beauing
Posts: 329
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 1:59 pm

Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:12 am

Quote:
Alaska Airlines had the nation's worst performance for on-time arrivals during June, with half of its flights not arriving when scheduled.

Alaska Airlines' Flight 164 from Anchorage to Seattle was late every time in June.

The Seattle-based airline's 49.8 percent on-time arrival rate in June was worse than its 59 percent in May, when it also ranked last.

The airline also ranked poorly for mishandled baggage and flight cancellations, the report said.

Amanda Tobin, spokeswoman for the airline, acknowledged the problem and said Alaska Air's reliability plummeted as labor problems coincided with the start of its busier summer schedule.

Last month, pilots, mechanics and flight attendants rejected tentative agreements the airline reached with their unions.

Employee morale is rotten, said Jim Lewis, who recently quit his job as an Anchorage baggage handler.
http://www.adn.com/money/story/6784028p-6673241c.html
 
User avatar
AirPacific747
Posts: 9254
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:52 am

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:25 am

Quoting Beauing (Thread starter):
The airline also ranked poorly for mishandled baggage...

Isn't the staff at the airports to blame for that?

It doesn't say why so many flights are delayed either... any explanations for that?

[Edited 2005-08-05 18:25:54]
 
beauing
Posts: 329
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 1:59 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:33 am

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 1):
The airline also ranked poorly for mishandled baggage...

Isn't the staff at the airports to blame for that?

No, the airline is responsible for baggage handling. Alaska fired their baggage handlers but and hired a contractor/ But they are still responsible for the problem.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 1):
It doesn't say why so many flights are delayed either... any explanations for that?



Quote:
Alaska Air's reliability plummeted as labor problems coincided with the start of its busier summer schedule.
 
as739x
Posts: 4996
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:57 am

Beauing: AS fired no rampers. Our AS rampers decided they would take no contract offered to them. The deadline was up and so a contractor was highered. Granted management should have tried to keep them till after the summer, but we can all second guess. In addition we don't know what happened behind the closed doors. All the contracts are up right now, but the unions are not helping either. Im frustrated with my union, they have not showed up 2 times to negotiations.

With the pilots I think that the cut was a little much, but a cut was needed. I hope they get this resolved.

The flight attendant, no one knows what the contract offered had in it. It was kept sealed from most people.

I don't see what makes us any different from other airlines. Everyone (with exceptions, we know who) is have labor problems. Jim Lewis should go talk to the UA rampers, US rampers, etc. Some people need to open their eyes and realize this is happening everywhere!

All these numbers reported will come around!

I don't want to sound pro-management, but sometimes employee's need to bite their tongue because they cant turn around the airline, so stop snipping at though who are trying. Also, in those regards their is murmurs that people are not blaming Bill Ayers as much anymore. Some people may realize that this could be coming from higher then the CEO. You be the judge!

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
birdbrainz
Posts: 423
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 6:57 am

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:04 am

Huh, that's odd. I just flew on them, and travel with them regularly. Employee morale didn't seem bad.

It's funny. I was reading the thread about Micheal O'Leary and Ryanair, and was thinking how much I've enjoyed flying on Alaska/Horizon.

Off subject: btw, I've noticed Q400's being used for PDX-SJC (~560 mi). Has that worked out well for AS/Horizon? Is it much more economical that an RJ?
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15222
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:08 am

What portion of the ontime averages are attributable to the weather-prone airports AS serves?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
User avatar
AirPacific747
Posts: 9254
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:52 am

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:11 am

Quoting Beauing (Reply 2):
Alaska Air's reliability plummeted as labor problems coincided with the start of its busier summer schedule.

thanks  Yeah sure
 
beauing
Posts: 329
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 1:59 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:11 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 3):
Beauing: AS fired no rampers.

I should have said "replaced."
 
717-200
Posts: 564
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2000 1:29 am

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:47 am

Having recently stated work at Menzies at SEA on the ramp as a lead I
see the low morale of the AS folks on a daily basis, especially the CSA's
and the mechanics. I am beginning to wonder if AS made the right move
in contracting out the ramp at their home base and hub here at SEA. Only
time will tell if this unprecendented move by AS and Menzies will work in
the long run.
72S 733 734 735 73G 738 742 752 763 E190 M82 M83
 
juventus
Posts: 2017
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:12 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:00 am

Can't blame Alaska for on-time performance. Fog in the Pacific Northwest is often a problem (a pain in the ass I should say). I've flown on them five times, not one regret.
 
