toering
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How Are Cockpit Visits Arranged?

Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:24 am

Rare no doubt, but how in the wide world do some people gain access into the cabin while in flight, and then take photos on top of it?


Do you just ask the crew if you can go up front or what? I know I'm lacking testicular fortitude to do anything like that!
So whats the secret?
 
Udo
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Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:29 am

Quoting Toering (Thread starter):
So whats the secret?

Fly a non-US and non-British airline (best would be Air France), try to get in contact with F/As, tell them about your hobby so that they trust you (in case of AF: learn some French words). Probably ask them about a cockpit visit after landing - could all help you.
Oh, night flight is better than day flight, as less people would see you going forward.


Good luck!


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
mtnmanmakalu
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How Are Cockpit Visits Arranged?

Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:38 am

Quoting Toering (Thread starter):
So whats the secret?

If it's a US carrier and you are not part of the crew, there is no secret- NO WAY!! It won't happen!!!

mtnman
I do, I don't, whatever.......
 
GoAibusGo
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Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:53 am

Fly with BonairExpress (CuracaoExpress), the cockpit door is always open (ATR-42).
 
EMBQA
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Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:55 am

So what's the secret?

There is no secret. At least here in the US unless your on a VERY short list of FAA Approved personal, NO ONE is permitted in the cockpit while in flight. This question gets asked some many times here on A.net it's not even funny anymore......especially post 9-11-01.

As for taking the photos...don't forget pilot have hobbies too..!! I know several flight crews that are avid photographers..and thus as pilots, have cockpit access and jumpseat access.

[Edited 2005-08-06 21:58:54]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
thelowfarehero
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How Are Cockpit Visits Arranged?

Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:09 am

I dont think posting these secrets on the internet is a wise idea no matter what country you are in.....There are alot of people out there trying to find a way of some sort and you are all showing them how to's.
I HAATE AA!
 
7e72004
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Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:12 am

I have suggested this whole thread be deleted...been discussed before and is also not appropriate.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
Venezuela747
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Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:20 am

I/My Dad told the FA like 5 different time back in 1997 to go visit KLM 747 cockpit on our flight to CCS, they told me first class was sleeping so I couldn't

But your best bet would be to fly a non US carrier. US carriers won't allow you to visit while on flight, here is our strict things are, if the pilot needs to use the restroom or for some reason the cockpit door needs to be open, the FA will block the aisle with her cart and if you stand up you'll be told to sit down.
ROLL TIDE!!!
 
SPREE34
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Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:31 am

Thelowfarehero said....
"I dont think posting these secrets on the internet is a wise idea no matter what country you are in.....There are alot of people out there trying to find a way of some sort and you are all showing them how to's."

SPREE34 throwing a "bullshit flag" on this.
What secerets? What "how tos"? You write as though the bad guys are some bunch of ignorant know nothings who need our ideas to plan their next crime. Get real. Stop drinking the George Bush Koolaide, think about what YOU are saying and posting. Every time someone thinks or speaks in the manner you have here it's proof their mission was a success.
Agghhhh!! I feel a rant coming on. Land of the free, home of the brave.....yeah........right.....whatever.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
SPREE34
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Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:35 am

By the way. Have you noticed this is an international forum? They still have a lot of the freedoms/privileges Americans have lost. Being able to ride in a jumpseat is one of them.

trying very hard not to rant.....really....I am
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
Udo
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Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:38 am

Quoting Thelowfarehero (Reply 6):
I dont think posting these secrets on the internet is a wise idea no matter what country you are in.....There are alot of people out there trying to find a way of some sort and you are all showing them how to's.



Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 7):
I have suggested this whole thread be deleted...been discussed before and is also not appropriate.

Paranoia does really stink sometimes...  melting 


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
ZakHH
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Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:40 am

Been in the cockpit twice (both times LH, both well before 2001). I simply asked for it. Told the F/A that I was interested in flying and aircrafts, and that I would love to see the cockpit. They went and asked the captain, and both times, I was invited to the cockpit only a couple of minutes later.

The 1st time, I stayed in the cockpit for almost the whole flight (HAM - HEL, 2 hours), chatting with the pilot and the FO. Even had my meal in the cockpit, that was really one great flight experience. They only asked me to go back to my seat 10 minutes before landing.

The 2nd time was shorter, but also fun. It was my first flight on a Canadair CL600, and the captain (former German Airforce captain) was really one cool chap. When approaching some loose cloud formations, he gave me a demonstration of the aircraft's handling by flying kind of a slalom between them (which was not all to the liking of some pax...   ).

Anyway, concerning your question, I can just confirm what has been written before. Simply ask for it.

(Edited for typos.)

[Edited 2005-08-06 22:44:02]
Tired of a.net? Join a friendly aviation community!
 
KabAir
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How Are Cockpit Visits Arranged?

Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:46 am

Quoting Spree34: By the way. Have you noticed this is an international forum? They still have a lot of the freedoms/privileges Americans have lost. Being able to ride in a jumpseat is one of them.
_________________________________________

True. And I have a feeling that if 4 of Frances plane's were flown into the Eiffel Tower, or 4 of Italy's planes were flown into the leaning tower of Pisa, you'd probably see the same privileges lost in those countries! You act like flying jumpseat is a right set forth by the Constitution. 9/11 sucked. Not getting to ride jumpseat sucks. Not having had any more planes fly into buildings killing thousands of people has not sucked.
wow, there sure are a lot of expert economists on this forum....
 
thelowfarehero
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Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:54 am

First off, i cant stand BUSH, second it isn't just an american problem anymore. Im not only referring to terrorists, but some psychotic suicidal/homicidal maniacs that are out in our world. A few years back some dude on a WN flight lost it, tried to kick down the cockpit door and he was beaten to death. Now if he were reading this forum, some of you would have given him the blueprints to accomplishing that with out having to force his way in. So check yourself buddy, because some big talker like you would probably be the first to pee their pants when your flight was hijacked.
I HAATE AA!
 
777ER
Crew
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Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:12 am

On NZ apparantly you have more chance of a cockpit visit while on a turbo-prop then jet. I have scored thou a jump seat ride for the whole trip from AKL-WLG last year on NZ. The pilot even announced during hig normal announcement before take off that I was flying jump seat

[Edited 2005-08-06 23:14:08]
 
EMBQA
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Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:32 am

Just so everyone knows.....Rules to access the cockpit have not changed post 9-11. Unauthorized access has been denied for something like 30+ years. I think in the US it dates to Hijack frezy from the early 1970's.

[Edited 2005-08-06 23:33:19]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
andz
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How Are Cockpit Visits Arranged?

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:45 am

Quoting Thelowfarehero (Reply 6):
I dont think posting these secrets on the internet is a wise idea no matter what country you are in.....There are alot of people out there trying to find a way of some sort and you are all showing them how to's.



Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 7):
I have suggested this whole thread be deleted...been discussed before and is also not appropriate.

Oh please....

Quoting Udo (Reply 11):
Paranoia does really stink sometimes...

Well said.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
dutchjet
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How Are Cockpit Visits Arranged?

Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:54 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 16):
Just so everyone knows.....Rules to access the cockpit have not changed post 9-11. Unauthorized access has been denied for something like 30+ years. I think in the US it dates to Hijack frezy from the early 1970's.

[Edited 2005-08-06 23:33:19]

Good point - many think that 9/11 is the reason for everything and its not so. And, those that have enjoyed a visit to the front office while an airliner is in flight were very luck and fortunate as most airlines and/or the crews are very careful and generally do not allow cockpit visits while in flight.
 
Udo
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Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:55 am

Quoting KabAir (Reply 13):
Not having had any more planes fly into buildings killing thousands of people has not sucked.

As if these hijackers were invited to the cockpit by the pilots...  Yeah sure


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
SPREE34
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Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:02 am

Thelowfarehero speaks more...
"but some psychotic suicidal/homicidal maniacs that are out in our world."
Yes, they are out there. They will always be out there. We should stop our lives because of them?

"tried to kick down the cockpit door and he was beaten to death."

Actually in the autopsy (facts) I think his death was medication related, however, I am in favor of beating to death anyone following his course of action.


"some of you would have given him the blueprints to accomplishing......"

Again, he was flipped because of medication and probably couldn't say the word blueprint.


"So check yourself buddy, because some big talker like you would probably be the first to pee their pants when your flight was hijacked."

Ok, checking myself....hum, "big talker", I'll have to mull that one over a bit. No bladder control issues yet, maybe when I'm older. I haven't been hijacked yet either, but don't see any logic in urinating on myself if it were to occur. I have been in a couple of other life threatening situations, twice in airplanes strangely enough. I didn't urinate then either.

So. What's really bugging you?
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
timeair
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How Are Cockpit Visits Arranged?

Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:18 am

Some people just don't get it...what is left unsaid is better...


I WOULDN'T MAKE SUGGESTIONS HERE.....U NEVER KNOW WHO IS LURKING AROUND OUT THERE!


 banghead   banghead   banghead   banghead   banghead   banghead 
You can't get there from here.
 
toering
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How Are Cockpit Visits Arranged?

Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:34 am

Well, I certainly didn't expect this thread to become a hate thread. I just wanted to point out that me posting this thread was not to pick up tricks on how to get into the cockpit and do something bad! Some of you need to chill out!!!!! I'm not going to delete this thread because a few of you feel I should. I don't see anything wrong with asking a stinken question. If I wanted to figure out how to get in and hijack a plane I would post something on a terrorist forum. At any rate, I found that it was interesting that what appears to be non crew members are in the cockpit taking pictures, that is why I posted the thread. Sorry I'm retarded when it comes to computers, hence the error on the pictures. Thank you for those who had something civil to say, and didn't make a federal case over this thread, and a special thank you to the international posters who seem to understand the question a little bit better than our U.S. friends.
 
