chieft
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BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:46 pm

There is a rumour, that British Airways stopped Lusaka due to the high local fuel prices. Any confirmation?
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
airmale
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:50 pm

As per Amadeus reservation system flights LHR-LUN (3 times weekly) are still loaded until 26OCT06, but that could change anytime....
.....up there with the best!
 
ilgrancapo
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:52 pm

Sincerely, I don't know anything. I see in Amadeus system that there are active flights from London to Lusaka in February 2006!!!  Wow!
 
backfire
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:56 pm

BA to stop freight flights to Lusaka on 9 August owing to high fuel costs - that's from BA.
 
Orion737
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:25 pm

BA really are showing an increasing lack of commitment to African destinations, with the exception of SA.

Services to Lilongwe have been axed and Lusaka much reduced. No new African destinations for ages either. Banjul and Freetown (now stable) could be started but BA are as interested in Africa as they are in South America it seems.
 
MYT332
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:31 pm

Quoting Backfire (Reply 3):
BA to stop freight flights to Lusaka on 9 August owing to high fuel costs

That's fine. If it's not profitable then why do it? They are a business afterall.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 4):
No new African destinations for ages either.

Is there much need for a 4X daily 744 service inc First cabin to MGQ these days?
One Life, Live it.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:33 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 4):
BA really are showing an increasing lack of commitment to African destinations,

I think it's more a business decision than a lack of commitment. If they can't make it profitable why should they fly there?

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 4):
BA are as interested in Africa as they are in South America it seems.

Didn't somebody explain the reason WHY BA aren't everpresent in South Americato you about a week ago? (Due largely on the relationship with Iberia and the limited number of UK originating travellers who travel there)

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
Orion737
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:36 pm

OK clever clogs. I watched a Programme on BBC World as part of Africa month on the BBC which was all about air travel or lack of in Africa and how it was hindering growth.

There was a report that BA had reported high demand for flights to Lusaka and was planning an increase in flights. This was only last month. What has happened to BA's commitment to Africa and its economic development??
 
Speedbird2155
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:36 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 4):
BA really are showing an increasing lack of commitment to African destinations, with the exception of SA.

BA now has increased services to some African destinations, so I don't see how this suggests any lack of commitment. Dropping unprofitable routes is merely smart business sense. This summer alone has seen increases to both Lagos and Abuja.

In addition to this BA has a franchise arrangement in South Africa which allows it to route passengers on to other African destinations, that might not make sense to operate direct services from London. This more suggests a proper strategy to maintain a market visability in some of these cities.

[Edited 2005-08-05 12:41:07]
 
cornish
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:41 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 4):
Services to Lilongwe have been axed and Lusaka much reduced. No new African destinations for ages either. Banjul and Freetown (now stable) could be started but BA are as interested in Africa as they are in South America it seems.

If there's a business case to fly it they will - such as Angola. They don't fly just for the sake of it.

Remeber they also hve Comair in SA - any expansion of that airline could see a connection in JNB and then on to a relatively short 737 flight to the likes of Lliongwe in the future - surely makes more sense than sending a big 747 or 777 there....
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Orion737
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:41 pm

Yes but according to a programme shown as part of BBC Africa month an interview with somone from BA made out that BA was committed to helping Africa grow socially and economically by maintaining and expanding services to the continent, particularly to Zambia where air links to Europe are poor and BA is one of the few carriers to serve the city.

You would have though having watched that programme that BA had a social as well as financial agenda.
 
cornish
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:46 pm

BA Comair do serve Zambia from SA - ok, not Lusaka however.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Speedbird2155
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:46 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 10):
You would have though having watched that programme that BA had a social as well as financial agenda.

Social agenda does not mean having to increase services if it isn't profitable to do so. A social agenda involves being a good corporate citizen and contributing in different ways to society.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:47 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 10):
somone from BA made out that BA was committed to helping Africa grow socially and economically by maintaining and expanding services to the continent,

But by routing pax through Comair, as Cornish says, you can see that they are maintaining a presence, and will be able to feed these countries through Comair.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 10):
You would have though having watched that programme that BA had a social as well as financial agenda

If BA operated routes because 'it was the right thing to do' they wouldnt be around today for you to complain about.

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
Orion737
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:51 pm

The representative on that programme from BA, made the company out to have a clear commitment to maintaining and increasing air links to Zambia from London. She stressed that it was vital for Zambia as BA was the only European carrier with regular services.

You would have thought this lady was 'Bob Geldof' not some money hungry airline person. I realise now this was a cheaap (very cheap) thing for BA to do to make out that although they were a business, they were a caring one helping Africa and Zambia (what the programmes was about).

