Sabena332
Topic Author
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O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:04 am

I just read a great interview with Ryanair CEO Michael O'Leary, it is published on the Welt am Sonntag website but unfortunately is it only in German.

O'Leary is answering questions in his typical loudmouth style.

Some quotes:

Reporter: "Do you think that traditional airlines have now a business model to exist beside the low cost competition?"

O'Leary: "BA noticed that they can not compete against low cost airlines, thus they are focusing on the long-haul routes. Lufthansa on the other hand is not as far as BA. They are a little bit schizophrenic. Half of the time they are focusing on long-haul routes, then they hold a strategy meeting in Frankfurt and go back to the short-haul routes in Germany. After six months full of losses they go back and concentrate again on the long-haul routes. Or they buy a catering company, that is a total stupid business."


Another:

Reporter: "Which European airline is the worst managed?"

O'Leary: "Lufthansa!"

Reporter: "Why?"

O'Leary: "Everyone who is buying a catering company in these times should urgently consult his doctor to have his head checked"


Furthermore is O'Leary bitching about EasyJet and other German low cost airlines. He attacked the idea to sell tickets via supermarkets (like dba did lately) and predicted that EasyJet will be taken over by another airline in the future.

I really like to read interviews with O'Leary, he has a provoking style. In my opinion is it ok when he behaves like that, Ryanair is a very successful airline.

Patrick

[Edited 2005-08-06 21:11:44]
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
FI642
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:20 am

Anyone that says LH is a poorly managed company should have HIS
head examined. LH is extremely successful, and the envy of many
other carriers.
737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
 
Udo
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline

Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:21 am

The guy just sucks. He behaves like a horny teenager and thinks he is cool. Some of his comments are simply rubbish.

- Lufthansa is definitely a well-managed airline, saying the opposite is ignoring reality
- Ryanair to be the only successful LCC in a view years? Crap. Not everybody wants to be treated like cattle. And not everyone likes to land in the middle of nowhere

MOL will get his wake up call one day, just a matter of time.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Avianca
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:23 am

Patrick,

thank you for the intresting link....

I think O´Leary is an a....e, arrogant, without respect to the client etc.
For example the tink with the airports (and city names) is there any other airline that promot "Lübeck" as "Rom-North" or "Madrid-East"  Smile ?

He will get in future with this way in serius problems. And it would be not wrong if his company would start to respect the european laws...

but anyway his way of giving interview is more funny than serious due the lot of s..t he is talking...

regards
andreas
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Avianca
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:39 am

and he is criticizing that for example AZ received subventionen, but is he getting without paying the airports fees? the same...
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Udo
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:41 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 4):
and he is criticizing that for example AZ received subventionen, but is he getting without paying the airports fees? the same...

He's just a big hypocrite...


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
legacy135
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:43 am

I agree with you Patrick. In a way it is funny to read O'Leary's answers. On the other hand I have to say that with all experience I could gain now in aviation I came to a deal with myself.

This deal is: Never fly with O'Leary's Ryanair!

I am not alone with that. The other day we were a couple of people from the airline business sitting together in the coffee when I brought up my meaning. And it became worse and worse. Everybody had at least two or more bad experiences with Ryanair, ranking from handling, over flights and services until lost bags, bags from other companies they lost and what comes then....
Finally we need to see that Ryanairs profit is widely based on the horrible way he treats his staff. This is somewhat I can't agree at all. I am not one who defends enormous salaries and little work. But everybody should be re-embursed correctly. This means I pay a fair salary, offer fair working conditions and get therefore a good job. O'Leary wants the staff to do the outmost and treats them like animals before WWF was invented!

Finally I am not sure about all going to happen he announces. If O'Leary wants to fly for three times nothing, fine he shall do that. I don't want. We also have seen Mc Donalds coming to Europe the last 20 years. We still have lots of nice restaurant apart as well. I go to Mc Donalds as well, as I like this Junk Food, but it's not specially cheap. Same with his airline. If you count all, there are other offers around which may result a better bargain. With a slight difference to the comparison a made with the restaurant: I am not going to fly Ryanair for it's horrible blue-yellow interiors, to Mc Donalds I go for the food. So there will finally be no reason to fly Ryanair.
LH on the other hand offers tickets quite cheap as well, but you get the service of a world class airline, knowing they look after you if a bag gets lost, you can count your miles and finally you can be sure about one thing: By flying LH every single passenger helps to assure the jobs for those working for LH and those jobs are fair jobs. So my decision is well made. Regards to Mister O'Leary.
Finally we all need to think about our future in aviation: If we support those guys like him, one day we will have working conditions as bad as those working for him. Imagine, getting punished for charging your cellphone at work.

