old J product to MNL with JO or current product with JL?

Drew
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
diesel33
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:28 am

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:16 am

Quoting KL808 (Reply 20):
Correct, but would you fly old J product to MNL with JO or current product with JL?

Good point. Maybe they should make only their morning dept. from NRT and their afternoon dept. from MNL operated by JO. It is my impression that the afternoon dept. from NRT to MNL has a lot of connectors from the US and Europe and those businessmen travelling that routing can enjoy the JL service the whole way.

Diesel33
 
6thfreedom
Posts: 2615
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:09 am

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:00 am

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 12):
6thfreedom, KIX-BNE-SYD is a 743.

Hi ZK...

Yes, KIX-BNE-SYD IS currently a B743, but will be changed to B744 from the start of the Northern Winter schedule!
 
Lurch
Posts: 721
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:54 am

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:08 am

This link will help those trying to find out which machine is operating which route on a daily basis!

http://www.cargo.jal.co.jp/FLT_DSPe.htm

Once on the site type in the flight number and press enter you can check up to 24 hours ahead on some flights.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:18 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 13):
If I'm not mistaken, JAL operates the longest route in the world: NRT-JFK-GRU.

Air New Zealand's Auckland-Heathrow service via Los Angeles is the world's longest one-plane service, at 11960mi.

Varig's routing to Tokyo also beats out JAL's. NRT-LAX-GRU is 11607mi. NRT-JFK-GRU is "only" 11489mi.
a.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4870
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:59 pm

6thfreedom

I believe this route is currently operated by JALways. KIX-BNE-SYD that is.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: JAL To Cut Routes

Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:54 pm

Quoting Squirrel83 (Thread starter):
* Osaka/Denpasar-Bali/Jakarta/Osaka -- A new direct flight between Osaka and Denpasar starting Oct. 1

The Osaka-Denpasar link was always there, with DC10, then with B772 and now with B763. The difference is that the Jakarta stop will be cancelled out of the KIX-DPS-CGK-KIX route, and the the flight will operate KIX-DPS-KIX, reflecting the specific nature of the KIX-Indonesia market, which is firmly fixed on tourists. The flight will be taken over by JALways.

Mainline JAL operation to Indonesia will be restricted to two daily NRT flight: NRT-CGK with B772 and NRT-DPS with B744.