707lvr
Posts: 457
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:41 am

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:29 am

The inside of an airplane is pretty much a given; what has set AS apart all these years and given it consistently high ratings and passenger loyalty has been the Service. Basically nice people who enjoy(ed) their jobs. Labor and management were seen as "family," believe it or not, as opposed to the manifest mutual hatred that exists on some other carriers. That was then. This thing is not your father's Alaska Airlines, for whatever reason. It might as simple as a few rotten personalities dealing the wrong way with bottom line pressures.

One of our little secrets in the northwest is the world's most perfect weather in summer. No fog. It's something else.
 
flyingnanook
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:41 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:34 am

Quoting Juventus (Reply 9):
Can't blame Alaska for on-time performance.

I can. Looking at the data from the DOT website, 36% of delayed flights were due to "air carrier delay," which includes mechanical and crew problems, not weather. Another 40% were due to "late arriving aircraft," most of which, I would assume were late due to previous "air carrier delay," although some could be due to weather." I would assume at least 2/3 of the 40% (about 27%)would have to due with the previous "air carrier delay." So my estimation is that at least 63% of delays are under Alaska's control.
Semper ubi sub ubi.
 
beauing
Posts: 329
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 1:59 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 3:36 am

Quoting Juventus (Reply 9):
Can't blame Alaska for on-time performance. Fog in the Pacific Northwest is often a problem

In my 30 years of flying, fog has only been a problem once, and that was in Juneau. I don't think you can blame it on the weather.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:08 am

Quoting 717-200 (Reply 8):
Having recently stated work at Menzies at SEA on the ramp as a lead I
see the low morale of the AS folks on a daily basis, especially the CSA's
and the mechanics. I am beginning to wonder if AS made the right move
in contracting out the ramp at their home base and hub here at SEA.

The problem is that the company never negotiated in good faith with the rampers. The company came to the table with a proposal that not only had huge cuts, but said that the jobs could eventually be outsourced at the end of the contract.

The negotiators said no, and upon the next time they came to the table the company's next proposal was actually much WORSE! They were asking for several times the amount of the previous cuts that had been shot down by the negotiators. Each time, they were told that these cuts wouldn't be necessary if they'd agree to let them outsource the SEA ramp to a third party, Menzies.

So essentially the company said, "We'll gut your contract if you want to keep SEA in-house...or we can ask for minimal cuts in exchange for throwing your 472 SEA co-workers under the bus."

That's NOT negotiation - it's extortion.

Now with the pilots I can't argue - they shot themselves in the foot by not agreeing to smaller cuts earlier, but even the company admits they were shocked at how big the cuts were that the arbitrator handed down; hence their desire to pare them back somewhat to keep the pilots happy. The tradeoff was that they expected a 5 year deal instead of the 2 year one currently in place.

So the pilots had a choice - take a shitty contract for 5 years, or keep the current REALLY shitty one, but only suffer it for 2 years and then re-negotiate. They chose the latter.

I've been with AS for nearly 14 years and I've never EVER seen morale this low - not after flight 261, not after 9/11 - NEVER. This is the worst it has ever been. We're short about 100 FTE (full-time equivalents) at the SEA ticket counter; mandatory overtime has been in effect or quite some time there and it's not getting any better. You have handfuls of disgruntled pilots delaying flights until all the coffeepots have been replaced and every single lightbulb in the overhead passenger service units have been fixed. You have new rampers in SEA driving beltloaders into the sides of brand new aircraft, putting them out of service.

At the start of the summer our schedule - admittedly, a very aggressive, ambitious one - relied on every flight running on-time to work. When flights were inevitably delayed for one reason or another, it resulted in total chaos - cancellations, huge delays of 4 hours or more, etc. AS had to pare back some of the schedule as a result, postponing SEA-DFW service for several months, cutting back on SEA-MCO and temporarily suspending SEA-MIA operations.

All of THAT added extra stress and work to an already-overworked group as well.

BUT - we've got a bunch of operational spare aircraft now, minimizing delays due to mechanicals and weather. We've streamlined the schedule to provide more reliable service. The Menzies folks in SEA are doing better, but they still aren't quite up to par - but hopefully they'll get there soon.