Thanks for the inerview which is fun. I just would like to motivate as many as possible to help to assure a certain level in our contracts. Thanks to all of you supporting the airline employees through Europe,

Rgds,
Legacy135
 
Spike
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:47 am

I just dont understand how you get fromse airports to the city. It must be bt bus right? EU-jet saw that model cant work, so how does it in france, germany or italy?
 
maddy
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:00 am

O´Leary is known for being arrogant and his "aggressive" management made Ryanair so successful. But he himself says that there are cheap and expensive airlines and no space in-between and that's what most quality-carriers now focus on -> offering service. I count myself to group of passengers that Ryanair generated because I wasn´t financally able to fly before FR and I don´t need that much service.

I´m more concerned that Ryanair is thinking about leaving LBC if Infratil won´t buy the airport because of the stopped airport extension (longer runway/new terminal).
 
Finkenwerder
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline

Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:00 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 3):



Quoting Avianca (Reply 3):
think O´Leary is an a....e, arrogant, without respect to the client etc.
For example the tink with the airports (and city names) is there any other airline that promot "Lübeck" as "Rom-North" or "Madrid-East" Smile ?

If it wasn't for the Likes of O'Leary and Easy Jet Many German backwaters would remain just that. Germany needs all the economic help it can get so before you start to criticise him, have a long hard think about how the Lübecks of this world would cope with the withdrawal of the service.
 
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mariner
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:03 am

There is no other airline CEO who gets a.netters attention like Mr. O'Leary - not even SRB.

But why? He isn't dull, he runs a very successful airline and he isn't afraid to admit - publicly - that he is wrong, as in Poland.

People have been predicting the end of Ryanair for a long time - and it hasn't happened - the profits just keep getting bigger.

I would think he probably sleeps very well at night.  cheerful 

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Avianca
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:37 am

Quoting Finkenwerder (Reply 9):
If it wasn't for the Likes of O'Leary and Easy Jet Many German backwaters would remain just that. Germany needs all the economic help it can get so before you start to criticise him, have a long hard think about how the Lübecks of this world would cope with the withdrawal of the service.

this would not affect all the Lübecks ... becaue it´s 90% outgoing traffic. and the great company of O´Leary do not pay nothing for the service they get from the airports + all the traffic is a man-made one... nothing more nothing less...
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
whitehatter
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline

Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:45 am

I love the way you crowd all get your panties in a bunch when someone mentions MOL.

Guess what ladies....O'Leary is a self-made millionaire. Want to know how he did it? By being loud and not giving a toss what anyone else thinks of him or his airline. That's why people like David Bonderman of Texas Pacific sits on the board of Ryanair, the same guy who has made BILLIONS in the airline industry with people like Continental. Bonderman backs success.

O'Leary employs Sir Beard strategy in self-promotion too. He gets up the noses of people like the Lufthansa and Alitalia suits, and gets millions of free pounds/euros worth of free publicity in the process.

And all the sages of airliners.net wail on about how much of a loser he is...well sorry girls, O'Leary could buy and sell you all with his loose change. And by doing what he does exactly in the way you all think is so wrong, he's made himself and his investors hugely rich.

So who is right?
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
Avianca
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:51 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 12):
he's made himself and his investors hugely rich.

good possible, but anyway he has a kinky character and did not respect nothing...If you like him, why not, it´s ok for me. But you can not expect that all of us like him.

regards
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
whitehatter
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:56 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 13):
good possible, but anyway he has a kinky character and did not respect nothing...If you like him, why not, it´s ok for me. But you can not expect that all of us like him.

I respect the man for making himself and his backers hugely rich by doing what he does.

But the armchair CEOs and publicity gurus who post here seem to think he is evil incarnate and a buffoon. Well who is the success? Who is the one who has an airline with increasing profits and mammoth stock value?