SPREE34
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Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:38 am

Toering,
You've got nothing to be sorry for. Post away. Enjoy A.Net.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
sergeant655
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Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:18 am

isn't the highjacking frenzy of the 1970's is where Airport security came from and it has grown now after 9/11 to the TSA and their many shoe carnivals at various airports and the 3 ring circus you can find at DEN, SEA and the UA terminal at SFO
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7175
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How Are Cockpit Visits Arranged?

Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:19 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 5):
This question gets asked some many times here on A.net it's not even funny anymore......especially post 9-11-01.



Quoting Toering (Thread starter):
have suggested this whole thread be deleted...been discussed before and is also not appropriate.

THEN DON"T CLICK ON THE THREAD!

Quoting Thelowfarehero (Reply 6):
dont think posting these secrets on the internet is a wise idea no matter what country you are in.....There are alot of people out there trying to find a way of some sort and you are all showing them how to's.



Quoting TIMEAIR (Reply 21):
Some people just don't get it...what is left unsaid is better...


I WOULDN'T MAKE SUGGESTIONS HERE.....U NEVER KNOW WHO IS LURKING AROUND OUT THERE!

You guys aren't serious are you?

Quoting Toering (Thread starter):
Do you just ask the crew if you can go up front or what? I know I'm lacking testicular fortitude to do anything like that!
So whats the secret?

No secret really, just ask a cabin attendant on your flight and there should be no problem (depending on the airline). Best time is if you're on a long-haul flight and you ask during mid-flight such as on a trans-atlantic, that way the flight crew is not as busy and most enjoy a bit of company.

Enjoy A.net!
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
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How Are Cockpit Visits Arranged?

Sun Aug 07, 2005 9:16 am

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 7):
I have suggested this whole thread be deleted...been discussed before and is also not appropriate.



Quoting Thelowfarehero (Reply 6):
I dont think posting these secrets on the internet is a wise idea no matter what country you are in.....There are alot of people out there trying to find a way of some sort and you are all showing them how to's.



Quoting TIMEAIR (Reply 21):
Some people just don't get it...what is left unsaid is better...

I WOULDN'T MAKE SUGGESTIONS HERE.....U NEVER KNOW WHO IS LURKING AROUND OUT THERE!

Oh give it up. If you're a terrorist there are plenty of ways of getting info. Do we really have to stifle freedom of speech here? This forum is not even hosted in the US. BTW I find the whole idea of "The Land of the Free" being full of censorship sadly ironic.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 16):
Just so everyone knows.....Rules to access the cockpit have not changed post 9-11. Unauthorized access has been denied for something like 30+ years. I think in the US it dates to Hijack frezy from the early 1970's.

Absolutely right. Well, at least for the US. Many other carriers/nations beefed up their security regs after 9/11, ironically bringing them to the US level (no visits except before pushback or after stop at the gate).


As many have said, it depends on the carrier and how you carry yourself. But even before 9/11, it didn't always succeed for me. I often got to visit the flight deck, but was seldom allowed to sit there until landing.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
goboeing
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Sun Aug 07, 2005 9:36 am

As for this discussion giving hijackers information they didn't have...you've got to be kidding.


Basically the cockpit jumpseat is restricted to these people:
  • Airline Pilots (always on-line, off-line pilots depend on some restrictions being met [google 'CASS']
  • Airline Dispatchers (at their own company, limited access such as one round-trip observation per year, biannually, etc.)
  • Airline Interns

  • Air Traffic Controllers (this might still exist or might not, if it does, it is limited to something like the dispatcher's)

  • FAA Inspectors

    I can't think of any other group so that is probably it. I don't even think Federal Air Marshals are allowed in the cockpit under normal circumstances. Ferry flights not operated under Part 121 are an exception, of course, but permission is still required. Out of the United States is a different story. I jumpseated twice on BA 777s before 9/11 and the door was open the entire time for both flights. I imagine the atmosphere is no longer so laid back and the security is more like the U.S. carriers now, although perhaps not quite that "secure" if you want to call it that.

    Nick
  •  
    sonic67
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    Sun Aug 07, 2005 9:42 am

    I was once was invited by the pilot into the cockpit of a Condor DC-10 when on my way to Germany almost 25 years ago. I spent almost an hour ask the crew question about every button lever and what it did. It made quite impression and thought that was the greatest thing.

    Security was a lot more lacks in those days.

