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Boeing 787 Sale In China Announced Today

Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:46 am

Just saw this on Radio-Canada (in French...)

http://radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/Eco.../08/004-boeing-contrat-chine.shtml

It says that Boeing has sold 42 787 in China:
15 each for China Eastern and Air China
9 for Shanghai Airlines
3 for Xiamen Airline

(edit: quoted from a Chinese news agency)

[Edited 2005-08-08 19:54:09]

[Edited 2005-08-08 20:00:53]
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
Sinlock
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RE: Boeing 787 Sale In China Announced Today

Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:23 am

Is part of the order for 60 or is this a separate 42 bringing the China order to 102?
 
ikramerica
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RE: Boeing 787 Sale In China Announced Today

Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:33 am

This is finalization of 42 of the 60. Two other airlines are in line for the other 18, likely a 9-9 split.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
NYC777
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RE: Boeing 787 Sale In China Announced Today

Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:37 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
Two other airlines are in line for the other 18, likely a 9-9 split.

No the other two airlines are China Southern (10) and Hainan (8). China Southern is also negotiating for 45 737s so they may be conducting negotiations for the entire package.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Boeing 787 Sale In China Announced Today

Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:40 am

Actually I did some searching, and depending on who you read, it is either part of the original 60, part of the revised 50, or the final number, at 42.

Sounds like it might be the final order at 42, since there were 20 A330s ordered last week, which must piss off B. China decreasing it's publicized order by 20 for an older model like the A330 and not even the A350.

We'll see what the future holds, but dealing with the Chinese government is tricky business, based on politics more than just about any other market.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Boeing 787 Sale In China Announced Today

Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:44 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
No the other two airlines are China Southern (10) and Hainan (8). China Southern is also negotiating for 45 737s so they may be conducting negotiations for the entire package.

Well, that split makes more sense, which means the China Southern (10) might be a non-starter now, with Hainan taking 8, totaling the revised number of 50 discussed on the 29th of July.

How does China decide which airline does what and who is allowed to be big/small, etc.?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
NYC777
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RE: Boeing 787 Sale In China Announced Today

Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:53 am

I think that they will eventually order all 60 that was announced back in January. It'll probably take a few more weeks.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
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keesje
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RE: Boeing 787 Sale In China Announced Today

Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:08 pm

Airbus & GE seem to be pushing China Southern for the A350. GE is very powerfull & influential (we not talking just GenX here).
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Halibut
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RE: Boeing 787 Sale In China Announced Today

Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:20 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 3):
No the other two airlines are China Southern (10) and Hainan (8). China Southern is also negotiating for 45 737s so they may be conducting negotiations for the entire package.

I'm in agreement with NYC777,

Posted on Tue, Aug. 09, 2005

Today's Business

Chinese airlines to buy 42 Boeing jets


In January, six Chinese airlines signed an agreement with Boeing to order 60 of its new fuel-efficient 787 Dreamliners for $7.2 billion. It was not clear why the latest purchase contract did not include Hainan Airlines Co. and China Southern Airlines Co., which were part of the earlier agreement.

Xiamen Air is 60 percent owned by China Southern Airlines, which along with Xiamen Air also signed a contract in April to buy 45 Boeing 737s.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld...ebeachonline/business/12337694.htm


The final order will be for 60 ! Who knows maybe someone wants an ADV ???


 scratchchin 


Halibut
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Boogyjay
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RE: Boeing 787 Sale In China Announced Today

Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:27 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 7):
Airbus & GE seem to be pushing China Southern for the A350

I don't know about GE but considering that China will have a 5% work share on the A350, I understand where that comes from.

Airbus aims at doubling the Chinese risk sharing part between 2006 and 2010.

Add to that the Airbus Engineering Centre in Beijing to be ready in 2008.

Boeing's best partner is Japan. Looks like Airbus tries to get China  Wink

It'd be funny if Airbus would make CZ buy some A350s and forget the B787. But I think they could even buy both, looking at Chinese economic growth.
 
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keesje
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RE: Boeing 787 Sale In China Announced Today

Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:35 pm

China's big three : Air China, China Eastern and China Southern recently selected RR on their A330's.

NWA selected RR unexpectedly recently, as did ANA and ANZ.

The A350 won't be available with RR Trents before 2010.

RR is actively building up capabilities / relations with Chinese aerospace industry.
http://www.rolls-royce.com/china/en/activities/default.htm

The V2500, Trent 900 and Trent 500 are doing well in China.

GE is likely warmed up for a China offensive at this moment..