Quoting AS739X (Reply 3):
Im frustrated with my union, they have not showed up 2 times to negotiations.

Both cancellations were because their financial guy Tom Roth hadn't reviewed the company's economic proposal, and consequently they were unprepared to meet. They DID call the company and cancel, though. I'm good friends with one of the Lead negotiators so I know this for a fact.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:26 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 3):
Beauing: AS fired no rampers. Our AS rampers decided they would take no contract offered to them. The deadline was up and so a contractor was highered.

Good god, what a load of BS legalese double-speak.....Alaska choice to replace those guys, those guys didn't quit....I say they where sacked or fired depending on what side of the pond you are on.

Quoting FlyingNanook (Reply 11):
36% of delayed flights were due to "air carrier delay," which includes mechanical and crew problems, not weather. Another 40% were due to "late arriving aircraft," most of which, I would assume were late due to previous "air carrier delay," although some could be due to weather." I would assume at least 2/3 of the 40% (about 27%)would have to due with the previous "air carrier delay." So my estimation is that at least 63% of delays are under Alaska's control

I think you are quite low in your estimate. I was working for the ANC caterer in June and know that a 2 hour delay or better into ANC wasn't uncommon that month. Most of which where for things like late operations not weather.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
gipper913
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:22 am

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:36 am

Question for EA CO AS and for AS739X:

Obviously the pilots have a contract into 2007, but as to the other unions without contracts/recently rejected TAs (the FAs, mechanics, and customer service folks) what do you think the odds are of a strike by at least one of the unions, given the animosity that has developed at AS between labor and management and between workers and labor leadership? And if the odds are decent, any clue as to when? I fly AS twice a month, and I can change my plans in event of a strike on my routing flights, but I have an autumn trip that must be precisely planned out. I want to stay loyal to AS, but am beginning to think I ought to book HP or UA (assuming their labor unrest dies down) or, God help me, WN for a crucial PDX-LAX trip in November.

Thank you both for giving us AS fliers who want to hold onto our loyalty to AS (which, thanks to the poor service in recent months, is slipping nearly out of our grasp) some insight into the internal workings of the airline. bigthumbsup 

I do hope the unions and management come to agreements soon that allow for the financial health of the company, which had a (modest) profit this past quarter for the first time in a long time!

As an aside:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 13):
You have new rampers in SEA driving beltloaders into the sides of brand new aircraft, putting them out of service.

if these are the new handlers, why would they be sabotaging aircraft...they are the new hires, not the ones let go! Or are you saying they are bad belt-loader drivers?

Also, you mentioned that a handful of pilots are purposely delaying flights for inconsequential reasons. That is totally unacceptable. Are other AS employees reporting these pilots?
The size of the federal budget is not an appropriate barometer of social conscience or charitable concern. --R. Reagan
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:39 am

Quoting Gipper913 (Reply 15):
if these are the new handlers, why would they be sabotaging aircraft

I think they where describing the effects that inexperienced people who don't have that far to fall in income if they get fired and have to work at Mcdonalds have on the operation.

Not intentional sabatoge, just a lack of experience, skill and intellegence causing accidents.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
bushpilot
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:49 am

Im not an expert, but flying AS often and quite a bit in this summer, it seems to be Reaganomics in the sense that the tardiness is a trickle down effect from late arriving aircraft. I watched it in ANC, SEA, JNU, and SFO. Its pretty obvious that when your sitting at the gate, its 15 minutes to boarding and the plane hasnt arrived yet...your gonna be late as well.
Throw in a light being out, or another mechanical error large or small, it backs up the whole system.
It has been a rough summer for AS, I hope it gets back on track soon. The summer schedule was quite ambitious especially in accomdating tourists to Alaska, but they couldnt quite pull it off. Throw in labor problems we all are aware of and its a recipe for tardiness.
As for weather, as most everyone else has said, its not an issue.
 
gipper913
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:22 am

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:10 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 16):
I think they where describing the effects that inexperienced people who don't have that far to fall in income if they get fired and have to work at Mcdonalds have on the operation.

Not intentional sabatoge, just a lack of experience, skill and intellegence causing accidents.

Hence why I asked:

Quoting Gipper913 (Reply 15):
Or are you saying they are bad belt-loader drivers?