Anyone who does not understand that simple fact is a fool. O'Leary is right up there with Herb and the rest for being a smart cookie and making all the right moves at the right time.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
PADSpot
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:13 am

Sabena332, what has to happen until you finally bury your hatchet with LH? Your issues with them seem to be somewhat serious, following your posts during recent days ...

cheers,
Jan
 
dhefty
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:15 am

Quoting Udo (Reply 2):
MOL will get his wake up call one day, just a matter of time.

Yes, Udo, there will be a wake-up call, but I predict it will be for the likes of Lufthansa. Ryanair is a lot like Southwest and there is really no reason why it will not keep on growing at a healthy clip. A good basic business model with no frills has a lot to be said for it. Why is it that Europeans instinctively react against entrepreneurs, when that is just what their creaky economies desperately need? Ryanair didn't get to where they are by braggadocio. So what if MOL is a colorful character?

[Edited 2005-08-06 23:21:30]
 
Udo
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:15 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 12):
And all the sages of airliners.net wail on about how much of a loser he is...well sorry girls, O'Leary could buy and sell you all with his loose change. And by doing what he does exactly in the way you all think is so wrong, he's made himself and his investors hugely rich.

I couldn't care less if he is rich or not, or what made him rich. Fact is he talks nonsense just to get publicity and that's why I don't like him.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 14):
I respect the man for making himself and his backers hugely rich by doing what he does.

And I don't respect him for being arrogant and showing permanent disrespect towards competitors, customers and employees.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 14):
But the armchair CEOs and publicity gurus who post here seem to think he is evil incarnate and a buffoon. Well who is the success? Who is the one who has an airline with increasing profits and mammoth stock value?

So do I have to respect and like anyone just because he is rich?

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 14):
Anyone who does not understand that simple fact is a fool. O'Leary is right up there with Herb and the rest for being a smart cookie and making all the right moves at the right time.

Herb is a very respectable person, along with other guys in the industry. David Neeleman or Richard Branson just to name a few. In comparison, MOL is just a rude hooligan running an airline at the lowest level which I would never fly unless I have to.


Regards
Udo

[Edited 2005-08-06 23:28:58]
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Sabena332
Topic Author
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:17 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 15):
Sabena332, what has to happen until you finally bury your hatchet with LH? Your issues with them seem to be somewhat serious, following your posts during recent days ...

In case you didn't notice it, I just quoted Micheal O'Leary and posted a link to the WamS website where the interview with him is visible.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
legacy135
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:20 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 12):
I love the way you crowd all get your panties in a bunch when someone mentions MOL.

Guess what ladies....O'Leary is a self-made millionaire. Want to know how he did it? By being loud and not giving a toss what anyone else thinks of him or his airline. That's why people like David Bonderman of Texas Pacific sits on the board of Ryanair, the same guy who has made BILLIONS in the airline industry with people like Continental. Bonderman backs success.

O'Leary employs Sir Beard strategy in self-promotion too. He gets up the noses of people like the Lufthansa and Alitalia suits, and gets millions of free pounds/euros worth of free publicity in the process.

And all the sages of airliners.net wail on about how much of a loser he is...well sorry girls, O'Leary could buy and sell you all with his loose change. And by doing what he does exactly in the way you all think is so wrong, he's made himself and his investors hugely rich.

So who is right?

This is a question of style, character and mentality. It is true, O'Leary earned millions and millions. But is he a honorable person? Sorry, but he isn't! All the money he shoveled he made out of hundreds of people bonded to this great company with stupid contracts. He is squeezing every penny out of every single stewardess. He goes to countries like Poland or Lithuania and tells those young Ladies there how well he is going to pay them somewhat like 1000 Euros a month or whatever if they work as a flight attedant for him. He bonds them with contracts they can't leave earlier than after a certain period, otherwise they need to pay a hell lot of money in their reality. Once they are in England, they can realize that this salary they get is worth three times nothing, they work 14 hours and more and will not even get a free coffee on board, will need to share a two room apartement with 6 others and have a live much worse than before in their home country.
Do you remember how this was called in earlier days? We called it Slaves and everybody has it's big disgrace about. But if a guy without moral who neglects all aspects of fairness shows up, people start to kiss his a....

