Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 123): Something I don't quite understand is how did the F-16 pilots manage to get such a good view of what was going on inside that 737?

If the shades are open on both sides it's pretty easy. They just need to get the view back lit from the windows on the farside, i.e. the F16 pilots line of view needs to be straight thru the cabin from one window belt to the other.
Since the O2 masks hang right in that line of view they should have been easy to spot if deployed.

The cockpit, with the bigger windows, is even easier.

Quoting Fergulmcc (Reply 149): Hear hear, I am an ex aircraft mechanic, 747 Engine maintenance. Thankfully I worked in a company where everything was adhered to. Lets be carefull when speculating.

Indeed. The problems with Alaskan was not speculation though, it says in the NTSB report that the accident was partly caused by the "maximum profit, minumum operational expenses culture" within Alaskan Airlines. Now, every company is of course interested in making the most profit from the least expeses but there are some extreme, some plain normal companies.

However i do beleive that these kind of culprits are in the minority though, most airlines are surely run by smart enough individuals who dont make sacrifices to safety in order to profit economcially.

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 144): so maybe the o2 was working for the pax, but not the crew's?

That's what i think as well. I believe that it's very possible that the passengers saw all of the crew fainting and going out and (some of those pax) remained conscious for some more time (perhaps approx 20 minutes ‘till their oxygen ran out?) and realized that they were hopeless up there, running to their death. It freaks me out, I imagine what hell was up there, I am so sorry about the incident.

There are two events here, according to the info. we have.

1. The airplane required Oxygen all of a sudden. Wether it was a pressurization problem or not the fact is that the masks deployed.

2. Obviously the Oxigen available to the crew failed as there is a description of a pilot coming round the cabin "blue"

Anoxia can put you unconscious in 10 to 15 secs. at that altitude. My theory is that the plane depressurized requiring oxygen but it was not available to the crew. In all likelyhood the crew died and the oxygen masks exhausted their supply, so everybody died. I think these are the basic questions to start with in the investigation. At least it appears that nobody suffered. An Anoxia death is pretty swift and sweet, if you can call it that.

You can take a look at the location of the accident here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Helios-cras-area.jpg

So far I have only been reading the posts, with interest, but I do have an issue with all this. Don't get me wrong in any way as I really feel for all the victims and relatives!

My issue is that due to that the captain was not in his seat, the F/O should have been strapped in his seat belt, which was not the case.
Also, he didn't have his oxygen mask on! Why? To decompress goes fast, but not that fast!

Ok, don't start to flame me for this as this is just issues that came to my mind.

Aim for the sky!
Sudden

I just got a hold of this, swedish media reports that instead of a SMS being sent it was actually a phone called that was made:

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,685349,00.html

Sorry to you guys who dont know swedish but in short it says that a Sotiris Voutas had phone contact with a passenger onboard the plane right until it crashed. Reportedly he heard the crash when the plane hit the ground. "One of the pilots are dead, the other one is uncouncious. What are we going to do, everyone has fainted." This person apparently had said to Sotiris Voutas. he reportedly also said that it was freezing in the plane and that everyone was blue from the cold. It is said that he was the only one that was concious and could talk on board the aircraft.

This is surely interesting, however i do not know how much of this is sensationalist media play and how is accurate. It is another chunk of information in any case.

We are far away to find all answers regarding this strange and terrible accident.
I definitely won’t give my opinion on how all this happen.

However, I am very concerned about the fact that Helios crews and passengers have refused to board other company’s 737s today. I, of course, understand why passengers are reluctant to fly, but the crew is another story. Professionals have enough knowledge and experience to know that an accident can happen. Flying a similar aircraft on the same day shouldn’t therefore be a problem and safety should not be an issue. I say should because this should be the case if everything has always been done to guarantee safety of flights.

If the crew has refused to board, the only reason I can imagine is that they have something against their management. In other words, against the way safety of their lives is dealt by their management.

According to my experience dealing with air operations, there are 3 main priorities for an aviation company:

1. Safety
2. Customer Service
3. Finances

Depending on the company’s type of business, you can swap priority 2 with priority 3.

But the golden rule is always to keep safety as priority 1.