It was unclear because of the incongruity of talking about pilots intentionally delaying flights right before talking about the rampers crashing onto planes.
The size of the federal budget is not an appropriate barometer of social conscience or charitable concern. --R. Reagan
 
gipper913
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:22 am

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:16 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 17):
the tardiness is a trickle down effect from late arriving aircraft

No doubt it is often the case that the effects of minor delays at start of the day translate into longer delays and cancellations by the end of the day... but this is true with every carrier, and there is obviously more going on at AS lately that is the real root cause (really causes) of the sudden and uncharacteristic poor performance of AS. The schedule, like you mention, was overly ambitious and unrealistic and labor is ticked at labor leadership and management.

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 17):
it seems to be Reaganomics

LOL at analogy, but the trickling down in Reganomics was good stuff (prosperity, job growth, etc) while flight delays trickling down through the AS system is a very very bad thing (esp if you are last flight out of a northwest airport en route to SNA with it's NIMBY noise curfew!!!)  banghead 
The size of the federal budget is not an appropriate barometer of social conscience or charitable concern. --R. Reagan
 
bushpilot
Posts: 1674
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:40 am

Quoting Gipper913 (Reply 19):
the trickling down in Reganomics was good stuff

Well that is debatable, but I can respect your opinion on that, didnt quite work out that way for everyone though. I can tell your a fan of him by your signature.
But regardless, I hope and pretty please AS to get thier stuff together. IIRC correctly they made pretty good money last quarter. How much longer of performance like this until they go into the red? Any thoughts are appreciated.
 
gipper913
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:22 am

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:59 am

Quoting Bushpilot (Reply 20):
Well that is debatable, but I can respect your opinion on that, didnt quite work out that way for everyone though. I can tell your a fan of him by your signature.
But regardless, I hope and pretty please AS to get thier stuff together. IIRC correctly they made pretty good money last quarter. How much longer of performance like this until they go into the red? Any thoughts are appreciated.

Agree this isn't the place for political/economic debate. Though, I am right and you are wrong (j/k).

They made a very modest profit ($17.4M) in the second quarter, the first profit in three quarters. IMHO, they will go into the red very quickly if: 1.) There is chaos caused by strikes and 2.) if unions extort unreasonable deal out of management that drives up labor costs and 3.) if the poor service continues See:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...5134_alaska22.html?syndication=rss
The size of the federal budget is not an appropriate barometer of social conscience or charitable concern. --R. Reagan
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 13403
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:49 pm

Quoting Gipper913 (Reply 15):
what do you think the odds are of a strike by at least one of the unions, given the animosity that has developed at AS between labor and management and between workers and labor leadership?

Slim to none. While things are tense at AS these days, I doubt things would ever get to the point where a strike was a possibility.

Quoting Gipper913 (Reply 15):
if these are the new handlers, why would they be sabotaging aircraft...they are the new hires, not the ones let go! Or are you saying they are bad belt-loader drivers?

As was previously mentioned, they're not sabotaging planes - they're just new. New people do stupid things, including hitting aircraft with ground equipment, mishandling bags, etc.

The turnover at Menzies in SEA was epic - we had one week where 40 people quit - but word is that it's getting better, and we also have management pitching in to assist.

Believe me, these days at AS, it's "all hands on deck" to help out and get the job done. No one has been able to catch their breath.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
WeAreUnited
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:02 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:45 pm

Quoting AS739X (Reply 3):
The flight attendant, no one knows what the contract offered had in it. It was kept sealed from most people.

That's not true! Every flight attendant received a copy of the contract at their house. There also roadshows, pamphlets, and other literature all on the contract. It was in NO way sealed from people.
 
spirtofalaska
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:36 pm

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:04 pm

Old news...There Working on correcting it, It was also right after Mendez(SP) Started
you fo'Coffee?
 
Leneld
Posts: 600
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 9:00 am

RE: Alaska Airlines The Worst

Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:08 am

All of these problems Alaska Airline is experiencing right now I can sum it up quite easily...It the CURSE of screwing over PDX!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 727LOVER, adamblang, AirIndia, Baidu [Spider], BobPatterson, carljanderson, cero852, flightsimer, Google Adsense [Bot], hinckley, MrHMSH, msycajun, United1 and 193 guests