Why don't you show us an example of a real manager? A gentleman, who runs it's company in the interest of all, with all and finally earning a hell lot of money because everybody is real motivated. My boss is somebody like this. He is not in aviation, but in medical. But finally it doesn't matter, the fact is, he runs a company and he does it in the most respectable manner I only can imagine.

Mike O'Leary is not a respectable person, he is not respecting the individual, is far away from fairness and has no behavior at all.

Let's wait until aviation is screaming again for staff and let's see what happens to "Great MOL". It is quite possible that he will have a kind of a staff problem......  Wink
 
Udo
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:21 am

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 16):
Yes, Udo, there will be a wake-up call, but I predict it will be for the likes of Lufthansa.

No, they have their longhauls and a circle of large business travellers which will keep them profitable.

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 16):
Ryanair is a lot like Southwest and there is really no reason why it will not keep on growing at a healthy clip.

Comparing that crappy airline with Southwest is an insult...

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 16):
Why is it that Europeans instinctively react against entrepreneurs, when that is just what their creaky economies desperately need?

Wow, what a generalization. Give me a Neeleman or a Kelleher anyday, but not that Ripper of Dublin. Btw, better get some info about subsidies Ryanair has been receiving. That's the last company which would help our economy.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
legacy135
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:24 am

Quoting Udo (Reply 17):
Herb is a very respectable person, along with other guys in the industry. David Neeleman or Richard Branson just to name a few. In comparison, MOL is just a rude hooligan running an airline at the lowest level which I would never fly unless I have too.

I only can say: I DO AGREE WITH YOU IN EVERY SINGLE ASPECT !
 
Udo
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:25 am

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 19):

Well said, Legacy135 (reply 19). And welcome to my RU list.


Regards
Udo

[Edited 2005-08-06 23:26:47]
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Avianca
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:29 am

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 21):
Quoting Udo (Reply 17):
Herb is a very respectable person, along with other guys in the industry. David Neeleman or Richard Branson just to name a few. In comparison, MOL is just a rude hooligan running an airline at the lowest level which I would never fly unless I have too.

I only can say: I DO AGREE WITH YOU IN EVERY SINGLE ASPECT !

I do also on the ascpects of Legacy135 and Udo!!!

regards
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Avianca
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:32 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 23):
I do also on the ascpects of Legacy135 and Udo!!!

welcome both to my Respected Users:

cheers
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Sabena332
Topic Author
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:33 am

By the way, I have absolutely no problems with O'Leary's airline. I flew three times on them and all flights were good.

Regarding the "airports in the middle of nowhere" argument: Well, it is true sometimes but I didn't notice it on my flights. I flew DUS-STN on Buzz, connected then to a FR flight to DUB. On the next day I flew DUB-PIK-STN on FR and connected at STN to an AB flight to DTM.

Service: Like at any other European low-cost airline you have to buy everything, no big deal in my opinion.

Inflight: F/A's were always friendly, service was good. On one flight I sat in the emergency exit row, more space than in other airlines Business Classes. Pilots made the usual announcements. All flights on time except one cancellation (PIK-STN). Compared to other members I didn't find trash in my seat pocket, the planes were perfectly clean.

Customer service: Excellent! One flight was cancelled (as mentioned above) but I was foresighted and booked also the flight which was leaving 2 hours later to be on the safe side. I got rebooked anyway on this later flight so I demanded my money back, it arrived within a few days on my bank account.

I made only good experience on all my Ryanair flights.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
dhefty
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:35 am

Quoting Udo (Reply 20):
Wow, what a generalization. Give me a Neeleman or a Kelleher anyday, but not that Ripper of Dublin. Btw, better get some info about subsidies Ryanair has been receiving. That's the last company which would help our economy.

When it comes to subsidies for the airline industry, don't make me laugh. The whole enterprise has been highly subsidized since its inception. And that incudes runways, traffic control, training, manufacturing and financing. All airlines as well as Airbus and Boeing have benefited by massive governmental subsidies over the years. Taxpayers have bailed out numerous airlines that were failing.

Let's face it, MOL is disliked for his personal style, and primarily by elitist Europeans. Here in the US he would be appreciated for providing a service that millions of people previously could not afford.
 
