sunnyb
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Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:08 am

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1194469.cms

SYDNEY: Star Alliance said it's in talks with Air India, Jet Airways and Sahara Airlines to get one of them to join the world's largest group of airlines, extending its network to the second-most populous nation.

Joining Star Alliance would give a carrier access to more than 15,000 connecting flights a day run by other carriers flying to 840 destinations in 150 countries.
 
Trolley Dolley
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:12 am

I think Air Sahara might go the way of oneworld. It's already signed codeshare agreements with AA and BA and they offer interline fares with QF.
 
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drerx7
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:14 am

If OneWorld and SkyTeam get on the bandwagon to court the Indian carriers that will probably settle the long running dispute over who gets Indian service--DFW or IAH.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
goodmanr
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:33 am

Quoting Sunnyb (Thread starter):
Air India

Air India is really a horrible airline, I had the really unfortunate experience of flying them, and it was awful. Anyone who has flown them refuses to fly them again, all my Indian friends refuse to fly AI when they go back home for a visit, but prior to the last few months increase in capacity, the LH and KLM flights filled up quickly...So I hope it's not AI that joins.
USAirways - Chairmans Gold
 
ba777-236
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:53 am

Well it probably won't be AI!

By the time the GOI has their meetings, and tries to make their decisions, it will be 2010 at the earliest.  eyepopping 

And at that same time, Air India will finally receive some new (not used) 777-200's (which will already be outdated) for expanding international flights.  rotfl 
I like British Airways! I'm not sure why, but I do! ;-)
 
aseem
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:00 pm

Quoting Ba777-236 (Reply 4):

by now every Tom, Dick and Harry knows the Air India fable. "Once upon a time there was an airlines called Air India.......and the rustbuckets lived happily ever after". indifferent 
cheers!!
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
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yyz717
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:02 pm

Quoting Goodmanr (Reply 3):
Anyone who has flown them refuses to fly them again, all my Indian friends refuse to fly AI when they go back home for a visit, but prior to the last few months increase in capacity, the LH and KLM flights filled up quickly...So I hope it's not AI that joins.

On that note, doesn't STAR require a certain level of inflight standard and service for its prospective additions? Do any Indian carriers have Western level of inflight service and cleanliness? Jet Airways?
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
airbusfanyyz
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:18 pm

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 6):
Do any Indian carriers have Western level of inflight service and cleanliness? Jet Airways?

Neil, 9W is probably the "cream of the crop" of all Indian Airlines in terms of the entire service spectrum especially inflight service. I dare say that their service is better than almost any western airline on comparable domestic sectors.
The sad thing is that AI (and IC) are state-run, and I think we all know how well governments run businesses.
My bet is that AI joins Star Alliance.

Cheers,
Kaz
 
mrniji
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:57 pm

Quoting Ba777-236 (Reply 4):
Well it probably won't be AI!

It will probably be Air India. 9W is designated for SkyTeam, S2 (if they survive) rather OW. AFAIK no govt approval needed

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 6):
On that note, doesn't STAR require a certain level of inflight standard and service for its prospective additions? Do any Indian carriers have Western level of inflight service and cleanliness? Jet Airways?

I hope they do and kick out LH (and from what I have heard, LO). Sorry, but this is my opinion only, EVERY Indian carrier nowadays beats the In-flight service of most carriers in "the West". 9W and S2 have excellent ground staff - in this sense, AI and IC need to get their act together, but it will be beneficial in the long term for Star to accept them. Believe me, Air travelling here in India has far higher service standards than for instance intra-Europe, not to talk about North America  Wink
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
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yyz717
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:32 pm

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 7):
Neil, 9W is probably the "cream of the crop" of all Indian Airlines in terms of the entire service spectrum especially inflight service. I dare say that their service is better than almost any western airline on comparable domestic sectors.

Great. Nothing like competition. If I ever go to India, I'm sure I will opt for Jet Airways over the horrendous Indian Airlines for internal flights.

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 7):
My bet is that AI joins Star Alliance.

I agree. Mainly because of their "entrenched" position in the market. Unfortunately.

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 8):
Believe me, Air travelling here in India has far higher service standards than for instance intra-Europe, not to talk about North America

I don't doubt that in many ways. Once again, thanks in large part to Jet Airways.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
mrniji
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:41 pm

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 9):
I don't doubt that in many ways. Once again, thanks in large part to Jet Airways.