An aircraft should never depart if there’s a question on the safety of the flight.
Crew and maintenance staff should never receive any pressure from the management if they have an issue with the safe operation of their aircraft. And we all know it’s not always the case. The fear of being fired can result in wrong behavior. We are all human beings and nobody wants to loose the job. Sometimes, you just do it instead of saying no.

I don’t want to give any judgment on Helios management, it’s way too early to do so, but I don’t like the fact that crews have refuse to board. That doesn’t sound good.

I found this article on BBC News

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4151398.stm

EXTRACT

Tests on the bodies appear to confirm that most of the victims froze to death before the actual crash. (END OF EXTRACT)

It is terrible. My love to all families of lost ones.  

Will Anyone knows which company manufacture the pressurization system for Boeing 737?

[Edited 2005-08-15 13:44:17]

BBC Radio 4 News reporting 1 x FDR damaged beyond use so no data can be obtained. Also reporting Helios has grounded all its fleet.

I was reading in the tech/ops forum that the 737 has a horn which sounds if the cabin altitude climbs above 10,000 feet. It has been mentioned that this aircraft had a history of a/c and pressurisation problems. I have seen it happen where when a recurring annoying problem exists on an aircraft the crew sometimes will kill the circuit breaker supplying the audible alarm. In the situation where a problem with cabin pressure at high altitude is sometimes difficult to diagnose on the ground, the aircraft may have been carrying over the issue from station to station. Each time when maintenance thinks they have it solved, it re-occurs. Now the initial problem may have been a minor one but as is so often the case, a minor problem unsolved can turn into a major one. If this was the case here, the flight crew knowing that the aircraft had a pressurisation problem, which up to that point was minor, pulled the breaker knowing that at some time in the flight it would suddenly sound for 'no real reason'. Subsequently, the problem occured during the flight but this time the system failed completely and of course there would be no warning now because the horn is disabled. In that event, nobody on the aircraft would realise that there was an oxygen starvation problem until it was too late. The proverbial 'cry wolf' syndrome. Does any of this make any sense?

GU

The news about HELIOS AIRWAYS crew refusing to get aboard is true. Our Media here in Cyprus also mentioned this, it was a flight that was supposed to fly to Sofia but none of the crew (including Pilots) accepted to get onboard. Including some passengers who are scheduled to fly today and other days as well, with Helios, who want their money back and all. It’s a real mess and a really serious situation, as long as crew is involved as well, makes me wonder if they actually know anything more about the airline's safety procedures, especially now that the accident has happened, so this is why they don't want to get aboard. Who knows?

Helios Airways has leased today, 2 aircrafts; one from AUSTRIAN AIRLINES and one from EGYPT AIR so they can arrange their routes.

Quoting Philb (Reply 161): BBC Radio 4 News reporting 1 x FDR damaged beyond use so no data can be obtained. Also reporting Helios has grounded all its fleet.

Is it the only one aboard? Does the B737-300 have only one FDR?

Quoting Mika (Reply 152): Indeed. The problems with Alaskan was not speculation though, it says in the NTSB report that the accident was partly caused by the "maximum profit, minumum operational expenses culture" within Alaskan Airlines. Now, every company is of course interested in making the most profit from the least expeses but there are some extreme, some plain normal companies.

Mikka,
You are absolutely right. I saw recently the dokumentary on the Air Transat A330 which ran out of Fuel in midst of the Atlantic Ocean. The Canadian investigation came to the same result as in the Air Alaska case. The Accident had to be contributed to a large part to a management culture which put operational efficeiency over security. This is why they got the highest fine in Canadian aviation history. And they were lucky not to loose the plane. VERY lucky.

Quoting Sudden (Reply 156): My issue is that due to that the captain was not in his seat, the F/O should have been strapped in his seat belt, which was not the case. Also, he didn't have his oxygen mask on! Why? To decompress goes fast, but not that fast!

I thought that the co-pilot was wearing his O2-mask? That's was struck me most. If he did not...

Olafur

Quoting CV747 (Reply 165): Quoting Sudden (Reply 156): My issue is that due to that the captain was not in his seat, the F/O should have been strapped in his seat belt, which was not the case. Also, he didn't have his oxygen mask on! Why? To decompress goes fast, but not that fast! I thought that the co-pilot was wearing his O2-mask? That's was struck me most. If he did not... Olafur

The pilots of the F-16's clearly mentioned that the CO-pilot was in his seat, unconscious and bent forward on the aircraft's controls with his oxygen mask ON, while the Captain was not in the cockpit.

