richardw
Posts: 3135
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Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:52 am

Bmi is in a mess, isn't it about time that they called in independent consultants to devise a strategy to sort themselves out?
 
by738
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:00 am

A particular consultant called Dickie Branson perhaps.......
 
richardw
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:12 am

,,,,or Barbara Cassani..
 
BestWestern
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:32 am

Time for major action

1 Close heathrow operation. Sell slots,
2 close regional
3 ditch long haul fleet
4 Close bmibaby brand
5 Commence significant operations ex Manchester, Birmingham and Leeds
6 rename as British Midlands
7 base fleet around a319 - Follow Air France Dedicate concept for long haul ex Manchester and current 'modular' concept for short haul.

By having focus they can succeed.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
flycro
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:16 am

I can't believe you suggest BMI don't have focus!!!!!

Lyon 4 times weekly is pure genius!!!!
 
boysteve
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:17 am

Sorry BestWestern but I differ from your plan.

BMI needs to reassert itself as the UK's second airline and quickly. One of BMI's strengths (when they had some) was being a credible alternative to BA. I believe this was good for competition and still should be. This means regular shuttles from LHR to MAN/EDI/GLA, as well as services to key European destinations, with good consistent service. This market is big enough to support 2 UK carriers. The biggest single complaint I have read in various threads on here is the down-grading of these services to the point where they won't through-check baggage anymore on the cheapest tickets. This needs to be reversed.

I would concentrate the long-haul routes from MAN (yes, I know I'm biased). With good connections provided by BMI domestic/SAS/LH these would be successful. ORD does very well, IAD was successful before they down graded it (73% loadings on an A332, these pax should not have had their quality of service/aircraft sacrificed). LAS appears popular also. I would operate the Mumbai flight from MAN, afterall PK operate 17 times weekly to Pakistan from MAN, so why not any direct India flights? Full co-operation with Star alliance needs to be maintained.

It is only a few years ago that the future looked healthy for BMI, it shouldn't be too difficult to go back if they have the backbone and the balls to do so and admit that things have been unclear of late. I base my views on what would be healthiest for customers from the UK regions as well as for a bmi strategy. Afterall they need to understand the needs of current and potential customers also.

As for BmiBaby. This should run as a totally separate business, maybe drop the bmi and become just 'Baby' as to not confuse marketing strategies and corporate identities. After this I don't really have an opinion as to whether the low cost operation should be sold off completely or not. My only hope is that they keep the same call sign;

"Baby, cleared to land".......... Always makes me  Smile
 
STARCREW
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:44 am

I couldn't take anymore new business models...lets just agree the management should go back to playing with toy train sets.
there is only ONEWORLD
 
schooner
Posts: 138
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:24 am

Lets face it, their f@cked.

Cheers.
Untouched and Alive
 
ZKOJH
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:01 am

bmi = bloody muddle indeed
Vietnam time..
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:40 am

Didn't they just announce that MAN-IAD is being cut? Wow...wonder if UA will pick that up, now that they're getting 4 763's back.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
BestWestern
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:05 pm

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 5):
This market is big enough to support 2 UK carriers

However, there are now five Six significant UK based carriers

1. British Airways
2. easyJet
3. Ryanair
4. Virgin Atlantic
5. Bmi
6. FlyBe

IMHO, Bmi is the weakest of the lot of these, both financially and strategically.

They need to find a market where they can be the strongest player and dominate. That will never be heathrow, where they will continue to struggle. Heathrow slots also have millions and millions of pounds of value attached to them, which can be used to expand the regional operation. Manchester and Birmingham are huge cities crying out for proper air service. British midland can provide this.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
richardw
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:35 pm

Ryanair is significant in the UK, but it dosen't have any UK registered Aircraft.

Does bmi have any trophy routes? LHR-PMI is rumoured because a director apparently likes to go on holiday to PMI.
 
aireuropeuk733
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:39 pm

Quoting STARCREW (Reply 6):
lets just agree the management should go back to playing with toy train sets.

Maybe they could have a go at the PC game Airline 6 before they are let loose on the real thing again...

OR

they could just stick to playing with the Lego airport  Wink

AE733
It's nice to fly with friends
 
cornish
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:43 pm

I'm available to take on the work - providing they give me a nice fat fee  Wink
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
cornish
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:45 pm

Quoting Richardw (Reply 11):
Ryanair is significant in the UK, but it dosen't have any UK registered Aircraft.

But the average Ryanair customer in th eUK probably doesn't know this.

Besides, serving other EU destinations means it doesn't matter that they are non-UK, they are currently the second or third (behind easyJet) biggest carrier in the country. BMI, serving almost entirely domestic and EU destinations, is under a great deal of threat from them.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
LAXintl
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:58 pm

From being a distant observer across the pond but also frequent traveler to the UK, I've never quite figured out were BMI falls as far as type of airline.

Are they a full service airline ala BA, a carrier in the middle trying to cut cost and be efficient, or a LCC ??

Seems every few years the direction of the entire corporation changes. Between routes, aircraft, product offerings etc.
Besides to domestic and European mix ups, I truly cant figure out what their long haul ambitions are with their small A330 fleet. Is it part of Star Alliance strategy to feed North America hubs, leisure to the Caribbean & Las Vegas, or now India and Saudi Arabia from Heathrow?

I can fondly remember taking BD in the 80s and early 90s when the carrier had a very decent domestic and European product, superior to BA's in my opinion. However since about 2000, I have tried to avoid the carrier as each contact with seems to be different leaving me puzzled with the overall inconsistency.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
BA380
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:59 pm

the problem is that if they called consultants in, the would engage 5 different consultancies, give them half a project each, discontiune 2 projects half way through and ensure that none of the parts of the project were based on the same data so they would be useless.

Still, calling in consultants would be preferable to waiting 6 months and then calling in receivers
cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:02 pm

Don't forget EZY carries more pax from the UK into Europe than BA now.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:14 pm

Perhaps it is time for LH to step in - as per the article below Sir Michael Bishop can force LH to acquire the rest of BMI (not sure if it works the other way round though - eg can LH buy the stake whether SMB wishes to sell or not ) maybe LH should do this while there is still some residual value left in the airline - who knows they could even get together with their star partner SQ aand try to finally put into motion the oft discussed combination of BD and VS into a single entity - perhaps if Sir Michael ( and his apparently well known dislike of Sir Richard Branson ) was out of the way this could be made to work


http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1106736980.html

"January 26, 2005
Sir Michael Bishop, half-owner of UK airline bmi, is unlikely to sell his stake in the carrier in the short term, industry sources said on Wednesday amid speculation about the company's ownership.

Under a deal signed in 1999 between bmi and Germany's Lufthansa, Bishop has the right to exercise a put option this year which would force the German carrier to buy his stake in bmi for around GBP£229 million (USD$429.8 million).

Bishop owns 50 percent plus one share of bmi, formerly known as British Midland. Lufthansa owns 30 percent and Scandinavian airline SAS has the remaining 20 percent.

An industry source said it was highly unlikely Bishop would sell as the airline was now recovering from two years of losses and following a management shake-up.

Speculation about the future of Bishop's stake came after the Daily Telegraph newspaper said on Tuesday that Lufthansa had approached British Airways and Virgin Atlantic about selling its stake in bmi.

Another source dismissed the possibility of BA buying Lufthansa's stake in bmi.

Virgin Atlantic also reportedly rejected Lufthansa's approach but said it remained interested in forging closer ties with bmi.

Bmi has recorded two years of losses after a downturn in long-haul travel following the September 2001 attacks on New York, but said last week it expected to report a break even result for calendar 2004 and 2005.

Bmi is a valuable acquisition target for Virgin as the short-haul carrier holds the second-largest number of sought-after takeoff and landing slots at London's congested Heathrow Airport behind BA.

Lufthansa and bmi declined to comment."
 
cornish
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:23 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 18):
Perhaps it is time for LH to step in - as per the article below Sir Michael Bishop can force LH to acquire the rest of BMI (not sure if it works the other way round though - eg can LH buy the stake whether SMB wishes to sell or not ) maybe LH should do this while there is still some residual value left in the airline - who knows they could even get together with their star partner SQ aand try to finally put into motion the oft discussed combination of BD and VS into a single entity - perhaps if Sir Michael ( and his apparently well known dislike of Sir Richard Branson ) was out of the way this could be made to work

Problem is that if LH controlled over 50% of BMI, then they would have to cease the long haul stuff as BMI would no longer be a primarily Uk owned airline. That would mean under existing bilaterals they could fly those India services for example.

Not a problem in theory, as many people have said that BD's long haul aspirations are a joke and they should concentrate on short haul. However that then begs the problem as to what LH would do with it. Could they really make some serious money out of it on purely UK and European flights. The main benefit would be to feed traffic into their FRA and MUC hubs for long haul connections - but they already do that pretty well already in their own name. And they would always prefer to feed star partners long haul traffic into LH short haul at FRA or MUC than BMI flights at LHR.

To be honest BMI would be too much of a headache and not enough gain for LH. Merging with VS is all very well, but again they have to avoid the majority foreign ownership rule - the reason why SQ can't go over 49% of VS.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
BestWestern
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:33 pm

Quoting Richardw (Reply 11):
LHR-PMI is rumoured because a director apparently likes to go on holiday to PMI.

Well, the director is in for a shock with PMI frequencies being hacked this winter down to x3 weekly. I cant believe that Heathrow can only support x3 weekly flights to palma.


Honestly LH should acquire BMI, and run the company from Frankfurt. In this way, they can close the UK management offices and remove all the duplication between the companies. LH would also have a home for their 733's also.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:36 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 19):
Merging with VS is all very well, but again they have to avoid the majority foreign ownership rule - the reason why SQ can't go over 49% of VS.

Isn't this irrelevant in terms of a BD / VS merger? They're both UK owned are they not? Or have I misunderstood you? Tends to happen  Smile
 
BA380
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:39 pm

I have been advocating a LH takeover for some time. It makes sense for all concerned. The current state of affairs is excreble and with LH owning the lot, they could start to make themselves into a truly Europe-wide airline.
cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:40 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 19):
Problem is that if LH controlled over 50% of BMI, then they would have to cease the long haul stuff as BMI would no longer be a primarily Uk owned airline. That would mean under existing bilaterals they could fly those India services for example.

Doooh!!!! good point , hadn't thought that one through  boggled 

Presumably LH have been able to get around this for LX ? perhaps it could be done for BD also in a similar manner - ie put the other 51% stake into some sort of holding company until the bilaterals can be tweaked ( though I suppose both BA and VS would scream and shout - and I guess with LX they ( LH I mean) had the Swiss government on their side - not too sure how interested the UK govt would be in hurrying through amendments to a fistful of bilaterals to assist LH )

seriously though , with the mess that BD seems to be in I could see LH concluding that if they might be forced into "investing" GBP229 million in BD then it is probably better done sooner rather than later in the hope of salvaging something .  Smile
 
cornish
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:41 pm

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 21):
Isn't this irrelevant in terms of a BD / VS merger? They're both UK owned are they not? Or have I misunderstood you? Tends to happen

Sorry I meant in response to the remark about the two merging as part of a LH/SQ get together not as seperate to that. VS is 49% owned by SQ. BD is 20% LH owned and 20% SK owned currently - if LH took over Sir Michael's share then it would be cobnsdierably more than 50% foregin owned.

My brain still hasn't quite woken up yet - hope that makes sense  Smile
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
cornish
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:50 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 23):
Presumably LH have been able to get around this for LX ? perhaps it could be done for BD also in a similar manner - ie put the other 51% stake into some sort of holding company until the bilaterals can be tweaked ( though I suppose both BA and VS would scream and shout - and I guess with LX they ( LH I mean) had the Swiss government on their side - not too sure how interested the UK govt would be in hurrying through amendments to a fistful of bilaterals to assist LH )

I think you've answered your own question - lets face it BD would come a poor third in any govt negotations behind BA and VS. A sad fact, but true.

Quoting BA380 (Reply 22):
I have been advocating a LH takeover for some time. It makes sense for all concerned. The current state of affairs is excreble and with LH owning the lot, they could start to make themselves into a truly Europe-wide airline.

A nice idea, but I truly think LH have enough other issues on their plate (i.e. LX, FRA congestion, etc) to have the time to think about what to do with BD right now.

However, what can't be denied is that BD has a huge value to someone - courtesy of those lucrative slots at LHR, meaning someone would be interested in the airline or its assets. problem is that its incredibly hard to make money within Europe now unless you are a LCC. But a LCC concept would be hard to make work out of LHR. Difficult situation really.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Billy
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:09 pm

Cornish, you are right. Making LCC work out of LHR is tough because you need room to grow, and have slot flexibility to alter your summer and winter programme. LCC's are based on growth, something that BD is not really doing.
 
cornish
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:17 pm

Quoting Billy (Reply 26):
Cornish, you are right. Making LCC work out of LHR is tough because you need room to grow, and have slot flexibility to alter your summer and winter programme. LCC's are based on growth, something that BD is not really doing.

Very true. Also asides from the actual high costs at LHR, the issue of turnaround times and delays at the airport would make true LCC operation a non-starter there.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7039
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:25 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 25):
However, what can't be denied is that BD has a huge value to someone - courtesy of those lucrative slots at LHR, meaning someone would be interested in the airline or its assets.

Apart from the slots, what value does BD offer to LH and SK? It can be argued that LH doesnt need anymore slots at Heathrow. They already have an excellent schedule into germany.

BD offers more potential to LH in increasing their share from the regions, stealing business from KLM and AF.

Lord knows - As long as BD dont go bankrupt before I get to the Magic 150k mileage total on my diamond club card. AKL here we come!
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
jmc757
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:30 pm

Why sort BMI out? Where would we egt our entertainment from then? Let the comedy continue i reckon!
 
cornish
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:31 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 28):
Apart from the slots, what value does BD offer to LH and SK? It can be argued that LH doesnt need anymore slots at Heathrow. They already have an excellent schedule into germany.

Absolutely. I'm talking pure monetary value of the slots if sold. Other airlines would pay megabucks for some of those.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
work4bmi
Posts: 328
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:30 pm

Hello,

Yet more rubbish from those who dont know! Sure, your entitled to have your say - but alot of what I continue to read just makes me laugh. You all seem to forget alot of things, like people work for the airline - so talk of "let someone buy them out" bugs me because its like you dont care for the people who work there.

OFFICIALLY the the UK's 2nd largest airline, so dont know what the below is about?

1. British Airways
2. easyJet
3. Ryanair
4. Virgin Atlantic
5. Bmi
6. FlyBe

"IMHO, Bmi is the weakest of the lot of these, both financially and strategically"...

Hmm, what else. bmibaby fastest growing uk LCC airline and is healthy - it makes a point when staff from rival LCC join the airline - which is happening.

New routes to Lyon, again listening to the customer! and the new model is based on the customer, so for those dont like it - go to BA, but what you gona do when THEY do something you dont like - head off too.....????

And, for bmi staff who post on here - try and be positive!  Smile

This is not a bash all who read this, just those who no matter what, are always anti bmi!!
Fly Around The World : Above & Beyond
 
BlueShamu330s
Posts: 2565
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:39 pm

Quoting Work4bmi (Reply 31):
And, for bmi staff who post on here - try and be positive!

This is not a bash all who read this, just those who no matter what, are always anti bmi!!

oooh, someone's touched a nerve.

You will find that most posters are or were diehard bmi supporters.

Instead of throwing your toys out of the pram, try asking yourself WHY all these people have turned on what was their favourite. I loved bmi. I loved the company, the atmosphere, the working conditions.

But I am SO glad I got out when I did. The dark clouds were forming then, 18 months ago. Even then, people like you were saying bmi was, is and ever shall be the best. Well, let me tell you, 4 or 5 years ago we would almost all have agreed with you.

Problem is, too many flawed managers with too many flawed strategies make for a totally flawed company.

Stop listening to your intranet spin and start listening to the customers, otherwise we will all be reminiscing "Do you remember bmi? great airline last century."

Mark my words, the world isn't rose tinted outside and beyond Donny Hall.

Shamu
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
aireuropeuk733
Posts: 944
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:41 pm

Quoting Work4bmi (Reply 31):
talk of "let someone buy them out" bugs me because its like you dont care for the people who work there.

Just because someone may advocate that LH should buy out BMI doesn't mean that the staff would suffer. Indeed, maybe the prospective purchaser would make shares available to the workforce ala an MBO or an LBO?

Whose also to say that if a buyer did come in an and tinker with the workforce that BMI wouldn't have done that anyway.

I don't think anyone on this forum would want staff redundancies/layoffs etc at BMI it is the strategy (or lack of it) that they are questioning.

AE733
It's nice to fly with friends
 
Skymonster
Posts: 3428
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:47 pm

Quoting Work4bmi (Reply 31):
Yet more rubbish from those who dont know!

Yet more rubbish from someone who's swallowed the output from the Donington Hall propaganda machine hook line and sinker.

Quoting Work4bmi (Reply 31):
OFFICIALLY the the UK's 2nd largest airline, so dont know what the below is about? 1. British Airways 2. easyJet 3. Ryanair 4. Virgin Atlantic 5. Bmi 6. FlyBe "IMHO, Bmi is the weakest of the lot of these, both financially and strategically"...

OK Work4, which of those six would you put money on NOT being in its current shape or form in twelve months time? You know the answer, because even in the very unlikely event the new business model stacks up, the muppets on the top floor will change things again anyway.

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:47 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 32):
You will find that most posters are or were diehard bmi supporters.

Instead of throwing your toys out of the pram, try asking yourself WHY all these people have turned on what was their favourite. I loved bmi. I loved the company, the atmosphere, the working conditions.

Thanks Shamu. You are so right. most of the people on here who are critical of BMI and their current direction are people who have openly said that they were regular BMI users, real fans of the airline, who are sad to see what it has turned into.

I loved BMI as a business airline in the past, a real gem in the industry - but that is sadly no more, and for many of us it the frustration of what it is turning into that makes us so critical of it.

As I've said before, this is completely unlike some of the regular themes on A.net, where the criticisers being people who prefer another airline and will automatically flame their rivals. Here it is people who cared about BD who hate to see it go this way, and are forced to find alternative carriers now.

Quoting Work4bmi (Reply 31):
Yet more rubbish from those who dont know! Sure, your entitled to have your say - but alot of what I continue to read just makes me laugh.

Some of us do actually know what we are talking about when it comes to this industry.....

Quoting Work4bmi (Reply 31):
OFFICIALLY the the UK's 2nd largest airline, so dont know what the below is about?

1. British Airways
2. easyJet
3. Ryanair
4. Virgin Atlantic
5. Bmi
6. FlyBe

Carrying more passengers overall than FR or U2 - I don't think so. perhaps more passengers than VS, but then as VS concentrate on long haul services that's no surprise. In terms of brand recognition, BD must come behind BA, VS, FR and U2 with the UK public....
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
BestWestern
Posts: 7039
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:58 pm

Quoting Work4bmi (Reply 31):
so for those dont like it - go to BA, but what you gona do when THEY do something you dont like - head off too.....????

Dont you love it! That's the attitude I'm seeing from BD thesedays. With that attitude you dont deserve to survive. Perhaps, I will do that. How does that fit into what you said above about the new model being based around the customer. I am a BD gold card carrier, and fly with you guys very very frequently. I'm annoyed that the carrier is going down the tubes and is directionless, and alienating their frequent fliers.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 32):
I loved bmi. I loved the company, the atmosphere

As a passenger, me too. No longer.

Quoting Work4bmi (Reply 31):
OFFICIALLY the the UK's 2nd largest airline

Sorry, but thats bull. The UK's second largest airline is EasyJet, followed by Ryanair. (and Yes I know Ryanair is Irish). BD is 4th. BD is the second largest airline from Heathrow. Get your facts right.

Quoting Work4bmi (Reply 31):
New routes to Lyon

Whohoo! a three WEEKLY route. What about all the routes dropped, schedules changed, flights cancelled, subleased 732's etc. yo-yoing BOM schedules, will they wont they to KSA, IAD, YYZ etc.

Quoting Work4bmi (Reply 31):
bmibaby fastest growing uk LCC airline

Yet again, someone has swallowed the PR spin. What about Thompsonfly and FlyBe. BmiBaby is the fastest growing UK LCC airline with a baby on its tail.

Quoting Work4bmi (Reply 31):
and is healthy

Point me to one press release that shows WW made a yearly profit.

Quoting Work4bmi (Reply 31):
again listening to the customer! and the new model is based on the customer

Bull. How many BD customers asked for flight reductions, cancellations, etc. Amazing that on Flyertalk not one BD customer was asked his/her opinion. New model based on the customer... bull. Which customer asked for

1 - reduced baggage allowance
2 - no interline
3 - closure of business lounges
4 - mandatory use of self service check-in
5- basic elimination of FFP's on lower fares
6 - excluding their top tier customers from lounges on lowest fare tickets. Hello - Loyalty is a two way thing.
7 - exclusion from bringing your own food onboard.


aaarrrggggghhh.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
Billy
Posts: 890
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:04 pm

I think that BMI is in the position that BCal were in; too small to be big, too big to be small. They need to radically re-engineer their business (as FlyBe had to). If they are lo-co, drop the long hauls, regional jets and invest in Baby. Alternatively, become Star's version of KLM UK/Cityhopper, feeding the hubs and living off the pro-rates, but again dropping non-core routes (like the long hauls, but also Baby, and non-hub regional sevices). BMI is three or four airlines and it cannot cope with the complexities that this throws up.

Being acquired is not really an option. Why should airlines acquire other airlines when they can use their services from inside an alliance. Alternatively, wait for them to go broke and pick up the pieces you want. Also, no airline wants to spend money on more airline acquisition as it brings more grief. LH and SK want out not more of BMI, believe me.

Current strategy is tinkering. A lot of pride needs swallowing.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:07 pm

Quoting Skymonster (Reply 34):
because even in the very unlikely event the new business model stacks up, the muppets on the top floor will change things again anyway

Hell, they have already announced changes at regional, and are planning to review the remaining business class by the end of the year. Someone should tell BD that regional business jet routes dont work x3 weekly.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 32):
Well, let me tell you, 4 or 5 years ago we would almost all have agreed with you.

When BD relaunched in 1999/2000 their concept was superb. Thats the concept they should have kept, and believed in. First mistake was baby - BD should have launched those flights with their own branding.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:29 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 38):
LH and SK want out not more of BMI, believe me.

I can believe it , but LH may not have a choice if Sir Michael Bishop forces them to purchase the remaining 51% as per their 1999 agreement - then they will have to try to make the best of a bad situation
 
BestWestern
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:22 am

Quoting Work4bmi (Reply 31):
so for those dont like it - go to BA, but what you gona do when THEY do something you dont like

Like their staff downing tools for the afternoon????  flamed 

I'd  airplane  Air France!  Smile
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
vs25
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:59 am

Like the rest of many people here, I am/was a big lover of BMI. The fares from LHR have got no cheaper. Ok so the headline price may be less, but it still is a minimum of £70 for me to get to MME. It has been for 2 years or so, but now I don't get any miles (not even 25%) and not even a gin and tonic onboard.

They can and never will be low cost from LHR. Get over it. Not everyone wants a low cost fare. There are loads of people that live in South West and West London where LHR is really the only practical choice of airport. With all the reductions in service and routes we're basically left with BA, or connecting thru FRA or CDG, and I'm sorry, but the EU is too small for me to want to connect for an EU destination.

I think the best thing BMI ever did was introduce one-way fares and changeable tickets (for a fee). It might have hurt yields, but it made them a far more attractive prospect financially than flying BA who still screw you unless you have a saturday night stay, even on domestic.

I've said this many times, but I believe that BMI should concentrate on making MAN a viable long haul hub. The market is there. Not everyone lives within driving distance of the M25. Let's see NYC, BOS, SFO, IAD and the rest. Feed into MAN and into LHR. Concentrate on connecting the cities of the UK and EU to LHR and MAN. Sod it... move to MAN and feed everything into there. Sell your LHR slots to VS (who will pay handsomely for them). Bring back the service with a smile, warm sausage baguettes for breakfast and my gin and tonic!!!!
 
BCAL
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:18 am

Quoting Billy (Reply 37):
I think that BMI is in the position that BCal were in; too small to be big, too big to be small

I disagree. BCal had totally different problems from bmi. For starters, they were never allowed access to LHR (that privilege was given to VS who would not be around today if LHR was opened up to BCal). They competed with BA, when BA was a state-owned and heavily subsidised enterprise (BCal never received any subsidy). The recommendation of the UK Civil Aviation Board that BCal be designated the UK's second carriers was thwarted by the Thatcher's Government's plans to privatise BA. I could go on but then I would be hijacking the thread!

BCal!
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
work4bmi
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:31 am

Hello,

Thanks for the replies... I totally respect all of your posts and or course enjoy to read them. I have not been baffled with the "science" part, or PR spin etc... I just feel that despite peoples views on the airline, it still has a strong hold on the market and is still a worthy airline.

Whenever there has been times to change for global,economical reasons etc... the airline has adjusted and continued. I personally enjoyed the long haul product introduction and hope it continues to grow.

I also, as I know plenty of them - repsect those who use the airline often, it is you who keep the airline going at the end of the day. So, as many are users of the airline - what would you all like to see changed.

if you were able to change the product, what would you change? I will expect a few people to say "buy bmi out"... but seriously, as a passenger what you like to see?
Fly Around The World : Above & Beyond
 
STARCREW
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:36 pm

Quoting Work4bmi (Reply 31):
And, for bmi staff who post on here - try and be positive

well you are obviously not customer facing.... I can't be positive, the new business model has been introduced in a completely inept way from not telling customers about the changes to not having enough sandwiches onboard. Its amateur night.......

I've had enough and after 14 years of flying for British Midland and now bmi I'm off to BA. I used to be proud to fly for bmi but not anymore.

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 32):
Problem is, too many flawed managers with too many flawed strategies make for a totally flawed company.

totally agree

RIP British Midland

[Edited 2005-08-12 05:45:26]
there is only ONEWORLD
 
STARCREW
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:17 pm

and another thing...

You cannot bring in a low cost concept at LHR! It is not a low cost airport, it is expensive to fly from and its congested. Low cost principles dictate quick turnarounds and slot availability for growth. You cannot do that at LHR.

Business people use LHR, they want connections, interlining of bags, convenient frequencies, a separate cabin with a quality onboard product and quality ground facilities.