I mean it depends on the distinction, and on the route, too. The india-gulf routes on AI are another story than the India-Gulf sector. The ground handelling needs to be completely replaced by competent people. The IFE on most routes is not bad. Problems arise in event of a crisis (delay), coz no one knows what to do.

But my main argument is that Star should invite them, maybe have short-term disadvantages, but long-term benefits for the future. India (and AI) will be too important. It all depends when/if AI gets rid of the liusy Minmistry of Civil Aviation!
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
behramjee
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:18 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 8):
It will probably be Air India/Indian Airlines. 9W is designated for SkyTeam, S2 (if they survive) rather OW. AFAIK no govt approval needed

Your predictions are what the bookies and I too favor  Wink hehehe
 
stealthpilot
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:16 pm

AI will never get their standards up unless it's privatized, and we all know how long that will take. I fly AI twice a year sadly, the transatlantic flight is ok, but I can�t say that for the other flights. I certainly hope that AI in its current position doesn�t join Star Alliance. Im already feeling bad for the people who think of using their ff miles on our lovely AI first class!!
Im not saying AI doesn�t have the potential to be a good airline; it�s just at the moment it�s far far far from it!!! If Star Alliance had quality controls in place AI wouldn�t make it.
On domestic flights, flying in India is better than America I agree, but I would rather handle DL's international hop that AI's!!!

-Nikhil
eP007
 
RMenon
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:14 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 6):
Do any Indian carriers have Western level of inflight service and cleanliness? Jet Airways?

Thankfully - Jet Airways does NOT have "Western level of inflight service and cleanliness" - in fact it far SURPASSES Western levels found at such N.A carriers like AA, UA, Air Canada, in domestic and espp international ops.
 
goodmanr
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:38 am

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 8):
EVERY Indian carrier nowadays beats the In-flight service of most carriers in "the West".

That I strongly disagree with. While I have only flow AI, they were absolutely awful. The service inflight was bad, the planes smelled, and worst of all was the service on the ground. You wait in five different long lines to have someone look at your ticket, then you get on the plane feeling like you just had the most disgusting experience. I fly LH from the US to FRA and then AI from FRA to India and the LH segments were infinitely better, which is why I chose to fly them even though it required two separate reservations.
USAirways - Chairmans Gold
 
airbusfanyyz
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:44 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 9):
I agree. Mainly because of their "entrenched" position in the market. Unfortunately

A knowledgable friend has indicated completely other factors which are based on traffic from large untapped areas that AI could feed into the Star network.

Cheers,
Kaz
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:51 am

Doesn't Jet Airways have a new codeshare agreement with UA? Could that possibly factor into the decision?
 
spink
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:41 am

Quoting Goodmanr (Reply 14):
That I strongly disagree with. While I have only flow AI, they were absolutely awful. The service inflight was bad, the planes smelled, and worst of all was the service on the ground. You wait in five different long lines to have someone look at your ticket, then you get on the plane feeling like you just had the most disgusting experience. I fly LH from the US to FRA and then AI from FRA to India and the LH segments were infinitely better, which is why I chose to fly them even though it required two separate reservations.

IA and AI are pretty bad, but inside india, Jet Airways is great. Just flew from DEL to Leh last week which is a ~55 minute flight. Full meal service, nice crew, good support people in the terminal, etc. Also if you ever get a chance, the landing in Leh is incredible.

Also Kingfisher is excellent as well. Good food and inflight service and very good terminal support people.

Do not compare the rest of the indian airline industry to the government carrier.
 
unitedgirlie
Posts: 96
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:53 am

does everyone know who does jet airways ground handling at heathrow????.............united!

Jet asked to join star before the service even started to heathrow so personally my money is on Jet for star!
 
sunnyb
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:36 am

RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:48 am

Quoting Unitedgirlie (Reply 18):
Jet asked to join star before the service even started to heathrow so personally my money is on Jet for star!

Hi! Congratulations on your 3rd post  Smile

I really want Jet to join as well. I've never tried them but reading what everybody says, they must be great!
 
goodmanr
Posts: 289
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:49 am

RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:51 am

Quoting Spink (Reply 17):
IA and AI are pretty bad, but inside india, Jet Airways is great. Just flew from DEL to Leh last week which is a ~55 minute flight. Full meal service, nice crew, good support people in the terminal, etc. Also if you ever get a chance, the landing in Leh is incredible.