He was not wearing his mask, which I find very strange, to be honest.

Aim for the sky!
Sudden

I stand corrected! Thanks and sorry!

Still leaves it to why he were not wearing his belt.

Aim for the sky!
Sudden

The official list of the names of the passengers was broadcasted live today, around midday, from our Media, giving out name, surname, address, age and profession for each and everyone of the pax. The list included 22 children, not 48 as mentioned by some previously, aged between 4-16 years old.

Plus all the info i provide you with is mentioned in (but not only) our country's largest newspaper, www.phileleftheros.com (written in Greek.)

A word about the "reported" cellphone contact...

On these essentially line-of-sight links, communication can take place at hundred of miles (even thousands), in the same way as the ground-air VHF.
The higher one of the two ends of the link are, the farther it will work.

With a celular network the (main) limitation is introduced by the fact that the terrestrial antennas are (very) directional "in elevation", the intention being of course to cover land areas, not the airspace.

Compare it to a lighthouse, when the observer is at sea level he will stop seeing the lightbeam at "some" miles, but if the observer is at altitude he will be able to see the light as long as he remains within the path of the lightbeam.

So, will it work at FL340 (or any other FL) ?
yes, provided some conditions are met. (elevation/distance)

GSM coverage in the Aegean is not shitty, it is actually so good that the sale of sat-phones is non-existant.

I have my doubts concerning someone in a freezing environment being able to key in a text message of more than a very few letters though.

A bad month for Aviation with so many incidents lately. My condoloences go out to the familys, friends and loved ones of those onboard. May they RIP

I heard on the news on the radio that the F16s may have shot down the 737 but obviously this was not the case.

" The crew needs therefore to check before the flight that the system is filled and enough oxygen available. Departing with an empty system can be fatal"

Is it actually listed in every "pilot checklist" ?

Cheers. Kilavoud.

As always its another one of three: Air France (lucky escape, but a serious crash), the ATR-72 off Bari and now this. Is 'aircrashes always come in threes' a known saying anywere else out side of the UK? Safe time to fly imho.

Very sad for the parents, loved-ones, partners and siblings btw. Some of the media is being a tad too graphic of how this all happened. If it bleeds it leads though.

Boeing just got a BIGGER problem than Airbus.

Cheers.


Spike.

Quoting Mika (Reply 157): "One of the pilots are dead, the other one is uncouncious. What are we going to do, everyone has fainted." This person apparently had said to Sotiris Voutas. he reportedly also said that it was freezing in the plane and that everyone was blue from the cold. It is said that he was the only one that was concious and could talk on board the aircraft.

It is beyond imagination what those misfortunate people on board went through, especially the cousin of Sotiris Voutas who seems to be among the ones who remained conscious longer than the rest.

Quoting DeC (Reply 163): The news about HELIOS AIRWAYS crew refusing to get aboard is true.

Quoting DeC (Reply 163): makes me wonder if they actually know anything more about the airline's safety procedures, especially now that the accident has happened, so this is why they don't want to get aboard. Who knows?

With yesterday's news of crash and today's news, it might easily be the beginning of an end for Helios Airways, especially if cockpit crews know something more about it.

Anyway, whatever happens and no matter what caused the accident and how it will affect the future of the airline, nothing can bring back those 121 people back and nothing can erase the horror their loved ones had yesterday. They are rarely mentioned, but just imagine how they feel now.

It will be interesting to see the conclusion of crash investigation. It is definitely an unusual accident.

Quoting DeC (Reply 166): The pilots of the F-16's clearly mentioned that the CO-pilot was in his seat, unconscious and bent forward on the aircraft's controls with his oxygen mask ON, while the Captain was not in the cockpit.

No, there are conflicting reports about the co-pilot. The Cyprus press agency reports this detail about him:

"'The F-16 pilots saw that the co-pilot was on the floor, probably unconscious and the captain was not at his seat in the cockpit. Oxygen masks had dropped down from the places, and they also saw two persons in the cockpit who seemed to be trying to fly the plane,'' he said."

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 171): I heard on the news on the radio that the F16s may have shot down the 737 but obviously this was not the case.