Leskova
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:35 am

So, in MOL's view, LH has a worse management than OA or AZ?

And some people actually take that guy seriously...

Yes, he's earned a lot of money - so? What's the point? As others have asked, does money automatically earn him respectability? Hardly.

As for a certain user's assumption that Europeans "instinctively react against entrepreneurs" - oh please, cut the nonsense.

There are more than enough entrepreneurs that are highly regarded in Europe, who are highly successful.

If there is anything that could be said somewhat generally, then it'd be that Europeans just react badly to bad behaviour - no matter whether the person is rich or not.

But even that rule has more than enough exceptions...

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
ZakHH
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:40 am

Patrick, lemme guess: you printed this interview and gave it a special place on your wall of fame, didn't you?  Wink

Well, what can you say about the interview? Nothing else could be expected from MOL. He sometimes reminds me of Jehova's Witnesses, announcing the end of the world again and again. But he is not fully out of bounds with some of his views. And I loved that one:

Q: Who is Europe's best airline manager?

A: That's a contradictionary question. If they were good, they would not be airline managers. They'd sign up with companies who actually earn money. Media, sex, drugs...
Tired of a.net? Join a friendly aviation community!
 
Sabena332
Topic Author
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:45 am

Quoting ZakHH (Reply 28):
Patrick, lemme guess: you printed this interview and gave it a special place on your wall of fame, didn't you?

I even called Fleurop to send flowers to MOL and additionally I replaced the bible in my parent's house (where I am currently) with a Ryanair timetable as a sign of respect for MOL.  Wink

Too bad that MOL isn't an A.net member, I would add him directly to my RU list. Big grin

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
Udo
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:46 am

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 26):
When it comes to subsidies for the airline industry, don't make me laugh.

Don't make me laugh by mixing up subsidies in aviation in general with specific subsidies Ryanair has been enjoying at European regional airports.

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 26):
Let's face it, MOL is disliked for his personal style, and primarily by elitist Europeans.

You don't need to be an "elitist European" to dislike his lack of respect towards anyone.

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 26):
Here in the US he would be appreciated for providing a service that millions of people previously could not afford.

Haven't you heard of Southwest? They have done exactly what you describe and they have done it in style, with great customer service, motivated staff and respectful attitude.
I wish we had something like Southwest over here...


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
dhefty
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:47 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 27):
Yes, he's earned a lot of money - so? What's the point? As others have asked, does money automatically earn him respectability? Hardly.

As for a certain user's assumption that Europeans "instinctively react against entrepreneurs" - oh please, cut the nonsense.

He has earned respectability because he has built a successful enterprise that provides a valuable service to millions of people at a price they can afford. I stand by my statement that entrepreneurs are generally not well-respected in Europe. This is reflected in the lack of venture capital in Europe, as well as lack of securities markets like NASDAQ. It is a subject that has been written about in many articles and books over the past few years. And Deutschland is one of the worst offenders. Ryanair and EasyJet stand out in Europe primarily because their founders bucked the sclerotic European system, and in doing so irritated a lot of people.
 
Udo
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:48 am

Quoting ZakHH (Reply 28):
A: That's a contradictionary question. If they were good, they would not be airline managers. They'd sign up with companies who actually earn money. Media, sex, drugs...

That comment alone shows much of the nonsense he spreads all the time.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
legacy135
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:50 am

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 26):
Let's face it, MOL is disliked for his personal style, and primarily by elitist Europeans. Here in the US he would be appreciated for providing a service that millions of people previously could not afford

I am not sure how highly he would be praised in the US. Those loving the style of "the Osbournes" or how this nice family is called would probably love him as he is very similar in many aspects like this Ossy Osbourne.
But don't forget one thing, there is always somebody who needs to pay in the end. In Ryanair the employee pays the bill. I do not agree that this is the way it should go. This way the entire society pays, this is unfair!
On the side of the airports, he is asking most of the services free. So who pays? Tax money = you, me, she, everybody pays!
Is this the way you would praise him in the States? I am happy to know that there are also a couple of "Elitist" Americans in the US who can think a little further than their own nose and would not allow his behavior in filling his pockets with other peoples money and telling the same time that thanks to his great company traveling is now affordable at low prices.
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:52 am

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 31):
This is reflected in the lack of venture capital in Europe, as well as lack of securities markets like NASDAQ.