Also Kingfisher is excellent as well. Good food and inflight service and very good terminal support people.

Do not compare the rest of the indian airline industry to the government carrier.

I haven't flown Jet or Kingfisher, I was just taking issue with his statement that all Indian carriers are better than "western" carriers, because they aren't. There isn't a single European or American airline that I wouldn't rather fly than AI. But I do trust you when you say Jet and Kingfisher are good, I should be back on business before the end of the year, maybe I'll give one of them a shot depending on whether I have to just fly to DEL or elsewhere...
USAirways - Chairmans Gold
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:45 am

Is Jet Airways a real possibility for Star?

I always thought they are quite close with KLM.
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:39 pm

RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:50 am

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 21):
I always thought they are quite close with KLM.

Yes! 9W might go the Skyteam way. We already have two strong Star Alliance members in the region, namely SQ and TG.
rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:00 pm

SQ and TG might have some frequencies to India, but what Star really looks after is the domestic Indian market. They want the frequent fliers from India and you can't get them without an domestic presence there.
 
vt977
Posts: 51
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:57 pm

If STAR is looking for domestic connections the AI will not be a good idea. IC or 9W might work out better. And it may also work out better for STAR as SQ and TG service the eastern traffic where as LH can cater to the west.

[Edited 2005-08-11 05:58:28]
A conclusion is what you reach when you get tired of thinking.
 
Xkorpyoh
Posts: 727
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:43 pm

Quoting Rmenon (Reply 13):
Thankfully - Jet Airways does NOT have "Western level of inflight service and cleanliness" - in fact it far SURPASSES Western levels found at such N.A carriers like AA, UA, Air Canada, in domestic and espp international ops.

Very true!!. while flying jet airways I was wishing that we had such a excellent airline in the USA. What doesn't help them is the infrastructure of many airports in india. Specially the domestic terminal in Delhi... aghhh!!!.. what a nightmare..
 
mrniji
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:40 pm

Quoting Unitedgirlie (Reply 18):
so personally my money is on Jet for star!

Don't bet too much.. you will be broke  Wink - 9W is heading toward Skyteam

Quoting Goodmanr (Reply 20):
There isn't a single European or American airline that I wouldn't rather fly than AI

Matter of taste, but I disagree! I have flown all three, American, European and Indian extensively. The worst are the former.. while UA and CO in my eyes are on the top, AA is the symbol for grumpy service! In Europe, AF, BA and KL do well. LH and AZ IF service is just horrible. In India, 9W, S2 and IC are wonderful in my eyes. And in regard to AI.. their ground service is atrocious, but their IF Service in my eyes the best.. while you have the choice of 4 meals on some sectors, travelling in the US will only provide you junk food for horrendous prices, served by a frustrated FA, snubbing at you, especially when you don't have the color they want you to have. And btw, 99 % of the people I talk to normally (Westeners travelling in India or an Indian carrier) are surprised of Indian carriers' services and always say: "Wow, this is how travelling in the US used to be in the 70s and 80s! - What amazing service, free food etc" .. but: Matter of taste probably. Some like to be left alone, others like good service and good IF experience!
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
spink
Posts: 316
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:58 pm

RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:15 pm

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 25):
Very true!!. while flying jet airways I was wishing that we had such a excellent airline in the USA. What doesn't help them is the infrastructure of many airports in india. Specially the domestic terminal in Delhi... aghhh!!!.. what a nightmare..

Having been to 5 domestic airports in India, the only decent one is Cochin. The new BLR should be nice whenever they manage to finish it.
 
unitedgirlie
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:49 am

RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:18 pm

I wonder why they have been asking united for an invite to star then as apparently an airline has to nominate/invite.

if they werent going to amble for star seems strange they have been getting so cosy with united at heathrow etc.
 
mrniji
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:28 pm

Quoting Unitedgirlie (Reply 28):
I wonder why they have been asking united for an invite to star then as apparently an airline has to nominate/invite.