There is nothing AFAIK to conclude they did not shot the plane...nor the opposite.

Was the plane fueled at the origin to fly both segments (LCA-ATH-PRG) or did it have to refuel in ATH ?

If it had to refuel, is the "real" schedule of events consistent with a running off fuel scenario ?

I have doubts about the interception as it is related so far, it says the F-16 made visual over Kea at 11:18 and at cruise FL, while the STA was 10:45, and over Kea VOR the plane should be in the middle of its descent or even lower.
Could it be that KEA was the last programmed waypoint but then, why would an a/c circle on its own ?

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 174): With yesterday's news of crash and today's news, it might easily be the beginning of an end for Helios Airways, especially if cockpit crews know something more about it.

Indeed, especially if you consider that 1) we here in Cyprus, are not used to such things like this, as they just didn’t happen in our land ‘till now 2) this is the worst crash in the history of aviation in both Greece and Cyprus and it’s the first time something like this happened to a Cypriot airline 3) there’s a lot of eponymous talks and statements all over the news about problems of the same kind on the same aircraft before 4) the crew is refusing to fly and the airline itself leased 2 aircrafts today (as I mentioned above, from AUSTRIA AIRLINES / EGYPT AIR) to do its routes, grounding their own planes, it’s easy to understand that through all the pain and despair of our people here and the national 3-day mourning period, the responsibility of the airline now falls very heavy on their shoulders.

[Edited 2005-08-15 15:22:05]

Quoting Iakobos (Reply 176): Could it be that KEA was the last programmed waypoint but then, why would an a/c circle on its own ?

That's what i asked as well before but didn't get a clear response. It is my view that when an aircraft on autopilot reaches a pre-programmed waypoint, it starts circling around 'till its disconnected or changes in its flight plan are made / new flight data is entered.

But I don’t know for sure, this is why I asked, to get a pilot’s view on it.

CX_Flyboy and DeC,

Regarding the start of descent here is my view on the subject:
- crew/pax fainted due lack of O2
- plane continues by itself following LNAV, eventually entering a holding pattern
- both engines quit due fuel starvation
Now the point I think was missing:
- without energy the AP pops out (as not powered by the battery bus)
- plane starts to descent "at wild" crashing into terrain.

Salz

I wonder if perhpas there was an explosive decompression that incapacitated the crew and passengers?? Not due to terrorism, but perhaps some type of skin or frame failure that resulted in the removal of the oxygen and radical temp changes so quickly......

From www.flyhelios.com two minutes ago:


Latest News
-- All Helios Airways flights are operating as scheduled.
-- A further press release relating to the crash is expected at 17:00 Cyprus time.

Is it possible that the 2 other people in the cockpit mentioned above were indeed trying to recover the plane albeit without success, hence the aircraft's descent before one would expect fuel to have run out? This possibility doesn't seem to have been discussed much.

Perhaps they themselves were significantly incapacitated but nevertheless tried to get the aircraft down to a safe height or even land, but perhaps not having the expertise couldn't manage any better than hitting the mountain?

DAYflyier,

Guess any structural problems with the plane would have been seen/reported by the F-16s, and, AFAIK, this was not the case...

A loss of cabin pressure, due problems with the A/C system, is a more plausible cause, IMHO.

Salz

Quoting Drinkstrolley (Reply 149): Cockpit of the aircraft View Large View Medium Photo © Marcel Moschner

If you look at this picture from reply 149, there is a conflicting altitude reading. The digital display says that its 23000 feet while the analog one reads 24000. Is that normal?

The reason I am asking this is because I am not sure if the altitude meter reading and oxygen level in the cabin actually trigger the oxygen generator to start pumping oxygen. If so, in this particular picture, it could cause a BIG problem. Then again, I could be totally wrong.

Can someone explain this a little better?

Thanks

OURBOEING

OurBoeing,

Quote: If you look at this picture from reply 149, there is a conflicting altitude reading. The digital display says that its 23000 feet while the analog one reads 24000. Is that normal?

Indeed it is very normal.
The digital display is the "altitude preselect window" on the MCP (Master Control Panel) from which the crew controls the plane through the autopilot.

In this case FL230 was selected while still at FL240, and a descent will be initiated either by selecting a negative rate of descent on the Vertical Speed window (to the right of the 23000, blanked) or by pressing FL CHG (FL Change) descent mode.