That's not because entrepreneurs are not highly regarded in Europe - people in Europe simply have a different attitude towards money; especially in Germany, the attitude is summed up quite well with the old saying "Haben kommt von halten" - "'To have' comes from 'to hold'" (somewhat rough translation).

In other words, if you have money, you keep it - you don't risk it by putting it into businesses that might lose it.

Good idea? Hardly.

Nonetheless, it is one of the reasons why venture capital is quite difficult to find here.

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 31):
And Deutschland is one of the worst offenders.

I think this is probably the first thing that you've posted on a.net that I can fully agree with.

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 31):
Ryanair and EasyJet stand out in Europe primarily because their founders bucked the sclerotic European system, and in doing so irritated a lot of people.

Funny that you should mention EasyJet - because that's perfect proof that you can be highly successful and not loathed at the same time in Europe.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
tatfsn
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 11:56 am

RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:55 am

To all of you who are so worshipful of Mr. O'Leary, I say GO WORK FOR HIM! Better yet, cross your fingers that the organization(s) that you work for are as inspired by Ryanair and O'Leary as you are, and adopt his management philosophy!! I'd be interested to see if you'll be singing the same tune afterwards.

I don't buy into the notion that some of the posters of this thread apparently do: that one's success or wealth (be they a star athlete, an actor, or the CEO of an airline) excuses any and all behavior on their part. That's one of the reasons that our society continues to become more and more coarse, and continues to go down the tubes.

I echo some of the posts above re: Herb Kelleher. He's built one of the most successful and profitable airlines in history, but gives his employees all the credit for his airline's success, and pays them well. He treats his customers well. And lo and behold, his company continues to grow, continues to innovate, and be profitable--and keeps a loyal following of customers, who consistently fill his planes. I work in the industry, and have heard more than one person who has met him personally describe him as a true gentleman.

It doesn't take genius or particular smarts to emulate the O'Leary model: walk all over your employees and pay them as little as you can get away with, thumb your nose at your customers, trash-talk and insult anyone and everyone, be they the airframe manufacturer that just sold you a bunch of planes at a bargain, one of the governments that you take issue with, and any other airline that you consider unworthy of you. Any other ruthless and thoughless jerk with some business acumen could do what he's doing.
 
dhefty
Posts: 587
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:57 am

Quoting Udo (Reply 30):
You don't need to be an "elitist European" to dislike his lack of respect towards anyone.

Lack of respect for anyone? What are you talking about? When MOL was recently at the Boeing plant in Everett, he entertained the assembly line workers by bashing Airbus and promoting Boeing, and was roundly cheered. I like his style and so do many others. At the time Boeing was having all kinds of management problems and had fallen far behind Airbus in orders. It was a real morale booster. It was just what was needed. His enthusiasm was palpably contagious. I certainly cannot imagine anyone from Lufthansa doing the same.
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
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RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:59 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 34):
Funny that you should mention EasyJet - because that's perfect proof that you can be highly successful and not loathed at the same time in Europe.

Very true. I can't remember any opposition against Easyjet, not even in Germany.

Quoting Tatfsn (Reply 35):

I echo some of the posts above re: Herb Kelleher. He's built one of the most successful and profitable airlines in history, but gives his employees all the credit for his airline's success, and pays them well. He treats his customers well. And lo and behold, his company continues to grow, continues to innovate, and be profitable--and keeps a loyal following of customers, who consistently fill his planes. I work in the industry, and have heard more than one person who has met him personally describe him as a true gentleman.

That sums it up quite well!  thumbsup 


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:02 am

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 36):
Lack of respect for anyone? What are you talking about? When MOL was recently at the Boeing plant in Everett, he entertained the assembly line workers by bashing Airbus and promoting Boeing, and was roundly cheered.

That must be one of the worst examples of "showing respect" that I've ever heard of: showing respect by disrespecting another company and their employees?

What a great man...  thumbsdown 
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Sabena332
Topic Author
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:05 am

Quoting Tatfsn (Reply 35):
walk all over your employees and pay them as little as you can get away with

I don't know how much is FR paying but I can say for sure that the whole airline industry isn't paying much (at least here in Germany). I worked for an airline and when I look at my old salary statements, I don't know if I should cry (because I didn't realize earlier to work for a company which is paying me more for the same job) or laugh (because I was such a fool to work long enough for such a joke salary).

