SHUPirate1
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JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:53 pm

Has any higher loadfactor ever been reported by a major carrier?
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FA4B6
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:22 pm

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Thread starter):
Has any higher loadfactor ever been reported by a major carrier?

Yes! By JetBlue lol ...

in July 2003, B6 reported a 90.6% LF. In August 2003, B6 reported a 91.6% load factor!

http://www.jetblue.com/learnmore/pressDetail.asp?newsId=193
http://www.jetblue.com/learnmore/pressDetail.asp?newsId=199

Still, 91.1% is outstanding! It was a very busy month at JetBlue  Smile Here is the press release for July 2005: http://www.jetblue.com/learnmore/pressDetail.asp?newsId=334
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quickmover
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:27 pm

How can they say that they don't overbook and have a 91% LF? I don't care how "wonderful" the service is, it's only human nature to some no shows. There is no way they can achieve only 9% no shows and not overbook some.

People in general are not that reliable.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:48 pm

Good lord, how the heck do you manage a fleet to get a 91.1% load factor with BUR having to send out flights with capped seats?!?

From: http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/050804/83317.html

JetBlue operates a fleet of 79 new Airbus A320 aircraft and plans to add six additional A320s and eight Embraer E190s to its fleet in 2005.
Isn't that one more E190 than the seven I've been hearing? Or did I miss something?

Congrats to the employees of B6! Of course, this won't silence Jetblue's critics that they're "expanding too fast."

And to think one of the reasons I was excited about the E190's was the ability for B6 to use them to reposition A320's onto higher yield/load routes! 20 days to go until first delivery.  Smile

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 2):
There is no way they can achieve only 9% no shows and not overbook some.

This has been discussed before; last I heard B6 was doing very minor overbooking. Recall that a ticket on B6 is "use it or lose it." It doesn't matter if people are reliable or not if the revenue comes in!  duck 

Lightsaber
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N1120A
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:00 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 3):
Good lord, how the heck do you manage a fleet to get a 91.1% load factor with BUR having to send out flights with capped seats?!?

I am guessing they don't count the capped seats in their load factors Lightsaber and the BUR flights are 100% at 135
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FA4B6
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:11 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 2):
How can they say that they don't overbook and have a 91% LF? I don't care how "wonderful" the service is, it's only human nature to some no shows. There is no way they can achieve only 9% no shows and not overbook some.

People in general are not that reliable.

Apparently they are. We don't intentionally overbook. We never have, and most likely never will. And yes there are no shows, of course there are, but not that many.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
I am guessing they don't count the capped seats in their load factors Lightsaber and the BUR flights are 100% at 135

Yes they do count BUR-JFK flights which are capped at 135. However, everything else was at or near 156 in July.
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A330323X
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:36 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 2):
How can they say that they don't overbook and have a 91% LF? I don't care how "wonderful" the service is, it's only human nature to some no shows. There is no way they can achieve only 9% no shows and not overbook some.

People in general are not that reliable.

While CW has it that legacy carriers can't support a load factor of greater than about 84% without massive oversold problems, B6 should be able to support a much higher load factor, due to its reliance on O&D traffic--they don't have to worry as much about the ability to reaccomodate misconnecting passengers.
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jetblueatjfk
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:46 am

Wow, congrats. This is great. It's really going up.

And the BUR flights I guess are 100% LF at 135 because that is all they can sell and they sold it all so..

July was a very busy month indeed. I flew them 3 times and the terminal was always packed and when they would board a flight, the lines were very long. I had 98-100% LF on all my flights.

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MidnightMike
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:58 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 2):
How can they say that they don't overbook and have a 91% LF? I don't care how "wonderful" the service is, it's only human nature to some no shows. There is no way they can achieve only 9% no shows and not overbook some.

People in general are not that reliable.

Very simple, to book a seat on Jetblue you can only book on the Jetblue website, no Expedia, no priceline. So that takes the complications out of the system.
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AADC10
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:04 am

The main reason for the high load factor is that B6 is one of the few carriers that does not have any refundable tickets. They do not have to overbook because it is use 'em or lose 'em.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
I am guessing they don't count the capped seats in their load factors Lightsaber and the BUR flights are 100% at 135

They can actually leave BUR with more than 135 if the conditions are right. I wonder if they can consider themselves over 100% in that situation.
 
rojo
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:19 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 2):
How can they say that they don't overbook and have a 91% LF? I don't care how "wonderful" the service is, it's only human nature to some no shows. There is no way they can achieve only 9% no shows and not overbook some.



Quoting AADC10 (Reply 9):
The main reason for the high load factor is that B6 is one of the few carriers that does not have any refundable tickets. They do not have to overbook because it is use 'em or lose 'em.