Cheers

Salz

Quoting Spike (Reply 173): Boeing just got a BIGGER problem than Airbus

Is this really a BOEING problem, or, if it turns out to be an oxygen and AC system malfunction, is it a maintenance problem at Helios Airways? As I gathered from the Forum, this same aircraft had a pressurization problem on 20th of Dec. 2004.

vlada

Quoting Spike (Reply 173): Boeing just got a BIGGER problem than Airbus.

Why? Has the 737 a record of presurisation problems? I have not heard of it.

Of course Boeing and the FAA denied the NTSB recommendations, that the 737 could have a design problem with the Rudder...until it was proven black on white and they could not longer close their eyes.

But in this case, I must defend Boeing! Afterall they make darn good aircraft.

Olafur

Heartfelt condolences are extended to the families, friends, and colleagues of those who were lost on board the Helios Airways 737.

Whether or not the FDR/CVCs give any information, I think we must pay our respects to the victims by finding out exactly what happened on this ill-fated plane. Bearing in mind that in the 1950s, without the technology available today, they established the cause of the Comet crashes, I believe that with detailed research they can find the answer to this crash and they must do so no matter how much it will cost.

The accident happened to a British owned aircraft, manufactured by an US company, on Greek soil and the aircraft was registered in Cyprus and presumably maintained to Cypriot regulations and standards. Which country's authorities will oversee the accident investigation?

Quoting S.P.A.S. (Reply 179): - without energy the AP pops out (as not powered by the battery bus) - plane starts to descent "at wild" crashing into terrain.

does the battery go out as well when the fuel ends?

Quoting BCAL (Reply 188): Which country's authorities will oversee the accident investigation?

Surely as it happened in Greek airspace, then it wil be led by Greek investigators. I suspect that the Cypriot authorities would also agree to the Greeks investigating.

The new press release from the HELIOS AIRWAYS:

http://www.flyhelios.com/


PRESS STATEMENT HELIOS AIRWAYS
Monday. 15th August 2005, 17:00

A Terrible Tragedy

Helios Airways Chairman, Mr Andreas Drakou said today that the accident to flight ZU522 was a terrible tragedy and that the company is providing immediate financial and other assistance to the families of all those affected by the appalling event.

‘Yesterday was a tragic day for all of us’ he said, ‘In an effort to alleviate, as much as possible, the pain and anguish of the families, Helios Airways, in co-operation with the Government, activated its emergency procedure and immediately arranged to set up a meeting centre for the families of the passengers at a Larnaca Hotel.’

He said that the Cyprus Government, in order to assist the whole process, relocated to the airport for this task. Managers and staff of Helios Airways were despatched to the airport to assist and give support to the families of the passengers and crew.

The company extended its apologies and deepest regrets to the families of the passengers and crew for the delay in announcing the names on the passenger list. The company had followed the International procedure and regulations established by the Cyprus Department of Civil Aviation.

Services Should Not Be Affected

Helios Airways confirmed today that its Scheduled services will continue to fly as programmed, despite the terrible tragedy that occurred yesterday.

Helios Airways is owned by the Cyprus based travel company Libra Holidays Group (LHG). LHG also owns the leading hotel chain DH Cyprotels, and the UK based tour operator Libra Holidays.

A spokesman for the group’s UK tour operation, Libra Holidays, which has about 3% of its flying with Helios, said today that it also did not expect any significant changes to customers holiday plans.

Approved Maintenance Programme

Mr Drakou said that the aircraft in question was a Boeing 737-300 manufactured in 1999 and entered the Helios fleet in April 2004. Prior to its departure the aircraft was duly inspected in line with standard procedures.

Helios Airways is co-operating fully with the technical investigation and has provided a technical team to assist the Greek Authorities. The investigating body will release any information regarding the cause of the accident.

NOTES

1. The airline will provide immediate financial assistance to families affected by the tragedy in line with the Montreal Convention and EC Regulations, Helios Airways will provide and initial payment of approximately 19,000 euros per passenger to help families with their immediate needs pending future compensation.

2. The company had followed the International procedure and regulations established by the Cyprus Department of Civil Aviation on passenger information. The personal data of passengers and crew was handed over to the authorities in due time. The lists contain the same exact data which is held by the airlines all over the world as per International regulations.