Have they? But on the other side it seems to be ironic that AI and IC were kicked out of AF/KL new Fry Blue in favor of 9W
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
unitedgirlie
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:38 pm

in talks with air china as well....united handle them too

air NZ part of start....united handle them too

maybe my simplistic view of keep it in the family is a simple one but I cant help feel there is a bit more to all this cosy 'thing'
 
mrniji
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Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:54 pm

Quoting Unitedgirlie (Reply 30):
in talks with air china as well....united handle them too

air NZ part of start....united handle them too

maybe my simplistic view of keep it in the family is a simple one but I cant help feel there is a bit more to all this cosy 'thing'

I would separate the handling issue from the alliance one in some cases: I remember TG was handled long by FraPort in FRA, rather than LH/GlobeGround, regardless of Star (is it still handled by FraPort?). Even AI in FRA is (even after their re-appearance) handled by FraPort and not by LH, regardless of their partnership. LH does own handling in DEL (ok, its GlobeGround). It often also depends on how national policies permit or not permit a competitive handling market. Maybe you can tell us a little more, as you seem to be from this sector, I would be interested
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
unitedgirlie
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:49 am

RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:18 pm

I can only say what we have been told and that is that jet were trying to get into star and that wanted/needed united to invite/nominate them....I don't know enough of how it works just merely saying what had been said this end.
 
Feroze
Posts: 663
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:05 am

RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:48 pm

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 21):
Is Jet Airways a real possibility for Star?

I always thought they are quite close with KLM.

Sorry to plug, but I refer you to my thread some weeks ago:
9W And UA Codeshare, FF Miles (by Feroze Jul 27 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Regards,

Feroze
 
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HAWK21M
Posts: 29978
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RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:21 pm

Quoting Unitedgirlie (Reply 18):
does everyone know who does jet airways ground handling at heathrow

Mx is by Lufthansa.

Quoting Spink (Reply 27):
Having been to 5 domestic airports in India, the only decent one is Cochin. The new BLR should be nice whenever they manage to finish it.

The 1st part of 1B at Bom is functional.Looks good.The Entire structure scheduled for Feb 2006 completion.Till then it'll be cramped.
After Feb 2006.Things will be better.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
ourboeing
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:29 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 8):
Believe me, Air travelling here in India has far higher service standards than for instance intra-Europe, not to talk about North America

Don't even go there.

Quoting Spink (Reply 17):
IA and AI are pretty bad, but inside india, Jet Airways is great. Just flew from DEL to Leh last week which is a ~55 minute flight. Full meal service, nice crew, good support people in the terminal, etc.

I fly DEL-Chandigarh-DEL whenever I am back home and they have full meal service even on that 35 minute flight. 9W is the pride of Indian Commercial aviation.

OURBOEING
 
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HAWK21M
Posts: 29978
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:36 pm

Quoting Ourboeing (Reply 35):
9W is the pride of Indian Commercial aviation.

IT is giving it good company too.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:20 pm

Air India may be a wretched airline, but its inflight service standards surpass those of most Western carriers.

Its hardware - seats, IFE - remain much to be desired, but their service is good (assuming you don't get a grumpy Grandma), the food is good, they ply you with all the free alcohol you want (probably so that you don't notice the lousy IFE and the tatty seats), and give you those extra precious inches in Economy. And while their J class product isn't up to the standards of BA, it beats AA, UA, and NW hands down for half the price.

However, like with everything else the Indian govt does, an appearance of spit and polish is never on their agenda (just look at any Indian Govt Building - even the Indian Embassy in Washington, DC is a ratty dump). So the interiors look tatty and grim - more Cubana than Singapore Airlines.

In comparison, Jet Airways is all professionalism, bright interiors, smiling crew, brand new planes. They'd be a worthy addition to any major alliance.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
lh477
Posts: 567
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:23 am

RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:48 pm

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 6):
Do any Indian carriers have Western level of inflight service and cleanliness? Jet Airways?

Frankly, Indian carriers should aspire to Eastern Level of Standads, ie. Singapore, Cathay, JAL.......
Come on you gunners......!!!!!
 
Nimish
Posts: 2920
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 pm

RE: Star Alliance In Talks With Indian Carriers

Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:24 pm

Quoting LH477 (Reply 38):
Frankly, Indian carriers should aspire to Eastern Level of Standads, ie. Singapore, Cathay, JAL.......

And most of them meet or beat those standards.
Incredible India!

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