As AADC10 said, B6 has a use it or lose it policy which helps get high load factors.

To be more precise, B6 has a revenue management similar to the one used by U2 and FR, where you can have a virtual 105% load factor thanks to the "No Shows". Lets imagine we have a 100 seat aircraft assigned to a flight which is 100% booked (100 passengers paid for their seats) and we get a 5% of no shows (5 passengers). Those 5 seats will be sold (hopefully) to "walk in" passengers which will give us a net revenue of 105 paying passengers for a 100 seat flight.

Hope I gave you a better picture of how can revenue management help an airlines to get high load factors without overbooking!!!
 
formerhongky
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:46 am

What happens to the B6 no-shows? Do they lose the value of their ticket because they didn't show up (ie -- like if you bought a ticket to a movie and didn't show up) or are they allowed to apply the ticket value towards future flights?
 
rojo
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:07 am

Quoting Formerhongky (Reply 11):
What happens to the B6 no-shows? Do they lose the value of their ticket because they didn't show up (ie -- like if you bought a ticket to a movie and didn't show up) or are they allowed to apply the ticket value towards future flights?

As we said before, it is a "use it or lose it" policy so, to answer your question, you lose the value of the ticket and, therefore, the money you paid for it!

"Changes can be made online at jetblue.com for fee of $20 per person plus any applicable difference in airfare. Changes can also be made by calling 1-800-JETBLUE for a fee of $25 per person plus any applicable difference in airfare. All changes must be made prior to scheduled departure. Cancellations may be made prior to scheduled departure for a JetBlue travel credit, which is valid for one year and is subject to a $25 per person fee."
 
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lightsaber
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:46 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
I am guessing they don't count the capped seats in their load factors Lightsaber and the BUR flights are 100% at 135

Makes sense...

Quoting FA4B6 (Reply 5):
Apparently they are. We don't intentionally overbook. We never have, and most likely never will. And yes there are no shows, of course there are, but not that many.

Really? That's great. My misunderstanding... more below.

Quoting Rojo (Reply 10):
Those 5 seats will be sold (hopefully) to "walk in" passengers which will give us a net revenue of 105 paying passengers for a 100 seat flight.

That seems like a good business practice. One doesn't overbook ahead of time... Are these seats sold standby? I couldn't imaging getting anyone through screening in under 30 minutes in today's climate... so unless there are people waiting at the gate... making the flight would be tough.

Quoting Rojo (Reply 10):

Hope I gave you a better picture of how can revenue management help an airlines to get high load factors without overbooking!!!

Yes, but like any good answer, it raises more questions.  spin 

And as I implied before, I expect A320's to be pulled from lower yield routes and moved to new or existing routes where they can make more $$$$ when the E-190's hit the fleet. That should boost the load factor (short term, until B6 has a few hundred airframes).

Lightsaber
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Jetblue15
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:43 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 3):
Congrats to the employees of B6! Of course, this won't silence Jetblue's critics that they're "expanding too fast."

Well thank you very much but the critics are right I'm afraid. As far as JFK goes it is a major disaster for getting all bags onboard. There have been more then I care to admit days that no flight has gone out in the morning that is(that's my shift) 0430 to 1330 with all bags on board. Our MBR is through the roof. The loads out of JFK are between 95% and 100%. Some flights miss 1 bag all the way to 20 bags give or take. The airline is WAY over there head at JFK. The facilities can't handle the amount of traffic that's being pumped through there. My friend flew us last week and his bag didn't make it. In the case of Jetblue you can't judge a book by its cover. Its not the airline everyone is making it out to be now a days. Things are bad. Very bad. People tend to forget what goes on in back of the house. We're getting killed and there not hiring enough people. Anyway, back to the topic. Yes its true, we hit 91.1% load factor in July.

Jetblue15
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lightsaber
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:32 am

Quoting Jetblue15 (Reply 14):
The facilities can't handle the amount of traffic that's being pumped through there.

I thought B6 was getting a 2nd baggage room at JFK. Is that correct? That should help the "backroom" problems.

What is B6 doing for more short term JFK gates (pre 26 gate terminal?)?

Also, this brings up the question, will the new terminal have a better baggage handling layout? I'd assume so, but if anyone who works B6 bags (Jetblue15...) could tell me from their perspective, I'd like to know.

Denied boardings are the complaint that customers hate the most. If my bag gets to me a couple of hours late, I've been ok with it (as long as the bag gets to me).

And according to this site, Jetblue was the 3rd best US airline in terms of "misshandled bags." http://joe.biztravelife.com/05/020305.htm
Has the bag handling become that much worse this year?

Lightsaber
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WDBRR
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:12 pm

I better hurry and book my flights out of EWR before they
are sold out. can't wait to fly them again without having
to drive out to JFK. (I live in NJ).
 