I wish I had the name of the programme and the lady from BA's name because it was only shown last month and was actually all about air travel to Zambia.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:53 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 14):
The representative on that programme from BA, made the company out to have a clear commitment to maintaining and increasing air links to Zambia from London.

But Air Links doesn't necessarily mean direct air service.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 14):
wish I had the name of the programme and the lady from BA's name because it was only shown last month and was actually all about air travel to Zambia.

Would you write a letter?? Big grin

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
Orion737
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:56 pm

I saw the programme, wish I had a copy to show you 7LBAC111, I would loved to ask you round for a private viewing (fight!)so you could eat some humble pie. The programme was very specific. It said that BA had recently increased flights to Lusaka from LHR using a 763 and made great claims that BA was the only carrier from Europe dedicated to serving Lusaka.

It would make embarrassing viewing for BA if they are now cutting back only a month after that programme was shown.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:58 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 16):
I would loved to ask you round for a private viewing

You're so not my type Orion! .  rotfl 
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
Speedbird2155
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:00 pm

Orion737

you clearly have a beef with BA, but you are yet to say anything to prove that BA isn't showing a commitment to Africa or that the BA representative was wrong for suggesting that BA cares about Africa and in particular Zambia. BA is correct in that they are one of the few with regular service to Zambia and because this might not increase to your satisfaction, the point is that BA is there. BA does contribute to various charitable causes, but the airline is at the end of the day a business and have to answer to shareholders. If the business case is there to increase services to Zambia, you can be sure that BA will take that step, provided that the fleet availability allows this to be done.
 
Orion737
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:02 pm

I just wondering if you would like to come round and then fly back home on 'Fisticuffs airlines' Big grin
 
blooBirdie
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:02 pm

If you try to book on JNB - LUN on BA you get routed through... LHR! You can fly BA / MN direct to LVI though.
 
mhodgson
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:04 pm

I thought only freight flights (BA World Cargo) were being cut? There is nothing on BA.com to suggest that passenger flights are being cut at all
No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
 
cornish
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:06 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 14):
You would have thought this lady was 'Bob Geldof' not some money hungry airline person. I realise now this was a cheaap (very cheap) thing for BA to do to make out that although they were a business, they were a caring one helping Africa and Zambia (what the programmes was about).

Remind me again what that program is that BA does where it collects the foreign currency change from passengers. Don't they raise millions for charities - including ones from Africa - in that way.

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 17):
Quoting Orion737 (Reply 16):
I would loved to ask you round for a private viewing

You're so not my type Orion! .

I have visions of Craig and Anthony from the latest UK Big Brother in my head - can't think why  Wink

No prizes for guessing which is which  Wink
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:27 pm

Mhodgson, you restore my faith that people on here read the posts other than the thread starter before making their own post! It is only BA World Cargo that is dropping direct flights to Zambia due to fuel costs. Jet fuel in Zambia is apparently twice as expensive as in neighbouring countries, something the country's President has asked aviation officials to look at with BA World Cargo's departure (Mentioned on Airwise report).

As for a lack of commitment to Africa, BA have a fairly good netwrork: -

14 weekly flights to Johannesburg
_7 weekly flights to Cape Town (Increasing to 12 for the Winter)
_3 weekly flights to Mauritius
_3 weekly flights to Harare
_3 weekly flights to Lusaka
_3 weekly flights to Dar es Salaam
_3 weekly flights to Entebbe/Kampala
10 weekly flights to Nairobi
_1 weekly flight to Luanda
_7 weekly flights to Lagos (Increasing to 10 for the Winter)
_5 weekly flights to Abuja (Increasing to _7 for the Winter)
_7 weekly flights to Accra

In addition, Morrocco and Tunisia are served by GB Airways, BA shorthaul serves Algeria and Libya, BA longhaul serves Cairo, and BMED serves Addis Ababa and Khartoum.

As was also mentioned Comair serve a number of destinations from JNB, while until BA was forced to terminate the franchise agreement it also had Regional Air serving some destinations from NBO.

You won't see BA big in West and Central Africa because historically the majority of the countries there have closer ties to France and Belgium, just as in South America ties are closer to Spain and Portugal.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
Orion737
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:32 pm

We do have some historical/colonial/cultural ties in West Africa in both the Gambia and Sierra Leone and British Caledonian served Dakar for years so their once was demand.

Think particularly Banjul would be a good addition for BMed with a 320 for the small business traffic/and premium holiday traffic who would prefer scheduled flights as opposed to a cramped charter.
 