Quoting Tatfsn (Reply 35):
thumb your nose at your customers

FR has great customer service (as mentioned above).

Quoting Tatfsn (Reply 35):
trash-talk and insult anyone and everyone, be they the airframe manufacturer that just sold you a bunch of planes at a bargain, one of the governments that you take issue with, and any other airline that you consider unworthy of you.

He is successful with this behavior, just look at this thread. Everyone is talking about O'Leary and his airline as soon as he gives an interview like today, and he gives many interviews like the one today.

Quoting Tatfsn (Reply 35):
Any other ruthless and thoughless jerk with some business acumen could do what he's doing.

I dissagree, otherwise there would be much more airlines like Ryanair, don't you think?

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
Avianca
Posts: 5270
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:07 am

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 36):
At the time Boeing was having all kinds of management problems and had fallen far behind Airbus in orders. It was a real morale booster. It was just what was needed. His enthusiasm was palpably contagious.

boeing reciprocate this with nearly endow him the new 737 fleet.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Finkenwerder
Posts: 120
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:54 am

RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline

Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:08 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 11):
this would not affect all the L�becks ... becaue it�s 90% outgoing traffic. and the great company of O�Leary do not pay nothing for the service they get from the airports + all the traffic is a man-made one... nothing more nothing less...

^

Wake up, your lacking in business experience and knowledge .....! What on earth do you think attracts new business to areas like Lübeck, The schone landschaft ??

Of course not, it's Good communications.

Try telling German ATC staff, German ground handlers, German fuel suppliers, German ticket agents, German hotels and the great German tax system that new airports and services don't benefit Germany.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5270
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:09 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 39):
FR has great customer service (as mentioned above).

Patrick, I heard other storys, seems that you had a lucky time with FR.

regards
Andreas
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
dhefty
Posts: 587
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 8:04 am

RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:09 am

Quoting Tatfsn (Reply 35):
It doesn't take genius or particular smarts to emulate the O'Leary model: walk all over your employees and pay them as little as you can get away with, thumb your nose at your customers, trash-talk and insult anyone and everyone, be they the airframe manufacturer that just sold you a bunch of planes at a bargain, one of the governments that you take issue with, and any other airline that you consider unworthy of you. Any other ruthless and thoughtless jerk with some business acumen could do what he's doing.

Sometimes, to get the free publicity you need, you have to act a bit outrageous. The stuffy "English Gentlemen" of the world are often-times not very successful businessmen, just people who inherited their wealth from their outrageous fathers. Consider what MOL has achieved in a very short time.
 
Sabena332
Topic Author
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:10 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 38):
Quoting Dhefty (Reply 36):
Lack of respect for anyone? What are you talking about? When MOL was recently at the Boeing plant in Everett, he entertained the assembly line workers by bashing Airbus and promoting Boeing, and was roundly cheered.

That must be one of the worst examples of "showing respect" that I've ever heard of: showing respect by disrespecting another company and their employees?

What a great man...

Do you know why he did it? Here is a post from fellow A.net member flyAUA (reply 5 of this thread) which should explain it (just replace the word "Sharon" with the word "Boeing"):

I'll explain to you why he's kissing Sharon's ass...

First we have to come up with the mathematical formula. To do this you take every letter of the alphabet and assign it a sequential number. A=1, B=2, and so forth. Z will equal 26.

Now ... let's do some addition.

KNOWLEDGE. Here we have a 96% effort.

HARD WORK. Add up the values of the letters. Hard Work equals a 98% effort.

ATTITUDE = 100%. Yes, there's your proof. Attitude is everything.

BULLSHIT. Uh oh. Now we're getting somewhere. Here you get 103% effort. and ...

ASS KISSING. Yes, my friends. Kiss the right butts and you get 118% effort.

So, one can then conclude with mathematical certainty that: While Hard work and knowledge will get you close, And, Attitude will get you there, Bullshit and Ass kissing will put you over the top.

Hope that clarifies the matter SuperFly


Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:12 am

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 36):
Lack of respect for anyone? What are you talking about?

Read Legacy's posts again, you'll find the answer there.