Jetblue15
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:22 pm

There is going to be a second bagroom that "should be complete by Nov". So far they haven't done a damn thing yet. As for gates there making a another gate by what is now gates 3a and 3b as well as building a temporary terminal that will house 3 more gates by the old hardstands 1,2 and 3 along the taxiway. Not sure yet how the pax are getting there. People mover, walkway, who knows. The new terminal will have a HUGE bagroom. Its brand new. TWA went under shortly after it was built for them so its pretty much untouched but thats way way way way way off in the future and we got problems now. All I'm saying is Jetblue is not what it seems as far as an employee point of view.

Jetblue15
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CRJ900
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:50 pm

It is fascinating to see how a few dead-simple rules sharpen people up immediately. Back in the old days when you could rebook your flight without $$ penalites, people just didn't care. Now you either fly on that particular flight or lose the money - what a motivation for people to show up on time. And most of them do.

Simple and smart.
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rojo
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:33 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 13):
That seems like a good business practice. One doesn't overbook ahead of time... Are these seats sold standby? I couldn't imaging getting anyone through screening in under 30 minutes in today's climate... so unless there are people waiting at the gate... making the flight would be tough.

Good question Lightsaber, I don't know how many standby seats B6 sells and if they have "check in" cut off times in order to give time to a stand by passengers to clear screening points, but the revenue management they use was created to allow this practice. Additionally, they capped their "walk in fares" in order to get more revenue from last minute travelers. On flights not fully booked it will be easy for a last minute traveler to grab a seat, but on fully booked flights, I would give them the chance to get a seat if a there is a "No Show", just to increase my revenue. Perhaps someone at B6 could help us on this one...

I have seen this practice on many FR flights. FR has a 40 minute cut off time for passenger check in. This means that if you don't get to the check in line at least 40 minutes before departure, you can lose your seat and your ticket. The seat is indeed sold to stand by people and it is easy to get a stand by passenger through screening considering that most airports used by FR have no waiting lines in screening points. The problem with FR is that its walk in fare fluctuates depending on flight loads; for full flights they could be expensive (even more expensive than legacy carriers walk in fares) and there is no incentive to buy tickets at this price.

The cap imposed by B6 to walk in fares gives last minute travelers the certainty of the amount they will pay for their ticket.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:54 am

Quoting Jetblue15 (Reply 17):
There is going to be a second bagroom that "should be complete by Nov". So far they haven't done a damn thing yet. As for gates there making a another gate by what is now gates 3a and 3b as well as building a temporary terminal that will house 3 more gates by the old hardstands 1,2 and 3 along the taxiway. Not sure yet how the pax are getting there. People mover, walkway, who knows. The new terminal will have a HUGE bagroom.

Very informative. Thanks.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 18):
Now you either fly on that particular flight or lose the money - what a motivation for people to show up on time. And most of them do.

True true! I know people who hate this rule, but they're the really difficult customers that might not be profitable due to the hassles they create. Personally, when I buy a ticket I go... so simple.  Smile And while I don't like paying $100 change fees... cest la vie.

Rojo or anyone else, do let me know more if you find out details on B6's standby policy.

Lightsaber
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Jetblue15
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:12 am

Don't really know if this helps but cut off point for a flight is 20min prior to departure. This is at JFK though. Other blue cities have different policys. This of course posses a problem because now you have loads of late check-in bags coming down for a variety of flights. We also have voluntary seperation where we will tell the pax that there bags may not get on and if they agree with this they may get on without there bags. Max time to check-in is 4 hours and believe me people show up even for a 45min flight to ROC.

Jetblue15
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Pope
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:35 am

Congrats to Jetblue. They seem like they are just doing the simple things right and the market is responding to their business model.

===============================

On a side note, I think that people need to be very careful about the focus on load factors that seems to be developing on this forum. At some point in the past, load factors were a good surrogate for pofitability as the relationship between them were much stronger than it is today.

Public companies would report load factors monthly because they didn't report profits on such a regular basis. However, there are plenty of carriers now with strong load factors that are loosing money. Great variance in yield and below the line cost that are out of line with the industry have largely destroyed the historical relationship between load factors and net earnings.

A while back someone pointed out that even at a 100% load factor one of the majors who was in trouble (DL, AA or NW) wouldn't have broken even for the quarter.
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7e72004
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:38 am

I have never flown JetBlue...there are no close airports though that i could get a ride on them  Sad
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thelowfarehero
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RE: JetBlue Reports 91.1% July Loadfactor!

Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:19 am

91.6% is really impressive, good job jet blue! Glad to see BUR is doing great minus the pain in the rear fuel stops. Hopefully once fall comes and the weather cools, they will get those birds out totally full.
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