AlanUK
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:29 pm

I have just returned (yesterday) from Africa with BA, as crew.

It was HELL. I was due to come back from Nairobi, where I was staying with the whole 767 crew today. But due to LACK OF JET FUEL in Lusaka, BA decided to maintain the LHR return flight, but via NBO. Which meant that I picked up the passengers from Lusaka onto London, and the previous crew are taking "my" passengers back to LHR, as I type this.

A lot of passengers were very angry as most of them lost connecting flights to Europe, mainly Amsterdam and Hamburg. In the end, we landed with a 3 hour delay, which isn't bad considering the aircraft went via NBO and had to refuel there, plus swap crew.

But still, pax were furious, swearing never to fly BA again! I just had to tell a few of them that many airlines would have simply cancelled the service altogether, rather than go through the expense of flying via NBO.

lso, BA was NOT legally forced to offer hotel accomodation to these passengers, as the lack of jet fuel in LUN is not the airline's fault. But still, BA, out of good will, offered rooms to ALL connecting passengers, and an updated booking onto the first flights the following morning. But still, the complaints kept on coming. Towards the end of the flight, a lady, who had to be awoken to put her seat upright and fasten her seatbelt for landing, spat on my hand as I was helping her... I reported the matter to the CSD immediately, and I was later on assured by the ground staff that she would NOT be flying BA on her onward flight...

The flight was full, but even so, if the fuel situation continues in LUN, I cannot blame BA for pulling out. In fact, quite frankly, considering the grade and behaviour of some passengers on the route, I would welcome a BA pull out!

Alan.
 
mainMAN
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:01 am

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 18):
you clearly have a beef with BA, but you are yet to say anything to prove that BA isn't showing a commitment to Africa

Not so much a beef with BA, as a concern with Zambia/Africa, the way I see it. Even though I moan about BA's perceived commitment to the UK regions, I can see no reason why BA should be committed to anywhere that doesn't return a profit.

The only time I ever went to Zambia, it was in a bloody awful state, even worse than Zimbabwe is today. I don't think it's improved much. Hence...

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 25):
But due to LACK OF JET FUEL in Lusaka

With the exception of lucrative RSA and Nigeria schedules, I think Africa is covered in a commensurate way, through (for example) SN Brussels, Air France, BA/Comair, Ethiopian and what's known as the KLM/Kenya Airways combination.
 
mainMAN
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:05 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 17):
You're so not my type Orion! .

methinks thou protesteth too much Big grin
 
md90fan
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:06 am

what aircraft was the Lusaka flight operated? 763,772,744?
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
mainMAN
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:13 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 28):
what aircraft was the Lusaka flight operated? 763,772,744?

According to the BA timetable, 763
 
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yyz717
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:38 am

BA is a for-profit carrier and will only operate commercially viable routes. BA is not providing a social development service for African development.

The SOLE reason for "poor" air links to/from Africa is the poor state of most African economies. If/when African leaders are able to generate economic growth, new air links will come.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
BA001Concorde
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:28 am

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 25):
Towards the end of the flight, a lady, who had to be awoken to put her seat upright and fasten her seatbelt for landing, spat on my hand as I was helping her... I reported the matter to the CSD immediately, and I was later on assured by the ground staff that she would NOT be flying BA on her onward flight...

That is really awful to hear!!!

I don't know how I would handle that situation, but it would probably be a lot less dignified than your response.
Fly with a veteran, not a "Virgin".
 
md90fan
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:47 am

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 29):
According to the BA timetable, 763

ok thanks for the information

-Devan
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
AlanUK
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Sat Aug 06, 2005 6:15 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 32):
That is really awful to hear!!!

I don't know how I would handle that situation, but it would probably be a lot less dignified than your response.

Trust me, after such a hell flight, it took a LOT of self control not to take physical action... You know what I mean.

al.
 
WindowSeat
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RE: BA Stopped Lusaka?

Sat Aug 06, 2005 6:32 pm

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 33):
Trust me, after such a hell flight, it took a LOT of self control not to take physical action... You know what I mean.

Yes absolutely, and I laud you for your restraint! However, you need to realise that such eventualities, although deplorable must never be judged as stereotypical of the community as a whole. The delay you explained could have happened on any BA flight, for any reason, and still the passengers could have been just as unreasonable. While we in the service industry understand the exact circumstances, they do tend to be judgemental in their opinion. However, you are doing the same when you say...

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 25):
In fact, quite frankly, considering the grade and behaviour of some passengers on the route, I would welcome a BA pull out!

You're no different from the passengers you serve.

cheers
I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.