    In case you where wondering the pilot didn't ask me if I like to watch “Gladiator movies”  bigthumbsup 
     
    EMBQA
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    Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:16 am

    Basically the cockpit jumpseat is restricted to these people

    Actually, Airline Interns are not approved under the FAR that governs cockpit access. Licensed Mechanics are approved.......but most airlines have strict regulations when they can be up there.

    For the answers in black and white, read FAR 121.546

    [Edited 2005-08-07 03:22:05]
    "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
     
    777ER
    Crew
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    Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:21 am

    What really annoys me the most and I'm sure heaps of a.netters would easily agree is other members who are sellfish and so aragant (I won't name names, but I'm sure members will know who I'm talking about). These members obviously have nothing better to do then say rude things and attempt to put off and make members scared of posting a question, mostly new members. If those members have got nothing positive to say or are not able to add ANYTHING positive to a subject then do the rest of a.net a massive favor and don't open the open and don't reply cause those replys are not welcome.

    Moderators: Can you please delete the replys that I've addressed. I'm sure all Moderators will agree with me, that those replys are not adding anything of interest. This will do all the a.netters who are getting fed up with the replys that I've addressed a big favor
     
    calpilot
    Posts: 881
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    How Are Cockpit Visits Arranged?

    Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:32 am

    Quoting EMBQA (Reply 29):
    Actually, Airline Inters are not approved under the FAR that governs cockpit access

    Sorry EMBRQ thats not totally correct.

    Flight Ops interns can, and are approved by a Corporate Officer, like the V.P. of Flight Ops. to access the cockpit. And before someone freaks out, the person in that position is trained and background checked just like a employee. So this is not some double super secret thing that we need to keep from the world.
     
    goboeing
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    Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:35 am

    Quoting EMBQA in #29 (sorry my computer won't let me use the a.net quote)

    Actually, Airline Interns are not approved under the FAR that governs cockpit access. Licensed Mechanics are approved.......but most airlines have strict regulations when they can be up there.

    For the answers in black and white, read FAR 121.546


    Typo maybe, it is FAR 121.547.

    Interns are approved under 121.547 (a) (1) as an extra crewmember. Interns jumpseating at a few carriers now including Northwest, Delta, American, jetBlue, Continental, CoEx, Evergreen, and more.

    Also, I did forget some according to that list but the ones I posted are the most common to jumpseat, and 99% of them are commuting airline pilots.

    FAR 121.550 is a separate regulation about Secret Service agents accessing the flight deck.

    Nick
     
    EMBQA
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    Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:44 am

    Interns are approved under 121.547 (a) (1) as an extra crewmember

    121.547..yup, typo...just came back from the pub.

    § 121.547 Admission to flight deck.
    (a) No person may admit any person to the flight deck of an aircraft unless the person being admitted is—

    (1) A crewmember;


    Ah, NO. That is talking about the Pilot, Co-Pilot and Flight Engineer assigned to fly THAT flight...Period.!! Interns may be allowed under a special company program and only at special times with approval from the FAA.

    As far as flight deck access goes, you've left out an important group: flight attendants.

    I can answer the new statement below. According to the FAR's, Flight Attendents are 'NOT' classified as Crewmembers. This only comes from the fact that you do not need Flight Attendents to operate a Part 121 airline.

    [Edited 2005-08-07 03:53:45]
    "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
     
    flflyguy
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    Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:45 am

    As far as flight deck access goes, you've left out an important group: flight attendants.

    We cannot "jumpseat" in the cockpit for the entire flight, but we certainly have access to the flight deck. A flight attendant is required to be in the cockpit whenever one of the pilots leaves (i.e., restroom). We often go up there on long flights just to chill for a bit.
    The views expressed are my own, and not necessarily those of my employer.
     
    goboeing
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    Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:54 am

    EMBQA #33

    Ah, NO. That is talking about the Pilot, Co-Pilot and Flight Engineer assigned to fly THAT flight...Period.!! Interns may be allowed under a special company program and only at special times.

    Well it may be a combination of both. Extra Crewmember authorization at all times from a special program that gets permission from 121.547.

    Nick
     
    Goldenshield
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    Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:19 am

    Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 27):
    Airline Dispatchers (at their own company, limited access such as one round-trip observation per year, biannually, etc.)

    Close but no cigar.

    Dispatchers actually have unlimited access on their own carrier, and limited access on carriers that have can verify us (CASS, or local reservation system.) We must have a minimum of 5 hours per type per year, and not 1 round trip per year. This is a requirement of the FAR's.
    Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
     
    VirginFlyer
    Posts: 3889
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    How Are Cockpit Visits Arranged?

    Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:35 am

    There is an existing thread on this subject:
    Airliner Cockpit Visit Rare Or Still Possible? (by AirOrange Aug 3 2005 in Civil Aviation)

    V/F
    "So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh