Indy
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NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:03 am

In a story related to NW's walkout plans it was noted that they are dropping the SEA seasonal service and adding a 4th daily flight to LGA.

"The airline intends to end seasonal service from Indianapolis to Seattle two days early, on Aug. 19, Ebenhoch said. However, the airline also plans to add a fourth daily departure to New York's LaGuardia Airport."

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...=/20050812/BUSINESS/508120461/1003

Is the LGA flight that big of a money maker? This will give the route two CRJ's and two DC9's.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
TWFirst
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:24 am

It doesn't say that they're permanently ending seasonal IND-SEA service... but rather that they're ending it a couple days earlier than planned this year.
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SRT75
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:28 am

The competition is 7 ERJ flights by US. Seems like an awful lot of flights (and reminds me of your other thread--Is IND over served?).

Best explanation is a lot of business travel (including same day return). That would mean a lot of full-fare passengers, which can make the flights profitable at lower load factors.

LGA is probably more convenient than JFK for the business person who has a meeting in Manhattan in the afternoon and plans to return home that night.
 
Indy
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:37 am

Is that really bad? Just checked and NY runs 1000 seats a day which is up there with LAS and MCO. Last I checked WN, NW, FL and TZ fly nonstop to MCO with similar demand. So you are talking a minimum of 4 mainline flights a day to MCO. With LGA you are looking at two mainline between NW and US. Then again they can't be making much money off the MCO route.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:45 am

Actually, I have a feeling that they are doing this due to the strike, hints, getting another plane back, instead of using a plane from IND-SEA-IND rather they can just book them through MSP, DTW, or Memphis. The dates that they changed it to are perfect timing for it, im sure it will return next year.
 
azjubilee
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 3:46 am

They moved the beginning of the fall schedule up a few weeks to August 20 to limit the impact should a strike occur on the 20th. The fall schedule has fewer flights, therefore fewer opportunities to affect people.


AZJ
 
Cubsrule
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 3:58 am

I've heard here that US has very good yields ex-LGA but often only marginal loads. That's why you'll see cheap connections through LGA from time to time- any money they can make on the empty seats is basically pure profit. New service will surely dilute loads, but if the yields can take it, it's good for consumers.
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luv2fly
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 5:13 am

Remember the Alaska cruise season is coming to an end, usually lasts until the middle of September.
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knope2001
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 5:33 am

The IND-SEA nonstop was only planned to be "seasonal", and I recall in early July seeing that it was planned to end prior to Labor Day weekend. I don't think this is something they quickly decided to pull in anticipation of the strike. Back when the schedule was loaded the cooling-off clock had not yet been started.
 
Indy
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 5:36 am

I also noticed in the schedule that DEN which was supposed to be year round ends on Oct 28th. Is that a seasonal victim as well?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 5:39 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 9):
I also noticed in the schedule that DEN which was supposed to be year round ends on Oct 28th. Is that a seasonal victim as well?

Its still in the system from the 29th but after that it appears gone.
 
LGAtoIND
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 5:47 am

The LGA-IND flight has an A319 on the route, not 2 DC 9s, like someone said earlier. I think the LGA-IND flight has a 319, but coming back the other way there is none for some reason.
 
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jetpixx
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 5:49 am

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 2):
LGA is probably more convenient than JFK for the business person who has a meeting in Manhattan in the afternoon and plans to return home that night.

In my experience flying into NYC - I find JFK so much more convenient with connections to the AirTrain, subway and LIRR nearly seemless. LGA is not nearly as connected to public transportation - unless you want to take a stanky bus or an expensive cab ride down to Manhattan. I think if JFK promoted themselves as such, they'd have a lot more domestic travel if they wanted it.
 
7e72004
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 5:50 am

What airport would be more convenient if i wanted to take a day trip to NYC?
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Indy
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 5:50 am

Quoting LGAtoIND (Reply 11):
The LGA-IND flight has an A319 on the route, not 2 DC 9s, like someone said earlier. I think the LGA-IND flight has a 319, but coming back the other way there is none for some reason.

It does seem odd that 146 is a DC9 but 147 is an A319.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
FoxBravo
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:03 am

I flew round trip LGA to IND on NW on a random weekend this past spring, and both flights were packed. Doesn't say anything about yields (I know my fare was pretty darn cheap), but there is definitely plenty of demand, and sometimes with enough butts filling seats you can still make money even with relatively low yields.

Quoting Jetpixx (Reply 12):
unless you want to take a stanky bus or an expensive cab ride down to Manhattan.

Just for the record, the M60 bus to Manhattan is not "stanky", nor is any other MTA bus I've seen lately. They're quite clean, modern and comfortable. Slow, yes, but not stanky!  Smile Besides, it's hard to beat the $2.00 fare.

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 13):
What airport would be more convenient if i wanted to take a day trip to NYC?

For pure convenience when you don't have a lot of time, it's hard to beat LGA. You can get to Manhattan in 15 minutes by cab (for $20-$25 including tip and toll) if it's not rush hour. I would say EWR is a close second--you can take the monorail from the terminal to the train station, then it's a 15-minute ride to Penn Station for $11. This depends on train schedules, though--at night and on weekends there can be a long wait until the next train if you don't time it just right. JFK is also not bad now that the AirTrain is up and running. It's a short ride to Jamaica, then maybe 15 minutes on the LIRR to Penn Station, and those trains run frequently. I don't recommend the subway from JFK, especially if you're not familiar with the city. Like the M60 bus from LGA, it's cheap but can be pretty slow.
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m404
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:37 am

It's pretty transparent that they are calling the August 20 schedule change "the Fall Schedule". Fall always was after Labor day before. Less hours flying to help if mechs strike OR/AND are locked out. I'd liked to have seen the load factors on IND/SEA flights vs the MEM/SEA. We could not seem to get enough seats out of MEM. Always full in summer at least with cruise and normal SEA loads.
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fedexexpress
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:27 pm

Look for NWA to add SFO, and YYZ. I think those 2 routes would be good for NWA. Eric
"Its not what your country can do for you its what you can do for your country" JFK
 
Indy
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:31 pm

SFO maybe because its a decent market and unserved nonstop. Not sure about YYZ since AC already flies that route.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
fedexexpress
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:35 pm

YYZ flies the really small aircraft, I think a nice CRJ with NWA from IND would work fine!!
"Its not what your country can do for you its what you can do for your country" JFK
 
ejmmsu
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:38 pm

Does anyone know how the loads are doing on the IND-DFW runs?
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Indy
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:40 pm

Is there enough demand for 40 - 50 additional seats a day to YYZ?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
fedexexpress
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:43 pm

Who knows you might just kick out Air Canada. I dont even call that Air Canada. It looks like a private airplane really. I want to see the pretty Air Canada birds wont happen i know. Would be awesome to see a A319 here in the Air Canada colors though!!! Eric
"Its not what your country can do for you its what you can do for your country" JFK
 
Indy
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:49 pm

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 20):
Does anyone know how the loads are doing on the IND-DFW runs?

The seat maps don't look TOO bad. They are charging a high price in my opinion. I'm guessing the yields are relatively good.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 3:06 pm

Just found out the likely reason that they are dropping those flights for a bit is because of the new Midwest-Las Vegas service that they need those A319's, though Denver flight was always full... maybe when they get their other A319s that are on order they will serve it once again.
 
Indy
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 3:20 pm

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 24):
Just found out the likely reason that they are dropping those flights for a bit is because of the new Midwest-Las Vegas service that they need those A319's, though Denver flight was always full... maybe when they get their other A319s that are on order they will serve it once again.

Thanks for the heads up on that.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
azjubilee
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:05 pm

Huh? the new LAS service starts October 30. Why would they end service in August for flying that starts in practically November? August 20 is the beginning of the first fall schedule. These are SEASONAL pull downs that happen each year. Everyone is reading too far into this. And for crying out LOUD! You CANNOT determine load factos by looking at the seat maps on NWA.com!!


AZJ
 
burnsie28
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:56 am

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 26):
Huh? the new LAS service starts October 30. Why would they end service in August for flying that starts in practically November? August 20 is the beginning of the first fall schedule. These are SEASONAL pull downs that happen each year. Everyone is reading too far into this. And for crying out LOUD! You CANNOT determine load factos by looking at the seat maps on NWA.com!!

Which is the day before the IND-Denver flight ends. Ive been looking in PARS for flight loads as ive tried to non-rev on it before, with no success.

As for the Seattle flight, they are doing it to free up a 319 in case the strike goes ahead.
 
azjubilee
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:35 am

Burnsie -IND-SEA was always slated as seasonal for the summer. It just so happens they've moved the fall schedule start date up a few weeks. It isn't solely for this route, but systemwide should a strike occur.


AZJ
 
LambertMan
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:47 am

Quoting Fedexexpress (Reply 22):
Who knows you might just kick out Air Canada. I dont even call that Air Canada. It looks like a private airplane really. I want to see the pretty Air Canada birds wont happen i know. Would be awesome to see a A319 here in the Air Canada colors though!!! Eric

AC uses DH-8's on the IND-YYZ route, so any resistance by NW may result in them dropping the route. It is a possibility, IMO.

We'll just have to play the Seattle service by ear. I thought that when NW started the route that it had alot of potential. If it doesn't come back next year, don't be surprised to see SFO started in some form.
 
MAH4546
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:56 am

The Seattle route will return next year as long as the cruise ship revenue guarantees return, and there is no reason to think that won't happen.
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SRT75
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RE: NW Dropping SEA, Adding 4th LGA @ IND

Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:52 am

Quoting Fedexexpress (Reply 17):
Look for NWA to add SFO

Wouldn't SEA year-round make more sense than adding SFO because of NW's partnership with Alaska. Provided they code-share and coordinate scheduling, a SEA flight would equate to a gateway to all of the NorthWest for IND pax on NW.