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 36):
When MOL was recently at the Boeing plant in Everett, he entertained the assembly line workers by bashing Airbus and promoting Boeing, and was roundly cheered.

Wow, he bashed Airbus in front of a crowd of Boeing workers. What did you expect them to do? Yawn? They would have cheered at anyone bashing their rival...  Yeah sure

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 36):
I like his style and so do many others.

You like to be entertained by cheap propaganda? Fine.  Yeah sure

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 36):
At the time Boeing was having all kinds of management problems and had fallen far behind Airbus in orders. It was a real morale booster. It was just what was needed. His enthusiasm was palpably contagious.

Come on, if he had got the rocket deal from Airbus he would have shown his  butthead  into the Boeing crowd. It's naive to assume MOL really likes these guys or anyone else in the industry...cheap PR, that's all.

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 36):
I certainly cannot imagine anyone from Lufthansa doing the same.

Doing what? Bashing Airbus? Or ordering some 100 B738s which they don't need and afterwards bragging about how they raped Boeing? No, that's not Lufthansa's style indeed...


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Avianca
Posts: 5270
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:15 am

Quoting Finkenwerder (Reply 41):
Try telling German ATC staff, German ground handlers, German fuel suppliers, German ticket agents, German hotels and the great German tax system that new airports and services don't benefit Germany.

with the dumping prices FR pays? german hotels? as posted before mostly taffic is outbound from germany not incoming with foreigen tourists.

german ticket agents? = as I know FR sells mostly if not all tickets via internet or a very expensvie hoteline 0190....

cheers
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Finkenwerder
Posts: 120
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:54 am

RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:27 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 47):
with the dumping prices FR pays? german hotels? as posted before mostly taffic is outbound from germany not incoming with foreigen tourists.


german ticket agents? = as I know FR sells mostly if not all tickets via internet or a very expensvie hoteline 0190....

So your telling me Lubeck should dump Ryan air. Because it doesn't bring enough revenue to Lubeck ? Hello......


Let me spell it out for you.....This typically how business people think

"Oh great there's a new low cost regular reliable airline at Lubeck..seems like a sensible low cost place to establish my new business to service NRW Hamburg and the rest of Europe"

You just refuse to realise the opportunities this brings, talk about head in sand
 
tatfsn
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 11:56 am

RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:30 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 39):
I don't know how much is FR paying but I can say for sure that the whole airline industry isn't paying much (at least here in Germany). I worked for an airline and when I look at my old salary statements, I don't know if I should cry (because I didn't realize earlier to work for a company which is paying me more for the same job) or laugh (because I was such a fool to work long enough for such a joke salary).

Sorry, friend, but I think that's a rationalization. Are you saying Ryanair's employees are fools (after all they work for the great Michael O'Leary)?

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 39):
FR has great customer service (as mentioned above).

No window shades, no reclining seats, no refunds even if a flight is canceled, free wheelchair service (only because O'Leary's great idea of charging extra for it was shot down by the courts). That's great customer service? Also, there are a number of folks who've posted in this and other threads that would beg to differ with you.

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 39):
He is successful with this behavior, just look at this thread. Everyone is talking about O'Leary and his airline as soon as he gives an interview like today, and he gives many interviews like the one today.



Quoting Dhefty (Reply 43):
Sometimes, to get the free publicity you need, you have to act a bit outrageous. The stuffy "English Gentlemen" of the world are often-times not very successful businessmen, just people who inherited their wealth from their outrageous fathers. Consider what MOL has achieved in a very short time.

The two of you are making my point for me. So if one is arrogant, rude, and outrageous it is perfectly all right, as long as they're successful?

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 39):
I dissagree, otherwise there would be much more airlines like Ryanair, don't you think?

Actually, no. At least not in the U.S. I seriously doubt that a Ryanair/O'Leary would play well here. And Southwest would kick their butts.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5270
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: O'Leary At It Again, "LH Worst Managed Airline"

Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:34 am

Quoting Finkenwerder (Reply 47):
So your telling me Lubeck should dump Ryan air. Because it doesn't bring enough revenue to Lubeck ?

I am telling you "Luebeck should not lick his a.....e."
if FR pays a faire price for getting an adequate service, I see no problems.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia