GVBIG
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BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:31 pm

Read this on PPRUNE.

8 Routes suspended at MAN – 11th September - Shannon, Zurich; Winter 2005 - Cork, Nice, Pisa, Rome, Stuttgart and Venice. 2 Routes suspended at BHX – Winter 2005 - Rome, Vienna.

All RJ100s at MAN leaving. The 3 Bae 146s staying in the fleet now (IOM,INV and MAN)

Fleet size to be 50 comprising: 28 x ERJ145's, 13 x RJ100/146's, 8 x Dash 8Q300 & 1 x B767.

Very bad news for BA @ MAN, so how long until MAN-JFK is dropped?
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Pe@rson
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RE: BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:32 pm

You're too late: this was already discussed in the thread about MAN.
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GVBIG
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RE: BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:34 pm

Yes, but this includes BHX news and many people won't read the MAN thread.
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BlueShamu330s
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RE: BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:59 pm

Below is a copy of my response on the MAN thread, FWIW.

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 59):
BACX are suspending the following routes: SNN, ZRH wef 11/09, also ORK,NCE,FCO,VCE,PSA,STR all at MAN along with FCO & VIE from BHX

Another sad day in the slow and continual demise of BA ops. anywhere other than London. Having just got back from NCE, all I can say to management is "You did it to yourselves."

On the way out: G-MANS BAe146-200: u/s Club toilet, a piece of light trim falling from the flourescent strips onto a mightily pissed off lady in 2A, no tax free sales (Sorry, the flight's not long enough - it was 2 1/2 hours for God's sake!), no priority baggage tagging.

On the return: G-GNTZ BAe146-200: Pre-assigned seats not honoured, my meal tray had a broken handle which meant it was continuously in the down position (purser said "Don't worry, it's been like that a while!),Purser overheard saying "My legs are killing me so let's get this over and done with quickly" - drinks, meal, coffee and duty free all done within 45 minutes of airborne; NO drinks service with the meal, they followed the girl doing coffee with the tax free trolley whilst we were all still eating (some duck and noodle crap which could have been any fowl sic, and probably was). They served a womean in 4C a vegetarian meal which she promptly and very loudly spat out.....because it was meat, cabin crew not seen again as they hid behind galley curtain, ignoring call bells (there were 22 of us in Club) until descent commenced. Mrs Shamu asked for a bottle of wine (after she'd eaten her meal without anything to drink). The stewardess said "I think we've run out." How can you run out if you've not even done a drinks round ! She came back down the aisle with an armfull of champagne and wine, seemingly expecting anyone who wanted a drink to stop her for one. Not surprisingly, no-one fancied white wine with coffee. Forward Toilet again u/s. Cruise was a pathetic (even for a knackered 146) FL 240 - bumpy all the way home. Baggage took FIFTY minutes to get on the belt from engine shut down at a time when there was only one other flight into T3.

The experience was shocking. Despite being eligible for staff travel, over time I have still managed to accumulate over 300,000 BA Miles. From the heady days of flying First Class with BA non-stop to Hong Kong from MAN, we are reduced to a swarm of knackered turboprops and cramped Amazons flying mainly domestics. Where has the fight, the spirit that was BA gone ? ( And don't say "TO LONDON!") Almost any route BA have pulled off, someone has made a better go of it afterwards.

Does Manchester need BA? Does BA need Manchester? NO to the first and Only for the Shuttle to the second.

Does this give a golden opportunity to GB Airways to step in and take up some of the routes ? I was amazed we had 22 Club passengers on our NCE in a little 146. There must be yield in some of these routes with premium loads that good.

BA is not the higher power controlling Manchester's destiny, despite the fact it likes to flex its muscles and object when carriers want to start routes from there. Manchester Airport is the master of its own destiny. It should take this opportunity to give BA a reality check with a huge kick up the a$$. If BACX's MAN ops are reduced to mainly props, then force them all to park remote in what used to be the south bay, releasing T3 for operators serious about their commitment to the airport.

Who knows, even someone in BMI might have the foresight to see that BA's loss could be someone else's golden egg.

Regards

Shamu
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skidmarks
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RE: BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:22 pm

One further note on this subject. Tha RJ100's being sub-leased are the steep approach compliant aircraft. The rest don't have the mod. One has to wonder what will happen to the LCY routes. Either that or BACX have 3 months or so to get the rest modded up.

Andy  old 
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AIR MALTA
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RE: BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes...

Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:53 pm

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 4):
One has to wonder what will happen to the LCY routes.

BACX said that the RJ100s will be redeployed at LCY and EDI so may be new routes will ba added to those cities...
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Propman
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RE: BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes...

Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:32 pm

No surprises here: going all the way back to 1946 and the foundation of BEA, BA/BEA/BOAC have never given a damn about MAN, their attitude always being, if it ain't from LHR, we're not interested.

egs: 1946, first MAN-LHR service wasn't BEA (they couldn't be bothered), but when BEA saw the success being made of it by a small independent airline, they promptly used their then monopoly powers to boot the other airline off the service and took it over themselves.

1953: first scheduled transatlantic service from MAN was flown by Sabena, not BOAC, who, not until a year later, reluctantly agreed to route one of their LHR-NY services via MAN. Sabena eventually gave up this service in the early 1960s, citing as the prime reason, BOAC's "dog in a manger" attitude.

1970s: BOAC operated several flights daily across the Atlantic to destinations in the USA, Canada and the Caribbean. Today, all of these, bar a once daily flight to JFK, have been axed. Yet Delta, Continental, US Airways, BMI and others are all making good money operating transatlantic flights from MAN to several destinations.

As Blue Shamu says, fortunately, these days, MAN is no longer heavily dependant on BA and there are plenty of other airlines who will no doubt step into the breach, tho it will be a hard blow to the airport initially. Apparently BA expect passengers on the axed services to go to their destinations via LHR after September-a dramatic step back to the 1960s.

I flew MAN to Brussels with BA last year on a RJ100. We paid top dollar for our seats, which were ridiculously cramped and in no way was it a better experience than flying with Easyjet for example.
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7LBAC111
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RE: BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes...

Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:16 pm

Quoting GVBIG (Thread starter):
8 Routes suspended at MAN – 11th September - Shannon, Zurich; Winter 2005 - Cork, Nice, Pisa, Rome, ... and Venice.

Interestingly these are all routes with considerable low cost competition in WW and LS.

Quoting GVBIG (Thread starter):
Very bad news for BA @ MAN, so how long until MAN-JFK is dropped?

Hopefully this will be upgraded reather than axed. Isn;t it highly profitable??

7LBAC111
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cambrian
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RE: BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes...

Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:18 pm

Quoting Propman (Reply 6):
I flew MAN to Brussels with BA last year on a RJ100. We paid top dollar for our seats, which were ridiculously cramped and in no way was it a better experience than flying with Easyjet for example.

Believe me, this is in no way restricted to MAN. BA mainline short haul services out of Heathrow are equally bad these days- the cabins of their A32X planes are looking increasingly worn, and the 767's are grim.

As for the service, in Club it is pretty non-existent. On recent flights to NCE and BCN, when I complained about the mediocre service, I was told that the flight was too busy or too short to serve passengers properly.

This is a spurious excuse given that on LX flights to Zurich (flight time can be as short as 1.05) you get pre-flight champagne, separate meal and dessert/ice cream service, coffee and duty free.

I now actively avoid BA in Europe where possible. Next week I am going to Athens, but I am taking Swiss business class from LCY and changing in ZRH- much better service, a more convenient airport, and much cheaper than BA.
 
BA380
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RE: BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes...

Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:20 pm

I flew with BACX from DUS to BHX last week on a ARJ 100 - although the plane seemed a little tired, the flight was good, service very friendly, the food good and from arrival at gate to being on the pavement outside took 4 minutes. I thought it was a pretty decent service.
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Pe@rson
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RE: BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes...

Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:10 pm

No wonder it's possible to get £44.60 return deals from MAN to the IOM onboard BA.  Wink
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mrniji
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RE: BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes...

Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:20 pm

Shamu,

you should write a TR for the forum  Smile
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7LBAC111
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RE: BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes...

Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:42 pm

I have just been reading TTG this week, and actually it appears there are many associated issues with BA dropping these routes. Not least, job losses.

It also says that Citiexpresses sole transatalntic route, MAN-JFK may face the chop next year when the lease on its 767 expires, ... thought to be brought about by Continentals decision to go 2x daily

However BACX say We don't have any plans to announce that we are going any further

Interesting.

7LBAC111
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squirrel83
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RE: BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes...

Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:11 pm

Quoting GVBIG (Thread starter):
; Winter 2005 - Cork, Nice, Pisa, Rome, Stuttgart and Venice. 2 Routes suspended at BHX – Winter 2005 - Rome, Vienna.

Does the winter schedual include Febuary?
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7LBAC111
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RE: BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes...

Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:15 pm

Quoting Squirrel83 (Reply 13):
Does the winter schedual include Febuary?

Erm yes. Winter schedule is up to 25 March 2006.

7LBAC111
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oly720man
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RE: BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes...

Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:26 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 12):
It also says that Citiexpresses sole transatalntic route, MAN-JFK may face the chop next year when the lease on its 767 expires, ... thought to be brought about by Continentals decision to go 2x daily

So will this open the MAN-JFK route to another carrier? AA?

If anything it'll p!ss off my parents who go fairly regularly to the US to visit my brother who lives in Connecticut. They can't abide EWR. Ah well, looks like BOS for them if no-one else comes in..
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mainMAN
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RE: BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes...

Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:29 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 12):
It also says that Citiexpresses sole transatalntic route, MAN-JFK may face the chop next year when the lease on its 767 expires, ... thought to be brought about by Continentals decision to go 2x daily

Bearing in mind that BA is making money, so we're constantly being told, this is pathetic. If BA and AA decide on a seamless transfer of service from one to the other, I wouldn't complain. Or DL

CO's double daily to EWR hasn't increased available seats two-fold, so what's the problem?

I can feel some sort of representation to the MEN travel editor coming on about BA. Manchester Chamber of Commerce, and the CBI North West would be extremely pissed off if this is true.

Exactly the sort of thing they should be investigating, or certainly used to make a lot of noise about.
 
whitehatter
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RE: BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes...

Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:08 am

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 15):

So will this open the MAN-JFK route to another carrier? AA?

There could be a couple of possibles, including DL who could reactivate the route if they thought they could make it work.
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Crosswind
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RE: BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes...

Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:23 am

The actual operation of the MAN-JFK route isn't really anything to do with CitiExpress - at one stage BA did advise passengers that the flight was operated by CitiExpress because some CitiExpress cabin crew are used on the service.

However the flight is now denoted as operated by British Airways. The 767 is a mainline aircraft as are the flightdeck crew, but some of the cabin crew are employed by CitiExpress.

There's no way G-BNWH is leased to CitiExpress, and from next year the long-haul 767s will all be a standard CWY configuration, at that stage there will no longer be a dedicated Manchester-based 767 and aircraft will rotate through Manchester as maintenance etc dictates.

Booking advice for BA1502/3 from ba.com
Operated by British Airways
31in seat pitch (78cm), lumbar support and adjustable headrest
Complimentary 3 course meal and drinks
Easier check-in online or using Self-Service Check-in kiosks
World class in-flight shopping at www.ba-shoppingtheworld.com
This fare is ineligible for Executive Club Tier Points
The reliability and reassurance of flying British Airways


If it were a CitiExpress aircraft, the first comment above in bold would say British Airways Citiexpress and the second comment in bold is ommitted - after all you wouldn't be flying British Airways!

Regards
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Demoose
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RE: BA To Drop 8 MAN Routes And 2 BHX Routes...

Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:42 am

The BA MAN-JFK flight always creates confusion as to who it is actually operated by. I was on the train to work last week sat next to the senior cabin crew member for the JFK flight that day, who was employed by British Airways Citiexpress. If the route is making a profit are BA likely to keep this route going or can we expect them to drop it, perhaps to be taken up by AA or another US based carrier I wonder. It just stands out a bit from BA's route network with it being the only long haul route outside of London.
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