You cannot start routes, then drop them, change times, change frequencies, bring in an ill thought out onboard product, reduce the crew to the minimum and go an hire aload of 18yr olds and then expect your high revenue, frequent flyer customers to stay with you!!!!

BA must be laughing all the way to the bank...
there is only ONEWORLD
 
BestWestern
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:08 pm

Quoting STARCREW (Reply 45):
You cannot ...bring in an ill thought out onboard product, ....and then expect your high revenue, frequent flyer customers to stay with you!!!!

I have no problem with BD implementing a buy-onboard concept - its a great idea.... I do have a problem in the way they have done it, as it will not save them much cash, as they still have the fixed costs of flight servicing as Business class remains on at least half the daily heathrow departures.

The margin costs of the food dissappear, but the fixed costs of servicing the aircraft remain.

Cant they learn from the little greeen airline that they park beside in the airport each day - the little green airline that realised it also had to drop business to Heathrow to save millions in fixed costs.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
Skymonster
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:08 pm

Work4, I understand your loyalty to the company - I was an inmate of Donington Hall for nine years as you know, and I too was proud of the company and what it was doing. Back in the late-80s and early-90s, British Midland was riding the crest of a wave with its "Diamond Service" - it was far better than the BA Shuttle and indeed was a part of the reason why BA abandoned LHR-BFS where BM had won over 50% of the market. During that era, British Midland had a BETTER product than the competition and it won high-yield business on that basis.

What's happened since is a sad and sorry decline. Seperate cabins may have been seen to be the way to go at the time, but that was the start of the rot down the back that has now consumed the front cabin too. The Scandos and the Germans didn't help, in some cases forcing the company to retrench and to cut back on its ambitions to be serious competition to BA out of LHR across Europe - when British Midland flew LHR-FRA several times a day, the product was better than both BA and LH, but of course Luftwaffe didn't like the "in-house" competition.

Since then the company has gone through a whole series of often ill-thought out knee-jerk reactive changes whilst trying to find a new niche for itself. Reduced service levels, erratic schedules, long haul at MAN, and worst of all the cynical and vindictive setting up of Baby as a reaction to Go pitching into its home base, and airport where the airline claimed it had never made money. Of course the advent of SleasyJet and O'Leary Air didn't help, but eventually instead of differentiating itself from the low-fares bmi has tried to go the same way - problem is the playing field isn't level because bmi will never be low cost and it will never be low-fare to the same extent as the competition can be.

The one thing that really bothers me in all of this is why SMDB is letting it happen. Maybe he really doesn't care, as has been suggested above. But BM has always been his trainset, and I'm surprised he's letting it go like it is - usually, when things get bad at BM changes in the board usually follow sooner or later. Maybe that will happen again - question is, what will be left to be picked up again this time around?

Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
 
Orion737
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:27 pm

Call in the consultants? Call in the men in white coats more like!!
 
BestWestern
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RE: Bmi - Call In The Consultants?

Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:52 pm

Quoting Skymonster (Reply 47):
worst of all the cynical and vindictive setting up of Baby as a reaction to Go pitching into its home base

For me, this one move has completly distracted BMI senior management for over three years. It resulted in BD taking their eye of their problems at Heathrow (their core operation), and focusing on follies, such as a damplease codeshare ATR services between Cardiff and Prestwick.

Now, three years later they are making the knee-jerk reactions to issues they should have done solved years ago.. BD dont know what to do anymore, and are making a huge mistake in creating customer confusion at Heathrow. The Baby operation had many false dawns prior to becoming the tail wagging the dog we see today...

Back then, it was a typical BD reaction to anything not BD even dreaming of landing at EMA. BD did the same to KL and WX when they started operations at EMA.

Baby will kill BD. As long as I use my Diamond Club miles before it happens, I dont care anymore. As the BD staff member has suggested above, I'll fly BA.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!