caribb
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Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:33 am

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...TOW03/TPNational/?query=air+france

Seems like Air France had a really eventful day yesterday... A stowaway was found dead in the landing gear of an A330 arriving from Montreal, the same day their A340 crashed in Toronto.
 
airlinelover
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:31 am

Well this is nto the fault of AF.. If someone wants to basically commit suicide that way, it's sad, but not much can be done..


Chris
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Flying Belgian
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:38 am

The aircraft flew on a FIH-CDG flight before its CDG-YUL-CDG leg. It was F-GZCC who was in Kinshasa saturday night...

May be this is some kind of explanation.

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
captjetblast
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:50 am

How did he get into the landing gear bay?

What if he carried a bomb?

And this happened many times.
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:59 am

Now, why would somebody want to sneak out of Canada?
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caribb
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:04 am

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 1):
Well this is nto the fault of AF

Oh I know it's not Air France's fault but I was just remarking on them having to deal with the effects of a crash as well as an unusual death on one of their planes all on the same day.

The way this was reported on the Canadian news last night suggested the body might have come from the flight prior to the YULCDG leg so if it was Kinshasa maybe it was someone from there trying to get into France but died enroute and ended up going to Canada and back before anyone noticed. Sad really.
 
LJ
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:23 am

Quoting Captjetblast (Reply 3):
How did he get into the landing gear bay?

Security at your local African airport (where most stoways "board" their plane) isn't so good.

Quoting Captjetblast (Reply 3):
What if he carried a bomb?

It would have exploded on the FIH-CDG flight, not on YUL-CDG.

BTW isn't the lack of security at some African airports the reason why airlines from the UIS are not allowed to fly to these airports? Or why direct links with the US are forbidden?
 
Gilligan
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:29 am

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 2):
The aircraft flew on a FIH-CDG flight before its CDG-YUL-CDG leg. It was F-GZCC who was in Kinshasa saturday night

Well that was some kind of walk around by the pilot if he couldn't even spot a dead body in the wheel well! lol
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
caribb
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:53 am

Well that would suggest three pilots missed him... the one flying from Kinshasa, the pilot on CDG-YUL and the the pilot flying YUL-CDG.. as well as all the ground crew... so he (or she) must have been well hidden or sadly squished well up inside the wheel well.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:00 pm

His body could have been there for several flights. Kinshasa (and certainly not YUL) is a logical starting point.

Hopefully, AF will lodge a protest with the Kinshasa airport authority. Not that it will make the slightest bit of difference.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:02 pm

Quoting Caribb (Reply 8):
Well that would suggest three pilots missed him... the one flying from Kinshasa, the pilot on CDG-YUL and the the pilot flying YUL-CDG.. as well as all the ground crew... so he (or she) must have been well hidden or sadly squished well up inside the wheel well.

The space where those people use to hide inside the nose-gear is not the place that pilots/engineers must check during their walk-around. A landing gear of an A330 is quite a big stuff...

The same thing happened tuesday at BRU airport where a Morrocan was found in the nose-gear of a Royal Air Maroc 744 coming from Nador. And six years ago almost days for days two bodies where found in the nose-gear of a Sabena A330 from Conakry.

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
zvezda
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:10 pm

It seems that not a lot of Africans choose to bring appropriate clothes for -50 degree temperatures when flying in the nose gear well. Evolution in action....
 
YULMRS
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:26 pm

I remember seeing a report on French TV a few years ago.

Was about people living near CDG and who "received" two men falling from the sky. In fact those were men falling from the landing gears of AF (and African companies) flights from Africa.
To any North American carrier, send us a regular flight in MRS !!!!!
 
GLA MD11
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:55 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 11):
It seems that not a lot of Africans choose to bring appropriate clothes for -50 degree temperatures when flying in the nose gear well. Evolution in action....

Well, most people have no clue of the temperature up there, even with a "western civilized" education. Ask people around you and you will notice most people think airliners' cabins are cooled down in altitude... whereas they are actually heated...
 
YULMRS
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:40 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 11):
It seems that not a lot of Africans choose to bring appropriate clothes for -50 degree temperatures when flying in the nose gear well. Evolution in action....

You're talking about disparate people leaving their too poor countries, and people able to do incredible things in order to leave those countries ... For them our western way of life is a kind of dream, and their education isn't ours. That's the same thing in some other threads about journalist ... They don't know.

Most people on this website (including me) don't see how the "general public" consider aviation, we are a kind of highly aviation sensitized microcosm ...
To any North American carrier, send us a regular flight in MRS !!!!!
 
halls120
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:44 pm

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 4):
Now, why would somebody want to sneak out of Canada?