3. The aircraft was a Boeing 737-300 manufactured in 1999, was previously operated by Deutsche BA and entered the Helios fleet in April 2004. The aircraft followed the approved maintenance programme laid out by the Manufacturer and the Civil Aviation Department which is in line with JAR-OPS (European Joint Airworthiness Regulations) standards.

DeC,

After a while yes, but in any case the autopilot is not powered by the battery bus.

Cheers

Salz

Quoting S.P.A.S. (Reply 192):

I see. Where does the autopilot get power from then?

(sorry if this has been answered before, i don't remember now)

[Edited 2005-08-15 16:32:11]

Couldn't see this posted previously...but the crew/passenger list has been released.

For those who don't speak the language, it won't be of much use, but it does show that the Captain was of German origin and jugding by age, one could assume fairly experienced (Captain was listed as 50 and F/O as 40).

http://www.phileleftheros.com/main/main.asp?gid=334&id=348956

---

Quoting Spike (Reply 173): Boeing just got a BIGGER problem than Airbus.

What a load of bollocks - keep it real buddy. Compare the number of airframes built by both manufacturers and the years in operation and do the math. Better yet, keep those uneducated and useless comments to yourself at a time like this.

Here is an article in english about the text message and about the f-16 confirming 2 PAX in the flight deck.

"The situation was characterized renegade, meaning the aircraft was not under the control of the pilots," Roussopoulos told reporters. At a later stage, the F-16s saw two individuals in the cockpit seemingly trying to regain control of the airplane," Greek government spokesman Theodore Roussopoulos told Reuters. It was not known if the two people in the cockpit were passengers or crew members.

"The F-16s also saw oxygen masks down when they got close to the aircraft. The aircraft was making continuous right-hand turns to show it had lost radio contact," Roussopoulos said. "A passenger on the doomed plane said in an SMS text to his cousin in Athens: "The pilot has turned blue. Cousin farewell, we're freezing."

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=55d0e551-facc-4013-812e-37eee06406d0&

DeC,

Electrical power is generated by the engines (or the APU) through the CSD/VSCF generators on "Classic" 737s and through the IDGs on the "NG" 737s.

This energy is coupled to the system using "busses" DC, AC and Std-by busses, each of them responsible to provide energy to different hardware.

Please point your browser to this URL, it has a diagram showing "what is powered by who" on the 737: http://www.b737.org.uk/schemeelectxt.gif

Under normal circumstances, the battery should provide power for 30 minutes.

Hope it sheds some light..

Salz

[Edited 2005-08-15 16:44:30]

[Edited 2005-08-15 16:46:49]

How long has the plane be flying from departure time to crash ?

Both Larnaca and Athens are at GMT+2. And according to reply 77, departure time was at 09:00 am and crash time at 12:05 pm = flying time 3 hours and 5 minutes.

To fly from Larnaca to Athens ( Great Circle Mapper 932 km or 579 mi ), it should take, flying westwards about 1 hour 40 minutes. The difference of time, I mean about 1 hour 25 minutes (more or less), was it enough for the plane to run out of fuel ?

Cheers. Kilavoud.

Scheduled: 09:00 - 10:45
Actual: 09:07 - 12:04 (supposed)

that's 3 min short of 3 hours, instead of the 1h 45min + whatever reserves, provided the plane had only fuel for this segment of the flight.

The BBC web page has some interesting comments by a Ms. Eileen Hunt from Abingdon, Oxfordshire on the subject matter.

She states that in 1987 she on board a (Monarch Airlines) 737 bound for Chania in Crete when the aircraft lost cabin pressure/underwent sudden and total decompression somewhere over (mountainous) north Greece, and (to cut a longer story short) after a terrifying 'rapid descent' of about 30,000ft made an emergency landing at Athens airport.

It appears that the passengers didn't know what was going on at the time.

Ms. Hunt wonders whether the Helios 737 aircraft was the same one she was on all those years ago (which is not the case) although she questions whether they would keep aircraft in service that long as well as whether 737s have a particular problem with the mechanics of pressurisation (most unlikely in view of the 737s track record).

Quoting S.P.A.S. (Reply 196):

Thanks for the detailed explanation.