[Edited 2005-08-10 16:53:43]
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Halibut
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RE: Boeing 787 Sale In China Announced Today

Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:52 am

Published: Wednesday, August 3, 2005

Don't read much into China deal's missing jets


By Bryan Corliss
Herald Writer


After the preliminary agreement was signed in January, Boeing began negotiating specifics with the six individual airlines.

It's a complicated process, Boeing says.

"There are so many different airlines with different perspectives," said 787 program spokeswoman Yvonne Leach.

If only it were that simple, counters Aboulafia. "Everybody cooperates on purchase activities to make it look like the government is in charge of orders, but it's more complicated than that," he said.

Chinese airlines are privatizing and are testing their wings, so to speak, to see how far the government will let them go.

In this case, China Southern is the one airline not ready to sign a contract. China Southern is the most independent and "probably the healthiest" of the six purchasing airlines, Aboulafia said.

Given that, he suspects one of two things: that China Southern is stonewalling Boeing as a negotiating ploy, or that China Southern is stonewalling the Chinese government in a display of independence.

There are also some basic East-West issues to consider, said T.M. Sell, a longtime Boeing watcher who's just returned from a six-month teaching stint at a Shanghai engineering college.

"There are simply cultural differences in doing business in China," Sell said.


"I wouldn't read too much into it," he said. "If in six months, China Southern starts making (Airbus) A350 noises, then that's riveting reading."

http://heraldnet.com/stories/05/08/03/100bus_corliss001.cfm

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens !

Halibut
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RE: Boeing 787 Sale In China Announced Today

Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:40 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
Sounds like it might be the final order at 42 since there were 20 A330s ordered last week ... China decreasing its publicized order by 20 for an older model like the A330

No, you've got this wrong. The "recent" A330 order has been around since 2004 and is not for "China" but specifically for Air China who also firmly ordered 15 787s last week. There's no sense in which those 20 A330s were a substitute for 787s.

In the past year or two...
China Eastern have ordered 20 A330s + 15 787s;
Air China have ordered 20 A330s + 15 787s;
China Southern have ordered 4 A330s...

These are the Big Three in China. Who obviously needs more big twin lift? China Southern do so they'll certainly order the 787 (as planned) and/or more A330s. My hunch is both.

But the "recent" Air China A330 order has nothing to do with the somewhat delayed confirmation of the remaining 18 787s.
 
Halibut
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RE: Boeing 787 Sale In China Announced Today

Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:42 am

Quoting BoogyJay (Reply 9):
Airbus aims at doubling the Chinese risk sharing part between 2006 and 2010.

Boeing is China 's largest commercial aviation partner. Over the next 20 years, Boeing forecasts that China will need 2,300 jetliners, becoming one of the world's largest airplane markets. Boeing has offered free training to more than 27,000 Chinese aviation professionals since 1993 including pilots, maintenance, flight operations, quality and manufacturing personnel, executives and managers.

Boeing Commercial Airplanes Vice President and General Manager, Airplane Production Carolyn Corvi represented Boeing in Beijing to finalize contracts for the 787 composite rudder, the 737 forward entry door and the 737 automatic over-wing exit door with Chengdu Aircraft Industrial (Group) Co. Ltd. (CAC), a China Aviation Industry Corporation I (AVIC I)-affiliated company. Also completed were contracts for the 787 wing-to-body fairing panels between Boeing and Hafei Aviation Industry Co., Ltd. (Hafei), an AVIC II-affiliated company.



Boeing $600 Million in Contracts with Chinese Suppliers


Boeing has announced agreements with Chinese suppliers worth an estimated US$600 million for production of commercial airplane parts and components, including the first firm contract with such suppliers to build parts for the all-new Boeing 787 Dreamliner.

http://www.azom.com/details.asp?newsID=3307

Quoting BoogyJay (Reply 9):
It'd be funny if Airbus would make CZ buy some A350s and forget the B787. But I think they could even buy both, looking at Chinese economic growth

China tends to be balanced when choising between Boeing and Airbus ! So , anything is possible . However , at this time I just do not see that happening . Especially , since Emirates has yet to purchase the A350 as well as Airbus's current state of termoil regarding the delays of the A380 and launch of the A350 its self .

Quoting Keesje (Reply 10):
GE is likely warmed up for a China offensive at this moment..

Which could mean ??? Possible orders for the Boeing 747ADV since the 747Adv will be offered with GE power only !

Wishful thinking on my part ! However , one can see why China Airlines/Government would be very interested in Boeing a/c .


 crossfingers 

Halibut
6 million Jews were slaughtered-Do you see Jews flying planes into buildings in Germany to kill 1000s of innocent, NO !

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