LOL!!!
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Flying Belgian
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:29 pm

Quoting YULMRS (Reply 14):
You're talking about disparate people leaving their too poor countries, and people able to do incredible things in order to leave those countries ... For them our western way of life is a kind of dream, and their education isn't ours. That's the same thing in some other threads about journalist ... They don't know.

Most people on this website (including me) don't see how the "general public" consider aviation, we are a kind of highly aviation sensitized microcosm ...

Absolutely right man,

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
boeingpride800
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:27 am

Wouldn't you think this wouldn't be happening anymore after all the times it has happened? Wouldn't there be any more security?
 
IL76TD
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:41 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 4):

Even more, who would leave anywhere for France?
 
pawsleykat
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:25 am

Quote:
Airlinelover.
This is nto the fault of AF.. if someone wants to basically commit suicide that way, it's sad, but not to much can be done.

That would be horrible. Wouldn't you suffocate to death,  knockout , at the aircraft's cruising altitude. And what if you were asleep when the plane opened it's undercarriadge doors and you fell a couple of thousand feet. hissyfit 

JG
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Gilligan
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:34 am

Quoting Caribb (Reply 8):
Well that would suggest three pilots missed him... the one flying from Kinshasa, the pilot on CDG-YUL and the the pilot flying YUL-CDG.. as well as all the ground crew... so he (or she) must have been well hidden or sadly squished well up inside the wheel well.



Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 10):
The space where those people use to hide inside the nose-gear is not the place that pilots/engineers must check during their walk-around. A landing gear of an A330 is quite a big stuff...

Most of the pilots I have seen doing their walk arounds give at least a cursory look at the nose gear strut and a glance up into the wheel well with their flashlight. Ground crew, except to install the nose gear bypass pin, head seat jack, and hook up the tow bar avoid the gear save pulling the chocks unless they are obviously leaking hydraulic fluid.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
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yowza
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:35 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 9):
Hopefully, AF will lodge a protest with the Kinshasa airport authority. Not that it will make the slightest bit of difference.

YYZ717 I see you've had some dealing with Zaire/Africa.  banghead 
Jokes aside something must be done. Between stowaways and cattle on runways air travel in Africa is not in good shape.

My cousin works in Kinshasa right now and it is his company's policy that the only African airlines the office will book them on are SA, KQ and ET. There are two reasons for this 1) safety 2) punctuality. He tells me that it is better to fly Kinshasa -> Abidjan via CDG than to fly "shorter" routes within Africa because the chances of delays, strikes etc are far lower.

FYI I'm not Africa-bashing I have lived in 5 countries in Africa for about 16 years so I know what I'm talking about.

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 4):
Now, why would somebody want to sneak out of Canada?

In fairness he would have been escaping Quebec... that is more than possible.

YOWza
 
caribb
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:52 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 21):
In fairness he would have been escaping Quebec... that is more than possible

That's a low blow....  Sad
 
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yowza
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:41 pm

Quoting Caribb (Reply 22):
That's a low blow.... Sad

Hey Caribb, I forgot to put a  Smile next to that comment. It was a joke. I lived in in Montreal for number of years and love it!

YOWza
 
PADSpot
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:21 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 11):
It seems that not a lot of Africans choose to bring appropriate clothes for -50 degree temperatures when flying in the nose gear well. Evolution in action....

Interesting question: What would you die of first: Suffocation or freezing to death?

Not to forget that some have been crushed to death by the moving landing gear (I think of the NY incident some weeks ago ... ). Although there was at least one report that a stowaway had survived such a journey, though it was a shorter one ...

By the way it's not the first time that deceased stowaways made more than one trip in the gear well. Last year an LTU A330 came back from VRA to DUS and they found a dead cuban who had already started to decompose. Days later when the forensic report was published it was said "he" must have made at least two journeys to and from Cuba. The continuous freezing and heating up again between the flight legs had an increasing accelerating effect on decomposition ...
 
nycflyer
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RE: Stowaway Dies On YUL-CDG Flight

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:42 pm

Anyone know the mechanics of stowing away in a wheel well?

Anyone know how big the inside of a wheel well is? Any pics? I always thought there was just enough room for the wheel, and nothing else. Clearly I'm wrong if there's space enough for a grown man. So once the wheel is up, how much space is there? Can you walk around? Do you have to lie down and not move?

Also - once the landing gear comes out, I would imagine there's a huge threat of being sucked out of the plane by the wind thrust, and falling 5,000 feet to your death. Pleasant.

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